[speculation/rumor] Carr to be traded soon (1 Viewer)

[Buckna]

Actually, you are both right and both wrong.

It was a joint decision.

 

[Biabreakable]

Saint Louis fan here and I know when Martz was getting interviewd for the Houston job last year I thought he was going there because of the man-love he showed for David Carr. I think if there is any possibility to the Lions getting him for a cheap price they will pony up for him. I know Kitna had a very good year there last year but the talent between these 2 players isn't very close. I assume the Texans are hoping to get either Quinn in the draft or Plummer out of the peace corp .

I wonder what Martz see's in Carr? Carr's biggest fault seems to be his indecisiveness which is somthing that is important to have in a Martz run offense. So maybe he thinks Carr's decision making is fixable?I think the best thing for Carr would be to go to a team that would let him sit for a year and play backup. Get his bearings and confidence back slowly behind a veteran then see if he can turn things around later.Carr has been hammered so much in his career I think it has been very bad for his development. He could be a totaly different player in a new system that provides him good pass protection and perhaps makes his decision making process easier.

 

[Patoons]

Carr has been hammered so much in his career I think it has been very bad for his development. He could be a totaly different player in a new system that provides him good pass protection and perhaps makes his decision making process easier.

Trade for Carr and draft Thomas? That may be a start.

 

[Biabreakable]

Carr has been hammered so much in his career I think it has been very bad for his development. He could be a totaly different player in a new system that provides him good pass protection and perhaps makes his decision making process easier.

Trade for Carr and draft Thomas? That may be a start.

I did like blackjacks suggestion of the Lions going after Carr who could then be Kitna's understudy while he got his bearings. That seems like a best case scenario for Carr to me.He could possibly be decent with other Qb needing teams like the Vikings who have good pass blockers however I think he needs a break from the pressure of being the starter for awhile also. So I would expect more mixed results from Carr in that type of situation compared to having more optimism in Carr if he got to be understudy for a year.If Carr were to go to the Raiders I see more of the same problems and it could lead to the end of his career.

 

[FunkyPlutos]

I have been exceedingly critical of Carr here. I think he has some SERIOUS issues that may never be fixed. That said, if I needed a QB this offseason (Oakland, Detroit, Minnesota, Cleveland) and was picking relatively high in the draft, I'd gladly trade a 3rd for Carr and use my draft picks on some other players. In other words, I don't care much for Carr, but I can't say with much confidence that I think Quinn or Russell are going to be ever be any better then Carr.

Carr isn't fixable. That said, Russell is no guarantee and who knows with Quinn. He's all over the board as far as a bust to a pro bowl QB. But the fact is Carr is at best a backup and will never produce a winning season in the NFL. He just is not any good. He's a dink and dunk Joey Harrington. He's never won a game that mattered. Even looking at some of the games the team won with him at QB, the stats are comical adn he shouldn't even be credited with a win. Thus his current W-L record is inflated.2002: 1 of hsi wins: 3-10 for 33 yards...sorry no credit deserved.2003: 2 wins....his combined stats for those games: 4-9 for 37 yards. Those aren't wins.and of course, how can anyone forget 2006: Loss after loss and FINALLY Kubiak says enough is enough, you aren't allowed to throw the ball. 3 wins out of 5 games, 1 TD, 5 INT's. Games won by the RB's which included Ron Dayne of all people. Now how is it a team with Ron Dayne running the ball can win without a viable QB? It seems that Texans mgmt. is questioning that and making what appears to be a GREAT move.Gawd, this guy sucks even more than I realized.

Ladies and Gentlemen, I give to you someone who didn't witness the ineptitude of the thing that we called Viking QB'ing last season!! We would take Carr in a heartbeat.

 

[Bri]

Carr has been hammered so much in his career I think it has been very bad for his development. He could be a totaly different player in a new system that provides him good pass protection and perhaps makes his decision making process easier.

Trade for Carr and draft Thomas? That may be a start.

I did like blackjacks suggestion of the Lions going after Carr who could then be Kitna's understudy while he got his bearings. That seems like a best case scenario for Carr to me.

They have the QBs they want I think. McCown fills the role you mention and isn't Orlovsky the young inexperienced 3rd stringer? I don't see a QB move for them.

 

[Bri]

Didn't Carr get a WOW that's alot contract last summer?

That would surely hurt his "tradeability" in the whole trade process.

ETA

The second, the deal for which Houston opted, included the $8 million bonus, which bought back three seasons, at base salaries of $5.25 million each in 2006 and 2007 and of $6 million in 2008.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2325442

 

[Colin Dowling]

I believe a new team could re-nego on the contract, for example paying more now to lessen the blow over 4-5 years.

 

[dparker713]

Didn't Carr get a WOW that's alot contract last summer?

That would surely hurt his "tradeability" in the whole trade process.

ETA

The second, the deal for which Houston opted, included the $8 million bonus, which bought back three seasons, at base salaries of $5.25 million each in 2006 and 2007 and of $6 million in 2008.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2325442

Pretty sure that was a roster bonus and counted entirely against Houston's cap last year. I also think that if he's traded his signing bonus would be eaten by Houston, so the team that gets him would only need to deal with his base salaries.

