Soldiers Told to Ignore Sexual Abuse of Boys by Afghan Allies (1 Viewer)

[Clifford]

No one is saying or thinks that we can change the culture. This country has expelled world powers since Alexander the Great and will continue to do so and we will be no different. But if we are going to be there (debate that all you want) then we need to impose our culture and values on our bases at the very least, and not punish our soldiers for acting in good conscience and in accordance with international human rights.

 

[FUBAR]

http://www.militarytimes.com/story/military/pentagon/2015/09/21/buchanan-nyt-sex-abuse/72567638/

 

[Clifford]

"If the abuse involves Afghans, a report shall be forwarded to me through operations channels, copied to the Staff Judge Advocate, so that the Government of the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan can be advised and requested to take action.

"I have personally spoken with [Afghan] President [Ashraf] Ghani on this issue and he made it clear to me that the Afghan government will not tolerate the abuse of its children, or any of its people, and will thoroughly investigate all allegations and administer justice appropriately," Campbell said.

Somehow this does not make me think they are authorizing their men to do anything to actually stop the rape.

 

[FUBAR]

I thought a US Military base was kind of like an embassy, US Soil in a foreign land.

Do us all a favor: stop thinking

Try less coffee. No need to be ugly some folks don't know how these things work.

Did you read the rest of his post? The whole thing is utter nonsense.

Man what the ever living #### is your problem? I have never seen you be anything but a relentless troll on these boards. Since you seem to have read the status of forces agreement with Afghanistan that defines the status of bases and troops why don't you fill us in?

clearly I'm not DD but I did stay at a Holiday Inn...

If an American Soldier has reason to believe an Afghan soldier has committed a crime, they report to their chain of command and at a high enough level (usually battalion, sometimes higher) the US commander discusses it with the Afghan commander and the Afghan system processes the allegation. The US commanders have no authority to prosecute Afghans. Sometimes the DoS gets involved, but if only soldiers are involved, it's usually a chain of command issue. We've had some success encouraging the Afghan forces to discipline their soldiers but it doesn't always go as we think it should. Sometimes it's harsher, sometimes nothing happens. If this has been a systemic issue, the big wigs would have to get involved.

Navy Capt. Jeff Davis, a DoD spokesman, said at a Pentagon briefing Monday that the U.S. military finds the widespread reports of pedophilia among Afghan security forces to be "absolutely abhorrent,” but added that “it is fundamentally an Afghan law enforcement matter."

"Those are reports that are given over to the Afghan government,” Davis said. "We monitor these atrocities closely, and we’ve repeatedly stood up for those who’ve suffered exploitation and denial of basic human freedoms.

“We work closely with the Afghan government and with their civil society and other organizations in Afghanistan to put an end to horrific practices like this. And we also incorporate human rights training into our training programs” with the Afghan security forces, Davis said.

 

[NCCommish]

http://www.militarytimes.com/story/military/pentagon/2015/09/21/buchanan-nyt-sex-abuse/72567638/

Lots of CYA. I tend to believe the soldiers over the generals.

 

[FUBAR]

Somehow this does not make me think they are authorizing their men to do anything to actually stop the rape.

you're right. The policy makers don't want to assume the risk of starting an incident over a misunderstanding, or even an incident assuming the Soldier is exactly right.

 

[NCCommish]

I thought a US Military base was kind of like an embassy, US Soil in a foreign land.

Do us all a favor: stop thinking

Try less coffee. No need to be ugly some folks don't know how these things work.

Did you read the rest of his post? The whole thing is utter nonsense.

Man what the ever living #### is your problem? I have never seen you be anything but a relentless troll on these boards. Since you seem to have read the status of forces agreement with Afghanistan that defines the status of bases and troops why don't you fill us in?

clearly I'm not DD but I did stay at a Holiday Inn...

If an American Soldier has reason to believe an Afghan soldier has committed a crime, they report to their chain of command and at a high enough level (usually battalion, sometimes higher) the US commander discusses it with the Afghan commander and the Afghan system processes the allegation. The US commanders have no authority to prosecute Afghans. Sometimes the DoS gets involved, but if only soldiers are involved, it's usually a chain of command issue. We've had some success encouraging the Afghan forces to discipline their soldiers but it doesn't always go as we think it should. Sometimes it's harsher, sometimes nothing happens. If this has been a systemic issue, the big wigs would have to get involved.

Navy Capt. Jeff Davis, a DoD spokesman, said at a Pentagon briefing Monday that the U.S. military finds the widespread reports of pedophilia among Afghan security forces to be "absolutely abhorrent, but added that it is fundamentally an Afghan law enforcement matter."

"Those are reports that are given over to the Afghan government, Davis said. "We monitor these atrocities closely, and weve repeatedly stood up for those whove suffered exploitation and denial of basic human freedoms.

