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Speculative Add: Virgil Green (1 Viewer)

Green is entering his SIXTH season. In that time we've seen multiple TE's come into Denver
and leave. It does not matter what he did in college or how talented he is. At this point it
doesn't matter what the excuse is on why he hasn't been ff relevant. If you have him stashed
on any league with rosters below 25 players it is a wasted spot.

 
Dr. Octopus said:
Eifert missed one game as a rookie and put up 39-445-2.

Kelce missed his entire rookie season - so not sure how we qualify him as a successful rookie -but he did have a very solid sophomore season.

So every single rookie TE since 2010 that struggled, just sucks and will always suck - and the 2 guys (3 if you count Reed who missed most of his rookie season) that have done well as rookies disprove the fact that rookie TEs struggle? That's your position? 
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No, that's the opposite of the mainstream position. My position is that it's much more complex than just ignoring the position until a few seasons have passed and then forming an opinion when there is already more than enough examples to show that truly good TEs can flourish early. I happen to think the community has soured because a few big names (Ertz, Ebron, ASJ) are serial under-performers.

I expect Hooper to have a good rookie season, and I expect Heuerman now that's he's healthy to take the job he was drafted for.

I think it's silly to just expect rookie TEs to not produce, its such a waste of value - but plz do what you want.

 
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nightmare said:
Green is entering his SIXTH season. In that time we've seen multiple TE's come into Denver
and leave. It does not matter what he did in college or how talented he is. At this point it
doesn't matter what the excuse is on why he hasn't been ff relevant. If you have him stashed
on any league with rosters below 25 players it is a wasted spot.




 
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i'm all for context. he's played under both Fox who made him play behind Julius Thomas and Jacob Tamme (who was following Manning ostensibly). Kubiak got Daniels for a year because of the scheme change. He's as much a security blanket for Kubiak as Tamme was for Manning that one year. Now Green is an established blocker but he's also got some receiving skills. He's less a speculative add for relevancy this year than a 2nd year TE who hasn't played a single snap yet as he rehabbed from season-ending injury. 

 
saintfool said:
i'm all for context. he's played under both Fox who made him play behind Julius Thomas and Jacob Tamme (who was following Manning ostensibly). Kubiak got Daniels for a year because of the scheme change. He's as much a security blanket for Kubiak as Tamme was for Manning that one year. Now Green is an established blocker but he's also got some receiving skills. He's less a speculative add for relevancy this year than a 2nd year TE who hasn't played a single snap yet as he rehabbed from season-ending injury. 
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No, I do not believe he is. Coaches bring in players to compete for a spot. Green can take the job, all he has
to do is beat ONE of those other TE's who aren't as athletic and worse blockers. Heuerman could be Kelce 2.0
(situation wise) or average.

Their is a reason Denver keeps bringing more guys in-Green hasn't stepped up and taken the job. Players can
either take the starting job, be the backup(maybe as good) or just be good enough to stay on the team. Coaches
may have told Green "you're the backup". Doesn't mean he has to accept it-and it looks like he has done that
multiple times. That is a guy who is going to "lose" to the 2nd year TE who has done nothing.
 

We can agree to disagree and this season will prove one of us wrong.

 
 

Virgil Green secured 4-of-4 targets for 57 yards in the Broncos' second preseason game Saturday night.
It's become clear that Green needs to be taken seriously as a sleeper low-end TE1 candidate as a safety valve for Denver's inept quarterbacks. The Broncos specifically designed plays for Green in Saturday night's exhibition, as Trevor Siemian hit him on a bootleg rollout and a tight end screen before Green continued to get run with the Mark Sanchez group. Through two preseason contests, Green has caught all seven of his targets for 83 yards.

 
 
 
Aug 20 - 11:20 PM
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Run It Up said:
In the past 5 years, Gronk, Hernandez, Kelce, Eifert and Reed.

Kelce, Eifert and Reed missing most of their first and second seasons with injury, Gronk and Hernandez hit the ground running. Outside of those fresh TEs can you name any young TEs who have looked like they are gonna ever be worth anything? Graham is kind of a tweener, he blew up his second year but the dude hasn't played a full season ever to my knowledge, hes a one dimensional TE who is giving everyone the blueprint as to how to beat such a player - you just beat the #### out of him because the refs aren't going to flag you.

