SotT Dynasty Rankings Wide Receivers (2009) (1 Viewer)

[loose circuits]

the reason his price tag is so well is because he's had 2 pretty damn good seasons with a mess around him. If they ever get firing on all cylinders, he can be special. They have shown signs of lifeBryant has got it done with Garcia and Griese. I like Josh Johnson's potential and Luke McCown's for that matter...whoever the QB is, they'll still be running Gruden's offenseWe'll have to agree to disagree on Marshall. I think his talent/situation justifies the hype. Walter will always find a job, he knows how to get open

I see that guys with ridiculously long rap sheets and high idiot factors don't dissuade you in any way.

I'd take the rap sheet over age any day. Father time will catch-up, but bad criminal records may or may not resurface

 

[loose circuits]

I'd like to hear some thoughts on Vincent Jackson. He's steadily improved each year, stays healthy, and has a franchise quarterback. I love his production this year, but can he really be a WR1 or 2? He numbers seem to rely on the big play too much, a la Santonio Holmes. A few times when I watched the Chargers, it looked like Malcolm Floyd had more potential to be a consistent 5-6 catch guy. Has VJax hit his ceiling or can he be a stalwart top 20 guy for a few years?

He is seriously talented and there is no reason to at least expect similar production which is a top 20 WR. A solid WR2. For some reason, people think he disappointed them because he didn't tear it up in his 1st few years. He was a DII guy with outstanding speed/size. Well now he's a NFL receiver with outstanding speed/size and some acrobatic skills to go get the ball out of the air. His targets are only increasing and Gates seems to be on the decline. factor in a suddenly average run game you have the emergence of Vincent Jackson. The upside is even there for him to improve when you consider he's still maturing.

 

[loose circuits]

Will he leave the Bungles any time soon? That's the $64,000 question.

I think that's what it is all about. You have to believe that the Bengals would rather turn the leaf to Caldwell, Henry, Urrutia, Simpson, etc...If the Eagles can get the right value, desperation could cause them to make a move. Don't forget they tried to get Randy. If Chad Johnson goes to the Eagles, where does that put him in the rankings? I think you certainly have to assume a trade could be a distinct possibility. They need to clean house and start new. Give the young guys a chance. I threw in Urrutia because Simpson has not been performing up to expectations. I was impressed with Urrutia in 2006 and certainly has the talent. Many considered Caldwell near the top of this crop of rookie WR's, so why wouldn't you get what you can for Chad? Him being there is not working out for anyone and that cap hit will be lowered another year into the deal.

 

[Burning Sensation]

Will he leave the Bungles any time soon? That's the $64,000 question.

I think that's what it is all about. You have to believe that the Bengals would rather turn the leaf to Caldwell, Henry, Urrutia, Simpson, etc...If the Eagles can get the right value, desperation could cause them to make a move. Don't forget they tried to get Randy. If Chad Johnson goes to the Eagles, where does that put him in the rankings? I think you certainly have to assume a trade could be a distinct possibility. They need to clean house and start new. Give the young guys a chance. I threw in Urrutia because Simpson has not been performing up to expectations. I was impressed with Urrutia in 2006 and certainly has the talent. Many considered Caldwell near the top of this crop of rookie WR's, so why wouldn't you get what you can for Chad? Him being there is not working out for anyone and that cap hit will be lowered another year into the deal.

They did?

 

[thriftyrocker]

I agree 85 is a big risk right now, but to see him below Lance Moore and Anthony Gonzalez is sketchy to me. Gonzalez hasn't shown he is anything more than a #3 WR, and has similar numbers to Chad this year. I wouldn't be surprised if Indy signs someone else to compliment Wayne. His value is still 90+% opportunity right now, and really he's had many chances to claim it. Lance Moore's value is in a nosedive too. Having two good pass catching RBs and two TEs severely limits his time on the field, let alone his chances. Another comparison is Holmes. Why does Holmes get a pass on "top 5" potential when he's also had a disappointing year with high knucklehead quotient? It's more likely 85 finds some motivation going to a new team than Holmes decides to be consistent staying in Pittsburgh, IMO, and I own both of them.

 

[valhallan]

This worries me about Chad:

Brown expects Johnson to play out contractPublished Tue Dec 2 3:52:53 p.m. ET 2008(KFFL) Geoff Hobson, of Bengals.com, reports Cincinnati Bengals president Mike Brown said he expects WR Chad Johnson to fulfill his contract to the 2011 option year.

And didn't the Skins offer two 1st rounders for him last off-season? Methinks he may never get out of Cinci.

 

[loose circuits]

Will he leave the Bungles any time soon? That's the $64,000 question.

