STAR WARS: EP 7 ***SPOILER ZONE*** - Go here if you've seen it (4 Viewers)

[cstu]

What is the science in Star Wars? It's a fantasy movie like Harry Potter. Weird that anybody even considers it sci-fi.

Are you serious? I would be shocked if everything a galactic civilization could do DIDN'T look like magic to us. Realistically, it probably doesn't go far enough. I would expect them to break several "laws" of physics (because they've come to understand they aren't really laws at all).

We're primitives next to them. We're the anthill next to a skyscraper.

So advanced they fight with light swords.

 

[cstu]

Star Wars is basically about some people learning magic to beat the bad guys in black. Fantasy for sure IMO

 

[Zigg]

I hate it when Star Wars isn't good enough. :(

Me too.

 

[Bob Magaw]

Spock weighs in

https://suzie81.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/29zcyeh.jpg

 

[Bob Magaw]

What is the science in Star Wars? It's a fantasy movie like Harry Potter. Weird that anybody even considers it sci-fi.

Are you serious? I would be shocked if everything a galactic civilization could do DIDN'T look like magic to us. Realistically, it probably doesn't go far enough. I would expect them to break several "laws" of physics (because they've come to understand they aren't really laws at all).

We're primitives next to them. We're the anthill next to a skyscraper.

So advanced they fight with light swords.

That was a critique Ebert had of Transformers, they were advanced enough to have faster than light, intergalactic travel, but waged battles with karate.

MST3K Intro

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r31eE77b-9U

"If you're wondering how he eats and breathes

And other science facts,

Just repeat to yourself "It's just a show,

I should really just relax..."

Seriously, the death star oscillator physics were so muddled and implausible it just completely ruined the overall movie watching experience and I stormed out of the theater before it was over.

I always used to be upset by how unrealistic Tigger was depicted in Winnie The Pooh, too.

LOL at suspending disbelief for a universe where flying Yodas are possible, but otherwise dissecting intricate plot minutiae.

 

[Insein]

What is the science in Star Wars? It's a fantasy movie like Harry Potter. Weird that anybody even considers it sci-fi.

Are you serious? I would be shocked if everything a galactic civilization could do DIDN'T look like magic to us. Realistically, it probably doesn't go far enough. I would expect them to break several "laws" of physics (because they've come to understand they aren't really laws at all).

We're primitives next to them. We're the anthill next to a skyscraper.

"A long time ago, in a galaxy far far away..."

 

[Insein]

Love how people are equating Star Wars universe to everything else and therefore we shouldn't expect too much from it.

"Winnie the Pooh wasn't realistic enough for me..."

"Transformers didn't seem all that real to me..."

"People must be really confused by Memento then..."

To try to explain how people shouldn't be critical of a movie. As if any of these movies have a franchise and universe as well established as Star Wars. Some of us who are huge fans simply expected more than what we got.

 

[dparker713]

Like most light saber fights in the star wars universe, she won because the plot required it. There's no good reason she won. It was the same reason the earth split right between the two them when she was about to end Vader jr.

I understand that you directly equate ability with a light saber with strength with the force. I'm just not sure why. There are other parts to the force than d light saber dueling.

 

[dparker713]

No real SciFi fans consider Star Wars SciFi.

Star Wars: Fantasy

Star Trek; SciFi

Firefly: Western

Too many people automatically think SciFi when something is in space.

Most of the Old EU had plenty of Sci-fi mixed in.

 

[dparker713]

Disclaimer: I saw ROTJ in the theater with my aunt but was too young to really remember it. Was always a big fan of the movies and the merch but got burnt out by my last long term GF who was crazy about it and got me BobaFet everything.

This new one was pretty MEH to me.

The first flight of the MF was great... I enjoyed the humor. The new characters (minus Kylo) were okay enough. BB8 was pretty awesome.

What I disliked was the repetition, the accelerated skills, the length, the weak-### bad guy.

Seriously, like, did Rey see the first movie? The way she did the Jedi mind trick was so lame... she just decided to try that? Cmon.

Definitely wouldn't go see it in theaters again. I actually kind of want to go back and watch Ep I before I see it again to maybe increase me appreciation for the new one.

I don't have kids, which I can see how that would increase your enjoyment of the film. I'm kind of surprised by how much love it's getting though.

This kind of criticism seems really silly to me. You went to a science fiction movie that has people that use magical powers. You are upset because those people figured out how to use magical powers at a rate faster than you think is standard magical power learning time.

It's one thing when you set up rules and ignore them, but there are almost no rules about the force.

