Some random thoughts while I was away. (1 Viewer)

[Thunderlips]

They are but more importantly virtually all hospitalizations and deaths are from unvaccinated people. 

I really don't know any vaccinated people, who once their children are able to be vaccinated, really care what happens to the unvaccinated.  Everyone knew the vaccinated could still spread it.  People chose not to pay attention.  

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

It’s because you won’t change your opinion that I seek to force you to be vaccinated. Since I can’t convince you through reason and logic, I see no other choice. I would prefer it were otherwise. 

You can't brainwash me so you're going to force me to get injected with something I don't want?  

Nevermind on the rest.  YOu and your buddies are looking to mash the report button.  

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

I really don't know any vaccinated people, who once their children are able to be vaccinated, really care what happens to the unvaccinated.  Everyone knew the vaccinated could still spread it.  People chose not to pay attention.  

Yeah, all those last year ripping on people not wanting to wear masks to protect everyone are now the selfish crowd.  It is what it is.  Join our tribe or to hell with you is the mentality.

 

[timschochet]

You can't brainwash me so you're going to force me to get injected with something I don't want?  

Nevermind on the rest.  YOu and your buddies are looking to mash the report button.  

1. I have no wish to brainwash you. I’d like to convince you. But if I can’t, then I need to force you in the interests of society. That is the purpose of all laws and restrictions. If everyone chose voluntarily never to jaywalk, then jaywalking would not need to be illegal. It’s illegal because some people choose to do it anyhow and that doesn’t benefit society. 
 

2. Nothing that I have written, or you have written, merits use of the report button. I’ve used the report button exactly twice in my 14 years in these forums, so I don’t think you’re referring to me. 

 

[timschochet]

I really don't know any vaccinated people, who once their children are able to be vaccinated, really care what happens to the unvaccinated.  Everyone knew the vaccinated could still spread it.  People chose not to pay attention.  

This isn’t true of me or anyone I know. We hate it when people get sick. I’ve been reading stories of people in hospitals, dying, begging for the vaccine, and it’s too late. So gut wrenching. 

That being said, there is a real threat to the vaccinated if hospital and ICU beds continue to fill up. 

 

[squistion]

1. I have no wish to brainwash you. I’d like to convince you. But if I can’t, then I need to force you in the interests of society. That is the purpose of all laws and restrictions. If everyone chose voluntarily never to jaywalk, then jaywalking would not need to be illegal. It’s illegal because some people choose to do it anyhow and that doesn’t benefit society. 
 

2. Nothing that I have written, or you have written, merits use of the report button. I’ve used the report button exactly twice in my 14 years in these forums, so I don’t think you’re referring to me. 

:(

You want to arrest people and strap them down on a gurney and forcibly inject them with a vaccine? This is not like mandating wearing seat belts or helmets for motorcycle riders. A forced vaccination is invasive.

If this were like smallpox I would probably agree (NYC did that in an outbreak about 100 years ago) but in this case, something like only about 98% of those being hospitalized due to the Delta variant, are the unvaccinated (so this is a risk that most of them undertook voluntarily).

 

[KarmaPolice]

What is CNN telling them?

Nothing, because I don't watch CNN.  

They know that, they don't care and post it anyway. But I am not allowed to say the "t" word.  

 

[djmich]

:(

You want to arrest people and strap them down on a gurney and forcibly inject them with a vaccine? This is not like mandating wearing seat belts or helmets for motorcycle riders. A forced vaccination is invasive.

If this were like smallpox I would probably agree (NYC did that in an outbreak about 100 years ago) but in this case, something like only about 2% of those being hospitalized due to the Delta variant, are the unvaccinated (so this is a risk that most of them undertook voluntarily).

Life is like a box of chocolates…good post!

 

[timschochet]

:(

You want to arrest people and strap them down on a gurney and forcibly inject them with a vaccine? This is not like mandating wearing seat belts or helmets for motorcycle riders. A forced vaccination is invasive.

