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Stallworth to the Patriots (1 Viewer)
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Cardsfan11
Footballguy
Fantasy death for Stallworth!!!! Well my dynasty team just took a big hit!!
of the teams that he looked at Tennessee, Miami or NE you'd have to think the best locaton for him was in NE...if you were hoping he'd stay in Philly you gave the Eagles F.O too much credit.
ThePassion
Footballguy
Well as an Eagles fan I did want to see him come back... but nevertheless if they would have paid him that money you would have been ripping the F.O for that as well. I don't think they made a horrible decision to let him slide for that amount.
I agree. Bring on Kevin Curtis for half of that and leave plenty of cap space for other needs...
Buddy Ball 2K3
Footballguy
Yeah imagine what a WR who has had a 1k receiving yard season in his career would get, or a WR that has had double digit TDs just once in his career, or a WR that has ever started a full 16 games in a season !!
Workhorse
Footballguy
Deion Branch got 6 years, $39 million and he wasn't a free agent and has WORSE career stats than Stallworth and is just as injury prone. That contract pretty much set the WR market heading into this offseason.
Heatman
Footballguy
Yes but Excellent for Brady!
I'm sure the Pats know the time is now to make a run as Brady/Seymour are'nt getting any younger. Unlike the Thomas move I hate this one. It's obvious the Pats are desperate for a wr and are rolling the dice on this guy. In their defense they don't have a lot of options as Jackson is hurt. I'm sure they had hoped he'd be the #1 guy after taking him in the first last year. I still think the deal is bad because it's 12 mil guaranteed. I would only have given him an incentive laced deal and if he didn't bite then so be it. The guy to me is soft, doesn't block well or catch the ball in traffic. On top of that his hands are'nt that great, he's a speed guy with constant hammy issues and now has a substance abuse issue. He can stretch the field and the Pats obviously view that need as paramount to getting the offense where it needs to be. Unlike the Thomas deal I see this out of pure desperation. I hope he is the answer but I have serious doubts he is. Only time will tell.
BigRed
Footballguy
lolyep
Mr. Pink
Footballguy
That's the feeling around these parts. The Pats under BB were never particularly aggressive in the FA market, choosing rather to build their teams through the draft and supplement with decent FA players. Their behavior this off-season is a complete departutre from past practice.
zamboni
Footballguy
Maybe, but Brady's m.o. is to spread the ball around, so Donte will likely have his up and down games. Plus, Watson remains a primary target, and Welker will probably be a meaningful part of the passing game as well. I imagine Chad Jackson's injury makes him a non-entity this year though.
HellToupee
Footballguy
+ the Patriots received a #1 for BranchI'll take Stallworth & the 1 for Branch any day
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
On the other side of the fence, how do you think this effects Reggie Browns numbers? Is he ready to be the primary guy in Philly?
Darth Cheney
Footballguy
No...... I think that Brown is an excellent number two and a very good number 1A/1B. As a clear cut number one.... I'm not sure.
Boston
Footballguy
Not one last Super Bowl...they're thinking multiple Super Bowls. The Pats are in a position to go on another run for the next five years and accomplish some things that haven't been done before.
Boston
Footballguy
That's part of the reason. It was pretty obvious the Pats needed more big play ability/athleticism on their team. Well, adding Thomas, Welker and Stallworth as well as two #1's should provide a serious upgrade to all three facets of the game next year.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
I'd have taken him in Tennessee over New England in a heartbeat.
Tough As Nails
Glave Master
This is exactly right. How can you rip the Patriots for this signing? They were going to give Branch as much or more. AND they got a 1st rounder out of it. I'm sure they wish they signed a Stallworth-like player last year in anticipation of Branch leaving...but that was impossible for them to know at this point last year. They certainly made the most out of the situation. They had the cap room (and still have more) and made a move for a young player with potential at a need position.
nerangers
Footballguy
But all of these moves in the FA will make it a much more flexible draft for the Pats. They are filling needs before going into the draft. Also the league is changing by increasing the Salary Cap...it burned the Pats last year, so I don't think they wanted to get burned again. They know what they want, and if they can get it in the FA, then why not?They actually did this the season they won their first Super Bowl, so maybe it is a good omen!
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Jeff Pasquino
Footballguy
I think the bigger concern for NE should be youth on the defensive side of the ball, in particular the front seven. AD helps, but the LBs are getting up there in age (and the loss of Banta-Cain didn't help).
Shermanator
Footballguy
I disagree. Reggie's numbers were very strong when Donte' was out of the lineup. Reggie is now the unquestioned #1 in Philly, and rightfully so.