If somebody thinks the actors did a bad job or didn't like the story in general I can understand that. Some criticism though is just going out of your way to criticize which to me basically means you aren't into science fiction. Thats cool too, but at least say that. These weird "gotcha" things just make little sense to me.

Reminds me of people criticizing the Star Trek reboot for being fake because Kirk got promoted too quickly.

A) Star Wars is NOT SciFi. It's fantasy.B) Kirk did get promoted too quickly and in the second movie demotions, promotions and resignations are very loosely taken in Star Fleet.

C) Zachary Quinto has no charisma

 

[Capella]

Rey's Force and lightsaber abilities aren't silly if she a) is super powerful and/or b) was already trained in them (which she almost certainly was).

Somewhat fair, and they could introduce things in 8/9 to explain it. Even with those though still tough to buy that she'd smack around Ren on her first day, when Ren had the same exact training as a kid and years of additional training on top of that, and is a Skywalker which makes him pretty much a lock to be super powerful himself.

They didn't go a great job of highlighting this in the movie (or rather the actor who played Ren didn't) but he'd also been shot with Chewie's crossbow and I think Fin took a piece out of him as well. That could have been a factor.

And they also highlighted the cross bow three different times in the movie and pretty much blowing up what ever it hit. JJ even had Han say some lines to enforce just how strong the weapon was after it sent multiple Storm Troopers flying.

That was all a set up to show that Kylo took a massive blow just before the fight.

But the fact that even though this was highlighted, it does not appear to have resonated with the audience as anyone who calls Kylo weak never seems to acknowledge how badly he might have been hurt.

=============

As a side note, I have a feeling we are going to see many more Ren's next movie so it might be best to call him Kylo to differentiate going forward.

Darth Ren by then imo

 

[snogger]

Rey's Force and lightsaber abilities aren't silly if she a) is super powerful and/or b) was already trained in them (which she almost certainly was).

I can understand the arguments on her use of the force since short of "learning" she had it when Kylo tried to read her mind she certainly picked up quickly.. Hopefully the next film will show that in the past she did have the training..

But the argument about the ability to use the lightsaber is getting a little old.. The Lightsaber is not some "magical" weapon that only Jedi's can use( although I guess there are many that feel this way not sure why though..).. It is basically a sword that can cut..

She proved earlier in the movie that she has training in regards to fighting as she fought off the two thugs trying to steal bb-8..

 

[NewlyRetired]

Rey's Force and lightsaber abilities aren't silly if she a) is super powerful and/or b) was already trained in them (which she almost certainly was).

Somewhat fair, and they could introduce things in 8/9 to explain it. Even with those though still tough to buy that she'd smack around Ren on her first day, when Ren had the same exact training as a kid and years of additional training on top of that, and is a Skywalker which makes him pretty much a lock to be super powerful himself.

They didn't go a great job of highlighting this in the movie (or rather the actor who played Ren didn't) but he'd also been shot with Chewie's crossbow and I think Fin took a piece out of him as well. That could have been a factor.

And they also highlighted the cross bow three different times in the movie and pretty much blowing up what ever it hit. JJ even had Han say some lines to enforce just how strong the weapon was after it sent multiple Storm Troopers flying.

That was all a set up to show that Kylo took a massive blow just before the fight.

But the fact that even though this was highlighted, it does not appear to have resonated with the audience as anyone who calls Kylo weak never seems to acknowledge how badly he might have been hurt.

=============

As a side note, I have a feeling we are going to see many more Ren's next movie so it might be best to call him Kylo to differentiate going forward.

Darth Ren by then imo

Ren is a title like Darth..

 

[NewlyRetired]

No real SciFi fans consider Star Wars SciFi.

Star Wars: Fantasy

Star Trek; SciFi

Firefly: Western

Too many people automatically think SciFi when something is in space.

Most of the Old EU had plenty of Sci-fi mixed in.

Agreed but we are talking about what Lucas made.

He clearly stated he was not making a SciFi movie.

 

[Righetti]

Luke is kind of a ####

Who runs out when the going gets tough. You blame yourself, boo hoo. Lots of people #### up. Pick yourself up by the bootstraps and light that saber for the good of the cause. But no, he goes off and leaves everyone behind to do some soul searching while 5 planets get blown up by the bigger version of the death star

For what it's worth he doesn't look real happy with his decision when we finally see him.

True, but still

Yoda and Obi-wan did the same thing

 

[shadyridr]

Rey's Force and lightsaber abilities aren't silly if she a) is super powerful and/or b) was already trained in them (which she almost certainly was).

