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60 Percent Of Americans Will Have An Election Denier On The Ballot This Fall (1 Viewer)

NorvilleBarnes

Footballguy
Wait, are we using "election denier" like we use "anti vaxxer" in that we don't really mean that but it's an easy way to insult/vilify political opponents? Or are we using "election denier" like it's really bad for the other side to question an outcome but totally OK when our side does it?
No. Election Denier = somebody who still does not accept the results of the election and believe Trump won.

That is not nearly the same thing as people initially questioning the results of an election, especially close elections like this.
@NorvilleBarnes and @BladeRunner do you accept the results of the 2020 election and do you view Biden as your legitimate president?

It is extremely sad that this question needs to be asked
No and No.
OK, then you are the election denier we are talking about.
Of course. Did anyone honestly think you guys were applying the term equally?
 

quick-hands

Footballguy
It’s almost like the thread Joe started doesn’t exist and we don’t have 22 year history of the left calling elections illegitimate.
the interesting thing and what this board is still recovering from is the trump thread that went on for 2 years and none of the fbg overseers noticed till 2 weeks after a similar biden thread started.

I m just watching for next election let's see what happens
 

FairWarning

Footballguy
Wait, are we using "election denier" like we use "anti vaxxer" in that we don't really mean that but it's an easy way to insult/vilify political opponents? Or are we using "election denier" like it's really bad for the other side to question an outcome but totally OK when our side does it?
No. Election Denier = somebody who still does not accept the results of the election and believe Trump won.

That is not nearly the same thing as people initially questioning the results of an election, especially close elections like this.
@NorvilleBarnes and @BladeRunner do you accept the results of the 2020 election and do you view Biden as your legitimate president?

It is extremely sad that this question needs to be asked
I remember all the posters in 2016-17 saying "Not my President". Sad
I wonder if that woman screaming in DC ever lost her voice?
 

KarmaPolice

Footballguy
This is where clarifying questions and not assuming things are probably not used enough, and all our experiences are valid and true.

Hell, we have all talked about how we can't define things like racism and woman anymore. Is it really a surprise there isn't a consistent use of an odd phrase like "not my President"? or have seen it used in different ways? Then add on our own biases.

So maybe next time you encounter a person who uses that phrase, ask them what they mean by that. Maybe you will be surprised by the results one way or another.
 

Godsbrother

Footballguy
Do people see or hear people use "not my president" in reference to Biden, or was that more an anti-Trump phenomenon?
I've seen that bumper sticker on a number of cars.

And the F Biden and all of the Brandon stuff is pretty much saying the same thing, aren't they?
 

Joe Bryant

Guide
Staff member
Do people see or hear people use "not my president" in reference to Biden, or was that more an anti-Trump phenomenon?

Maybe it's just where I live but I've seen that consistently with every president since George W Bush was elected.

Where it seemed to shift was in 2016 with Trump and we started to see the move from "not my president" to "RESIST".

That was my experience.
 

KarmaPolice

Footballguy
Do people see or hear people use "not my president" in reference to Biden, or was that more an anti-Trump phenomenon?
I've seen that bumper sticker on a number of cars.

And the F Biden and all of the Brandon stuff is pretty much saying the same thing, aren't they?
Interesting, thanks- I've never noticed that on a car.

Yes, you are right- that is a very similar sentiment as F Biden, when it's in the context I encountered it, and not attached to any sort of denial of the results of the election.
 

The Commish

Footballguy
This thread is a pretty good illustration of how ###### up and "personalized" politics have gotten in this country. I have never, in my life, thought of a single individual as "my" politician. I hear people say that and I instantly think "WTF is wrong with you?? Politics should NOT be that large of a factor in your personal identity. No wonder we're going to ####".

Judgemental on my part to be sure, but there are some serious problems with that world view IMO.
 

KarmaPolice

Footballguy
Do people see or hear people use "not my president" in reference to Biden, or was that more an anti-Trump phenomenon?

Maybe it's just where I live but I've seen that consistently with every president since George W Bush was elected.

Where it seemed to shift was in 2016 with Trump and we started to see the move from "not my president" to "RESIST".