I haven't seen anything from Ebron, ASJ or Ertz to make me think they will ever be good, with that sample its pretty clear that TEs with very few snaps can show good production early. I don't think anything before 2010 really can be taken with as much as some salt, the NFL is different, the TE position is different.
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I'm not sure what all this has to do with Green but I think you're stretching things just a tad to make a point about Graham. It's not just tight ends, coaches sometimes wait for rookies to develop to work them in during the year. IIRC Graham had a nice close to his rookie season. He was beyond great FF wise and on the field 4 years running. The only teams I really recall beating him up were the Hawks and Pats, who had the personnel, coaches and maybe the leeway from the refs to do it. Now Graham himself was also matched with the right HC and QB to do what he did. Same goes for Gronk. I think that's the bigger issue for TEs, landing somewhere they can be exploited as receivers to the max, that's rare. 

 
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I think Virgil Green is seriously underrated this year.  Here's why:

  • TE friendly Kubiak offense.  This offense will be run first and throw second, which means the TE will be utilized a lot more than a 3rd WR.
  • Will be playing with first year starter @ QB.  Green will be the safety blanket for Siemian/Lynch.
  • doesn't seem to be in competition for TE touches.  Heuerman was supposed to be the guy but he can't seem to get healthy.  no other TE's worth noting on the team.
  • I know it's just pre-season, but he leads the Broncos in catches, hauling in all 10 of his targets.  He is behind only DT and Sanders for targets, by the way.
I think he has top 10 potential written all over him, and his ADP is waaay low, if he is being drafted at all.

 
moleculo said:
I think Virgil Green is seriously underrated this year.  Here's why:

  • TE friendly Kubiak offense.  This offense will be run first and throw second, which means the TE will be utilized a lot more than a 3rd WR.
  • Will be playing with first year starter @ QB.  Green will be the safety blanket for Siemian/Lynch.
  • doesn't seem to be in competition for TE touches.  Heuerman was supposed to be the guy but he can't seem to get healthy.  no other TE's worth noting on the team.
  • I know it's just pre-season, but he leads the Broncos in catches, hauling in all 10 of his targets.  He is behind only DT and Sanders for targets, by the way.
I think he has top 10 potential written all over him, and his ADP is waaay low, if he is being drafted at all.
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I agree completely.  I don't know why he is going under so far under the radar.  He has played with the starters all through the preseason and has been pretty consitant even with all the QB's being rotated through.  I don't think he will get the TD's that Thomas got, but this kind of feels the same as JT's break out year, where no one knew who he was but it was obvious if you watched the preseason that he was part of the plan.

I have him ranked 8th on my TE board in the same tier as Bennett, Ertz, Fleener, Thomas.  After the top three TE's I really don't care who I get so I'll take the cheapest.  If I can get Gates or Bennett for $1 in auction great, if not I don't mind starting Green.

 
Dynasty League: Rookie/Vet Draft last night I grabbed him in the fourth and all the owners looked puzzled.

i drafted him for depth but I passed on all the rookie TEs including Higbee so I'm hoping I'm right. This thread is what caught my attention.

Thnx,

Tex

 
Cook has looked good in the preseason. I would have done the same but it would have been close. Rodgers is still in the picture.

Tex

 
abbottjamesr said:
I agree completely.  I don't know why he is going under so far under the radar.  He has played with the starters all through the preseason and has been pretty consitant even with all the QB's being rotated through.  I don't think he will get the TD's that Thomas got, but this kind of feels the same as JT's break out year, where no one knew who he was but it was obvious if you watched the preseason that he was part of the plan.
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Last year's poor tight end production in Denver despite being a Kubiak offense is one of the main reasons he's valued as he is, even among those who are aware of him.  Denver's offensive personnel haven't changed much since last year, when the tight ends only managed 900 yards and 4 TDs despite 121 targets.  Individually, none of them were roster-worthy in even 14-team leagues.  The tight end may traditionally do well on Kubiak's teams, but it didn't happen in Denver.

Don't get me wrong--Green's on my watchlist.  I just think it's hard to invest in him as more than a second TE/last pick in most formats, and that considering him a likely top 10 performer is risky.  I would rather pay a little more for Dwayne Allen or Ebron or Ertz and only roster one TE.

 
We Tigers said:
Last year's poor tight end production in Denver despite being a Kubiak offense is one of the main reasons he's valued as he is, even among those who are aware of him.  Denver's offensive personnel haven't changed much since last year, when the tight ends only managed 900 yards and 4 TDs despite 121 targets.  Individually, none of them were roster-worthy in even 14-team leagues.  The tight end may traditionally do well on Kubiak's teams, but it didn't happen in Denver.

Don't get me wrong--Green's on my watchlist.  I just think it's hard to invest in him as more than a second TE/last pick in most formats, and that considering him a likely top 10 performer is risky.  I would rather pay a little more for Dwayne Allen or Ebron or Ertz and only roster one TE.
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I agree there are some risks here and I am targeting Gates or Bennett first, but he remains a solid plan B to me.  I think Manning didn't let Kubiak run his offense and I think this year will look a little different.