 

[Bri]

I believe a new team could re-nego on the contract, for example paying more now to lessen the blow over 4-5 years.

5.25 in 07 and 6 mil in 08 (plus however they spread out the bonus)doesn't leave much wiggle room.Re-nego is going to equal less here I'd figure.ITYM add a couple years to that and well, if I'm Carr...skip that! just cut me. What's he gain then? especially since contracts aren't guaranteed.Why not just get cut so you can pick and choose where ya go? He can't block a trade but he sure doesn't have to rengotiate his deal with the new team which might have the same result.*****I still think Gmen. He can beat out the hefty lefty and be Eli's backup. Eli has several games where I could definitely see Coughlin putting his backup in. Somehow this guy's gotta play but yet have time to sit and "digest" things to develop. Some team's gotta baby him for a while and I think they could do that.The reason why-Giants get a backup QB for a change.IF IF IF He turns out to be good, they could trade he or Eli then for something decent in return.I'd expect some to say he'd come in and just make more mistakes. I don't think so though. A "don't do worse than the starter" role takes away all pressure which is exactly what this guy needs IMO. I'd bet in that spot, if he throws INTs it's "eh it's just not our day" and people don't point the finger. You'll be hard pressed to google and find any backup QB getting blamed. It's a different animal.*****If the Browns add to their line(and they seem to be) then they could try him out for a spin too. I'm not a Frye fan

 

[Bri]

Pretty sure that was a roster bonus and counted entirely against Houston's cap last year.

Could be, I don't know. Doesn't quite fit for me though. He signed that early february and there was talk he might get cut and they'd draft Young. Roster bonus would be in March so "in a month if you're still with us we'll give you 8 mil" doesn't quite fit.BTW see this?

Early in his career, Carr reached sufficient performance levels to cancel those three years, and technically, his contract would have expired on March 3, the first day of free agency.

Texans set the bar kinda low didn't they?

 

[dparker713]

Pretty sure that was a roster bonus and counted entirely against Houston's cap last year.

Could be, I don't know. Doesn't quite fit for me though. He signed that early february and there was talk he might get cut and they'd draft Young. Roster bonus would be in March so "in a month if you're still with us we'll give you 8 mil" doesn't quite fit.BTW see this?

Early in his career, Carr reached sufficient performance levels to cancel those three years, and technically, his contract would have expired on March 3, the first day of free agency.

Texans set the bar kinda low didn't they?

It wasn't another deal as far as I remember, it was an option which they picked up or escalator or some such. Fairly certain they wouldn't have extended him just to have his base salary this year be 5.25 mil.

 

[Bri]

Pretty sure that was a roster bonus and counted entirely against Houston's cap last year.

Could be, I don't know. Doesn't quite fit for me though. He signed that early february and there was talk he might get cut and they'd draft Young. Roster bonus would be in March so "in a month if you're still with us we'll give you 8 mil" doesn't quite fit.BTW see this?

Early in his career, Carr reached sufficient performance levels to cancel those three years, and technically, his contract would have expired on March 3, the first day of free agency.

Texans set the bar kinda low didn't they?

It wasn't another deal as far as I remember, it was an option which they picked up or escalator or some such. Fairly certain they wouldn't have extended him just to have his base salary this year be 5.25 mil.

It was an extension mentioned in the original contract where one of two options could be picked

 

[Biabreakable]

Carr has been hammered so much in his career I think it has been very bad for his development. He could be a totaly different player in a new system that provides him good pass protection and perhaps makes his decision making process easier.

Trade for Carr and draft Thomas? That may be a start.

I did like blackjacks suggestion of the Lions going after Carr who could then be Kitna's understudy while he got his bearings. That seems like a best case scenario for Carr to me.

They have the QBs they want I think. McCown fills the role you mention and isn't Orlovsky the young inexperienced 3rd stringer? I don't see a QB move for them.

I think you are probobly right here that the Lions may have the mix of Qbs they want allready on thier roster and will see no need to trade for Carr (even if Martz does really like Carr and was not just blowing smoke for the interview).My post was more speculative in how I percieve Carr and how specific situations may effect his career moving forward. Considering this I do think the Lions would be a great place for Carr. Not really talking about if the Lions want him.Perhaps the Ravens would be another team that would qualify as a decent place for Carr to understudy a year with some promising weapons to work with in 2008. Who else?More than likely Carr will end up in a situation that makes him a starter again in 2007 for better or for worse as I have allready stated my opinion about.I do think the Raiders would be bad for him as the Oline has not improved that I can see. We should be able to expect the coaching to improve at least so that is a glimer of hope for players who start for the Raiders. But it is not nearly enough for a player like Carr who needs some help at this point in his career to turn things around.

 

[dparker713]

Pretty sure that was a roster bonus and counted entirely against Houston's cap last year.

Could be, I don't know. Doesn't quite fit for me though. He signed that early february and there was talk he might get cut and they'd draft Young. Roster bonus would be in March so "in a month if you're still with us we'll give you 8 mil" doesn't quite fit.BTW see this?