That was my experience.
Also interesting, thanks. I remember sentiment of embarrassment about Bush, and of course Obama took heat. But I don't remember strong sentiment in the way of that person is not our leader and doesn't deserve our respect until recently.

Also take it in context, as I feel I am in the younger demographic for this board, and have 0 online presence besides here, so I probably miss a lot of these examples.
 

KarmaPolice

Footballguy
This thread is a pretty good illustration of how ###### up and "personalized" politics have gotten in this country. I have never, in my life, thought of a single individual as "my" politician. I hear people say that and I instantly think "WTF is wrong with you?? Politics should NOT be that large of a factor in your personal identity. No wonder we're going to ####".

Judgemental on my part to be sure, but there are some serious problems with that world view IMO.
I hear what you are saying. The propping up of any politician, celebrity, whatever I always find weird. I don't know these people.

What I am more getting is what I thought was still a general respect for the office of the POTUS and what it represents. I think that has eroded a lot in the last 6 years.
 

The Commish

Footballguy
This thread is a pretty good illustration of how ###### up and "personalized" politics have gotten in this country. I have never, in my life, thought of a single individual as "my" politician. I hear people say that and I instantly think "WTF is wrong with you?? Politics should NOT be that large of a factor in your personal identity. No wonder we're going to ####".

Judgemental on my part to be sure, but there are some serious problems with that world view IMO.
I hear what you are saying. The propping up of any politician, celebrity, whatever I always find weird. I don't know these people.

What I am more getting is what I thought was still a general respect for the office of the POTUS and what it represents. I think that has eroded a lot in the last 6 years.
I look at THIS from a different POV too. Most in this country really don't have any idea how our country stacks up against other countries in meaningful comparisons. We just don't have that sort of self awareness. As a result, it's my belief we think way more highly of ourselves than we should. So in conversations like this, I look at the US from an external POV because most looking from the internal POV aren't going to agree with me because we are starting from such different POVs. There are a TON of stereotypes out there in the world of the US. Some are good, and a great many are bad and have been pretty false for a long time. In my view, the last 6 years have closed that gap on the false things by a large margin. So while I understood that many of those stereotypes simply weren't true those years back, there are now real world examples of them being true.
 

KarmaPolice

Footballguy
This thread is going to age like milk after the mid terms.
It will be pretty gross if anywhere near 60 percent of election deniers win. Do you think they will question the legitimacy of their own victories? Or is fraud only present in deniers losses?
I mean, that's the rub, right? These people only think the elections are rigged when it's not the outcome they want.
I am sure their victory would be 100% legit. :rolleyes:
 

JIslander

Footballguy

the moops

Footballguy
This thread is going to age like milk after the mid terms.
How so?
Because Democrats are going to lose some races and will go back to doing what Democrats do when they lose races.
***** and complain but in the end concede once any legal challenges have been exhausted?

Your attempt to compare what any democrat has done and what the former president and his loyal followers are continuing to do is extremely weak sauce.
 

NorvilleBarnes

Footballguy
This thread is going to age like milk after the mid terms.
How so?
Because Democrats are going to lose some races and will go back to doing what Democrats do when they lose races.
***** and complain but in the end concede once any legal challenges have been exhausted?
I mean, it's not like they're not on record or there's no video or anything.
 

the moops

Footballguy
This thread is going to age like milk after the mid terms.
How so?
Because Democrats are going to lose some races and will go back to doing what Democrats do when they lose races.
***** and complain but in the end concede once any legal challenges have been exhausted?
I mean, it's not like they're not on record or there's no video or anything.
I don't know what this means.
 

KarmaPolice

Footballguy
Do people see or hear people use "not my president" in reference to Biden, or was that more an anti-Trump phenomenon?
Anti-Trump Mainly. Here is the origin of it - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_My_Presidents_Day

I’m sure the FJB spawned from it.
Don't remember that, thanks for the link. Also in the is a part to add to the debate as to what these people were thinking:

The marches were mostly coordinated through Facebook. Organizers of the protest stated that although Trump was the president, they wanted to show that he did not represent their values.

I'm against it either way, just thought it was interesting.
 