I think that's what it is all about. You have to believe that the Bengals would rather turn the leaf to Caldwell, Henry, Urrutia, Simpson, etc...If the Eagles can get the right value, desperation could cause them to make a move. Don't forget they tried to get Randy. If Chad Johnson goes to the Eagles, where does that put him in the rankings? I think you certainly have to assume a trade could be a distinct possibility. They need to clean house and start new. Give the young guys a chance. I threw in Urrutia because Simpson has not been performing up to expectations. I was impressed with Urrutia in 2006 and certainly has the talent. Many considered Caldwell near the top of this crop of rookie WR's, so why wouldn't you get what you can for Chad? Him being there is not working out for anyone and that cap hit will be lowered another year into the deal.

They did?

notice, the near the top. I'm talking just outside of the top 5 and maybe even cracking it depending on what pre draft site you were at. After the combine, he increased his value quite a bit. He ran a 4.37 40 at the combine, was also a top performer in broad jump, 3 cone, and 2nd in 20 yd shuttle, with decent size 6'1 200. In addition, he set the Florida record for receptions. That includes all the guys that played during the Fun N Gun years..He was good value in the late 3rd if I remember correctly. Nobody really knew how the WR situation would unfold.

Either way, they drafted 3 WR's and re-signed Henry. Those personnel decisions indicate they are moving on in the WR department. Factor in Chad's disappointing season, and I think he is as good as gone. The writing seems to be on the wall based off the decisions the organization has made. I think it's more likely that TJ is back with a franchise tag, than Chad...

 

[loose circuits]

This worries me about Chad:

Brown expects Johnson to play out contractPublished Tue Dec 2 3:52:53 p.m. ET 2008(KFFL) Geoff Hobson, of Bengals.com, reports Cincinnati Bengals president Mike Brown said he expects WR Chad Johnson to fulfill his contract to the 2011 option year.

And didn't the Skins offer two 1st rounders for him last off-season? Methinks he may never get out of Cinci.

If he were to come out and say that he is going to trade him in the offseason, it would kill Chad's value. They have to pretend they like it. In this situation, I think actions speak louder than words. That's just me though

 

[Burning Sensation]

Will he leave the Bungles any time soon? That's the $64,000 question.

I think that's what it is all about. You have to believe that the Bengals would rather turn the leaf to Caldwell, Henry, Urrutia, Simpson, etc...If the Eagles can get the right value, desperation could cause them to make a move. Don't forget they tried to get Randy. If Chad Johnson goes to the Eagles, where does that put him in the rankings? I think you certainly have to assume a trade could be a distinct possibility. They need to clean house and start new. Give the young guys a chance. I threw in Urrutia because Simpson has not been performing up to expectations. I was impressed with Urrutia in 2006 and certainly has the talent. Many considered Caldwell near the top of this crop of rookie WR's, so why wouldn't you get what you can for Chad? Him being there is not working out for anyone and that cap hit will be lowered another year into the deal.

They did?

notice, the near the top. I'm talking just outside of the top 5 and maybe even cracking it depending on what pre draft site you were at. After the combine, he increased his value quite a bit. He ran a 4.37 40 at the combine, was also a top performer in broad jump, 3 cone, and 2nd in 20 yd shuttle, with decent size 6'1 200. In addition, he set the Florida record for receptions. That includes all the guys that played during the Fun N Gun years..He was good value in the late 3rd if I remember correctly. Nobody really knew how the WR situation would unfold.

Either way, they drafted 3 WR's and re-signed Henry. Those personnel decisions indicate they are moving on in the WR department. Factor in Chad's disappointing season, and I think he is as good as gone. The writing seems to be on the wall based off the decisions the organization has made. I think it's more likely that TJ is back with a franchise tag, than Chad...

I agree the Bengals should move on without Chad Johnson. I just dont think Caldwell was ever considered a top 5-8 WR in this draft. I still like Simpson better than him, although neither has done much to impress me so far.

 

[coyote5]

I actually don't own Ocho on any of my money league dynasty teams. In the one league where I did own him, I traded him straight up for Lynch in the second half of last season. I don't have anything invested in the guy. At the same time, I owned him from 2003-2006 and he was $$$ in the bank. I've heard the stuff about inconsistency and it doesn't carry a lot of sway with me. Dig deeper into his track record and you'll see that he was the picture of consistency in his first few breakout seasons. The bottom line for me is that you have a potential WR1-WR2 type talent at a discount cost. This is eerily similar to the Randy Moss and Santana Moss situations the last two seasons. You have a proven talent who's suffering through a nightmare season for understandable reasons and suddenly no one thinks he can play. I think it's an obvious buy low, but we'll have to wait and see.

