Softball Bats Revisited (1 Viewer)

[zamboni]

We don't shave or doctor bats on my team. Some guys on other teams may possibly do it, but it's not an uber-competitive/cutthroat league.

 

[Zow]

Thanks, guys.My league won't ban the Salvos as long as they are ASA approved.Seems consistent that people like both the Stealth and Salvo, but prefer the Stealth a bit more due to a bit better pop.Still, leaning towards the Salvo since I think I'll get better bat speed with it vs the Stealth, but would welcome any more thoughts.

well, you could always take a half-ounce out of the Stealth if you don't mind "cheating" a bit.

Thats the kind of #### that gets people hurt. Bush league if you have to do that. A GB of mine is finally recovering from a broken wrist, orbital and septum because of a shaved bat.

I was simply stating an option. I've never shaved a bat in my life. It's just commonplace though in lots of leagues.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Thanks, guys.My league won't ban the Salvos as long as they are ASA approved.Seems consistent that people like both the Stealth and Salvo, but prefer the Stealth a bit more due to a bit better pop.Still, leaning towards the Salvo since I think I'll get better bat speed with it vs the Stealth, but would welcome any more thoughts.

well, you could always take a half-ounce out of the Stealth if you don't mind "cheating" a bit.

Thats the kind of #### that gets people hurt. Bush league if you have to do that. A GB of mine is finally recovering from a broken wrist, orbital and septum because of a shaved bat.

I was simply stating an option. I've never shaved a bat in my life. It's just commonplace though in lots of leagues.

I would think a lawyer would be a little more careful about suggesting something that could ultimately get someone sued for all they're worth. A guy that played in a different league on the fields I used to play on lost a $1M lawsuit against him after caving in a pitcher's face with an illegal bat.

 

[Zow]

Thanks, guys.My league won't ban the Salvos as long as they are ASA approved.Seems consistent that people like both the Stealth and Salvo, but prefer the Stealth a bit more due to a bit better pop.Still, leaning towards the Salvo since I think I'll get better bat speed with it vs the Stealth, but would welcome any more thoughts.

well, you could always take a half-ounce out of the Stealth if you don't mind "cheating" a bit.

Thats the kind of #### that gets people hurt. Bush league if you have to do that. A GB of mine is finally recovering from a broken wrist, orbital and septum because of a shaved bat.

I was simply stating an option. I've never shaved a bat in my life. It's just commonplace though in lots of leagues.

I would think a lawyer would be a little more careful about suggesting something that could ultimately get someone sued for all they're worth. A guy that played in a different league on the fields I used to play on lost a $1M lawsuit against him after caving in a pitcher's face with an illegal bat.

I hear ya. Again, wasn't advocating he do it, but I play with plenty of people who do. Heck, in the majority of tourneys in the Vegas, Phoenix, SoCal areas it's pretty much expected.He could also talk a little off the top to reduce the end-load and I'd think it would have no effect on the mph of the bat. Any idea what the name of the case was you mentioned though? Be curious to read any resulting opinion on it.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Thanks, guys.My league won't ban the Salvos as long as they are ASA approved.Seems consistent that people like both the Stealth and Salvo, but prefer the Stealth a bit more due to a bit better pop.Still, leaning towards the Salvo since I think I'll get better bat speed with it vs the Stealth, but would welcome any more thoughts.

well, you could always take a half-ounce out of the Stealth if you don't mind "cheating" a bit.

Thats the kind of #### that gets people hurt. Bush league if you have to do that. A GB of mine is finally recovering from a broken wrist, orbital and septum because of a shaved bat.

I was simply stating an option. I've never shaved a bat in my life. It's just commonplace though in lots of leagues.

I would think a lawyer would be a little more careful about suggesting something that could ultimately get someone sued for all they're worth. A guy that played in a different league on the fields I used to play on lost a $1M lawsuit against him after caving in a pitcher's face with an illegal bat.

I hear ya. Again, wasn't advocating he do it, but I play with plenty of people who do. Heck, in the majority of tourneys in the Vegas, Phoenix, SoCal areas it's pretty much expected.He could also talk a little off the top to reduce the end-load and I'd think it would have no effect on the mph of the bat. Any idea what the name of the case was you mentioned though? Be curious to read any resulting opinion on it.