If this were like smallpox I would probably agree (NYC did that in an outbreak about 100 years ago) but in this case, something like only about 2% of those being hospitalized due to the Delta variant, are the unvaccinated (so this is a risk that most of them undertook voluntarily).

No. 
Earlier I made the point that society, not necessarily government, should mandate vaccinations, by not hiring, by not allowing the unvaccinated to take part in public aspects of life the rest of us enjoy. That’s what I meant. 

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Nothing, because I don't watch CNN.  

They know that, they don't care and post it anyway. But I am not allowed to say the "t" word.  

I cut my cable years ago so I obviously don't watch it either.  I do miss that comedy channel called Fox News.

 

[Thunderlips]

Yeah, all those last year ripping on people not wanting to wear masks to protect everyone are now the selfish crowd.  It is what it is.  Join our tribe or to hell with you is the mentality.

Most of us Centrists are just common sense like that.  I can't make you wear the mask, get the vaccine or social distance.  Go with God.  If you surivive it....God Bless You.  If you don't....play stupid games; win stupid prizes.

 

[squistion]

No. 
Earlier I made the point that society, not necessarily government, should mandate vaccinations, by not hiring, by not allowing the unvaccinated to take part in public aspects of life the rest of us enjoy. That’s what I meant. 

Not to get too much in semantics, but that is not "forcing" them as they still have the option of not getting the vaccine. 

 

[rockaction]

If this were like smallpox I would probably agree (NYC did that in an outbreak about 100 years ago) but in this case, something like only about 98% of those being hospitalized due to the Delta variant, are the unvaccinated (so this is a risk that most of them undertook voluntarily).

You would likely not agree in the least. Health officials went door-to-door in New York City and not only forced immigrants to inoculate (back when inoculations were so much riskier because they contained the live virus) when they couldn't speak English or understand what was going on. Health officials also took children away and put them with other smallpox sufferers in large, contained smallpox public areas so that they wouldn't spread the disease to their families or neighbors. They forced family separations, often by kicking in doors under the police power they were afforded by the federal and state constitutions. The actions were not in accord with what we would call modern scientific bioethics.

You would be crying total foul if we did what NYC did during the smallpox era. I've read Michael Willrich's Pox, and have written and quoted it at great length here. I assure you that you would not support what they did.

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

Not sure what I expected coming into this thread  - but arguments for forced vaccination doesn't really surprise me.

 

[timschochet]

You would likely not agree in the least. Health officials went door-to-door in New York City and not only forced immigrants to inoculate (back when inoculations were so much riskier because they contained the live virus) when they couldn't speak English or understand what was going on. Health officials also took children away and put them with other smallpox sufferers in large, contained smallpox public areas so that they wouldn't spread the disease to their families or neighbors. They forced family separations, often by kicking in doors under the police power they were afforded by the federal and state constitutions. The actions were not in accord with what we would call modern scientific bioethics.

You would be crying total foul if we did what NYC did during the smallpox era. I've read Michael Willrich's Pox, and have written and quoted it at great length here. I assure you that you would not support what they did.

If the hospital beds and ICUs continue to fill up, who knows what public officials will recommend? It’s an untenable situation. 

 

[rockaction]

If the hospital beds and ICUs continue to fill up, who knows what public officials will recommend? It’s an untenable situation. 

Not to be curt, but I was specifically referring to smallpox at the turn of the century and a bit beyond. Completely different animal. And what public health officials did back then was way more in line with what you are saying, only they did it locally because the Constitution grants broad police power to the states. That's actually something Trump was right about and I was wrong about initially.

 

[timschochet]

Not sure what I expected coming into this thread  - but arguments for forced vaccination doesn't really surprise me.

I’m not there yet in the way that @squistiondefines it. I’m for public pressure at this point.

But I’d be lying if I told you that this couldn’t change. It depends how dire things get. Again I’m not focusing on the number of people who catch COVID, I’m primarily concerned with the number of hospital beds available. 