Here are CJ's #'s for the past 3 years - data is week 1 of 06 to present. 1st column is fantasy points (PPR), 2nd column is fantasy rank among receivers, Classic CJ is easy to see - abysmal performace aside from a couple weeks of enormous games sprinkled in that were enough to tease owners.6.213.81.16.49.97.313.83.13837.312.99.110.13.83.25.315.732.913.85.38.311.75.14.97.38.628.3967.86262.23.72.98.84.35.711.24.415.73.44.57.93.3See, the problem is you got off his wagon at the start of his decline. Even in 2006 his performance was horribly spotty. Are those #'s you want from your #1 receiver? Heck, a #2? The point is, this didn't just start in 2008.edit - sorry about the data, column formatting doesn't work well here, the spaces get eliminated, making the data hard to read. The column above is fantasy points starting with week 1 of 2006.

 

[EBF]

Here are CJ's #'s for the past 3 years - data is week 1 of 06 to present. 1st column is fantasy points (PPR), 2nd column is fantasy rank among receivers, Classic CJ is easy to see - abysmal performace aside from a couple weeks of enormous games sprinkled in that were enough to tease owners.

I've already had this argument on these boards. I'm not really interested in rehashing it.

Let's look at the "inconsistent" Chad Johnson:2005- Played in 16 games- Had 50 or more receiving yards in 15 games- Had 100+ yards and/or a TD catch in 8 games- Had 5 or more catches in 12 games2004- Played in 16 games- Had 50 or more receiving yards in 12 games- Had 100+ yards and/or a TD catch in 7 games- Had 5 or more catches in 12 games2003- Played in 16 games- Had 50 or more receiving yards in 14 games- Had 100+ yards and/or a TD catch in 9 games- Had 5 or more catches in 10 gamesSo over a three year span:- 85% chance of 50 yards or more- 50% chance of 100+ yards and/or a TD- 71% chance of 5 or more catchesHis production has become more sporadic in recent years (probably due to Housh and Henry) and he's having a horrible 2008 season, but he's perfectly capable of being very consistent. He's going to be a huge value play this offseason if he continues to struggle and animosity towards him continues to grow. His shoulder will heal, he'll be traded to a new team, and he'll have a renaissance in 2009.

No one is saying you should go out and draft Chad Johnson in the first round of your draft. Given where he'll probably fall in dynasty and redraft leagues, he should be a tremendous value.

 

[az_prof]

Chad Johnson is this year's version of the Oakland Raiders version of Randy Moss. A lot of factors have conspired to keep his production down well below what we've come to expect from him. Once he gets healthy and gets an NFL caliber QB, I would expect him to return to his 1,200+ yard form. He's not old and he doesn't have bad knees. He'll be one of my top buy lows in redrafts and dynasties next year. I know he's a nutcase, but it doesn't matter. He's a great player. Great players get endless opportunities. Some team will get Chad under control and trot him out there like they do with TO, Moss, Bryant, etc.

Chad Johnson is a great player, but he's no Randy Moss. . . . And Randy Moss wouldn't have put up 23 TDs in any old offense. He had to go to the one perfect team upon leaving NFL hades. What are the chances Mike Brown sends ol' Ocho to the one perfect team?

He doesn't have to send him to the perfect team--almost any team would be better for Ocho than the 08 Bungles.

 

[loose circuits]

Will he leave the Bungles any time soon? That's the $64,000 question.

I think that's what it is all about. You have to believe that the Bengals would rather turn the leaf to Caldwell, Henry, Urrutia, Simpson, etc...If the Eagles can get the right value, desperation could cause them to make a move. Don't forget they tried to get Randy. If Chad Johnson goes to the Eagles, where does that put him in the rankings? I think you certainly have to assume a trade could be a distinct possibility. They need to clean house and start new. Give the young guys a chance. I threw in Urrutia because Simpson has not been performing up to expectations. I was impressed with Urrutia in 2006 and certainly has the talent. Many considered Caldwell near the top of this crop of rookie WR's, so why wouldn't you get what you can for Chad? Him being there is not working out for anyone and that cap hit will be lowered another year into the deal.

They did?

notice, the near the top. I'm talking just outside of the top 5 and maybe even cracking it depending on what pre draft site you were at. After the combine, he increased his value quite a bit. He ran a 4.37 40 at the combine, was also a top performer in broad jump, 3 cone, and 2nd in 20 yd shuttle, with decent size 6'1 200. In addition, he set the Florida record for receptions. That includes all the guys that played during the Fun N Gun years..He was good value in the late 3rd if I remember correctly. Nobody really knew how the WR situation would unfold.