No idea what the case was and it's possible it was actually a settlement and didn't go through trial. It was in Canton, OH though about 11 or 12 years ago I think. And now that I think about it, it probably wasn't an altered bat, but just an illegal bat. Would have been before composites really came around. It's also possible the settlement could have been for less since that was just the number that the park officials gave us.I saw the injury though and watched as they pulled the ambulance onto the infield and loaded the guy up. No chance after that I'd even think about altering a bat in any way or allow anyone I played with to use one either.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Oh, and the latest rumors on the changing ASA standards are actually in the opposite direction of the original rumors. ASA will stick with the softer balls and actually eliminate the 98MPH standard. They will be going to a new standard that will most likely outperform the 98MPH standard. Thus, the new bats may actually be HOTTER than all current bats.

So, unless you need the bat this season, I would possibly think about waiting to see what the new standard is for sure before buy a bat that could be outdated in just a few months.

 

[Zow]

Thanks, guys.My league won't ban the Salvos as long as they are ASA approved.Seems consistent that people like both the Stealth and Salvo, but prefer the Stealth a bit more due to a bit better pop.Still, leaning towards the Salvo since I think I'll get better bat speed with it vs the Stealth, but would welcome any more thoughts.

well, you could always take a half-ounce out of the Stealth if you don't mind "cheating" a bit.

Thats the kind of #### that gets people hurt. Bush league if you have to do that. A GB of mine is finally recovering from a broken wrist, orbital and septum because of a shaved bat.

I was simply stating an option. I've never shaved a bat in my life. It's just commonplace though in lots of leagues.

I would think a lawyer would be a little more careful about suggesting something that could ultimately get someone sued for all they're worth. A guy that played in a different league on the fields I used to play on lost a $1M lawsuit against him after caving in a pitcher's face with an illegal bat.

I hear ya. Again, wasn't advocating he do it, but I play with plenty of people who do. Heck, in the majority of tourneys in the Vegas, Phoenix, SoCal areas it's pretty much expected.He could also talk a little off the top to reduce the end-load and I'd think it would have no effect on the mph of the bat. Any idea what the name of the case was you mentioned though? Be curious to read any resulting opinion on it.

No idea what the case was and it's possible it was actually a settlement and didn't go through trial. It was in Canton, OH though about 11 or 12 years ago I think. And now that I think about it, it probably wasn't an altered bat, but just an illegal bat. Would have been before composites really came around. It's also possible the settlement could have been for less since that was just the number that the park officials gave us.I saw the injury though and watched as they pulled the ambulance onto the infield and loaded the guy up. No chance after that I'd even think about altering a bat in any way or allow anyone I played with to use one either.

I think that may have been the UltraII case. Can't say I disagree with you on the safety of it all and again I never hit them, but I'd be teamless for tourneys if I refused to play in any league they were involved. In nationals a couple years ago I saw a runner on third take one to the face. Wound up in a coma and I don't know what happened after. They tested all bats prior to the tourney and policed very well so that was done with a legitimate ASA bat.

 

[Zow]

Oh, and the latest rumors on the changing ASA standards are actually in the opposite direction of the original rumors. ASA will stick with the softer balls and actually eliminate the 98MPH standard. They will be going to a new standard that will most likely outperform the 98MPH standard. Thus, the new bats may actually be HOTTER than all current bats.

So, unless you need the bat this season, I would possibly think about waiting to see what the new standard is for sure before buy a bat that could be outdated in just a few months.

I hit these balls a couple weeks ago. Big difference and I think, if true, this is a good move by ASA. With these balls the bat won't matter.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Oh, and the latest rumors on the changing ASA standards are actually in the opposite direction of the original rumors. ASA will stick with the softer balls and actually eliminate the 98MPH standard. They will be going to a new standard that will most likely outperform the 98MPH standard. Thus, the new bats may actually be HOTTER than all current bats.

So, unless you need the bat this season, I would possibly think about waiting to see what the new standard is for sure before buy a bat that could be outdated in just a few months.

I hit these balls a couple weeks ago. Big difference and I think, if true, this is a good move by ASA. With these balls the bat won't matter.

Yup, and it's way cheaper to replace balls then to be changing bat standards and banning a bunch if bats.