We work closely with the Afghan government and with their civil society and other organizations in Afghanistan to put an end to horrific practices like this. And we also incorporate human rights training into our training programs with the Afghan security forces, Davis said.

When it happens on our base and we punish our guys over it its an American problem and not a kick the can down the road problem.

 

[FUBAR]

http://www.militarytimes.com/story/military/pentagon/2015/09/21/buchanan-nyt-sex-abuse/72567638/

Lots of CYA. I tend to believe the soldiers over the generals.

Sure. just remember perceptions don't always match reality. It's entirely possible that Soldiers think nothing is being done while the system is working. It's also possible the Afghans aren't prosecuting their perverts despite the Americans encouraging them to do so.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

FYI, the Army is 100% refuting this story.

//I won't comment further as I work for them currently

From an outsider's perspective, it seems like an odd thing to make up.

I'm withholding judgment for now, but it's easy to imagine a case where child sexual abuse was taking place, possibly on a disturbingly large scale, without the tacit approval of anybody on the bases where it occurred. The native culture of Afghanistan is, bluntly, ####. Even if they clean it a little when they're on US bases, you're still dealing with people whose moral code was abandoned in the west half a millennium ago. The US isn't there to build democracy (which wouldn't produce anything we would like, anyway) or change the culture -- the military is there mainly to kill off a bunch of Taliban and hopefully keep the slightly-less-awful people in charge. Nothing wrong with that, and no need to pretend otherwise.

 

[NCCommish]

FYI, the Army is 100% refuting this story.

//I won't comment further as I work for them currently

From an outsider's perspective, it seems like an odd thing to make up.

I'm withholding judgment for now, but it's easy to imagine a case where child sexual abuse was taking place, possibly on a disturbingly large scale, without the tacit approval of anybody on the bases where it occurred. The native culture of Afghanistan is, bluntly, ####. Even if they clean it a little when they're on US bases, you're still dealing with people whose moral code was abandoned in the west half a millennium ago. The US isn't there to build democracy (which wouldn't produce anything we would like, anyway) or change the culture -- the military is there mainly to kill off a bunch of Taliban and hopefully keep the slightly-less-awful people in charge. Nothing wrong with that, and no need to pretend otherwise.

Not trying to change their culture. Can't be done by us. But we can control what happens on our bases and I think we damn well should. It seems fairly obvious that little to nothing is being done by reporting it to the Afghan government. And when it happens on our base and we do nothing that looks like tacit approval. Sorry it just does.

We are supposed to be the ones who eschew expedience for doing what's right. We are supposed to be a symbol of justice. I guess I expect us to live up to those high standards. Maybe I'm just an idiot but that's the standard I wanted to live up to when I served.

 

[FUBAR]

I thought a US Military base was kind of like an embassy, US Soil in a foreign land.

Do us all a favor: stop thinking

Try less coffee. No need to be ugly some folks don't know how these things work.

Did you read the rest of his post? The whole thing is utter nonsense.

Man what the ever living #### is your problem? I have never seen you be anything but a relentless troll on these boards. Since you seem to have read the status of forces agreement with Afghanistan that defines the status of bases and troops why don't you fill us in?

clearly I'm not DD but I did stay at a Holiday Inn...

If an American Soldier has reason to believe an Afghan soldier has committed a crime, they report to their chain of command and at a high enough level (usually battalion, sometimes higher) the US commander discusses it with the Afghan commander and the Afghan system processes the allegation. The US commanders have no authority to prosecute Afghans. Sometimes the DoS gets involved, but if only soldiers are involved, it's usually a chain of command issue. We've had some success encouraging the Afghan forces to discipline their soldiers but it doesn't always go as we think it should. Sometimes it's harsher, sometimes nothing happens. If this has been a systemic issue, the big wigs would have to get involved.

Navy Capt. Jeff Davis, a DoD spokesman, said at a Pentagon briefing Monday that the U.S. military finds the widespread reports of pedophilia among Afghan security forces to be "absolutely abhorrent, but added that it is fundamentally an Afghan law enforcement matter."

"Those are reports that are given over to the Afghan government, Davis said. "We monitor these atrocities closely, and weve repeatedly stood up for those whove suffered exploitation and denial of basic human freedoms.

We work closely with the Afghan government and with their civil society and other organizations in Afghanistan to put an end to horrific practices like this. And we also incorporate human rights training into our training programs with the Afghan security forces, Davis said.

When it happens on our base and we punish our guys over it its an American problem and not a kick the can down the road problem.

right. if our guys (or gals) commit crimes, we prosecute. These are not our guys.

 

[NCCommish]

I thought a US Military base was kind of like an embassy, US Soil in a foreign land.

Do us all a favor: stop thinking

Try less coffee. No need to be ugly some folks don't know how these things work.

Did you read the rest of his post? The whole thing is utter nonsense.