 
We Tigers said:
Last year's poor tight end production in Denver despite being a Kubiak offense is one of the main reasons he's valued as he is, even among those who are aware of him.  Denver's offensive personnel haven't changed much since last year, when the tight ends only managed 900 yards and 4 TDs despite 121 targets.  Individually, none of them were roster-worthy in even 14-team leagues.  The tight end may traditionally do well on Kubiak's teams, but it didn't happen in Denver.

Don't get me wrong--Green's on my watchlist.  I just think it's hard to invest in him as more than a second TE/last pick in most formats, and that considering him a likely top 10 performer is risky.  I would rather pay a little more for Dwayne Allen or Ebron or Ertz and only roster one TE.
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1. I'd say Denvers offensive personnel has changed dramatically, at one key position especially.

2. Denver didn't run the Kubiak offense last year.  It was a Manning/Kubiak hybrid, and it was poor all around.  I don't think using last years production as a baseline has much value at all.

I agree though that this is why Green is rated where he is.  I think it's a mistake.

 
Weak at TE this year in one league with D Allen getting the start. Strong at WR since I went WR, WR, WR, RB, RB out of the box. Just added V Green and dropped J Cameron as TE #2 even though I think D Allen is also a TE #2 although around 13-15. Can't always get what you want,,,

 
 

Virgil Green is officially listed as the Broncos' starting tight end on their Week 1 depth chart.
Jeff Heuerman drew some early-offseason buzz as a potential breakout candidate after missing his 2015 rookie season, but coach Gary Kubiak admitted Heuerman can't stay healthy. Green has never been a model of health, either, but he took hold of the job in training camp and showed some rapport with the popgun-armed quarterbacks on Denver's roster. He gets the Panthers Week 1.

 
 
 
Sep 4 - 11:47 AM
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I have gotten Green on most of my teams so far, for a buck or two in every auction or in the last few rounds of every draft.  It's crazy how much people are overlooking him. 

Let's examine how TEs have done in a Kubiak offense in the last 10 year (with the leading TE in parenthesis):

2006: 56 catches, 7 touchdowns (Owen Daniels as a rookie) (first season as Texans head coach)

2007: 73 catches, 6 touchdowns (Daniels)

2008: 78 catches, 2 touchdowns (Daniels)

2009: 66 catches, 6 touchdowns (Daniels)

2010: 82 catches, 6 touchdowns (Daniels)

2011: 82 catches, 9 touchdowns (Daniels)

2012: 124 catches, 12 touchdowns (Daniels)

2013: 92 catches, 9 touchdowns (Garrett Graham) (last season as Texans head coach)

2014: 74 catches, 5 touchdowns (Daniels) (first and only season as OC for Baltimore)

2015: 78 catches, 4 touchdowns (Daniels) (first season as Broncos head coach)

Moral of the story: tight ends in a Gary Kubiak offense are going to catch a lot of balls, and without a lot of competition at this time, Green should be in line for a large piece of the TE pie in Denver this year.  He has low end TE1 written all over him...and for a very cheap price. 

 
I'll have to amend my statement about V Green not being worth a roster spot on 25+ players.
In dynasty I would stash him but he joins a laundry list of TE's after the top 6 that could be a
your weekly FF starter.
 

 
slackjawedyokel said:
Anyone have an idea of his availability this week?  Lynch may lean heavily on TE's but he has to actually be in the game.
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Last I heard it sounded like Siemian would be healthy enough to play by Sunday and got the "Trevor is our starting QB" nod from Kubiack.

That said, it sounds like Green should be good to go as well. 

 
stuckinthemuck said:
This. Derby is now the TE of the future. Green's strengths as a run blocker are not useful for fantasy owners. 
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that's the thing, he was reasonably productive as college TE's go. he had Kapernick throwing to him even. oh well. Derby it is!

 
stuckinthemuck said:
This. Derby is now the TE of the future. Green's strengths as a run blocker are not useful for fantasy owners. 
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The 2017 Draft class may have something to say about this.

Tex

 
Another owner in my league dumped ASJ so I dropped Green to pick him up. I'd rather take a chance on ASJ at this point. 

 
Sup_Yo said:
Another owner in my league dumped ASJ so I dropped Green to pick him up. I'd rather take a chance on ASJ at this point. 
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He's worth zero right know in Redrafts. He might be worth 35 cents and a can of Lima beans in Dyno leagues.

He's still on the end of my bench. Smh

Tex

 
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