Either way, they drafted 3 WR's and re-signed Henry. Those personnel decisions indicate they are moving on in the WR department. Factor in Chad's disappointing season, and I think he is as good as gone. The writing seems to be on the wall based off the decisions the organization has made. I think it's more likely that TJ is back with a franchise tag, than Chad...

I agree the Bengals should move on without Chad Johnson. I just dont think Caldwell was ever considered a top 5-8 WR in this draft. I still like Simpson better than him, although neither has done much to impress me so far.

Simpson has been very disappointing in practice. They say he's clueless

 

[Burning Sensation]

Will he leave the Bungles any time soon? That's the $64,000 question.

I think that's what it is all about. You have to believe that the Bengals would rather turn the leaf to Caldwell, Henry, Urrutia, Simpson, etc...If the Eagles can get the right value, desperation could cause them to make a move. Don't forget they tried to get Randy. If Chad Johnson goes to the Eagles, where does that put him in the rankings? I think you certainly have to assume a trade could be a distinct possibility. They need to clean house and start new. Give the young guys a chance. I threw in Urrutia because Simpson has not been performing up to expectations. I was impressed with Urrutia in 2006 and certainly has the talent. Many considered Caldwell near the top of this crop of rookie WR's, so why wouldn't you get what you can for Chad? Him being there is not working out for anyone and that cap hit will be lowered another year into the deal.

They did?

notice, the near the top. I'm talking just outside of the top 5 and maybe even cracking it depending on what pre draft site you were at. After the combine, he increased his value quite a bit. He ran a 4.37 40 at the combine, was also a top performer in broad jump, 3 cone, and 2nd in 20 yd shuttle, with decent size 6'1 200. In addition, he set the Florida record for receptions. That includes all the guys that played during the Fun N Gun years..He was good value in the late 3rd if I remember correctly. Nobody really knew how the WR situation would unfold.

Either way, they drafted 3 WR's and re-signed Henry. Those personnel decisions indicate they are moving on in the WR department. Factor in Chad's disappointing season, and I think he is as good as gone. The writing seems to be on the wall based off the decisions the organization has made. I think it's more likely that TJ is back with a franchise tag, than Chad...

I agree the Bengals should move on without Chad Johnson. I just dont think Caldwell was ever considered a top 5-8 WR in this draft. I still like Simpson better than him, although neither has done much to impress me so far.

Simpson has been very disappointing in practice. They say he's clueless

They said he was raw coming out of college, and it would take him some time to develop. I havnt heard anyone call him clueless, link?

 

[valhallan]

This worries me about Chad:

Brown expects Johnson to play out contractPublished Tue Dec 2 3:52:53 p.m. ET 2008(KFFL) Geoff Hobson, of Bengals.com, reports Cincinnati Bengals president Mike Brown said he expects WR Chad Johnson to fulfill his contract to the 2011 option year.

And didn't the Skins offer two 1st rounders for him last off-season? Methinks he may never get out of Cinci.

If he were to come out and say that he is going to trade him in the offseason, it would kill Chad's value. They have to pretend they like it. In this situation, I think actions speak louder than words. That's just me though

Sure it's good business to make a product seem more valuable to you than it is, but I have a hard time associating the Bengals with shrewd personnel tactics.

 

[loose circuits]

Will he leave the Bungles any time soon? That's the $64,000 question.

I think that's what it is all about. You have to believe that the Bengals would rather turn the leaf to Caldwell, Henry, Urrutia, Simpson, etc...If the Eagles can get the right value, desperation could cause them to make a move. Don't forget they tried to get Randy. If Chad Johnson goes to the Eagles, where does that put him in the rankings? I think you certainly have to assume a trade could be a distinct possibility. They need to clean house and start new. Give the young guys a chance. I threw in Urrutia because Simpson has not been performing up to expectations. I was impressed with Urrutia in 2006 and certainly has the talent. Many considered Caldwell near the top of this crop of rookie WR's, so why wouldn't you get what you can for Chad? Him being there is not working out for anyone and that cap hit will be lowered another year into the deal.

They did?

notice, the near the top. I'm talking just outside of the top 5 and maybe even cracking it depending on what pre draft site you were at. After the combine, he increased his value quite a bit. He ran a 4.37 40 at the combine, was also a top performer in broad jump, 3 cone, and 2nd in 20 yd shuttle, with decent size 6'1 200. In addition, he set the Florida record for receptions. That includes all the guys that played during the Fun N Gun years..He was good value in the late 3rd if I remember correctly. Nobody really knew how the WR situation would unfold.

Either way, they drafted 3 WR's and re-signed Henry. Those personnel decisions indicate they are moving on in the WR department. Factor in Chad's disappointing season, and I think he is as good as gone. The writing seems to be on the wall based off the decisions the organization has made. I think it's more likely that TJ is back with a franchise tag, than Chad...