I can understand the arguments on her use of the force since short of "learning" she had it when Kylo tried to read her mind she certainly picked up quickly.. Hopefully the next film will show that in the past she did have the training..But the argument about the ability to use the lightsaber is getting a little old.. The Lightsaber is not some "magical" weapon that only Jedi's can use( although I guess there are many that feel this way not sure why though..).. It is basically a sword that can cut..

She proved earlier in the movie that she has training in regards to fighting as she fought off the two thugs trying to steal bb-8..

I used to think only those who use the force can use a light saber. Does anyone else in any of the previous movies besides Finn ever use one?

 

[FUBAR]

Rey's Force and lightsaber abilities aren't silly if she a) is super powerful and/or b) was already trained in them (which she almost certainly was).

I can understand the arguments on her use of the force since short of "learning" she had it when Kylo tried to read her mind she certainly picked up quickly.. Hopefully the next film will show that in the past she did have the training..But the argument about the ability to use the lightsaber is getting a little old.. The Lightsaber is not some "magical" weapon that only Jedi's can use( although I guess there are many that feel this way not sure why though..).. It is basically a sword that can cut..

She proved earlier in the movie that she has training in regards to fighting as she fought off the two thugs trying to steal bb-8..

I used to think only those who use the force can use a light saber. Does anyone else in any of the previous movies besides Finn ever use one?

Han Solo did.

and then there's General Grievous.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Rey's Force and lightsaber abilities aren't silly if she a) is super powerful and/or b) was already trained in them (which she almost certainly was).

I can understand the arguments on her use of the force since short of "learning" she had it when Kylo tried to read her mind she certainly picked up quickly.. Hopefully the next film will show that in the past she did have the training..But the argument about the ability to use the lightsaber is getting a little old.. The Lightsaber is not some "magical" weapon that only Jedi's can use( although I guess there are many that feel this way not sure why though..).. It is basically a sword that can cut..

She proved earlier in the movie that she has training in regards to fighting as she fought off the two thugs trying to steal bb-8..

I used to think only those who use the force can use a light saber. Does anyone else in any of the previous movies besides Finn ever use one?

Han did not use it to fight but he was able to use it to cut open the tauntaun to put Luke in on Hoth.

 

[dparker713]

Rey's Force and lightsaber abilities aren't silly if she a) is super powerful and/or b) was already trained in them (which she almost certainly was).

I can understand the arguments on her use of the force since short of "learning" she had it when Kylo tried to read her mind she certainly picked up quickly.. Hopefully the next film will show that in the past she did have the training..But the argument about the ability to use the lightsaber is getting a little old.. The Lightsaber is not some "magical" weapon that only Jedi's can use( although I guess there are many that feel this way not sure why though..).. It is basically a sword that can cut..

She proved earlier in the movie that she has training in regards to fighting as she fought off the two thugs trying to steal bb-8..

I used to think only those who use the force can use a light saber. Does anyone else in any of the previous movies besides Finn ever use one?

Han Solo did.

There's a reason no one uses swords anymore

 

[NewlyRetired]

Also General Grevious was not force sensative but was able to use them. He was trained though to know how to fight with them.

 

[Insein]

Also General Grevious was not force sensative but was able to use them. He was trained though to know how to fight with them.

Not force sensitive, but heavily enhanced by cybernetics. He went toe to toe with many Jedi and could wield 4 lightsabers at the same time with ease. So doesn't really help the regular Joe theory.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Also General Grevious was not force sensative but was able to use them. He was trained though to know how to fight with them.

Not force sensitive, but heavily enhanced by cybernetics. He went toe to toe with many Jedi and could wield 4 lightsabers at the same time with ease. So doesn't really help the regular Joe theory.

That was not the question we were answering.

He asked who else used them in the movies who also did not use the force.

The answer is Han and Grevious.

 

[babydemon90]

I thought Star Wars was fantasy, set it space... Usually, Sci Fi attempts to be futuristic and scientific (scientific fiction..).

Star Wars makes no attempt to explain the force, light sabers, etc... Although one could argue the prequels and mitochlorians or whatever were attempting to move it into the realm of sci-fi, I think most agree that was a weak attempt.

 

[Insein]

Also General Grevious was not force sensative but was able to use them. He was trained though to know how to fight with them.

Not force sensitive, but heavily enhanced by cybernetics. He went toe to toe with many Jedi and could wield 4 lightsabers at the same time with ease. So doesn't really help the regular Joe theory.