 

[Samuel L Bronkowitz]

Oh, and the latest rumors on the changing ASA standards are actually in the opposite direction of the original rumors. ASA will stick with the softer balls and actually eliminate the 98MPH standard. They will be going to a new standard that will most likely outperform the 98MPH standard. Thus, the new bats may actually be HOTTER than all current bats.

So, unless you need the bat this season, I would possibly think about waiting to see what the new standard is for sure before buy a bat that could be outdated in just a few months.

I hit these balls a couple weeks ago. Big difference and I think, if true, this is a good move by ASA. With these balls the bat won't matter.

Yup, and it's way cheaper to replace balls then to be changing bat standards and banning a bunch if bats.

This has to be the 52 cor ball that we hit. It still doesn't stop people from shaving, rolling etc. I started back in '98 playing with a 40 cor ball but bats were weak, single wall. I'd be fine going back to a 40 or 42 cor ball and using wood bats or sticks of steel/aluminum. When 5'6" guys are hitting 350' bombs, there's something wrong with the equipment. You can change the ball all you want, the bat companies are going to skirt the issue and sell what makes them money.Instead of homerun limits, lets get back to actual baseball/softball. 37-33 games aren't fun with 16 homeruns. Lets get back to 18-16 games with good basehits, gappers and the occasional homerun.

And get off my lawn!!!

 

[goldenchild]

Thanks, guys.

My league won't ban the Salvos as long as they are ASA approved.

Seems consistent that people like both the Stealth and Salvo, but prefer the Stealth a bit more due to a bit better pop.

Still, leaning towards the Salvo since I think I'll get better bat speed with it vs the Stealth, but would welcome any more thoughts.

well, you could always take a half-ounce out of the Stealth if you don't mind "cheating" a bit.

Thats the kind of #### that gets people hurt. Bush league if you have to do that. A GB of mine is finally recovering from a broken wrist, orbital and septum because of a shaved bat.

I was simply stating an option. I've never shaved a bat in my life. It's just commonplace though in lots of leagues.

I would think a lawyer would be a little more careful about suggesting something that could ultimately get someone sued for all they're worth. A guy that played in a different league on the fields I used to play on lost a $1M lawsuit against him after caving in a pitcher's face with an illegal bat.

I hear ya. Again, wasn't advocating he do it, but I play with plenty of people who do. Heck, in the majority of tourneys in the Vegas, Phoenix, SoCal areas it's pretty much expected.He could also talk a little off the top to reduce the end-load and I'd think it would have no effect on the mph of the bat.

Any idea what the name of the case was you mentioned though? Be curious to read any resulting opinion on it.

Okay, I'm a relatively new softball player here and I have no idea what a shaved bat is... so I googled shaved bat and this is one of the first videos that popped up.
WTF is going on with the big guy and his editorials?

Just want to be clear that I'm not having an issue with religion... it's more like WTF does it have to do with softball and shaved bats?

 

[Zow]

Got a buddy selling a bass mandigo if anyone is interested.

Also I have playoffs tonight for a league and I'm being told we are using the new softer balls. If that's true, ill ask about a permanent switch since the league follows asa strictly and I'll update tomorrow.

 

[Zow]

A shaved bat is when the end cap is removed and bits of the inner core of the barrel are "shaved" out. While this reduces the durability of the bat and actually reduces the sweet spot, it creates a greater trampoline effect and balls come off the bat faster. It also makes the bat lighter and commonly guys will take about ab ounce of weight out of the bat by shaving it. It also works that the more taken out the harder the ball can be hit but easier it will be for it to break.

It's really a pretty big issue for competitive softball. It's kinda like steroids in that guys hit the ball harder and farther than they normally should. Like steroids, there is a way to test for a shaved bat but the machines are expensive and will sometimes get a false positive for a bat that is simply just broken in well. This then brings up the tricky issue of how a tourney organizer should police and deal with a shaved bat. Naturally, the harder the hit the greater odds for injury (I got hit by a line drive in the shoulder while on second base by a guy on my own team using a shaved synergy - hit so hard I couldn't even react and it hurt like hell). A lot of tourneys will severely limit how many home runs can be hit to deter the use of shaves bats. Some even make it an offensive ejection if you hit one.