I agree the Bengals should move on without Chad Johnson. I just dont think Caldwell was ever considered a top 5-8 WR in this draft. I still like Simpson better than him, although neither has done much to impress me so far.

Simpson has been very disappointing in practice. They say he's clueless

They said he was raw coming out of college, and it would take him some time to develop. I havnt heard anyone call him clueless, link?

i was paraphrasing, rotoworld said:

At some point, the small school excuse doesn't work anymore. Simpson has exhibited poor route running and hasn't even stayed healthy in practice. It doesn't help that the Bengals pegged Simpson at the same position as Chad Ocho Cinco. He has a very hard time gaining playing experience.

he could develop, but he has an uphill battle. Here's a decent article on him. I think his value could be tied to whether Chad stays or not. Either way, if he can't stay healthy Caldwell would likely benefit. This article clearly states that Caldwell is the more NFL ready WR, but it is written to be kind to Jerome Simpson.http://www.bengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=7378

 

[FUBAR]

Will he leave the Bungles any time soon? That's the $64,000 question.

I think that's what it is all about. You have to believe that the Bengals would rather turn the leaf to Caldwell, Henry, Urrutia, Simpson, etc...If the Eagles can get the right value, desperation could cause them to make a move. Don't forget they tried to get Randy. If Chad Johnson goes to the Eagles, where does that put him in the rankings? I think you certainly have to assume a trade could be a distinct possibility. They need to clean house and start new. Give the young guys a chance. I threw in Urrutia because Simpson has not been performing up to expectations. I was impressed with Urrutia in 2006 and certainly has the talent. Many considered Caldwell near the top of this crop of rookie WR's, so why wouldn't you get what you can for Chad? Him being there is not working out for anyone and that cap hit will be lowered another year into the deal.

They did?

notice, the near the top. I'm talking just outside of the top 5 and maybe even cracking it depending on what pre draft site you were at. After the combine, he increased his value quite a bit. He ran a 4.37 40 at the combine, was also a top performer in broad jump, 3 cone, and 2nd in 20 yd shuttle, with decent size 6'1 200. In addition, he set the Florida record for receptions. That includes all the guys that played during the Fun N Gun years..He was good value in the late 3rd if I remember correctly. Nobody really knew how the WR situation would unfold.

Either way, they drafted 3 WR's and re-signed Henry. Those personnel decisions indicate they are moving on in the WR department. Factor in Chad's disappointing season, and I think he is as good as gone. The writing seems to be on the wall based off the decisions the organization has made. I think it's more likely that TJ is back with a franchise tag, than Chad...

Are you sure you're not confusing him with Simpson? Simpson was drafted as the 6th WR, Caldwell the 15th. Granted, there was a wide tier of WRs, but I don't recall anyone saying Caldwell was top 5, or close to it. I actually think he could be decent, but that doesn't mean he was a top 10 WR in last year's draft.

 

[Max Power]

54. Devin Hester, CHI | Age: 26.8 | Value Score: 19The talent was always there, and now it appears that he's taken the step to legit wide receiver. He's gone from stash-and-hope to actual weekly production.

I think a case can be made to put Hester in the 25-30 range. He has really looked good lately. Forte will keep the chains moving and Hester will likely see his targets increase as he gets more comfortable at WR.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

54. Devin Hester, CHI | Age: 26.8 | Value Score: 19The talent was always there, and now it appears that he's taken the step to legit wide receiver. He's gone from stash-and-hope to actual weekly production.

I think a case can be made to put Hester in the 25-30 range. He has really looked good lately. Forte will keep the chains moving and Hester will likely see his targets increase as he gets more comfortable at WR.

I agree. But that's the thing about the 25-30 range. After the Top-20, a case can be made for about 50 WRs to be in the next tier.

 

[loose circuits]

Will he leave the Bungles any time soon? That's the $64,000 question.

I think that's what it is all about. You have to believe that the Bengals would rather turn the leaf to Caldwell, Henry, Urrutia, Simpson, etc...If the Eagles can get the right value, desperation could cause them to make a move. Don't forget they tried to get Randy. If Chad Johnson goes to the Eagles, where does that put him in the rankings? I think you certainly have to assume a trade could be a distinct possibility. They need to clean house and start new. Give the young guys a chance. I threw in Urrutia because Simpson has not been performing up to expectations. I was impressed with Urrutia in 2006 and certainly has the talent. Many considered Caldwell near the top of this crop of rookie WR's, so why wouldn't you get what you can for Chad? Him being there is not working out for anyone and that cap hit will be lowered another year into the deal.