Liquid Tension
Footballguy
I was thinking the same thing. Maybe BB is thinking that he only wants to coach two more years and he is going for it? Regardless, don't you think the AFC East is the most improved division this offseason (so far). Clearly NE is the most improved team.
Chunky Soup
Footballguy
How does this affect Ben Watsons expectations?
Traders2001
Footballguy
Brady always had bad receivers to throw to , that s why he spreads the ball around so much .
I mean c mon besides maybe deion Branch what has Brady been throwing the ball to lately ( Troy Brown , David Patten , David Givens he died down after he signed with Tenessee Brady made him a better reciever then he really his ) .
So now with a real #1 receiver on his team both Stallworth and Brady will benefit .
I mean c mon besides maybe deion Branch what has Brady been throwing the ball to lately ( Troy Brown , David Patten , David Givens he died down after he signed with Tenessee Brady made him a better reciever then he really his ) .
So now with a real #1 receiver on his team both Stallworth and Brady will benefit .
SteelerMurf
Footballguy
Come on now, it's just Stallworth and he is never healthy. And the team is still aging. Thomas will be 30 already when the season begins. So these 2 additions hardly set the team up for a 5 year dominating run. You may want to check the ages of most of the rest of your starts too. NE is making a serious run for this season and next. After that guys like Thomas will be 32 while Vrabel, Bruschi, Harrison will probably be retired. Seymore will be pushing 30....it's an aging team.I don't think Stallworth changes the makeup of the team at all. Brady and that offense is not about chucking it 40 yards down the field.
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Deranged Hermit
Not cool & Pissed
Best all-around QB he's had? Sure. Best QB to take advantage of Stallworth's strengths? Nope, not even close. He won't have the numbers he had in Philly while in NE.
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Deranged Hermit
Not cool & Pissed
LBH
Footballguy
I wouldnt call Stallworth a real #1 reciever, even if he somehow makes it through the season uninjured(which i seriously doubt happens)
why, because Vince Young is such a great QB? I love VY, but let's be real his throwing stats are going to be marginally better than Vick's. At least that is what appears to be the case, I know it's early, but they have SO many similarities. At least Brady throws for close to 4000 yards... You have to think Stallworth will fill the Branch deep role, and should pick up many of Brown's looks too if he retires. Welker and Stallworth sshould put up nice numbers, Chad Jackson will probably not play much of the year.
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Boston
Footballguy
The Pats are not going for it this year...it's the next five years. I firmly believe that with Brady turning 30 this year they know they have a five year window to accomplish some historical stuff. Once Brady is gone all bets are off. They were close the last two years but they needed more big play ability/athleticism. With Thomas, Welker, Stallworth and two first round picks all three facets of the game will now be vastly improved in this area.Also, I believe the Pats are aware that with the cap going up so much the bargain shopping will be limited for the next year or two. There's too many teams with big cap space to expect players to play for less. They will find someone to give them good money. As for Stallworth there are risks. They are well documented and the fact he's getting solid money makes it even more risky. Yet, the Pats have been searching for a big play threat since BB came onboard. The closest they have come was David Patten. Stallworth brings something that this offense has never really had. If he starts stretching the field that will open up a ton of space for Welker, Troy, Gaffney, Caldwell, Watson, Thomas, Maroney, Faulk, Evans ans Morris and Brady will be absolutely deadly in that scenario. So, while Stallworth is a risk what he brings to the table is the missing piece