Early in his career, Carr reached sufficient performance levels to cancel those three years, and technically, his contract would have expired on March 3, the first day of free agency.

Texans set the bar kinda low didn't they?

It wasn't another deal as far as I remember, it was an option which they picked up or escalator or some such. Fairly certain they wouldn't have extended him just to have his base salary this year be 5.25 mil.

It was an extension mentioned in the original contract where one of two options could be picked

Then Houston had to eat the bonus last year. The only bonuses that can be pro-rated are signing bonuses and that bonus would be part of the original contract.

 

[GregR_2]

The last 3 years of his contract were voided by meeting performance levels such as playing time. The Texans had the right to buy back those years, either 2 of them, or 3 of them, by paying a roster bonus and then having set salaries for the years bought back.

The bonus for the 3 year option, however, gets paid in two installments. They paid $4m last year and have to pay another $4m on March 15th.

 

[Couch Potato]

- local radio station is buzzing a little about it.

- some ditz on cold pizza said they had a source that Carr is gone.

- official texans msg board had his image removed from the banner.

any idea where he might be heading? I like Oakland(would free them up more for CJ) and Minny, as it would make the odds greater that Quinn falls to Houston.

Someone had mentioned that Denver should have just traded Plummer for Carr since it was evident that Plummer wanted to go there and the Texans wanted Jake. Well...The Denver Post reports an NFL spokesman said the league still hasn't received retirement papers from former Broncos QB Jake Plummer. The filing of the papers is a formality, and those close to Plummer, 32, maintain he still plans to retire. Plummer's rights were traded to Tampa Bay last Saturday.

I don't know if Tampa Bay needs another QB in the mix but the deal with Denver consisted of a fourth round pick to Denver if Jake reports to Tampa Bay by March, I believe, but only a seventh round pick if he doesn't report by March. So any deal of Plummer to Houston for Carr would not take place untill after this month and then Tampa Bay would get Carr, err, that is if they still are looking for more QBs and if they even want Carr in the first place. But if they do then Tampa Bay in effect would only be trading a seventh round pick for David Carr instead of a fourth rounder.

Many loose threads would be wound together if the above should happen where Plummer would end up starting in Houston and Carr would be in the, Simms/Garcia/Carr mix in Tampa Bay.

Rotoworld:

Jake Plummer-QB- Buccaneers Mar. 9 - 9:07 pm et

Jake Plummer told the Associated Press that he's done with football.

"You can know by the looking in my face and hearing my words that I am retiring from the NFL," Plummer said. "At 32 years old, I'm running away from the game. Not in fear or fright, but health-wise. I have a lot to look forward to in my life. I'm ready to move on...and try some new challenges."

 

[GregR_2]

The last 3 years of his contract were voided by meeting performance levels such as playing time. The Texans had the right to buy back those years, either 2 of them, or 3 of them, by paying a roster bonus and then having set salaries for the years bought back.The bonus for the 3 year option, however, gets paid in two installments. They paid $4m last year and have to pay another $4m on March 15th.

After doing more investigation, I believe the final $4m payment gets prorated over the final 2 years and that is it for him as far as bonus, everything else has already hit the cap.

 

[Liquid Tension]

For the cheap/resonable price he'll go for, I think just about every team is a possibility. A former #1 pick who's still young with talent will interest a lot of people. Teams with recent good young QB's might not, because they wouldn't won't to send the wrong message to the current guy (SF, Tenn, AZ, SD..etc).I see Clev, Oak, GB, KC, Miami as very good possibilities

I was doing some research on QB's and got into looking at real value rather than fantasy value and was focused on QB's who threw short compared to QB's who throw down field (higher risk). Anyway my data showed me that Pennington throws very short consistently (his weak arm explains that), but the guy who really stood out was David Carr. Amazingly, 83% of his pass attempts were either behind the LOS or 0-10 yard from scrimmage. I am not sure of the reason, but that does not stretch the defense at all.

 

[SSOG]

Laugh all you want but I was right in my analysis. The fact is, Carr sucks, will never have a winning season EVER, and will continue his horrible display of ineptitude for a couple more years...for some other team.

A-freaking-men. It's about time someone had the mental faculties to recognize such a blatantly obvious truth, and the balls to share it with the world. You may think I'm joking, but hard-hitting, fact-based insight such as this from the truly informed team homers is the reason I keep coming back to this site. This is the sort of insight that I'd never get on the CBS Sportsline forums. You, sir, are a paragon of the fantasy football community.Also, Peyton Manning is a choker who will never win a Superbowl.

 

[Buckna]

Almost completely unrelated, but I was out at the Houston Livestock Show and Rodeo for the Grand Champion Steer sale and Kubiak was there (got to meet him and shake his hand! )

File this as speculation on my end, because even though the GM and agents and other advisory people could have been working on this over the weekend, I would think Kube's would be directly involved in the negotiations if this were true. So I doubt any deal got done yesterday at the very least.