FairWarning

Footballguy
Do people see or hear people use "not my president" in reference to Biden, or was that more an anti-Trump phenomenon?
Anti-Trump Mainly. Here is the origin of it - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_My_Presidents_Day

I’m sure the FJB spawned from it.
Don't remember that, thanks for the link. Also in the is a part to add to the debate as to what these people were thinking:

The marches were mostly coordinated through Facebook. Organizers of the protest stated that although Trump was the president, they wanted to show that he did not represent their values.

I'm against it either way, just thought it was interesting.
I don’t remember it either. It does show the power of SM though.
 

rustycolts

Footballguy
This thread is a pretty good illustration of how ###### up and "personalized" politics have gotten in this country. I have never, in my life, thought of a single individual as "my" politician. I hear people say that and I instantly think "WTF is wrong with you?? Politics should NOT be that large of a factor in your personal identity. No wonder we're going to ####".

Judgemental on my part to be sure, but there are some serious problems with that world view IMO.
I hear what you are saying. The propping up of any politician, celebrity, whatever I always find weird. I don't know these people.

What I am more getting is what I thought was still a general respect for the office of the POTUS and what it represents. I think that has eroded a lot in the last 6 years.
I look at THIS from a different POV too. Most in this country really don't have any idea how our country stacks up against other countries in meaningful comparisons. We just don't have that sort of self awareness. As a result, it's my belief we think way more highly of ourselves than we should. So in conversations like this, I look at the US from an external POV because most looking from the internal POV aren't going to agree with me because we are starting from such different POVs. There are a TON of stereotypes out there in the world of the US. Some are good, and a great many are bad and have been pretty false for a long time. In my view, the last 6 years have closed that gap on the false things by a large margin. So while I understood that many of those stereotypes simply weren't true those years back, there are now real world examples of them being true.
Have you ever read The Ugly American? It kind of covers other countries perceptions of us.
 

BladeRunner

Footballguy
Lo and behold, looks like at least 100% of Americans had an election denier on their ballot LAST election:


Oh, my, my, my.

Apologies if someone posted this previously. Seems like a HUGE miss on those pointing fingers and accusing the right of being election deniers.
 

The Commish

Footballguy
This thread is a pretty good illustration of how ###### up and "personalized" politics have gotten in this country. I have never, in my life, thought of a single individual as "my" politician. I hear people say that and I instantly think "WTF is wrong with you?? Politics should NOT be that large of a factor in your personal identity. No wonder we're going to ####".

Judgemental on my part to be sure, but there are some serious problems with that world view IMO.
I hear what you are saying. The propping up of any politician, celebrity, whatever I always find weird. I don't know these people.

What I am more getting is what I thought was still a general respect for the office of the POTUS and what it represents. I think that has eroded a lot in the last 6 years.
I look at THIS from a different POV too. Most in this country really don't have any idea how our country stacks up against other countries in meaningful comparisons. We just don't have that sort of self awareness. As a result, it's my belief we think way more highly of ourselves than we should. So in conversations like this, I look at the US from an external POV because most looking from the internal POV aren't going to agree with me because we are starting from such different POVs. There are a TON of stereotypes out there in the world of the US. Some are good, and a great many are bad and have been pretty false for a long time. In my view, the last 6 years have closed that gap on the false things by a large margin. So while I understood that many of those stereotypes simply weren't true those years back, there are now real world examples of them being true.
Have you ever read The Ugly American? It kind of covers other countries perceptions of us.
Can't say that I have. Is it worth it? I have a pretty good idea from my travels and travels of my friends etc, but it really is mostly Europe and a little bit of Asia, Canada, Australia and the Americas
 

rustycolts

Footballguy
This thread is a pretty good illustration of how ###### up and "personalized" politics have gotten in this country. I have never, in my life, thought of a single individual as "my" politician. I hear people say that and I instantly think "WTF is wrong with you?? Politics should NOT be that large of a factor in your personal identity. No wonder we're going to ####".

Judgemental on my part to be sure, but there are some serious problems with that world view IMO.
I hear what you are saying. The propping up of any politician, celebrity, whatever I always find weird. I don't know these people.