to their offense. Should Jax get his head out of his butt this offense could be even more deadly. This team has a chance to really do some big/historical stuff in the next five years and as a Patriot fan I could not be more happy with the committment they are showing to their fans.You're wrong as far as the aging goes, take a look at the roster and you see a good portion of their core still being young (offensively only Troy, Kyle Brady Faulk and Neal are 30 or older): POS AGE HT WT EXP COLLEGE 12 Tom Brady QB 29 6-4 225 7 Michigan 16 Matt Cassel QB 24 6-4 225 2 USC 33 Kevin Faulk RB 30 5-8 202 8 LSU - Quadtrine Hill RB 24 6-2 221 R Miami (FL) 39 Laurence Maroney RB 22 5-11 220 R Minnesota 31 Sammy Morris RB 29 6-0 218 7 Texas Tech 44 Heath Evans FB 28 6-0 250 6 Auburn 45 Garrett Mills FB 23 6-1 235 R Tulsa 35 Patrick Pass FB 29 5-10 217 7 Georgia 87 Reche Caldwell WR 27 6-0 210 5 Florida 13 Bam Childress WR 24 5-10 185 1 Ohio State 10 Jabar Gaffney WR 26 6-1 205 5 Florida 17 Chad Jackson WR 22 6-1 215 R Florida 19 Kelvin Kight WR 24 6-0 209 1 Florida 83 Wes Welker WR 25 5-9 185 3 Texas Tech 80 Kyle Brady TE 35 6-6 280 12 Penn State 45 Matt Kranchick TE 27 6-7 260 3 Penn State 88 O.J. Santiago TE 32 6-7 265 7 Kent State 86 David Thomas TE 23 6-3 248 R Texas 84 Benjamin Watson TE 26 6-3 255 3 Georgia 62 Brian Barthelmes C 24 6-6 300 R Virginia 67 Dan Koppen C 27 6-2 296 4 Boston College 64 Gene Mruczkowski C 26 6-2 305 4 Purdue 66 Lonie Paxton C 28 6-2 260 7 Sacramento State 71 Russ Hochstein G 29 6-4 305 6 Nebraska 70 Logan Mankins G 25 6-4 310 2 Fresno State 61 Stephen Neal G 30 6-4 305 5 Cal State Bakersfield 68 Ryan O'Callaghan G 23 6-7 330 R California 74 Billy Yates G 26 6-2 305 3 Texas A&M 65 Wesley Britt OT 25 6-8 320 1 Alabama 70 Sean Bubin OT 26 6-7 307 R Illinois 77 Nick Kaczur OT 27 6-4 315 2 Toledo 72 Matt Light OT 28 6-4 305 6 Purdue Defense NUM NAME POS AGE HT WT EXP COLLEGE 25 Artrell Hawkins DE 30 5-10 195 9 Cincinnati 91 Marquise Hill DE 24 6-6 300 3 LSU 90 LeKevin Smith DT 24 6-1 308 R Nebraska 92 Santonio Thomas DT 25 6-4 305 1 Miami (FL) 75 Vince Wilfork DT 25 6-2 325 3 Miami (FL) 97 Jarvis Green DL 28 6-3 285 5 LSU 93 Richard Seymour DL 27 6-6 310 6 Georgia 94 Ty Warren DL 26 6-5 300 4 Texas A&M 99 Mike Wright DL 25 6-4 295 2 Cincinnati 52 Eric Alexander LB 25 6-2 240 2 LSU 54 Tedy Bruschi LB 33 6-1 247 11 Arizona 59 Rosevelt Colvin LB 29 6-3 250 8 Purdue 51 Don Davis LB 34 6-1 235 11 Kansas 47 Barry Gardner LB 30 6-1 245 8 Northwestern 53 Larry Izzo LB 32 5-10 228 11 Rice 46 Corey Mays LB 23 6-1 245 R Notre Dame 55 Junior Seau LB 38 6-3 248 17 USC 96 Adalius Thomas LB 29 6-2 270 7 Southern Miss 50 Mike Vrabel LB 31 6-4 261 10 Ohio State 58 Pierre Woods LB 25 6-5 250 R Michigan 23 Willie Andrews CB 23 5-10 195 R Baylor 21 Randall Gay CB 24 5-11 190 3 LSU 27 Ellis Hobbs CB 23 5-9 190 2 Iowa State 22 Asante Samuel CB 26 5-10 185 4 UCF 30 Chad Scott CB 32 6-1 205 10 Maryland 31 Antwain Spann CB 24 6-0 190 1 Louisiana-Lafayette 26 Eugene Wilson DB 26 5-10 195 4 Illinois 32 Rashad Baker S 25 5-10 198 3 Tennessee 37 Rodney Harrison S 34 6-1 220 13 Western Illinois 34 Tebucky Jones S 32 6-2 220 9 Syracuse 24 Mel Mitchell S 28 6-1 225 5 Western Kentucky 36 James Sanders S 23 5-10 210 2 Fresno State Kicker/Punter NUM NAME POS AGE HT WT EXP COLLEGE 3 Stephen Gostkowski K 23 6-1 210 R Memphis - Danny Baugher P 23 5-10 195 R Arizona - Tom Malone P 22 6-0 205 R USC 8 Josh Miller P 36 6-4 225 11 Arizona 18 Todd Sauerbrun P 34 5-10 215 12 West Virginia 13 Ken Walter P 34
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Frank Black
Footballguy
Perhaps on a PPG basis, you're right. But I'm looking at things on a season-end basis. An injury prone player like Stallworth playing for a snake-bitten team like Philly doesn't make for good health karma. Nothing scientific here, but I don't think Stallworth would ever stay healty in Philly.
rabidfireweasel
Footballguy
Uh, no.Branch is not a get down field guy. He is a zone destroyer who gets out of his cuts with great quickness. Stallworth has more yards on fewer catches and 50% more TD's.Uh, Branch?