That was not the question we were answering.He asked who else used them in the movies who also did not use the force.

The answer is Han and Grevious.

True. In a very literal sense.

 

[FUBAR]

Also General Grevious was not force sensative but was able to use them. He was trained though to know how to fight with them.

Not force sensitive, but heavily enhanced by cybernetics. He went toe to toe with many Jedi and could wield 4 lightsabers at the same time with ease. So doesn't really help the regular Joe theory.

That was not the question we were answering.He asked who else used them in the movies who also did not use the force.

The answer is Han and Grevious.

True. In a very literal sense.

if you're looking to answer whether a normal person could pick up and use a lightsaber, Han is the evidence for yes.

unless of course Han actually is force-sensitive but never believed enough... which might explain his excellent pilot skills in the Falcon.

 

[cstu]

Luke is kind of a ####

Who runs out when the going gets tough. You blame yourself, boo hoo. Lots of people #### up. Pick yourself up by the bootstraps and light that saber for the good of the cause. But no, he goes off and leaves everyone behind to do some soul searching while 5 planets get blown up by the bigger version of the death star

For what it's worth he doesn't look real happy with his decision when we finally see him.

True, but still

Yoda and Obi-wan did the same thing

Both ####s.

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

I bet this thread is highly entertaining.

 

[Billy Bats]

I wonder who Benecio DelToro will be related to in episode 8?

 

[Insein]

Also General Grevious was not force sensative but was able to use them. He was trained though to know how to fight with them.

Not force sensitive, but heavily enhanced by cybernetics. He went toe to toe with many Jedi and could wield 4 lightsabers at the same time with ease. So doesn't really help the regular Joe theory.

That was not the question we were answering.He asked who else used them in the movies who also did not use the force.

The answer is Han and Grevious.

True. In a very literal sense.

if you're looking to answer whether a normal person could pick up and use a lightsaber, Han is the evidence for yes.

unless of course Han actually is force-sensitive but never believed enough... which might explain his excellent pilot skills in the Falcon.

Yes a person could pick up and "use" a light saber in that it is a blunt instrument to cut things with. However, people train to use swords and there are different fighting styles. Some one that uses a bo staff has different training patterns than someone who uses a broad sword or katana.

 

[cockroach]

From wookieepedia re: light sabers (emphasis all mine)

Due to the weightlessness of plasma and the strong gyroscopic effect generated by it, lightsabers required a great deal of strength and dexterity to wield, and it was extremely difficult—and dangerous—for the untrained to attempt using. However, in the hands of an expert of the Force, the lightsaber was a weapon to be greatly respected and feared. To wield a lightsaber was to demonstrate incredible skill and confidence, as well as masterful dexterity and attunement to the Force.

So no, it's not just some sort of knife anyone can use.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

56 pages!?!?!?

 

[belljr]

From wookieepedia re: light sabers (emphasis all mine)

Due to the weightlessness of plasma and the strong gyroscopic effect generated by it, lightsabers required a great deal of strength and dexterity to wield, and it was extremely difficult—and dangerous—for the untrained to attempt using. However, in the hands of an expert of the Force, the lightsaber was a weapon to be greatly respected and feared. To wield a lightsaber was to demonstrate incredible skill and confidence, as well as masterful dexterity and attunement to the Force.

So no, it's not just some sort of knife anyone can use.

wookiepedia?!?!?!?

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

56 pages!?!?!?

some real in here imo

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

From wookieepedia re: light sabers (emphasis all mine)

Due to the weightlessness of plasma and the strong gyroscopic effect generated by it, lightsabers required a great deal of strength and dexterity to wield, and it was extremely difficult—and dangerous—for the untrained to attempt using. However, in the hands of an expert of the Force, the lightsaber was a weapon to be greatly respected and feared. To wield a lightsaber was to demonstrate incredible skill and confidence, as well as masterful dexterity and attunement to the Force.

So no, it's not just some sort of knife anyone can use.

wookiepedia?!?!?!?

you bent my wookie!

 

[Bob Sacamano]

56 pages!?!?!?

some real in here imo

tdoss?

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

56 pages!?!?!?

some real in here imo

tdoss?

Star Wars is not science fiction. It is a Space Opera.

Also, lightsabers are difficult to use per wookiepedia.

That's all I got, so far.

 

[snogger]

From wookieepedia re: light sabers (emphasis all mine)

Due to the weightlessness of plasma and the strong gyroscopic effect generated by it, lightsabers required a great deal of strength and dexterity to wield, and it was extremely difficult—and dangerous—for the untrained to attempt using. However, in the hands of an expert of the Force, the lightsaber was a weapon to be greatly respected and feared. To wield a lightsaber was to demonstrate incredible skill and confidence, as well as masterful dexterity and attunement to the Force.