Man what the ever living #### is your problem? I have never seen you be anything but a relentless troll on these boards. Since you seem to have read the status of forces agreement with Afghanistan that defines the status of bases and troops why don't you fill us in?

clearly I'm not DD but I did stay at a Holiday Inn...

If an American Soldier has reason to believe an Afghan soldier has committed a crime, they report to their chain of command and at a high enough level (usually battalion, sometimes higher) the US commander discusses it with the Afghan commander and the Afghan system processes the allegation. The US commanders have no authority to prosecute Afghans. Sometimes the DoS gets involved, but if only soldiers are involved, it's usually a chain of command issue. We've had some success encouraging the Afghan forces to discipline their soldiers but it doesn't always go as we think it should. Sometimes it's harsher, sometimes nothing happens. If this has been a systemic issue, the big wigs would have to get involved.

Navy Capt. Jeff Davis, a DoD spokesman, said at a Pentagon briefing Monday that the U.S. military finds the widespread reports of pedophilia among Afghan security forces to be "absolutely abhorrent, but added that it is fundamentally an Afghan law enforcement matter."

"Those are reports that are given over to the Afghan government, Davis said. "We monitor these atrocities closely, and weve repeatedly stood up for those whove suffered exploitation and denial of basic human freedoms.

We work closely with the Afghan government and with their civil society and other organizations in Afghanistan to put an end to horrific practices like this. And we also incorporate human rights training into our training programs with the Afghan security forces, Davis said.

When it happens on our base and we punish our guys over it its an American problem and not a kick the can down the road problem.

right. if our guys (or gals) commit crimes, we prosecute. These are not our guys.

Our guys are being punished for reporting and intervening.

 

[Da Guru]

That story disgusts me to no end. Here we are discussing at how a school reacted to a kid with a clock that looked like a bomb when in reality nobody was hurt while thousands of kids lives are being ruined. Really puts things in perspective.

 

[The Big Guy]

There is no way any of this should be condoned or ignored on one of our based.

Is this some new rule like Bill Maher would say? If you didn't serve then you are not allowed an opinion on our military and their actions? Seems awfully un-American to me.

 

[FUBAR]

Our guys are being punished for reporting and intervening.

allegedly. seems they might also be punished for assault.

 

[NCCommish]

Our guys are being punished for reporting and intervening.

allegedly. seems they might also be punished for assault.

If a mom comes to me beat up for trying to get her kid back from some ####### that raped her son I might be up for a lot more than that.

 

[dschuler]

I don't think the Army is denying this at all. I think they are saying they didn't have a written guideline to handle this situation. Here are a few links that pertain to an army soldier that was kicked out for standing up to this.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/08/21/army-kicking-out-decorated-green-beret-who-stood-up-for-afghan-rape-victim/

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/09/21/world/asia/us-soldiers-told-to-ignore-afghan-allies-abuse-of-boys.html?referrer=&_r=0

http://m.townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2015/09/23/army-to-green-beret-punished-for-defending-boy-from-an-afghan-rapist-nope-you-cant-come-back-n2055822

 

[Doctor Detroit]

If a Yahoo employee dirty ##### the company birthday cake, should we blame the CEO?

There are 2 million people in uniform and another 600k civilians in the DoD. You can't blame the Commander in Chief for a soldier stealing a sandwich from the Shoppette. Well maybe you can, but since you never served your opinion means #### anyway.

Hey NCC>I'll ease up on the coffee now, just for you buddy.

Doc, you're off on this one. If the CinC told Soldiers to look the other way, that's a lot different than one Soldier committing a crime. Funny that you would associate child rape with stealing a sandwich. Does my opinion count?

So basically you are saying that if some Army Captain told a PFC to ignore it is the President's fault? Who said the CinC told them to look the other way?

Also the Shoppette example was for reference to the sheer volume of troops that fall under the president. I did not compare that to raping children and to say that I did makes you no better than meatwads.

 

[FUBAR]

Our guys are being punished for reporting and intervening.

allegedly. seems they might also be punished for assault.

If a mom comes to me beat up for trying to get her kid back from some ####### that raped her son I might be up for a lot more than that.

that's a hard sentence to follow, but if I am reading right, you're advocating vigilantism. cool.

 

[beer 30]

Can't even imagine the toll this must have taken on our soldiers. Goes to show any actions aren't so black and white. With this many shades of gray probably better to let the country burn itself to the ground from afar.

We tried that once around '92...didn't turn out so hot.

 

[FUBAR]

If a Yahoo employee dirty ##### the company birthday cake, should we blame the CEO?

There are 2 million people in uniform and another 600k civilians in the DoD. You can't blame the Commander in Chief for a soldier stealing a sandwich from the Shoppette. Well maybe you can, but since you never served your opinion means #### anyway.

Hey NCC>I'll ease up on the coffee now, just for you buddy.