They did?

notice, the near the top. I'm talking just outside of the top 5 and maybe even cracking it depending on what pre draft site you were at. After the combine, he increased his value quite a bit. He ran a 4.37 40 at the combine, was also a top performer in broad jump, 3 cone, and 2nd in 20 yd shuttle, with decent size 6'1 200. In addition, he set the Florida record for receptions. That includes all the guys that played during the Fun N Gun years..He was good value in the late 3rd if I remember correctly. Nobody really knew how the WR situation would unfold.

Either way, they drafted 3 WR's and re-signed Henry. Those personnel decisions indicate they are moving on in the WR department. Factor in Chad's disappointing season, and I think he is as good as gone. The writing seems to be on the wall based off the decisions the organization has made. I think it's more likely that TJ is back with a franchise tag, than Chad...

Are you sure you're not confusing him with Simpson? Simpson was drafted as the 6th WR, Caldwell the 15th. Granted, there was a wide tier of WRs, but I don't recall anyone saying Caldwell was top 5, or close to it. I actually think he could be decent, but that doesn't mean he was a top 10 WR in last year's draft.

i'm not confusing them at all. I'm talking about before the combine going to sites like this one: http://cfn.scout.com/2/730881.htmlthis one hypes him as well, but doesn't have them ranked (notice the pic): http://www.nfl-draft-site.com/2008/02/wide...l-scouting.html

I believe USA Today had him around 5, http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nf...4-players_N.htm

the huddle talks about him going in the 2nd http://www.thehuddle.com/x8/nfl_draft/play...re-caldwell.php

do I need to find more?

 

[coyote5]

Here are CJ's #'s for the past 3 years - data is week 1 of 06 to present. 1st column is fantasy points (PPR), 2nd column is fantasy rank among receivers, Classic CJ is easy to see - abysmal performace aside from a couple weeks of enormous games sprinkled in that were enough to tease owners.

I've already had this argument on these boards. I'm not really interested in rehashing it.

Let's look at the "inconsistent" Chad Johnson:2005- Played in 16 games- Had 50 or more receiving yards in 15 games- Had 100+ yards and/or a TD catch in 8 games- Had 5 or more catches in 12 games2004- Played in 16 games- Had 50 or more receiving yards in 12 games- Had 100+ yards and/or a TD catch in 7 games- Had 5 or more catches in 12 games2003- Played in 16 games- Had 50 or more receiving yards in 14 games- Had 100+ yards and/or a TD catch in 9 games- Had 5 or more catches in 10 gamesSo over a three year span:- 85% chance of 50 yards or more- 50% chance of 100+ yards and/or a TD- 71% chance of 5 or more catchesHis production has become more sporadic in recent years (probably due to Housh and Henry) and he's having a horrible 2008 season, but he's perfectly capable of being very consistent. He's going to be a huge value play this offseason if he continues to struggle and animosity towards him continues to grow. His shoulder will heal, he'll be traded to a new team, and he'll have a renaissance in 2009.

No one is saying you should go out and draft Chad Johnson in the first round of your draft. Given where he'll probably fall in dynasty and redraft leagues, he should be a tremendous value.

You'll have to excuse me if I'm not exactly blown away by your reasoning which uses 3-5 year old stats to support your position.

 

[loose circuits]

I think Dwayne Bowe belongs in the top tier. Once Gonzo is gone, his #'s are only going to improve. He already gets double teamed. The Chiefs could have potential

Antonio Bryant is also too low. He's the real deal as long as he stays on the field and model citizen of late outside of chomping off at Deion/Emmitt

Brandon Marshall should be in the top 5

Calvin is #1. What he's done with what's around him is amazing. Not too many WR's who's #'s would improve on every other team in the NFL. He sees constant double, triple, and quadruple coverage but beats it a few times a game. I own both Calvin and Andre, I would sell Andre a lot faster than Calvin.

Based on what? Marshall is becoming one of the most overhyped dynasty WR's. He is definately talented, but he has been living of his huge game in week 2.Antonio Bryant has looked great this season, but he has alot more to prove before i would put him any higher.

Marshall had a pretty good week 14 as well. As Eddie Royal, Cutler, and Scheffler mature around him things will only get better. They have also rebuilt the offensive line successfully and Cutler absolutely loves throwing to him. Not to mention he's probably one of the top 5 WR's talent wise. If Denver can get that bell cow RB as well...I'd take his upside over any of the 30+ year olds

not to mention, don't forget when looking at end of year results that marshall missed 2 games due to suspension. I think he's top 5 points per game in most formats involving ppr.

 

[FUBAR]

Will he leave the Bungles any time soon? That's the $64,000 question.