 

[Aaronstory]

Laugh all you want but I was right in my analysis. The fact is, Carr sucks, will never have a winning season EVER, and will continue his horrible display of ineptitude for a couple more years...for some other team.

A-freaking-men. It's about time someone had the mental faculties to recognize such a blatantly obvious truth, and the balls to share it with the world. You may think I'm joking, but hard-hitting, fact-based insight such as this from the truly informed team homers is the reason I keep coming back to this site. This is the sort of insight that I'd never get on the CBS Sportsline forums. You, sir, are a paragon of the fantasy football community.Also, Peyton Manning is a choker who will never win a Superbowl.

 

[Liquid Tension]

Laugh all you want but I was right in my analysis. The fact is, Carr sucks, will never have a winning season EVER, and will continue his horrible display of ineptitude for a couple more years...for some other team.

A-freaking-men. It's about time someone had the mental faculties to recognize such a blatantly obvious truth, and the balls to share it with the world. You may think I'm joking, but hard-hitting, fact-based insight such as this from the truly informed team homers is the reason I keep coming back to this site. This is the sort of insight that I'd never get on the CBS Sportsline forums. You, sir, are a paragon of the fantasy football community.Also, Peyton Manning is a choker who will never win a Superbowl.

You forgot the sarcasm icon That being said SSOG, don't you think this stat is telling?

Amazingly, 83% of his pass attempts were either behind the LOS or 0-10 yard from scrimmage. I am not sure of the reason, but that does not stretch the defense at all.

 

[Donnybrook]

The last 3 years of his contract were voided by meeting performance levels such as playing time. The Texans had the right to buy back those years, either 2 of them, or 3 of them, by paying a roster bonus and then having set salaries for the years bought back.The bonus for the 3 year option, however, gets paid in two installments. They paid $4m last year and have to pay another $4m on March 15th.

After doing more investigation, I believe the final $4m payment gets prorated over the final 2 years and that is it for him as far as bonus, everything else has already hit the cap.

So is there any advantage for the Texans to trade him before March 15th? I gather that the Texans are on the hook for the bonus whether or not he is traded before or after that date.

 

[greenroom]

Laugh all you want but I was right in my analysis. The fact is, Carr sucks, will never have a winning season EVER, and will continue his horrible display of ineptitude for a couple more years...for some other team.

A-freaking-men. It's about time someone had the mental faculties to recognize such a blatantly obvious truth, and the balls to share it with the world. You may think I'm joking, but hard-hitting, fact-based insight such as this from the truly informed team homers is the reason I keep coming back to this site. This is the sort of insight that I'd never get on the CBS Sportsline forums. You, sir, are a paragon of the fantasy football community.Also, Peyton Manning is a choker who will never win a Superbowl.

You forgot the sarcasm icon That being said SSOG, don't you think this stat is telling?

Amazingly, 83% of his pass attempts were either behind the LOS or 0-10 yard from scrimmage. I am not sure of the reason, but that does not stretch the defense at all.

Yes that Stat tells me that the OLINE is really bad and the QB did not have any time to be able to sit in the pocket. Add the fact that there is not a running back on the Texans roster that you have to respect. And that equals a race to Carr or who ever is the QB for the Texans with no time to go deep.

 

[redman]

Has there ever been a first round of a draft that had three QB's get off to worse starts over their first five seasons than the 2002 draft, with Carr, Harrington and Ramsey?

I truly don't know what to make of Carr. I think he and Ramsey got shellshocked by getting pounded early in their careers, and I know with Ramsey and suspect with Carr that that led to a lot of ball patting, happy feet and nervous throwing. It's hard to know what they can do to bounce back from that.

 

[dparker713]

Laugh all you want but I was right in my analysis. The fact is, Carr sucks, will never have a winning season EVER, and will continue his horrible display of ineptitude for a couple more years...for some other team.

A-freaking-men. It's about time someone had the mental faculties to recognize such a blatantly obvious truth, and the balls to share it with the world. You may think I'm joking, but hard-hitting, fact-based insight such as this from the truly informed team homers is the reason I keep coming back to this site. This is the sort of insight that I'd never get on the CBS Sportsline forums. You, sir, are a paragon of the fantasy football community.Also, Peyton Manning is a choker who will never win a Superbowl.

You forgot the sarcasm icon That being said SSOG, don't you think this stat is telling?

Amazingly, 83% of his pass attempts were either behind the LOS or 0-10 yard from scrimmage. I am not sure of the reason, but that does not stretch the defense at all.

Yes that Stat tells me that the OLINE is really bad and the QB did not have any time to be able to sit in the pocket. Add the fact that there is not a running back on the Texans roster that you have to respect. And that equals a race to Carr or who ever is the QB for the Texans with no time to go deep.

While not good, the line wasn't nearly as bad as it has been in the past. If Spencer comes back from injury, the Texans may finally have an average Oline. So while you can put part of the blame on the line and part on the play calling, you also need to acknowledge that Carr just either didn't look downfield or couldn't find anyone when he did. Thats in stark contrast to what he did in 04, and despite the high percentage this year he's clearly regressed.