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

1. I have no wish to brainwash you. I’d like to convince you. But if I can’t, then I need to force you in the interests of society. That is the purpose of all laws and restrictions. If everyone chose voluntarily never to jaywalk, then jaywalking would not need to be illegal. It’s illegal because some people choose to do it anyhow and that doesn’t benefit society. 
 

2. Nothing that I have written, or you have written, merits use of the report button. I’ve used the report button exactly twice in my 14 years in these forums, so I don’t think you’re referring to me. 

It’s good. We disagree.  We aren’t changing our minds. Move on to another topic 

 

[timschochet]

It’s good. We disagree.  We aren’t changing our minds. Move on to another topic 

There really is no other topic. 

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

There really is no other topic. 

Okay

 

[squistion]

You would likely not agree in the least. Health officials went door-to-door in New York City and not only forced immigrants to inoculate (back when inoculations were so much riskier because they contained the live virus) when they couldn't speak English or understand what was going on. Health officials also took children away and put them with other smallpox sufferers in large, contained smallpox public areas so that they wouldn't spread the disease to their families or neighbors. They forced family separations, often by kicking in doors under the police power they were afforded by the federal and state constitutions. The actions were not in accord with what we would call modern scientific bioethics.

You would be crying total foul if we did what NYC did during the smallpox era. I've read Michael Willrich's Pox, and have written and quoted it at great length here. I assure you that you would not support what they did.

Don't be so presumptuous as to speak for me. Ever see photos of people with black smallpox? Desperate times sometimes requires desperate measures. The perception/possibility of smallpox sweeping through NYC like it did with the Plains Indians probably justified those actions. 

I am old enough to remember some Republicans and conservatives calling for all gay men to be quarantined in the early 80's before it was known that AIDS could only be transmitted by sexual contact or transfusions (that was when it was called GRID for Gay-Related-Immune-Deficiency). If the threat to the public is perceived to be that great, then we could see drastic measures like what happened in NYC happen again under the right circumstances. 

 

[rockaction]

Don't be so presumptuous as to speak for me. Ever see photos of people with black smallpox? Desperate times sometimes requires desperate measures. The perception/possibility of smallpox sweeping through NYC like it did with the Plains Indians probably justified those actions. 

I am old enough to remember some Republicans and conservatives calling for all gay men to be quarantined in the early 80's before it was known that AIDS could only be transmitted by sexual contact or transfusions (that was when it was called GRID for Gay-Related-Immune-Deficiency). If the threat to the public is perceived to be that great, then we could see drastic measures like what happened in NYC happen again under the right circumstances. 

“Likely”is enough of a hedge given your posting history. 

 

[rockaction]

Enough of that.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Most of us Centrists are just common sense like that.  I can't make you wear the mask, get the vaccine or social distance.  Go with God.  If you surivive it....God Bless You.  If you don't....play stupid games; win stupid prizes.

 
I agree with this, as a fellow centrist.   I am vaccinated and wish everyone else would be as well, but we cannot force vaccinations in this situation on people.  I am good with restrictions on certain things if you do not.  For example, Dave Matthews Band is now requiring proof that you have been vaccinated at most of their concerts, otherwise you will not be allowed in the venue.  I am good with stuff like that.  Don't like it and do not want to get vaccinated, then do not go.  Freewill and all that. 

 

[dkp993]

There really is no other topic. 

Damn Tim, having a hard time dropping it huh?  He tried like 3 different times to move on.  

 

[AAABatteries]

I’m not there yet in the way that @squistiondefines it. I’m for public pressure at this point.

But I’d be lying if I told you that this couldn’t change. It depends how dire things get. Again I’m not focusing on the number of people who catch COVID, I’m primarily concerned with the number of hospital beds available. 

Public pressure and forced vaccination are two different things.

The number of hospital beds available is something Biden got wrong.  He should have been prepared for Covid only facilities in every state.  I don’t care how stupid people are and are not getting the vaccine - not having beds is on leadership.