Doc, you're off on this one. If the CinC told Soldiers to look the other way, that's a lot different than one Soldier committing a crime. Funny that you would associate child rape with stealing a sandwich. Does my opinion count?

So basically you are saying that if some Army Captain told a PFC to ignore it is the President's fault? Who said the CinC told them to look the other way?

Also the Shoppette example was for reference to the sheer volume of troops that fall under the president. I did not compare that to raping children and to say that I did makes you no better than meatwads.

no, this seems a lot bigger than one Captain.

You're having a rough dad Doc. go drink a zima and relax.

 

[Quez]

After we win the war in Afghanistan we can try and crack down on all of the domestic problems. At this rate the war will be over in about 2070.

 

[NCCommish]

If a Yahoo employee dirty ##### the company birthday cake, should we blame the CEO?

There are 2 million people in uniform and another 600k civilians in the DoD. You can't blame the Commander in Chief for a soldier stealing a sandwich from the Shoppette. Well maybe you can, but since you never served your opinion means #### anyway.

Hey NCC>I'll ease up on the coffee now, just for you buddy.

Doc, you're off on this one. If the CinC told Soldiers to look the other way, that's a lot different than one Soldier committing a crime. Funny that you would associate child rape with stealing a sandwich. Does my opinion count?

So basically you are saying that if some Army Captain told a PFC to ignore it is the President's fault? Who said the CinC told them to look the other way? Also the Shoppette example was for reference to the sheer volume of troops that fall under the president. I did not compare that to raping children and to say that I did makes you no better than meatwads.

You know a policy to look the other way comes from the top. You know that means high level approval. And you know the people at that level answer to the CinC directly. Maybe he wasn't aware but I guarantee he is now. So its time to act.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

If a Yahoo employee dirty ##### the company birthday cake, should we blame the CEO?

There are 2 million people in uniform and another 600k civilians in the DoD. You can't blame the Commander in Chief for a soldier stealing a sandwich from the Shoppette. Well maybe you can, but since you never served your opinion means #### anyway.

Hey NCC>I'll ease up on the coffee now, just for you buddy.

Well I did serve so I guess I get an opinion. If you read the article our guys are saying they can hear the abuse at night. So it is happening pretty close to where they are. And I personally believe there is no place for that on a US base, none. And I believe it should be made clear to those doing it. Further whoever made the decision to look the other way, which wasn't some grunt, needs to change that policy. You want to rape children? You don't do it under cover of our flag.

So attack as you will but we are supposed to be the good guys and good guys don't let #### like this happen under their nose.

I don't disagree with any of this. Why is this directed at me exactly? This is not even tracking the thread you quoted, you could have just posted this as a separate entry. HTH

 

[Doctor Detroit]

If a Yahoo employee dirty ##### the company birthday cake, should we blame the CEO?

There are 2 million people in uniform and another 600k civilians in the DoD. You can't blame the Commander in Chief for a soldier stealing a sandwich from the Shoppette. Well maybe you can, but since you never served your opinion means #### anyway.

Hey NCC>I'll ease up on the coffee now, just for you buddy.

Doc, you're off on this one. If the CinC told Soldiers to look the other way, that's a lot different than one Soldier committing a crime. Funny that you would associate child rape with stealing a sandwich. Does my opinion count?

So basically you are saying that if some Army Captain told a PFC to ignore it is the President's fault? Who said the CinC told them to look the other way?

Also the Shoppette example was for reference to the sheer volume of troops that fall under the president. I did not compare that to raping children and to say that I did makes you no better than meatwads.

no, this seems a lot bigger than one Captain.

You're having a rough dad Doc. go drink a zima and relax.

What?

 

[NCCommish]

If a Yahoo employee dirty ##### the company birthday cake, should we blame the CEO?

There are 2 million people in uniform and another 600k civilians in the DoD. You can't blame the Commander in Chief for a soldier stealing a sandwich from the Shoppette. Well maybe you can, but since you never served your opinion means #### anyway.

Hey NCC>I'll ease up on the coffee now, just for you buddy.

Well I did serve so I guess I get an opinion. If you read the article our guys are saying they can hear the abuse at night. So it is happening pretty close to where they are. And I personally believe there is no place for that on a US base, none. And I believe it should be made clear to those doing it. Further whoever made the decision to look the other way, which wasn't some grunt, needs to change that policy. You want to rape children? You don't do it under cover of our flag.So attack as you will but we are supposed to be the good guys and good guys don't let #### like this happen under their nose.

I don't disagree with any of this. Why is this directed at me exactly? This is not even tracking the thread you quoted, you could have just posted this as a separate entry. HTH

Actually I thought it spoke pretty directly to what you were saying perhaps I misunderstood your point.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Our guys are being punished for reporting and intervening.

allegedly. seems they might also be punished for assault.

I don't see that from the links around the story. This happened in 2011 and now he's being forced out due to right sizing.