 

[BigRed]

If he gets traded to OAK that's just too cruel and I think he must've been Attila the Hun in another life or something.

 

[cstu]

Has there ever been a first round of a draft that had three QB's get off to worse starts over their first five seasons than the 2002 draft, with Carr, Harrington and Ramsey? :(I truly don't know what to make of Carr. I think he and Ramsey got shellshocked by getting pounded early in their careers, and I know with Ramsey and suspect with Carr that that led to a lot of ball patting, happy feet and nervous throwing. It's hard to know what they can do to bounce back from that.

1 1 Vinny Testaverde QB Miami1 6 Kelly Stouffer QB Colorado State1 13 Chris Miller QB Oregon

 

[Ministry of Pain]

What was the definition of "soon" in the title? Seems to be no takers...maybe as we get closer to the draft.

 

[BigRed]

1 1 Vinny Testaverde QB Miami1 6 Kelly Stouffer QB Colorado State1 13 Chris Miller QB Oregon

Nah not even close. Vinny had had a mixed career but has had great success at times at least, and Miller was generally good "when healthy."Stouffer did however just plain blow.

 

[redman]

1 1 Vinny Testaverde QB Miami1 6 Kelly Stouffer QB Colorado State1 13 Chris Miller QB Oregon

Nah not even close. Vinny had had a mixed career but has had great success at times at least, and Miller was generally good "when healthy."Stouffer did however just plain blow.

I agree.

 

[cstu]

1 1 Vinny Testaverde QB Miami1 6 Kelly Stouffer QB Colorado State1 13 Chris Miller QB Oregon

Nah not even close. Vinny had had a mixed career but has had great success at times at least, and Miller was generally good "when healthy."Stouffer did however just plain blow.

5 seasons into their career I think the 1987 class sucked worse than this one. Miller did make the Pro Bowl his 5th year, but other than that they were unspectacular.

Testeverde| 1987 tam | 6 | 71 165 43.0 1081 6.6 5 6 | 13 50 1 || 1988 tam | 15 | 222 466 47.6 3240 7.0 13 35 | 28 138 1 || 1989 tam | 14 | 258 480 53.8 3133 6.5 20 22 | 25 139 0 || 1990 tam | 14 | 203 365 55.6 2818 7.7 17 18 | 38 280 1 || 1991 tam | 13 | 166 326 50.9 1994 6.1 8 15 | 32 101 0 |

Miller| 1987 atl | 3 | 39 92 42.4 552 6.0 1 9 | 4 21 0 || 1988 atl | 13 | 184 351 52.4 2133 6.1 11 12 | 31 138 1 || 1989 atl | 15 | 280 526 53.2 3459 6.6 16 10 | 10 20 0 || 1990 atl | 12 | 222 388 57.2 2735 7.0 17 14 | 26 99 1 || 1991 atl | 15 | 220 413 53.3 3103 7.5 26 18 | 32 229 0 |

Stouffer| 1988 sea | 8 | 98 173 56.6 1106 6.4 4 6 | 19 27 0 || 1989 sea | 3 | 29 59 49.2 270 4.6 0 3 | 2 11 0 || 1991 sea | 2 | 6 15 40.0 57 3.8 0 1 | 0 0 0 || 1992 sea | 9 | 92 190 48.4 900 4.7 3 9 | 9 37 0 |

 

[coolnerd]

Has there ever been a first round of a draft that had three QB's get off to worse starts over their first five seasons than the 2002 draft, with Carr, Harrington and Ramsey? I truly don't know what to make of Carr. I think he and Ramsey got shellshocked by getting pounded early in their careers, and I know with Ramsey and suspect with Carr that that led to a lot of ball patting, happy feet and nervous throwing. It's hard to know what they can do to bounce back from that.

I don't know about first tound, but there are not many total QB drafts that are poorer than 2002.1 1 David Carr QB Fresno State 1 3 Joey Harrington QB Oregon 1 32 Patrick Ramsey QB Tulane 3 81 Josh McCown QB Sam Houston State 4 108 David Garrard QB East Carolina 4 117 Rohan Davey QB Louisiana State 5 137 Randy Fasani QB Stanford 5 158 Kurt Kittner QB Illinois 5 163 Brandon Doman QB Brigham Young 5 164 Craig Nall QB Northwestern State, La. 6 186 J.T. O'Sullivan QB Cal-Davis 7 216 Seth Burford QB Cal Poly-SLO 7 232 Jeff Kelly QB Southern Mississippi 7 236 Wes Pate QB Stephen F. Austin but while looking this one up, I did find a couple of gems19971 26 Jim Druckenmiller QB Virginia Tech 2 42 Jake Plummer QB Arizona State 4 99 Danny Wuerffel QB Florida 4 110 Pat Barnes QB California 6 171 Mike Cherry QB Murray State 6 191 Chuck Clements QB Houston 7 204 Tony Graziani QB Oregon 7 207 Koy Detmer QB Colorado 7 234 Wally Richardson QB Penn State 7 237 Tony Corbin QB Sacramento State 7 240 Ronnie McAda QB Army 19962 42 Tony Banks QB Michigan State 3 85 Bobby Hoying QB Ohio State 4 100 Jeff Lewis QB Northern Arizona 4 130 Danny Kanell QB Florida State 6 203 Spence Fischer QB Duke 6 205 Mike Cawley QB James Madison 7 238 Jon Stark QB Trinity, Ill. 7 240 Kyle Wachholtz QB Southern California 19883 76 Chris Chandler QB Washington 6 149 Don McPherson QB Syracuse 6 151 Scott Secules QB Virginia 6 159 Stan Humphries QB Louisiana-Monroe 7 175 Mike Perez QB San Jose State 7 180 Kerwin Bell QB Florida 10 256 Bud Keyes QB Wisconsin 10 274 Todd Santos QB San Diego State 11 281 Danny McCoin QB Cincinnati 11 282 Danny McManus QB Florida State 11 283 David Weber QB Carroll, Wis. 12 328 Steve Slayden QB Duke