I think that's what it is all about. You have to believe that the Bengals would rather turn the leaf to Caldwell, Henry, Urrutia, Simpson, etc...If the Eagles can get the right value, desperation could cause them to make a move. Don't forget they tried to get Randy. If Chad Johnson goes to the Eagles, where does that put him in the rankings? I think you certainly have to assume a trade could be a distinct possibility. They need to clean house and start new. Give the young guys a chance. I threw in Urrutia because Simpson has not been performing up to expectations. I was impressed with Urrutia in 2006 and certainly has the talent. Many considered Caldwell near the top of this crop of rookie WR's, so why wouldn't you get what you can for Chad? Him being there is not working out for anyone and that cap hit will be lowered another year into the deal.

They did?

notice, the near the top. I'm talking just outside of the top 5 and maybe even cracking it depending on what pre draft site you were at. After the combine, he increased his value quite a bit. He ran a 4.37 40 at the combine, was also a top performer in broad jump, 3 cone, and 2nd in 20 yd shuttle, with decent size 6'1 200. In addition, he set the Florida record for receptions. That includes all the guys that played during the Fun N Gun years..He was good value in the late 3rd if I remember correctly. Nobody really knew how the WR situation would unfold.

Either way, they drafted 3 WR's and re-signed Henry. Those personnel decisions indicate they are moving on in the WR department. Factor in Chad's disappointing season, and I think he is as good as gone. The writing seems to be on the wall based off the decisions the organization has made. I think it's more likely that TJ is back with a franchise tag, than Chad...

Are you sure you're not confusing him with Simpson? Simpson was drafted as the 6th WR, Caldwell the 15th. Granted, there was a wide tier of WRs, but I don't recall anyone saying Caldwell was top 5, or close to it. I actually think he could be decent, but that doesn't mean he was a top 10 WR in last year's draft.

i'm not confusing them at all. I'm talking about before the combine going to sites like this one: http://cfn.scout.com/2/730881.htmlthis one hypes him as well, but doesn't have them ranked (notice the pic): http://www.nfl-draft-site.com/2008/02/wide...l-scouting.html

I believe USA Today had him around 5, http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nf...4-players_N.htm

the huddle talks about him going in the 2nd http://www.thehuddle.com/x8/nfl_draft/play...re-caldwell.php

do I need to find more?

that just goes to show how bad some sites are I suppose you could say that shows how close this group was, but I just didn't remember the major sites talking about Simpson among the top 5. You could probably find a couple sites with almost any WR in the top 5-10, being highly touted, or being good values. I thought he could be a good sleeper pick, but I missed those sites that said he'd be better than Royal, Jackson, Avery, etc.

 

[loose circuits]

Will he leave the Bungles any time soon? That's the $64,000 question.

I think that's what it is all about. You have to believe that the Bengals would rather turn the leaf to Caldwell, Henry, Urrutia, Simpson, etc...If the Eagles can get the right value, desperation could cause them to make a move. Don't forget they tried to get Randy. If Chad Johnson goes to the Eagles, where does that put him in the rankings? I think you certainly have to assume a trade could be a distinct possibility. They need to clean house and start new. Give the young guys a chance. I threw in Urrutia because Simpson has not been performing up to expectations. I was impressed with Urrutia in 2006 and certainly has the talent. Many considered Caldwell near the top of this crop of rookie WR's, so why wouldn't you get what you can for Chad? Him being there is not working out for anyone and that cap hit will be lowered another year into the deal.

They did?

notice, the near the top. I'm talking just outside of the top 5 and maybe even cracking it depending on what pre draft site you were at. After the combine, he increased his value quite a bit. He ran a 4.37 40 at the combine, was also a top performer in broad jump, 3 cone, and 2nd in 20 yd shuttle, with decent size 6'1 200. In addition, he set the Florida record for receptions. That includes all the guys that played during the Fun N Gun years..He was good value in the late 3rd if I remember correctly. Nobody really knew how the WR situation would unfold.

Either way, they drafted 3 WR's and re-signed Henry. Those personnel decisions indicate they are moving on in the WR department. Factor in Chad's disappointing season, and I think he is as good as gone. The writing seems to be on the wall based off the decisions the organization has made. I think it's more likely that TJ is back with a franchise tag, than Chad...