Did he get a bad evaluation or some UCMJ for the incident? I didn't see that mentioned.

 

[PIK95]

at all of the atheist libs who will sling barbs at Pope Francis and the Catholics unabated, but come here to show their universal condemnation; apparently so naive about how chain of command works, they are completely unaware of the fact that President Pedo-bama is actually in charge of the military!!!!

Yep....I see that the administration was in full denial mode today....they knew nothing of any of this going on....riiiiight...... Keep on trukin' fellas, you are all fightin' the good fight!!!!

What are you talking about. I'm one of those A.L. and I love this Pope and blame Obama for this. Idiot.

 

[Meatwad Reloaded]

If a Yahoo employee dirty ##### the company birthday cake, should we blame the CEO?

There are 2 million people in uniform and another 600k civilians in the DoD. You can't blame the Commander in Chief for a soldier stealing a sandwich from the Shoppette. Well maybe you can, but since you never served your opinion means #### anyway.

Hey NCC>I'll ease up on the coffee now, just for you buddy.

Umm...nope. Try reading the story. There is a reason people are looking the other way on this. Just like there was a reason people were looking the other way when Bush was in charge. Buckle up and own the fact that your guy facilitates child abuse to serve a political purpose.

Hey...its not like this is the first time this has happened...but in all seriousness, you cannot defend the administration on this. They are 100% the ones who are telling the military higher ups to let this stuff go. Also, as far as 2 million people in uniform go...the vast majority of them are plebes, taking orders from generals and officers who answer to people in the Obama administration.

You have problems guy. Among them is being a paranoid, delusional, and a dangerous putz. No one cares about your opinion, much less some trolling rants designed to illuminate some serious personal mental instability. Take your meds, go to bed, hope that something triggers some sense in you.

Just look at yourself dude. You obviously have some sort of personal problem with me because any time I post, you devolve into a bumbling namecaller. If you do not agree with me, attack my ideas. I am stating that this is on Obama and his administration. Just lay out an argument why it isn't. Its not that tough, is it?

 

[Chadstroma]

Makes my stomach turn. Makes me weep for this sick and twisted world in many ways.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

If a Yahoo employee dirty ##### the company birthday cake, should we blame the CEO?

There are 2 million people in uniform and another 600k civilians in the DoD. You can't blame the Commander in Chief for a soldier stealing a sandwich from the Shoppette. Well maybe you can, but since you never served your opinion means #### anyway.

Hey NCC>I'll ease up on the coffee now, just for you buddy.

Umm...nope. Try reading the story. There is a reason people are looking the other way on this. Just like there was a reason people were looking the other way when Bush was in charge. Buckle up and own the fact that your guy facilitates child abuse to serve a political purpose.

Hey...its not like this is the first time this has happened...but in all seriousness, you cannot defend the administration on this. They are 100% the ones who are telling the military higher ups to let this stuff go. Also, as far as 2 million people in uniform go...the vast majority of them are plebes, taking orders from generals and officers who answer to people in the Obama administration.

You have problems guy. Among them is being a paranoid, delusional, and a dangerous putz. No one cares about your opinion, much less some trolling rants designed to illuminate some serious personal mental instability. Take your meds, go to bed, hope that something triggers some sense in you.

Just look at yourself dude. You obviously have some sort of personal problem with me because any time I post, you devolve into a bumbling namecaller. If you do not agree with me, attack my ideas. I am stating that this is on Obama and his administration. Just lay out an argument why it isn't. Its not that tough, is it?

Check the bolded. There is really no reason to respond to that with anything less than what I did. I mean every one of your posts in both forums here are either really bad trolling, or wackoville.

 

[Meatwad Reloaded]

I thought a US Military base was kind of like an embassy, US Soil in a foreign land.

Do us all a favor: stop thinking

Try less coffee. No need to be ugly some folks don't know how these things work.

Did you read the rest of his post? The whole thing is utter nonsense.

Man what the ever living #### is your problem? I have never seen you be anything but a relentless troll on these boards. Since you seem to have read the status of forces agreement with Afghanistan that defines the status of bases and troops why don't you fill us in?

clearly I'm not DD but I did stay at a Holiday Inn...

If an American Soldier has reason to believe an Afghan soldier has committed a crime, they report to their chain of command and at a high enough level (usually battalion, sometimes higher) the US commander discusses it with the Afghan commander and the Afghan system processes the allegation. The US commanders have no authority to prosecute Afghans. Sometimes the DoS gets involved, but if only soldiers are involved, it's usually a chain of command issue. We've had some success encouraging the Afghan forces to discipline their soldiers but it doesn't always go as we think it should. Sometimes it's harsher, sometimes nothing happens. If this has been a systemic issue, the big wigs would have to get involved.