 

[SSOG]

That being said SSOG, don't you think this stat is telling?

Amazingly, 83% of his pass attempts were either behind the LOS or 0-10 yard from scrimmage. I am not sure of the reason, but that does not stretch the defense at all.

I think it's telling about the scheme, not Carr. I'm actually aware of the statistic (Football Outsiders have been talking all season about how Carr's absurd comp% and QBRating were artificially inflated by the ridiculous playcalling). I don't read that much into it because it's a noticeable shift from years past, where Carr actually *DID* throw deep, and the shift coincided with Gary Kubiak bringing a new offensive system into town (a system that I'm quite familiar with, and which is dedicated to moving the chains above all else). Also, nobody in the entire history of the NFL has gotten sacked as much as David Carr (or really, even come close), so playcalling that emphasised short passing to the point of absurdity would be one way to try to protect the QB and prevent drive-killing sacks. In Denver, they have a saying that they beat into all of their running backs- "We have plays for 2nd and 10, but we don't have plays for 2nd and 15". The whole philosophy is that it's okay to not gain anything as long as you don't LOSE anything (which is why they do the one-cut system- dancing might lead to more big gains, but it also leads to more losses of yardage). It seems to me that Kubiak simply extended that philosophy to the passing game, as well.It also seems as if it worked, to some extent. Houston passed for almost 400 more yards last season, despite not having one of their two huge weapons in the passing game (DomDavis). According to Football Outsiders, Houston's offense went from 29th overall (31st passing) to 16th overall (18th passing) in Kubiak's first season.Personally, I don't think Carr is a bad quarterback, I think he's a quarterback put in the worst situation imagineable. Looking at Jake Plummer can show you just how dramatic of a difference surrounding talent can make in a QB's numbers (compare just his Arizona numbers to just his Denver numbers and you might be AMAZED at the difference).As a Denver fan, I was really hoping that Denver would trade Plummer for Carr. It would get us an experienced backup QB with a high upside, low risk, and skillset that fit the system very well (good accuracy, great mobility). And yes, I honestly believe that David Carr would be one of the best backup QBs in the league (and still might prove himself capable of being an acceptable starter, if given the chance).

 

[lod2005]

Laugh all you want but I was right in my analysis. The fact is, Carr sucks, will never have a winning season EVER, and will continue his horrible display of ineptitude for a couple more years...for some other team.

A-freaking-men. It's about time someone had the mental faculties to recognize such a blatantly obvious truth, and the balls to share it with the world. You may think I'm joking, but hard-hitting, fact-based insight such as this from the truly informed team homers is the reason I keep coming back to this site. This is the sort of insight that I'd never get on the CBS Sportsline forums. You, sir, are a paragon of the fantasy football community.Also, Peyton Manning is a choker who will never win a Superbowl.

You forgot the sarcasm icon That being said SSOG, don't you think this stat is telling?

Amazingly, 83% of his pass attempts were either behind the LOS or 0-10 yard from scrimmage. I am not sure of the reason, but that does not stretch the defense at all.

Yes that Stat tells me that the OLINE is really bad and the QB did not have any time to be able to sit in the pocket. Add the fact that there is not a running back on the Texans roster that you have to respect. And that equals a race to Carr or who ever is the QB for the Texans with no time to go deep.

Nice try but totally wrong. If you had the NFL network and watched the show where they displayed carr's total ineptitude, you would realize that your statement has no bases what so ever.

 

[lod2005]

While not good, the line wasn't nearly as bad as it has been in the past. If Spencer comes back from injury, the Texans may finally have an average Oline. So while you can put part of the blame on the line and part on the play calling, you also need to acknowledge that Carr just either didn't look downfield or couldn't find anyone when he did. Thats in stark contrast to what he did in 04, and despite the high percentage this year he's clearly regressed.