 

[timschochet]

Damn Tim, having a hard time dropping it huh?  He tried like 3 different times to move on.  

Nobody is forced to respond to me. 
This is the same poster who, on Friday night, suggested that the forum was a better place without my presence and that perhaps I should be banned permanently. He has the right to hold that opinion, but then he (and a few others who agreed with him) chose to come in this thread to discuss issues with me. Which I will always welcome. 

 

[timschochet]

Public pressure and forced vaccination are two different things.

The number of hospital beds available is something Biden got wrong.  He should have been prepared for Covid only facilities in every state.  I don’t care how stupid people are and are not getting the vaccine - not having beds is on leadership.

I don’t think they anticipated Delta. 

 

[AAABatteries]

I don’t think they anticipated Delta. 

Doesn’t matter - that’s the whole point of being in leadership.  You say, you know what - last spring/summer we got caught unprepared.  We will not have that happen again.  But we are.  I don’t know how pervasive it is and how big an impact it is but not having beds for Covid patients is unconscionable IMO.  And I realize a lot of blame goes to the morons not getting vaccinated.

 

[dkp993]

Nobody is forced to respond to me. 
This is the same poster who, on Friday night, suggested that the forum was a better place without my presence and that perhaps I should be banned permanently. He has the right to hold that opinion, but then he (and a few others who agreed with him) chose to come in this thread to discuss issues with me. Which I will always welcome. 

Sure, totally get it.  But imo once someone tries to amenably end it (especially 3 times) it’s time to move on. Agree to disagree and drop it.  
But that’s just mho of course.  

 

[timschochet]

Sure, totally get it.  But imo once someone tries to amenably end it (especially 3 times) it’s time to move on. Agree to disagree and drop it.  
But that’s just mho of course.  

The whole point of our disagreement on this issue is that nobody gets to drop it. It’s not a situation where we can choose to each go our own way. He, and others like him, do not get to stay unvaccinated. That’s not acceptable to the safety of our society. 

 

[dkp993]

He, and others like him, do not get to stay unvaccinated. That’s not acceptable to the safety of our society. 

This statement needs to end with an “in my opinion”.   You certainly have the right to feel this way, but it’s not a statement of fact.  

And with that I will be dropping out of our conversation amicably, regardless if you will be.

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

I’m not there yet in the way that @squistiondefines it. I’m for public pressure at this point.

Why? Why should public pressure override an individuals conversation with their doctor?

 

[timschochet]

This statement needs to end with an “in my opinion”.   You certainly have the right to feel this way, but it’s not a statement of fact.  

And with that I will be dropping out of our conversation amicably, regardless if you will be.

Of course everything I write, unless accompanied by facts or statistics, is my opinion.

 

[timschochet]

Why? Why should public pressure override an individuals conversation with their doctor?

Because it’s a public health crisis. 

 

[AAABatteries]

Why? Why should public pressure override an individuals conversation with their doctor?

Because some doctors are as biased and stupid as the people refusing to get the vaccine.

Not to mention we are saying pressure them - not force them.

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

Not to mention we are saying pressure them - not force them.

Oh. So "forced vaccinations" are kinda like "defund the police" of Covid.

 

[AAABatteries]

Oh. So "forced vaccinations" are kinda like "defund the police" of Covid.

Sure - I don’t care.  Defund the police is more dumb than forced vaccinations but it’s close.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

My best advice is that if you really don't want someone to post so much, quit quoting that person in your own posts.

 

[TheMagus]

Public pressure and forced vaccination are two different things.

The number of hospital beds available is something Biden got wrong.  He should have been prepared for Covid only facilities in every state.  I don’t care how stupid people are and are not getting the vaccine - not having beds is on leadership.

Does the POTUS usually manage hospital capacities at the local level? Has any state reached out to the Feds and not gotten support from the national guard or military? I'm confused by your take on this. 