Navy Capt. Jeff Davis, a DoD spokesman, said at a Pentagon briefing Monday that the U.S. military finds the widespread reports of pedophilia among Afghan security forces to be "absolutely abhorrent, but added that it is fundamentally an Afghan law enforcement matter."

"Those are reports that are given over to the Afghan government, Davis said. "We monitor these atrocities closely, and weve repeatedly stood up for those whove suffered exploitation and denial of basic human freedoms.

We work closely with the Afghan government and with their civil society and other organizations in Afghanistan to put an end to horrific practices like this. And we also incorporate human rights training into our training programs with the Afghan security forces, Davis said.

When it happens on our base and we punish our guys over it its an American problem and not a kick the can down the road problem.

right. if our guys (or gals) commit crimes, we prosecute. These are not our guys.

So they are doing business on our base, that we own, and not only do they bring harems of little boys with them, but you can hear the buggering going on loud and clear. That's not a problem?

 

[Meatwad Reloaded]

If a Yahoo employee dirty ##### the company birthday cake, should we blame the CEO?

There are 2 million people in uniform and another 600k civilians in the DoD. You can't blame the Commander in Chief for a soldier stealing a sandwich from the Shoppette. Well maybe you can, but since you never served your opinion means #### anyway.

Hey NCC>I'll ease up on the coffee now, just for you buddy.

Umm...nope. Try reading the story. There is a reason people are looking the other way on this. Just like there was a reason people were looking the other way when Bush was in charge. Buckle up and own the fact that your guy facilitates child abuse to serve a political purpose.

Hey...its not like this is the first time this has happened...but in all seriousness, you cannot defend the administration on this. They are 100% the ones who are telling the military higher ups to let this stuff go. Also, as far as 2 million people in uniform go...the vast majority of them are plebes, taking orders from generals and officers who answer to people in the Obama administration.

You have problems guy. Among them is being a paranoid, delusional, and a dangerous putz. No one cares about your opinion, much less some trolling rants designed to illuminate some serious personal mental instability. Take your meds, go to bed, hope that something triggers some sense in you.

Just look at yourself dude. You obviously have some sort of personal problem with me because any time I post, you devolve into a bumbling namecaller. If you do not agree with me, attack my ideas. I am stating that this is on Obama and his administration. Just lay out an argument why it isn't. Its not that tough, is it?

Check the bolded. There is really no reason to respond to that with anything less than what I did. I mean every one of your posts in both forums here are either really bad trolling, or wackoville.

Actually, it is common knowledge around here that you are not supposed to resort to personal attacks when you get your undies in a bundle. I get it, you and I do not share the same point of view. But really, who is the troll here? There are now two people in this thread alone calling you out for boorish and thoughtless behavior. I am still waiting for you to address how this has nothing to do with Obama administration policy. All you've got so far is calling me a 'wacko'. What a surprise.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Actually I tried to explain that the armed forces are so big it's impossible to control the behaviors of all individuals 8000 miles away, then you went into your child abuse shtick. Furthermore no one but you is saying this is some sort of Commander in Chief policy, and that is so far-fetched that you are basically saying Bush killed Pat Tillman and Reagan's policies were facilitating the raping of Japanese girls in Okinawa in the 80s. It's so outrageous and completely unsupported by facts, I really don't see any reason to debate it. '

 

[FUBAR]

I thought a US Military base was kind of like an embassy, US Soil in a foreign land.

Do us all a favor: stop thinking

Try less coffee. No need to be ugly some folks don't know how these things work.

Did you read the rest of his post? The whole thing is utter nonsense.

Man what the ever living #### is your problem? I have never seen you be anything but a relentless troll on these boards. Since you seem to have read the status of forces agreement with Afghanistan that defines the status of bases and troops why don't you fill us in?

clearly I'm not DD but I did stay at a Holiday Inn...

If an American Soldier has reason to believe an Afghan soldier has committed a crime, they report to their chain of command and at a high enough level (usually battalion, sometimes higher) the US commander discusses it with the Afghan commander and the Afghan system processes the allegation. The US commanders have no authority to prosecute Afghans. Sometimes the DoS gets involved, but if only soldiers are involved, it's usually a chain of command issue. We've had some success encouraging the Afghan forces to discipline their soldiers but it doesn't always go as we think it should. Sometimes it's harsher, sometimes nothing happens. If this has been a systemic issue, the big wigs would have to get involved.

Navy Capt. Jeff Davis, a DoD spokesman, said at a Pentagon briefing Monday that the U.S. military finds the widespread reports of pedophilia among Afghan security forces to be "absolutely abhorrent, but added that it is fundamentally an Afghan law enforcement matter."

"Those are reports that are given over to the Afghan government, Davis said. "We monitor these atrocities closely, and weve repeatedly stood up for those whove suffered exploitation and denial of basic human freedoms.

We work closely with the Afghan government and with their civil society and other organizations in Afghanistan to put an end to horrific practices like this. And we also incorporate human rights training into our training programs with the Afghan security forces, Davis said.