Some people here just can't see the forest for the trees. Always blame someone else for the ineptitude of one of the worst 5 year starters in NFL history. Tell me all you genius', exactly how does a fat slow RB like Ron Dayne average over 4 ypc behind what you call an atrocious line and jamal lewis can't behind an o-line in Baltimore. I didn't see McNair caving in like carr does on a regular basis. You really have no clue what you are talking about. Once Carr is gone, you will see a much better offense. Once again, same game: Carr ZERO TD's 1 INT, 5 SACKS, Sage no sacks 3 TD'sSAME GAME PEOPLE.Yes, I am wise as the one guy said earlier. No sarcasm because he knows.

 

[EMoney]

At least Travaris doesn't have to start in 2008.

I keep hearing the hype on this guy but if nodoby is confident that he can start within 3 years why even invest the money in him. If you can't step on the field within a year what is going to make you so much better in 3 years? VY and Alex Smith went right in, why not this guy?

 

[dparker713]

That being said SSOG, don't you think this stat is telling?

Amazingly, 83% of his pass attempts were either behind the LOS or 0-10 yard from scrimmage. I am not sure of the reason, but that does not stretch the defense at all.

I think it's telling about the scheme, not Carr. I'm actually aware of the statistic (Football Outsiders have been talking all season about how Carr's absurd comp% and QBRating were artificially inflated by the ridiculous playcalling). I don't read that much into it because it's a noticeable shift from years past, where Carr actually *DID* throw deep, and the shift coincided with Gary Kubiak bringing a new offensive system into town (a system that I'm quite familiar with, and which is dedicated to moving the chains above all else). Also, nobody in the entire history of the NFL has gotten sacked as much as David Carr (or really, even come close), so playcalling that emphasised short passing to the point of absurdity would be one way to try to protect the QB and prevent drive-killing sacks. In Denver, they have a saying that they beat into all of their running backs- "We have plays for 2nd and 10, but we don't have plays for 2nd and 15". The whole philosophy is that it's okay to not gain anything as long as you don't LOSE anything (which is why they do the one-cut system- dancing might lead to more big gains, but it also leads to more losses of yardage). It seems to me that Kubiak simply extended that philosophy to the passing game, as well.It also seems as if it worked, to some extent. Houston passed for almost 400 more yards last season, despite not having one of their two huge weapons in the passing game (DomDavis). According to Football Outsiders, Houston's offense went from 29th overall (31st passing) to 16th overall (18th passing) in Kubiak's first season.Personally, I don't think Carr is a bad quarterback, I think he's a quarterback put in the worst situation imagineable. Looking at Jake Plummer can show you just how dramatic of a difference surrounding talent can make in a QB's numbers (compare just his Arizona numbers to just his Denver numbers and you might be AMAZED at the difference).As a Denver fan, I was really hoping that Denver would trade Plummer for Carr. It would get us an experienced backup QB with a high upside, low risk, and skillset that fit the system very well (good accuracy, great mobility). And yes, I honestly believe that David Carr would be one of the best backup QBs in the league (and still might prove himself capable of being an acceptable starter, if given the chance).

You can't blame the whole of his lack of downfield success on the playcalling. Even when they were well behind, Carr would throw short or look for the checkdown. He was just afraid to throw downfield, and not because he didnt have time - he was afraid of throwing a pick. He certainly displayed some level of talent in 04, but last year was not a significant improvement in his game. After one of the many losses last year, an opponent basically said that they got exactly what they expected from Carr - an inability or unwillingness to throw downfield. One of the most telling things is that Carr could not audible at the line of scrimmage. For all of 1 half all year long did the coaching staff feel alright about him audibling. He was overwhelmed just trying to run the play, and yet people believe he can still develop. It's been 5 years, he's not going to suddenly blossum.

 

[dparker713]

While not good, the line wasn't nearly as bad as it has been in the past. If Spencer comes back from injury, the Texans may finally have an average Oline. So while you can put part of the blame on the line and part on the play calling, you also need to acknowledge that Carr just either didn't look downfield or couldn't find anyone when he did. Thats in stark contrast to what he did in 04, and despite the high percentage this year he's clearly regressed.

Some people here just can't see the forest for the trees. Always blame someone else for the ineptitude of one of the worst 5 year starters in NFL history. Tell me all you genius', exactly how does a fat slow RB like Ron Dayne average over 4 ypc behind what you call an atrocious line and jamal lewis can't behind an o-line in Baltimore. I didn't see McNair caving in like carr does on a regular basis. You really have no clue what you are talking about. Once Carr is gone, you will see a much better offense. Once again, same game: Carr ZERO TD's 1 INT, 5 SACKS, Sage no sacks 3 TD'sSAME GAME PEOPLE.Yes, I am wise as the one guy said earlier. No sarcasm because he knows.

Don't understand why you're railing against me. I'm not a Carr backer, I just don't think he's the scum of the earth like you do.

 

[lod2005]

That being said SSOG, don't you think this stat is telling?

Amazingly, 83% of his pass attempts were either behind the LOS or 0-10 yard from scrimmage. I am not sure of the reason, but that does not stretch the defense at all.