Personally, I don't care if shaved bats are used or not. Im an oppo singles hitter so a shaved bats doesn't do much for me and generally the home run limitations are strict enough that they are easily reached by guys who don't need shaved bats. I think the biggest advantage to a shaved bat is that it helps hit harder ground balls and can spike averages, but frankly most people unwisely IMO still try to hit gaps instead of pounding the ball into the ground so that potential advantage isn't often taken. I may also be biased bc where I play (az, las Vegas, socal) they're just so common it doesn't seem like a big deal to me and I kind of enjoy taking pride in the fact I don't use them.

 

[Zow]

Hit those new 42 core balls last night. They sound the same but die pretty quickly off the bat. We hit some balls that should have gone about 315 but only went about 290. I hit a couple of line drives at the first baseman that I didn't expect him to be able to react in time to bit both times he was able to get a glove on it. A couple of guys hit a shaved bat and that didn't seem to make much of a difference.

Definitely seems to render the bats quality to be less important so of that's the goal those balls are the way to go. I talked to some asa guys there and they weren't sure if the new balls were a permanent move.

 

[goldenchild]

A shaved bat is when the end cap is removed and bits of the inner core of the barrel are "shaved" out. While this reduces the durability of the bat and actually reduces the sweet spot, it creates a greater trampoline effect and balls come off the bat faster. It also makes the bat lighter and commonly guys will take about ab ounce of weight out of the bat by shaving it. It also works that the more taken out the harder the ball can be hit but easier it will be for it to break. It's really a pretty big issue for competitive softball. It's kinda like steroids in that guys hit the ball harder and farther than they normally should. Like steroids, there is a way to test for a shaved bat but the machines are expensive and will sometimes get a false positive for a bat that is simply just broken in well. This then brings up the tricky issue of how a tourney organizer should police and deal with a shaved bat. Naturally, the harder the hit the greater odds for injury (I got hit by a line drive in the shoulder while on second base by a guy on my own team using a shaved synergy - hit so hard I couldn't even react and it hurt like hell). A lot of tourneys will severely limit how many home runs can be hit to deter the use of shaves bats. Some even make it an offensive ejection if you hit one. Personally, I don't care if shaved bats are used or not. Im an oppo singles hitter so a shaved bats doesn't do much for me and generally the home run limitations are strict enough that they are easily reached by guys who don't need shaved bats. I think the biggest advantage to a shaved bat is that it helps hit harder ground balls and can spike averages, but frankly most people unwisely IMO still try to hit gaps instead of pounding the ball into the ground so that potential advantage isn't often taken. I may also be biased bc where I play (az, las Vegas, socal) they're just so common it doesn't seem like a big deal to me and I kind of enjoy taking pride in the fact I don't use them.

Thanks for the rundown.I'm fairly new to softball, but I played baseball growing up to high school. I'm pretty much only playing the co-ed league here at my work which runs from May to August every year. I'm debating on whether I should buy my own bat as the bats they provide us are either shot or they never had any pop to begin with. Honestly, I don't even know what "pop" is when it comes to softball. Can someone suggest a bat for someone like me that is a casual player, but would like to hit the ball very far? Our league does not check bats for shaving or anything like that but I would prefer to get something that is legal in all/most leagues just in case I decide to join a league outside of work.

 

[jon_mx]

I would hope no one would even consider using a shaved bat in a co-ed league.

 

[zamboni]

I would hope no one would even consider using a shaved bat in a co-ed league.

:softball:

 

[goldenchild]

I would hope no one would even consider using a shaved bat in a co-ed league.

:softball:

 

[Megla]

Hit those new 42 core balls last night. They sound the same but die pretty quickly off the bat. We hit some balls that should have gone about 315 but only went about 290. I hit a couple of line drives at the first baseman that I didn't expect him to be able to react in time to bit both times he was able to get a glove on it. A couple of guys hit a shaved bat and that didn't seem to make much of a difference. Definitely seems to render the bats quality to be less important so of that's the goal those balls are the way to go. I talked to some asa guys there and they weren't sure if the new balls were a permanent move.

http://floridasoftball.com/forum/showthread.php?11071-Let-s-beat-this-dead-horse-one-more-time.LOL

 

[Megla]

Thanks, guys.

My league won't ban the Salvos as long as they are ASA approved.

Seems consistent that people like both the Stealth and Salvo, but prefer the Stealth a bit more due to a bit better pop.