What I am more getting is what I thought was still a general respect for the office of the POTUS and what it represents. I think that has eroded a lot in the last 6 years.
I look at THIS from a different POV too. Most in this country really don't have any idea how our country stacks up against other countries in meaningful comparisons. We just don't have that sort of self awareness. As a result, it's my belief we think way more highly of ourselves than we should. So in conversations like this, I look at the US from an external POV because most looking from the internal POV aren't going to agree with me because we are starting from such different POVs. There are a TON of stereotypes out there in the world of the US. Some are good, and a great many are bad and have been pretty false for a long time. In my view, the last 6 years have closed that gap on the false things by a large margin. So while I understood that many of those stereotypes simply weren't true those years back, there are now real world examples of them being true.
Have you ever read The Ugly American? It kind of covers other countries perceptions of us.
Can't say that I have. Is it worth it? I have a pretty good idea from my travels and travels of my friends etc, but it really is mostly Europe and a little bit of Asia, Canada, Australia and the Americas
Well worth it. Very good book it's a little dated though. JFK was very impressed with this book I think it had a tremendous impact on him. Probably one of the best political novels ever written.
 

The Commish

Footballguy
This thread is a pretty good illustration of how ###### up and "personalized" politics have gotten in this country. I have never, in my life, thought of a single individual as "my" politician. I hear people say that and I instantly think "WTF is wrong with you?? Politics should NOT be that large of a factor in your personal identity. No wonder we're going to ####".

Judgemental on my part to be sure, but there are some serious problems with that world view IMO.
I hear what you are saying. The propping up of any politician, celebrity, whatever I always find weird. I don't know these people.

What I am more getting is what I thought was still a general respect for the office of the POTUS and what it represents. I think that has eroded a lot in the last 6 years.
I look at THIS from a different POV too. Most in this country really don't have any idea how our country stacks up against other countries in meaningful comparisons. We just don't have that sort of self awareness. As a result, it's my belief we think way more highly of ourselves than we should. So in conversations like this, I look at the US from an external POV because most looking from the internal POV aren't going to agree with me because we are starting from such different POVs. There are a TON of stereotypes out there in the world of the US. Some are good, and a great many are bad and have been pretty false for a long time. In my view, the last 6 years have closed that gap on the false things by a large margin. So while I understood that many of those stereotypes simply weren't true those years back, there are now real world examples of them being true.
Have you ever read The Ugly American? It kind of covers other countries perceptions of us.
Can't say that I have. Is it worth it? I have a pretty good idea from my travels and travels of my friends etc, but it really is mostly Europe and a little bit of Asia, Canada, Australia and the Americas
Well worth it. Very good book it's a little dated though. JFK was very impressed with this book I think it had a tremendous impact on him. Probably one of the best political novels ever written.
Ill check it out then GB. If anything it will be intrresting to see if/what has changed between then and now.
 

lazyike

Footballguy
Run the video of the moderator asking Demings whether she will accept the election results and Demings saying she won’t accept the results if she loses. Politicians often fail to answer the question asked immediately . She seems like a solid distinguished person….just doesn’t seem like her. Fox News reporting and spin is not something I am going to consider legit. Could have happened but I need more than that.
 

The Commish

Footballguy

This is the debate....go to 46 minute mark to see their comments on elections. I don't know what fox news is saying was said, but you can hear it there with your own ears. I heard no denial from either person during the debate, but I might have missed it.
 

KarmaPolice

Footballguy

This is the debate....go to 46 minute mark to see their comments on elections. I don't know what fox news is saying was said, but you can hear it there with your own ears. I heard no denial from either person during the debate, but I might have missed it.
Thanks I watched a bit - about Abortion and the part you highlighted.

It confirms what I was saying with snot and others, I am still suprised people get a ton out of these. A lot of not answering questions and "but my opponent" type responses.
 

The Commish

Footballguy

This is the debate....go to 46 minute mark to see their comments on elections. I don't know what fox news is saying was said, but you can hear it there with your own ears. I heard no denial from either person during the debate, but I might have missed it.
Thanks I watched a bit - about Abortion and the part you highlighted.

It confirms what I was saying with snot and others, I am still suprised people get a ton out of these. A lot of not answering questions and "but my opponent" type responses.
Yeah...only reason it was on my TV was because we were eating dinner and it came on after the news. It was pretty comical so I left it on. It was a bunch of Val attacking Marko for not showing up and his voting record when he does vs Marko casting onto Val all the things others on her "side" has said. She did that a little bit, but it was his goto. Complete waste of time. Debates are pointless.
 