When it happens on our base and we punish our guys over it its an American problem and not a kick the can down the road problem.

right. if our guys (or gals) commit crimes, we prosecute. These are not our guys.

So they are doing business on our base, that we own, and not only do they bring harems of little boys with them, but you can hear the buggering going on loud and clear. That's not a problem?

of course it's a problem in many ways. Just not one we prosecute unless the policy makers consider the ICC or other international criminal courts. The problem with doing that is it publicizes our lack of faith in the Afghan courts, which is one of the key objectives in Afghanistan. So the policy makers either push these allgations to the Afghan courts which we're trying to make functional, or announce to the world that we've failed over the past 14 years to establish a functioning rule of law in Afghanistan.

Maybe the right answer is to admit failure. But what politician does that?

 

[NCCommish]

I thought a US Military base was kind of like an embassy, US Soil in a foreign land.

Do us all a favor: stop thinking

Try less coffee. No need to be ugly some folks don't know how these things work.

Did you read the rest of his post? The whole thing is utter nonsense.

Man what the ever living #### is your problem? I have never seen you be anything but a relentless troll on these boards. Since you seem to have read the status of forces agreement with Afghanistan that defines the status of bases and troops why don't you fill us in?

clearly I'm not DD but I did stay at a Holiday Inn...

If an American Soldier has reason to believe an Afghan soldier has committed a crime, they report to their chain of command and at a high enough level (usually battalion, sometimes higher) the US commander discusses it with the Afghan commander and the Afghan system processes the allegation. The US commanders have no authority to prosecute Afghans. Sometimes the DoS gets involved, but if only soldiers are involved, it's usually a chain of command issue. We've had some success encouraging the Afghan forces to discipline their soldiers but it doesn't always go as we think it should. Sometimes it's harsher, sometimes nothing happens. If this has been a systemic issue, the big wigs would have to get involved.

Navy Capt. Jeff Davis, a DoD spokesman, said at a Pentagon briefing Monday that the U.S. military finds the widespread reports of pedophilia among Afghan security forces to be "absolutely abhorrent, but added that it is fundamentally an Afghan law enforcement matter.""Those are reports that are given over to the Afghan government, Davis said. "We monitor these atrocities closely, and weve repeatedly stood up for those whove suffered exploitation and denial of basic human freedoms.

We work closely with the Afghan government and with their civil society and other organizations in Afghanistan to put an end to horrific practices like this. And we also incorporate human rights training into our training programs with the Afghan security forces, Davis said.

When it happens on our base and we punish our guys over it its an American problem and not a kick the can down the road problem.

right. if our guys (or gals) commit crimes, we prosecute. These are not our guys.

So they are doing business on our base, that we own, and not only do they bring harems of little boys with them, but you can hear the buggering going on loud and clear. That's not a problem?

of course it's a problem in many ways. Just not one we prosecute unless the policy makers consider the ICC or other international criminal courts. The problem with doing that is it publicizes our lack of faith in the Afghan courts, which is one of the key objectives in Afghanistan. So the policy makers either push these allgations to the Afghan courts which we're trying to make functional, or announce to the world that we've failed over the past 14 years to establish a functioning rule of law in Afghanistan.

Maybe the right answer is to admit failure. But what politician does that?

Maybe the right answer is to say not on our base and if you don't like it we will just leave. Good luck.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Maybe the right answer is to say not on our base and if you don't like it we will just leave. Good luck.

The story of Martland in your original post did not happen on base.

 

[Clifford]

How about:

Never allowed to happen on base and we are not responsible for anything that happens to anyone that violates that

An unofficial policy of looking the other way when one of our soldiers accidentally beats a child-raper to death

And if they don't like it we can pack our #### and leave like everyone else. I mean WTF is the mission there at this point anyway? Prop up a government that allows child sex slavery?

 

[RedmondLonghorn]

but since you never served your opinion means #### anyway.

10/10 on the dumb scale

 

[Doctor Detroit]

but since you never served your opinion means #### anyway.

10/10 on the dumb scale

Agreed, I apologize for that remark.

 

[NCCommish]

Maybe the right answer is to say not on our base and if you don't like it we will just leave. Good luck.

The story of Martland in your original post did not happen on base.

No but we have soldiers saying it does.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Maybe the right answer is to say not on our base and if you don't like it we will just leave. Good luck.

The story of Martland in your original post did not happen on base.

No but we have soldiers saying it does.

Sure but there is a lot of outrage being applied (not here necessarily) without having all the facts. Martland was on a patrol when he tussled with the Afghan Police Commander outside the wire. So he was trying to apply American justice in Afghanistan where he had no legal authority. So then he got a bad eval I guess after being removed from country (rightfully I might add for his safety and the SOFA), and now is being released from his contract because of downsizing.