Still, leaning towards the Salvo since I think I'll get better bat speed with it vs the Stealth, but would welcome any more thoughts.

well, you could always take a half-ounce out of the Stealth if you don't mind "cheating" a bit.

Thats the kind of #### that gets people hurt. Bush league if you have to do that. A GB of mine is finally recovering from a broken wrist, orbital and septum because of a shaved bat.

I was simply stating an option. I've never shaved a bat in my life. It's just commonplace though in lots of leagues.

I would think a lawyer would be a little more careful about suggesting something that could ultimately get someone sued for all they're worth. A guy that played in a different league on the fields I used to play on lost a $1M lawsuit against him after caving in a pitcher's face with an illegal bat.

I hear ya. Again, wasn't advocating he do it, but I play with plenty of people who do. Heck, in the majority of tourneys in the Vegas, Phoenix, SoCal areas it's pretty much expected.He could also talk a little off the top to reduce the end-load and I'd think it would have no effect on the mph of the bat.

Any idea what the name of the case was you mentioned though? Be curious to read any resulting opinion on it.

Okay, I'm a relatively new softball player here and I have no idea what a shaved bat is... so I googled shaved bat and this is one of the first videos that popped up.

This should help

http://floridasoftball.com/forum/showthread.php?10726-Confiscated-Bat-from-ISA-Tournament-at-Loyce-Harpe-Park

 

[Zow]

So my glove broke in a tournament last week. Up until now, I had been using my old baseball glove (a Rawlings Heritage) and have never actually bought a "softball" glove. Looking online now... anyone got some good suggestions?

 

[Garrett]

I never thought I would miss Peens.

 

[GroveDiesel]

So the current scuttlebutt on the new ASA standards is that the new changes will actually end up allowing HOTTER bats than what's currently available and that none of the old bats will end up being ruled illegal.

The change that they're making to the testing is lowering the bat speed from 85 to 80MPH, they're going to use the .52 300 ball for testing, and they're going to slightly raise the MPH from 98 to something above that. Probably 100 would be my guess.

The reasoning appears to be that the new ball takes care of most of the safety issues. ASA claims that it still flies as far, but that the compression difference means that it causes less damage on impact with a person. Also, the new ball is supposed to be really hard on shaved bats. So the ball itself will help take illegal bats out of the equation.

The rumor is that the new Easton line is actually under the new standard and is supposed to absolutely rip the new balls.

The official announcement on the new standard will be made in October.

 

[zamboni]

Good info, GD. Thanks.

 

[GroveDiesel]

I should note that I don't know any of this firsthand. My info is from guys on the Softballfans forums that seem reliable and have some reason to actually have heard this info from ASA officials or manufacturers.

But it's possible that they're still wrong/lying as well.

But I thought I'd followup with the current "consensus" on what's coming since I brought up the rule change in the first place.

 

[Samuel L Bronkowitz]

So the current scuttlebutt on the new ASA standards is that the new changes will actually end up allowing HOTTER bats than what's currently available and that none of the old bats will end up being ruled illegal.The change that they're making to the testing is lowering the bat speed from 85 to 80MPH, they're going to use the .52 300 ball for testing, and they're going to slightly raise the MPH from 98 to something above that. Probably 100 would be my guess. The reasoning appears to be that the new ball takes care of most of the safety issues. ASA claims that it still flies as far, but that the compression difference means that it causes less damage on impact with a person. Also, the new ball is supposed to be really hard on shaved bats. So the ball itself will help take illegal bats out of the equation. The rumor is that the new Easton line is actually under the new standard and is supposed to absolutely rip the new balls. The official announcement on the new standard will be made in October.

We talked about this a bit last night. I've seen more injuries with the 300 compression .52 cor ball this year than I have in a long time. Perhaps its an anomaly or more people are using shaved/rolled bats but I don't think this solves anything. Pressure from the manufacturers is what drives this.A GB of mine is sponsored by DeMarini and they have a line coming out to destroy these balls as well (he called one of the new ones "The Flipper" ). According to him they are already pre-rolled in a way but will still pass this test. What it does to the life of the bat is yet to be seen though.