So no, it's not just some sort of knife anyone can use.

wookiepedia?!?!?!?

He seemed to gloss over "extremely difficult—and dangerous—for the untrained to attempt using."

No where does it say that "no one except those that have the power of the force can use it".. Just that it can be Difficult and dangerous..

 

[dparker713]

From wookieepedia re: light sabers (emphasis all mine)

Due to the weightlessness of plasma and the strong gyroscopic effect generated by it, lightsabers required a great deal of strength and dexterity to wield, and it was extremely difficultand dangerousfor the untrained to attempt using. However, in the hands of an expert of the Force, the lightsaber was a weapon to be greatly respected and feared. To wield a lightsaber was to demonstrate incredible skill and confidence, as well as masterful dexterity and attunement to the Force.

So no, it's not just some sort of knife anyone can use.

That's not a source. That's speculation

 

[Bob Sacamano]

You wonder why no chick will let you stick your #### in her.

 

[mcintyre1]

Rey's Force and lightsaber abilities aren't silly if she a) is super powerful and/or b) was already trained in them (which she almost certainly was).

I can understand the arguments on her use of the force since short of "learning" she had it when Kylo tried to read her mind she certainly picked up quickly.. Hopefully the next film will show that in the past she did have the training..But the argument about the ability to use the lightsaber is getting a little old.. The Lightsaber is not some "magical" weapon that only Jedi's can use( although I guess there are many that feel this way not sure why though..).. It is basically a sword that can cut..

She proved earlier in the movie that she has training in regards to fighting as she fought off the two thugs trying to steal bb-8..

I used to think only those who use the force can use a light saber. Does anyone else in any of the previous movies besides Finn ever use one?

Han Solo did.

and then there's General Grievous.

I'm going through the 3D animated Clone Wars on Netflix right now for the first time and there's been numerous times that a non-Jedi picks up a lightsaber and uses it to some degree. I'm pretty sure that series is still considered Canon (though I'm sure that's mainly so Disney can continue to sell toys and stuff for it and not lose all the kids that watched it growing up).

 

[Bob Magaw]

Ren is perfecting her ability to more precisely harness the power of the Force to take out whole divisions of the New Order with atomic wedgies.

Even in the field of sci fi, there are sub-genres.

The kind written by Heinlein (there could be paragraphs on space ballistics and orbital trajectory calculation, he wrote realistically about a computer reaching sentience in The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress), Asimov (prescient in his predictions of increasingly miniaturized technology in the original Foundation trilogy) and Arthur C. Clarke (of 2001 fame won a Nobel Prize in civilian life for his concept of the geosynchronous orbit) is very different from that of Ray Bradbury (The Martian Chronicles, The Illustrated Man, Something Wicked This Way Comes, etc.), who like Lucas, may have thought of his body of work more as fantasy than sci fi.

 

[Insein]

56 pages!?!?!?

Seriously. Can't believe we're not at least at 100 yet.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

56 pages!?!?!?

some real in here imo

tdoss?

Star Wars is not science fiction. It is a Space Opera.

Also, lightsabers are difficult to use per wookiepedia.

That's all I got, so far.

I ain't reading all that. [/cyp]

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

What if they protected the death star's weak spot

Spoiler

with a series of smaller deathstars?

No way the rebels would have time for all that in just one movie.

 

[AcerFC]

Super, Sac is here with the ww shtick

 

[Bob Sacamano]

What if they protected the death star's weak spot

Spoiler

with a series of smaller deathstars?

Spoiler

No way the rebels would have time for all that in just one movie.

Xzibit meme?

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Super, Sac is here with the ww shtick

I finally saw the movie, so I thought I'd pop in and see what people's thoughts were. Imagine my surprise when I couldn't find any.

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

What if they protected the death star's weak spot

Spoiler

with a series of smaller deathstars?

Spoiler

No way the rebels would have time for all that in just one movie.

Spoiler

Xzibit meme?

something like this

But, the mustaches are ####### deathstars.

 

[Bob Magaw]

I wonder who Benecio DelToro will be related to in episode 8?

Rumored to be in the lead to play Spock in the rebooted Mexican Star Trek

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJGvn5iOERM

Jim Carrey in The Wrath Of Farrakhan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52o1d7XPni0

 

[Jaysus]

GB Super Sac!