The way people are telling this story is that Martland is being thrown out of the Army for reporting Afghan's having sex with boys on base. Those simply are not the facts.

 

[Chadstroma]

Maybe the right answer is to say not on our base and if you don't like it we will just leave. Good luck.

The story of Martland in your original post did not happen on base.

No but we have soldiers saying it does.

Sure but there is a lot of outrage being applied (not here necessarily) without having all the facts. Martland was on a patrol when he tussled with the Afghan Police Commander outside the wire. So he was trying to apply American justice in Afghanistan where he had no legal authority. So then he got a bad eval I guess after being removed from country (rightfully I might add for his safety and the SOFA), and now is being released from his contract because of downsizing.

The way people are telling this story is that Martland is being thrown out of the Army for reporting Afghan's having sex with boys on base. Those simply are not the facts.

That is pretty much par for course these days. People hear a story, usually right after it happens, and decide what happened right away based on almost no facts. Pretty much every 'breaking' story does this and often the way people view what happened comes out of their worldview. I remember stating once "We don't know what happened yet as we don't know the facts." and seriously getting a reply "I don't need to know the facts, I know what happened." in the very early stages of the Ferguson thing. The fact that the cop was white, the kid was black and there was no gun found on the kid was enough for her to know exactly what happened. It is an epidemic thing where people jump to conclusions based on their own prejudices. People were always like that but I think the age of smart phones, youtube, and breaking news coverage has exacerbated the problem.

 

[Rove!]

Maybe the right answer is to say not on our base and if you don't like it we will just leave. Good luck.

The story of Martland in your original post did not happen on base.

No but we have soldiers saying it does.

Sure but there is a lot of outrage being applied (not here necessarily) without having all the facts. Martland was on a patrol when he tussled with the Afghan Police Commander outside the wire. So he was trying to apply American justice in Afghanistan where he had no legal authority. So then he got a bad eval I guess after being removed from country (rightfully I might add for his safety and the SOFA), and now is being released from his contract because of downsizing. The way people are telling this story is that Martland is being thrown out of the Army for reporting Afghan's having sex with boys on base. Those simply are not the facts.

That is pretty much par for course these days. People hear a story, usually right after it happens, and decide what happened right away based on almost no facts. Pretty much every 'breaking' story does this and often the way people view what happened comes out of their worldview. I remember stating once "We don't know what happened yet as we don't know the facts." and seriously getting a reply "I don't need to know the facts, I know what happened." in the very early stages of the Ferguson thing. The fact that the cop was white, the kid was black and there was no gun found on the kid was enough for her to know exactly what happened. It is an epidemic thing where people jump to conclusions based on their own prejudices. People were always like that but I think the age of smart phones, youtube, and breaking news coverage has exacerbated the problem.

Part of the problem is that there are skilled lawyers and PR guys who will twist fact and adamantly and confidently advance "facts" that are simply false. This makes people more skeptical of narratives that come out after affected parties have had time to strategize a defense.

 

[Chadstroma]

Maybe the right answer is to say not on our base and if you don't like it we will just leave. Good luck.

The story of Martland in your original post did not happen on base.

No but we have soldiers saying it does.

Sure but there is a lot of outrage being applied (not here necessarily) without having all the facts. Martland was on a patrol when he tussled with the Afghan Police Commander outside the wire. So he was trying to apply American justice in Afghanistan where he had no legal authority. So then he got a bad eval I guess after being removed from country (rightfully I might add for his safety and the SOFA), and now is being released from his contract because of downsizing. The way people are telling this story is that Martland is being thrown out of the Army for reporting Afghan's having sex with boys on base. Those simply are not the facts.

That is pretty much par for course these days. People hear a story, usually right after it happens, and decide what happened right away based on almost no facts. Pretty much every 'breaking' story does this and often the way people view what happened comes out of their worldview. I remember stating once "We don't know what happened yet as we don't know the facts." and seriously getting a reply "I don't need to know the facts, I know what happened." in the very early stages of the Ferguson thing. The fact that the cop was white, the kid was black and there was no gun found on the kid was enough for her to know exactly what happened. It is an epidemic thing where people jump to conclusions based on their own prejudices. People were always like that but I think the age of smart phones, youtube, and breaking news coverage has exacerbated the problem.

Part of the problem is that there are skilled lawyers and PR guys who will twist fact and adamantly and confidently advance "facts" that are simply false. This makes people more skeptical of narratives that come out after affected parties have had time to strategize a defense.

I don't think people wait for that these days. The freaking read a headline and then make their minds up of exactly what happened which is based on their own prejudices and the headline. This Ahmed with the Clock kid is another great example. Pretty much all is known is that the kid brings what is a "clock" to school and he gets arrested etc- oh, and he is Muslim. Bam! Muslim? Clock/Bomb? Handcuffed? And people are off and running....