 

[GroveDiesel]

So the current scuttlebutt on the new ASA standards is that the new changes will actually end up allowing HOTTER bats than what's currently available and that none of the old bats will end up being ruled illegal.The change that they're making to the testing is lowering the bat speed from 85 to 80MPH, they're going to use the .52 300 ball for testing, and they're going to slightly raise the MPH from 98 to something above that. Probably 100 would be my guess. The reasoning appears to be that the new ball takes care of most of the safety issues. ASA claims that it still flies as far, but that the compression difference means that it causes less damage on impact with a person. Also, the new ball is supposed to be really hard on shaved bats. So the ball itself will help take illegal bats out of the equation. The rumor is that the new Easton line is actually under the new standard and is supposed to absolutely rip the new balls. The official announcement on the new standard will be made in October.

We talked about this a bit last night. I've seen more injuries with the 300 compression .52 cor ball this year than I have in a long time. Perhaps its an anomaly or more people are using shaved/rolled bats but I don't think this solves anything. Pressure from the manufacturers is what drives this.A GB of mine is sponsored by DeMarini and they have a line coming out to destroy these balls as well (he called one of the new ones "The Flipper" ). According to him they are already pre-rolled in a way but will still pass this test. What it does to the life of the bat is yet to be seen though.

Interesting. I have read that some people think the .52 300 balls bounce strange and it's leading to infielders taking more balls off the body.And the talk does seem to indicate that the new bats aren't as durable. Although some of that seems to be some people hitting the old balls with the new bats.I was worried that my Freak98 and Recoil would be illegal. Now I'm worried they'll just be obsolete. Probably will try to sell one or both this offseason.The Louisville Slugger Z1000 and newest Easton Synergy and Stealth are all said to kill the new ball right out of the wrapper.

 

[Northern Voice]

Anyone in here play coed and have decent recommendations for the girls bats? Our metal bats are mostly/all of the single wall older variety and mostly old men's league bats as well, so the lightest is 25 oz and the majority are 26 or 28 oz. We also have a 32/22 newer Easton (technically fastball bat) bought specifically because some of the girls wanted a lighter one.

Thoughts on ideal bat weight for women, mostly in their late 20s/early 30s? Reading online, it seems like based on height/weight, the 32/22 is more in line with what they should be using than the 34/26, but I question whether that's enough weight on the bat to give it a good shot... on the other hand... bat speed.

Our league is very restrictive with the men's bats. They must be 2 1/4" barrel, 100% wood, no bamboo or composite wood and must say "official softball" on the barrel... basically we're using $29 Ash Louisville sluggers for the most part. It sure does separate the guys who know how to hit from the sotball 69 guys who are two true outcome (350 foot bomb or 50 ft pop up) with the high end multi wall bats.

 

[Zow]

Anyone in here play coed and have decent recommendations for the girls bats? Our metal bats are mostly/all of the single wall older variety and mostly old men's league bats as well, so the lightest is 25 oz and the majority are 26 or 28 oz. We also have a 32/22 newer Easton (technically fastball bat) bought specifically because some of the girls wanted a lighter one.

Thoughts on ideal bat weight for women, mostly in their late 20s/early 30s? Reading online, it seems like based on height/weight, the 32/22 is more in line with what they should be using than the 34/26, but I question whether that's enough weight on the bat to give it a good shot... on the other hand... bat speed.

Our league is very restrictive with the men's bats. They must be 2 1/4" barrel, 100% wood, no bamboo or composite wood and must say "official softball" on the barrel... basically we're using $29 Ash Louisville sluggers for the most part. It sure does separate the guys who know how to hit from the sotball 69 guys who are two true outcome (350 foot bomb or 50 ft pop up) with the high end multi wall bats.

Given that the majority of girl aren't going to be able to beat the outfielders, forget the thought of a bat giving them distance. Girls get on base by grounders and line drives. Accordingly, IMO no way should they be swinging anything heavier than a 33/25.

It's been a couple years since I played seriously competitive coed, but I recall the Demarini Phenix was was very nice girl's bat along with the Easton R-3(?or cv22 or some coded name like that?) or whatever their top end fast pitch bat is called.

 

[jon_mx]

I know a guy who swings a 23 oz bat and smacks the hell out of the ball. Bat speed is critical. No way should most girls be swinging a 26 oz bat.

 

[Northern Voice]

Thanks guys, that was my thought when I bought the 32/22 but had a couple whiny #####es making me rethink it.