Are you sure you're not confusing him with Simpson? Simpson was drafted as the 6th WR, Caldwell the 15th. Granted, there was a wide tier of WRs, but I don't recall anyone saying Caldwell was top 5, or close to it. I actually think he could be decent, but that doesn't mean he was a top 10 WR in last year's draft.

i'm not confusing them at all. I'm talking about before the combine going to sites like this one: http://cfn.scout.com/2/730881.htmlthis one hypes him as well, but doesn't have them ranked (notice the pic): http://www.nfl-draft-site.com/2008/02/wide...l-scouting.html

I believe USA Today had him around 5, http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nf...4-players_N.htm

the huddle talks about him going in the 2nd http://www.thehuddle.com/x8/nfl_draft/play...re-caldwell.php

do I need to find more?

that just goes to show how bad some sites are I suppose you could say that shows how close this group was, but I just didn't remember the major sites talking about Simpson among the top 5. You could probably find a couple sites with almost any WR in the top 5-10, being highly touted, or being good values. I thought he could be a good sleeper pick, but I missed those sites that said he'd be better than Royal, Jackson, Avery, etc.

there were more than that. I am not sure why it is so surprising to you, he had arguably one of the best combines of anyone not named Chris Johnson. I think NFLDC was one and there were a couple others as well. He had a track record in a tough conference. I think he'll play that TJ Houz role once TJ moves on which could happen as soon as next season.

 

[FUBAR]

Will he leave the Bungles any time soon? That's the $64,000 question.

I think that's what it is all about. You have to believe that the Bengals would rather turn the leaf to Caldwell, Henry, Urrutia, Simpson, etc...If the Eagles can get the right value, desperation could cause them to make a move. Don't forget they tried to get Randy. If Chad Johnson goes to the Eagles, where does that put him in the rankings? I think you certainly have to assume a trade could be a distinct possibility. They need to clean house and start new. Give the young guys a chance. I threw in Urrutia because Simpson has not been performing up to expectations. I was impressed with Urrutia in 2006 and certainly has the talent. Many considered Caldwell near the top of this crop of rookie WR's, so why wouldn't you get what you can for Chad? Him being there is not working out for anyone and that cap hit will be lowered another year into the deal.

They did?

notice, the near the top. I'm talking just outside of the top 5 and maybe even cracking it depending on what pre draft site you were at. After the combine, he increased his value quite a bit. He ran a 4.37 40 at the combine, was also a top performer in broad jump, 3 cone, and 2nd in 20 yd shuttle, with decent size 6'1 200. In addition, he set the Florida record for receptions. That includes all the guys that played during the Fun N Gun years..He was good value in the late 3rd if I remember correctly. Nobody really knew how the WR situation would unfold.

Either way, they drafted 3 WR's and re-signed Henry. Those personnel decisions indicate they are moving on in the WR department. Factor in Chad's disappointing season, and I think he is as good as gone. The writing seems to be on the wall based off the decisions the organization has made. I think it's more likely that TJ is back with a franchise tag, than Chad...

Are you sure you're not confusing him with Simpson? Simpson was drafted as the 6th WR, Caldwell the 15th. Granted, there was a wide tier of WRs, but I don't recall anyone saying Caldwell was top 5, or close to it. I actually think he could be decent, but that doesn't mean he was a top 10 WR in last year's draft.

i'm not confusing them at all. I'm talking about before the combine going to sites like this one: http://cfn.scout.com/2/730881.htmlthis one hypes him as well, but doesn't have them ranked (notice the pic): http://www.nfl-draft-site.com/2008/02/wide...l-scouting.html

I believe USA Today had him around 5, http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nf...4-players_N.htm

the huddle talks about him going in the 2nd http://www.thehuddle.com/x8/nfl_draft/play...re-caldwell.php

do I need to find more?

that just goes to show how bad some sites are I suppose you could say that shows how close this group was, but I just didn't remember the major sites talking about Simpson among the top 5. You could probably find a couple sites with almost any WR in the top 5-10, being highly touted, or being good values. I thought he could be a good sleeper pick, but I missed those sites that said he'd be better than Royal, Jackson, Avery, etc.

there were more than that. I am not sure why it is so surprising to you, he had arguably one of the best combines of anyone not named Chris Johnson. I think NFLDC was one and there were a couple others as well. He had a track record in a tough conference. I think he'll play that TJ Houz role once TJ moves on which could happen as soon as next season.

It's not that it's so surprising, it's that I don't remember reading those comments and he was drafted as the 15th WR. I do remember reading that Simpson had elite potential and should be top 5-10. From one of your links:

Florida's Andre Caldwell, Missouri's William Franklin, and Alabama's D.J. Hall will be regulars on someone's roster, and they're likely going around the fifth round.

also:

Most overrated prospect: DeSean Jackson, California - If you want a field-stretcher who can draw attention away from a go-to receiver, Jackson's the guy, but he'll be overpriced where he'll go. Would you drop a 17th pick on Donte Stallworth, because that's who Jackson will become.

I'd say they're a little off.