KarmaPolice

Footballguy

This is the debate....go to 46 minute mark to see their comments on elections. I don't know what fox news is saying was said, but you can hear it there with your own ears. I heard no denial from either person during the debate, but I might have missed it.
Thanks I watched a bit - about Abortion and the part you highlighted.

It confirms what I was saying with snot and others, I am still suprised people get a ton out of these. A lot of not answering questions and "but my opponent" type responses.
Yeah...only reason it was on my TV was because we were eating dinner and it came on after the news. It was pretty comical so I left it on. It was a bunch of Val attacking Marko for not showing up and his voting record when he does vs Marko casting onto Val all the things others on her "side" has said. She did that a little bit, but it was his goto. Complete waste of time. Debates are pointless.
Should have been easy for each to answer that question. It's telling when one had to be asked a couple times, because he started with we have good voting laws in FL and the other didn't really answer one way or another, just went into a story about her family.

I would fully expect Fox to lean into the "she didn't answer" narrative, but it wasn't lost in me that Rubio answered that he would accept the results .... but with the qualifier that it's because he will win.
 

Phil Elliott

Footballguy

This is the debate....go to 46 minute mark to see their comments on elections. I don't know what fox news is saying was said, but you can hear it there with your own ears. I heard no denial from either person during the debate, but I might have missed it.
Rubio said he never denied any election, talked about the voting ID requirement and when pressed said he would accept the 2022 results "if he wins" and then says he will accept the results regardless who wins.
Deming talked about her parents voting in every election but didn't say anything about accepting the election results.
The point by Fox was she didn't say she would accept the results.
It seems the assumption is election deniers are only Trumpers. As Rubio mentioned they are on both sides (as he mentioned Abrams) and I raised the question about Deming because she wouldn't state it. And the moderator only pressed Rubio for an answer.
 
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:deadbevo:

Footballguy
Without reading the thread.. sorry not worth it:

We all realize these politicians aren't ACTUALLY election deniers.. right? They don't believe what they say. Which makes them no different than every other politician ever.
 

The Commish

Footballguy

This is the debate....go to 46 minute mark to see their comments on elections. I don't know what fox news is saying was said, but you can hear it there with your own ears. I heard no denial from either person during the debate, but I might have missed it.
Rubio said he never denied any election, talked about the voting ID requirement and when pressed said he would accept the 2022 results "if he wins" and then says he will accept the results regardless who wins.
Deming talked about her parents voting in every election but didn't say she anything about accepting the election results.
The point by Fox was she didn't say she would accept the results.
It seems the assumption is election deniers are only Trumpers. As Rubio mentioned they are on both sides (as he mentioned Abrams) and I raised the question about Deming because she wouldn't state it. And the moderator only pressed Rubio for an answer.
Sounds about right for Fox. :shrug:
 

NorvilleBarnes

Footballguy
This thread is going to age like milk after the mid terms.
How so?
Because Democrats are going to lose some races and will go back to doing what Democrats do when they lose races.
***** and complain but in the end concede once any legal challenges have been exhausted?
I mean, it's not like they're not on record or there's no video or anything.
I don't know what this means.
Sigh. This thread is based on article that is ONLY looking at Republicans and ONLY looking at the 2020 election. But we know that there are ALSO Democrats who question election outcomes and we know that there are other elections that have been questioned other than 2020. We know this because there is video evidence.
 

Philo Beddoe

Footballguy
This thread is going to age like milk after the mid terms.
How so?
Because Democrats are going to lose some races and will go back to doing what Democrats do when they lose races.
***** and complain but in the end concede once any legal challenges have been exhausted?
I mean, it's not like they're not on record or there's no video or anything.
I don't know what this means.
Sigh. This thread is based on article that is ONLY looking at Republicans and ONLY looking at the 2020 election. But we know that there are ALSO Democrats who question election outcomes and we know that there are other elections that have been questioned other than 2020. We know this because there is video evidence.
Who are they kidding? Hypothetically (because she’s awful) if Stacey Abrams were to become the 2024 Democratic nominee for the presidential race, these people would be calling her the best candidate ever. They don’t care they just want to call Republicans terrible people.
 

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