I think it's telling about the scheme, not Carr. I'm actually aware of the statistic (Football Outsiders have been talking all season about how Carr's absurd comp% and QBRating were artificially inflated by the ridiculous playcalling). I don't read that much into it because it's a noticeable shift from years past, where Carr actually *DID* throw deep, and the shift coincided with Gary Kubiak bringing a new offensive system into town (a system that I'm quite familiar with, and which is dedicated to moving the chains above all else). Also, nobody in the entire history of the NFL has gotten sacked as much as David Carr (or really, even come close), so playcalling that emphasised short passing to the point of absurdity would be one way to try to protect the QB and prevent drive-killing sacks. In Denver, they have a saying that they beat into all of their running backs- "We have plays for 2nd and 10, but we don't have plays for 2nd and 15". The whole philosophy is that it's okay to not gain anything as long as you don't LOSE anything (which is why they do the one-cut system- dancing might lead to more big gains, but it also leads to more losses of yardage). It seems to me that Kubiak simply extended that philosophy to the passing game, as well.It also seems as if it worked, to some extent. Houston passed for almost 400 more yards last season, despite not having one of their two huge weapons in the passing game (DomDavis). According to Football Outsiders, Houston's offense went from 29th overall (31st passing) to 16th overall (18th passing) in Kubiak's first season.

Personally, I don't think Carr is a bad quarterback, I think he's a quarterback put in the worst situation imagineable. Looking at Jake Plummer can show you just how dramatic of a difference surrounding talent can make in a QB's numbers (compare just his Arizona numbers to just his Denver numbers and you might be AMAZED at the difference).

As a Denver fan, I was really hoping that Denver would trade Plummer for Carr. It would get us an experienced backup QB with a high upside, low risk, and skillset that fit the system very well (good accuracy, great mobility). And yes, I honestly believe that David Carr would be one of the best backup QBs in the league (and still might prove himself capable of being an acceptable starter, if given the chance).

Not even close. And yes, he is absolutely awful. You will find out what I already know once he is on another team. That is, he is NOT NFL QB material. You will then blame it on some sort of 'shock' that he has from playing the last 5 years at such a low level. I just can't understand why anyone thinks this guy is any good at all.What has he ever accomplished? Tell me all about the big come from behind victories he has...ok how about just one.

 

[lod2005]

You can't blame the whole of his lack of downfield success on the playcalling. Even when they were well behind, Carr would throw short or look for the checkdown. He was just afraid to throw downfield, and not because he didnt have time - he was afraid of throwing a pick. He certainly displayed some level of talent in 04, but last year was not a significant improvement in his game. After one of the many losses last year, an opponent basically said that they got exactly what they expected from Carr - an inability or unwillingness to throw downfield. One of the most telling things is that Carr could not audible at the line of scrimmage. For all of 1 half all year long did the coaching staff feel alright about him audibling. He was overwhelmed just trying to run the play, and yet people believe he can still develop. It's been 5 years, he's not going to suddenly blossum.

 

[lod2005]

Don't understand why you're railing against me. I'm not a Carr backer, I just don't think he's the scum of the earth like you do.

Don't recall saying he is the scum of the earth, but he is trash as far as an NFL QB. He has no business playing QB in the NFL. He's no different than Harrington, actually he's worse. He just fools people with 5-8 yard passes for a high completion %.Scouting report from the Texans message board.

http://forums.houstontexans.com/showthread.php?t=36567

Heres the quick rundown:

The Good: Carr is a nice person with good morals who doesn't get into trouble. He gets sacked a lot and keeps on playing. He's tough. He has a great QB physique, meaning he's strong, tall, and can throw the ball a long way. He is quick on his feet, and when he decides to run, he can get big chunks of yards. He is very accurate within 10 yards of the LOS, completing 70% of his passes. He is careful about throwing interceptions, and doesn't make risky throws, thus protecting the ball.

The Bad:

Carr loses a lot of his accuracy on deep balls, and is afraid to throw over the middle. He doesn't feel pressure in the pocket well, and instead of stepping up to avoid the edge rushers he runs out of the pocket. He often forgets to throw the ball away and runs out of bounds or takes the sack. BINGO!! He picks the receiver he is going to throw to, locks on, and has trouble looking anwywhere else. He is not a leader in the lockeroom. He has become used to losing, and it doesnt bother him anymore.

The Ugly- He has horrible footwork, that is so bad he tripped over his own OL at least 3-5 times this year. he cannot hang on to the ball when being sacked, and fumbled an incredible amount this year. Wonder if the O-line was knocking the ball out of his hands too. He is so shell shocked from being sacked that sometimes if a big DL breaks the LOS, he crumples to the ground and gets into the fetal position BEFORE the guy even gets close to him . He is terrible in the red zone, throwing for only 11 TDs the entire year. He is so careful with the football that he won't throw it into coverage unless he absoultely has to. As such, 99% of his passes are within 5 yards of the LOS.

Basically, Carr has a lot of talent and God given ability, but has been developed so poorly that he will never utilize it. He is not a winner at heart, and despite his great image and morals, he cannot lead this football team because they don't believe in him. The coach doesn't trust him, and Carr doesn't trust himself.

There is your David Carr. Of course, they banned me for making a similar post. This guy was kind in some of his assessment.