 

[Phil Elliott]

Does the POTUS usually manage hospital capacities at the local level? Has any state reached out to the Feds and not gotten support from the national guard or military? I'm confused by your take on this. 

There certainly was some federal and local help at increasing hospital beds on a temporary basis (ships, convention centers, etc). Why can't we set these up again?

 

[timschochet]

At the Paris tonight- Gordon Ramsay’s Steakhouse. Very tasty. 

 

[the moops]

Why? Why should public pressure override an individuals conversation with their doctor?

Because it’s a public health crisis. 

Also, there has gotta be very few people that are refusing the vaccine because their doctor advised them on that

 

[TheMagus]

There certainly was some federal and local help at increasing hospital beds on a temporary basis (ships, convention centers, etc). Why can't we set these up again?

I'm sure we can. But if I recall correctly in the past it was the state governors requesting assistance from the federal government to install that. Is Biden supposed to be sending in the troops to states that aren't asking for help? Isn't that the same thing we got angry about with the BLM protests with Trump even though that was more appropriate given some of the sites where protests were occurring were federal buildings?

 

[AAABatteries]

Does the POTUS usually manage hospital capacities at the local level? Has any state reached out to the Feds and not gotten support from the national guard or military? I'm confused by your take on this. 

Not sure on either of your questions but I’m also not sure how that’s relevant.  Biden (or whoever is President) should anticipate this need - work with states and if they are unwilling then plan without them.  Also, don’t interpret my post as absolving local leaders from blame - I’ve already said they are more at fault for localized spreads and lack of resources.  But after what we saw last year they all should have prepared accordingly. Just MO.

 

[supermike80]

Nothing, because I don't watch CNN.  

They know that, they don't care and post it anyway. But I am not allowed to say the "t" word.  

Hey can say any word you want.  CNN Is no more than a quick reference to whatever liberal media you consume.   You can say you don't watch or take in CNN, that doesn't at all convince me that you aren't completely biased by  your media.  It's obvious in your posts...But as far as words you want to use, use them.    I'm not trying to stop you.

 

[mrip541]

And here I was feeling like Chuckie at the end of Good Will Hunting.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Hey can say any word you want.  CNN Is no more than a quick reference to whatever liberal media you consume.   You can say you don't watch or take in CNN, that doesn't at all convince me that you aren't completely biased by  your media.  It's obvious in your posts...But as far as words you want to use, use them.    I'm not trying to stop you.

Yeah, I don't need to convince you.   Feel free to call me out if I use some lib biased link, or say that I watched something of the sort.   

I've been pretty honest about where I get my news and how much I try to dig for right and left while sticking to "decent" reporting websites.   I know it's shocking to some people around here, but there are folks that try to consume good news and info but still end up on different ends of the political spectrum.   Just because somebody is left or right doesn't mean they got there because they just consumed biased info from that position.  

 

[sho nuff]

Yeah, I don't need to convince you.   Feel free to call me out if I use some lib biased link, or say that I watched something of the sort.   

I've been pretty honest about where I get my news and how much I try to dig for right and left while sticking to "decent" reporting websites.   I know it's shocking to some people around here, but there are folks that try to consume good news and info but still end up on different ends of the political spectrum.   Just because somebody is left or right doesn't mean they got there because they just consumed biased info from that position.  

Yeah...its just so odd of an attempted slam these days.  We see most of the liberal posters posting from sources all over the spectrum.  From the other side...we see pjmedia, GatewayPundit, RedState....  

I didn't shift left over the last 20 years because of the media I read.

 

[quick-hands]

It’s because you won’t change your opinion that I seek to force you to be vaccinated. Since I can’t convince you through reason and logic, I see no other choice. I would prefer it were otherwise. 

Do as I say.  OR ELSE I'LL MAKE YOU FOR YOUR OWN GOOD, WHY CANT YOU SEE IT?!?!   

how do your new Jack Boots fit?