Boston
Footballguy
You mean LBs because Seymour is 27, Warren is 26, Wilfork is 25, Wright is 25 and Jarvis is 28. As for the LBs I think they will always be a veteran group. That's how BB plays his hand there and it's also why his two biggest free agent acquisitions were Colvin and Thomas. As for Cain he's a role player. His asset is rushing the passer but outside of that he is limited which is why he was riding the bench in the AFC championship game.Also, I fully expect both #1's to be on defense, preferably in the secondary.
randall146
Footballguy
It's actually Stallworth + a #1 pick + a full season of no #1 receiver for Branch. And we probably could have used that receiver last year.
Rabbid Patriot Homer
Footballguy
i may be the first pats fan to say it, but - i don't like this signing at all.
Jason Wood
Zoo York
One thing we fans tend to get way too overworked about are the nominal amounts of a given contract. I would think Pats fans and detractors alike would give Pioli credit in understanding how to structure a contract and it's implications on the team's future plans far better than the lot of us.
While $12mm in guarantees and a $30mm "value" may seem like more than we "feel" Stallworth should have gotten, you have to remember that this is a unique situation given the jump in expected salary cap tied to last year's CBA. What was excessive a year or two ago is now fair market rate.
In terms of Stallworth's expected contribution, $12mm in guarantees hardly seems arduous. If he lives up to the Pats expectations, it will seem a value two or three years from now and if he falls short due to more hamstring injuries or a bad fit with the offensive system, skeptics will have railed against the signing at half its value.
While $12mm in guarantees and a $30mm "value" may seem like more than we "feel" Stallworth should have gotten, you have to remember that this is a unique situation given the jump in expected salary cap tied to last year's CBA. What was excessive a year or two ago is now fair market rate.
In terms of Stallworth's expected contribution, $12mm in guarantees hardly seems arduous. If he lives up to the Pats expectations, it will seem a value two or three years from now and if he falls short due to more hamstring injuries or a bad fit with the offensive system, skeptics will have railed against the signing at half its value.
LHUCKS
Footballguy
Agree with many that this is a curious signing...a Kevin Curtis makes much more sense.
As for the fantasy implications I wouldn't be surprised to see Donte a bit overranked this year...Donte's has a lot of risk mixed with a low ceiling.
A Patriots WR hasn't had a 1000 yard season since 2001.
As for the fantasy implications I wouldn't be surprised to see Donte a bit overranked this year...Donte's has a lot of risk mixed with a low ceiling.
A Patriots WR hasn't had a 1000 yard season since 2001.
Ron_Mexico
I Love Doggies
I think he was the best WR on the market.He is a suitable replacement for Deion Branch.It's worth a shot, imo.
I'm fired up.
Balco
Footballguy
Wow, bad signing here. Not sure why they went for a guy who won't play unless he is 150 %, always seems to have nagging injuries, is in the drug program, and has character issues. Definitely not a BB guy. Not sure why they didn't call Kevin Curtis' agent. Curtis is a better receiver, and seems like a BB guy (Wonderlic was through the roof, has experience playing out of the slot and as an outside guy). He probably will go cheaper as well.
Maybe Pats fans can help me on this. What's the deal with long term contracts on the real key defensive players. I know Seymour is signed long term. But Wilfork and Warren? I thought I read somewhere that Warren resigned but I could be wrong.
Maybe Pats fans can help me on this. What's the deal with long term contracts on the real key defensive players. I know Seymour is signed long term. But Wilfork and Warren? I thought I read somewhere that Warren resigned but I could be wrong.
Balco
Footballguy
I never look at the overall "money" and length of the contract. AS you said, many players will never see the end of their deals. (but the cap hits can linger) I look at the guarantees. 12 mil is way too much for Donte Stallworth.
Boston
Footballguy
Check out the contract terms...no exposure for the Pats in year one. They basically get a trial run and than can decide if they want to commit long term.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2794615
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2794615
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
That's an odd contract. There's no way they pay him 11 million in 2008 even if he plays great, so he's just asking to be cut after this year or renegogiate.
MelKiperJr
Footballguy
YEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!
