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State Of The Board - 2018 (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Joe Bryant
- Start date
As I said in the original post on the who's hottest, there's not any kind of behind the scenes drama or anything special. I'd been thinking about dropping the who's hottest for a long time. I felt, as a lot of people did, they just seemed wrong as they devolved into crude comments that we'd try our best to delete (often after getting a bunch of "likes" from the crowd). Some of the comments in one of the threads a few weeks ago were too much and it was enough to make a change. I think we covered it pretty exhaustively in the other thread. Sorry. Nothing dramatic.
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Cowboysfan8
Footballguy
Almost every post in that subforum is combative
It's gotten horrible, I've never seen anything like it
simey
Footballguy
The board is dominated by men, but women have been members of this board for years. Women play FF, and women participate in the FFA.
Mr.Pack
Footballguy
Don't let him kid you, they're fine with the PSF as it is. None of the staff like Trump or any conservatives and they are just fine letting the Libs go on and do what they please in there. Anyone that thinks otherwise should just venture into any of those threads.
GoBirds
Footballguy
Ned
Footballguy
This sort of stuff is why the PSF gets so nasty for two reasons:
1 - Folks continually plot this us vs them mentality. Adding cute names like Libs, Trumpers,etc is going to put most on the defensive right away.
2 - Guys are going after the posters for xyz needs to stop. Go after the posts/message, not the person.
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Sorry but wrong. It's true I didn't vote for President Trump and have been critical of him. But I want to improve the discussion in the PSF. But not sure how to do it. That's why I asked here. If the FFA were a bar, the PSF is a bar fight. We've kicked them out of the bar so FFA can get back to normal. But they're still fighting in our parking lot and I don't want that either. It's just not as easy to stop as it is a real fight.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
It’s not as hard as you think. You just don’t seem to want to admit who some of the problems are because they are valuable contributors in non political threads. You pick on certain posters yourself (who are guilty by the way) but ignore others and never seem to see the full story. Which you cannot get by reading once a month or through a reported post.
It’s amazing the amount of stuff you allow in those threads compared to any other thread.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
One of the problems I see about the PSF is posters seem to think there should be a “but he started it” defense. If people would just hold themselves to a higher standard, things would improve remarkably.
jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
The only solution is more involvement from you and the staff Joe. People and their nature have changed--you cannot tame the masses through creating policy and asking the offenders to police themselves. That is doomed to fail. Look at the last couple of threads that you have started or joined in. Yes--while there are still some snarky, wise a** comments--there is still a big portion or real discussion and dialogue. I assure you that if somebody else started a "state of the board" thread that you did not actively participate in--the discussion would have a tone far closer to what is in the PSF. I think that you and your staff should consider having avatars that are alike/similar to one another that have uniformity--and you should really be more involved in a place of your business. Not only will it make things better here--but you guys are truly a part of the community. We all really enjoy seeing what you, Maurile, Rudnicki, and others think about certain things. I also think that you guys could learn a lot by doing that. Businesses are paying tons of money to learn about the thoughts/quirks/tendencies/user experiences of their customers. You have that for free right in front of you--all you (and your staff) have to do is spend some time and effort to gather it. While I think that these forums are great--there is no way to improve upon them from the sidelines. In any case--I do think that it's great that you are asking for feedback and I've personally enjoyed seeing you on the forum over the last couple of weeks.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Just so you know, I'm fully aware of that. I just do not have a notebook or scorecard like some. I'm just being honest, I'm not 'aware' of posters general characteristics beyond a few I really follow, and frankly (given what I just said) I can think of three I can really recall (between FFA, TSP). Krista fwiw shines through as someone I enjoy reading every time. If she speaks, I just read, listen & enjoy. If Joe is trying to branch out to have more self-identifying women as part his effort I fully laud that. Personally I enjoy diversity of thought, I want to be challenged (while also being respectful), and hopefully I learn something. That could be extended to the dearth of Trump followers in the PSF, because I really would love to hear that POV more, but that's an old trope. In general in terms of what's 'good for the board' diversity in thought and opinion IMO is always good and should be promoted.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Dismattle
Footballguy
Joe How do you feel about expanding the accountability in the Forum(s) Perhaps someone like rockaction among others could be given authority to delete and/or suspend posts/posters Possibly being involved w any future disciplinary actions (increase/decrease) Personally I live and thrive w the 1st amendment so No it's not something that interests me much even though I understand it may serve as necessary
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Splitting off the political side was probably the best thing. I would always get suckered in and start arguing. Now i dont as i'm too lazy to click the extra button.
Not having the threads rating/judging women is also the right thing to do. If you have an insatiable need to do so there are plenty of sites to satisfy your need. Having my wife peek in on this site occasionally and seeing these threads always led to an interesting conversation.
Im not an avid poster and i dont think ive ever been suspended. But this site (ffa not the main forum) is one of the sites i check out in a daily basis.
Not having the threads rating/judging women is also the right thing to do. If you have an insatiable need to do so there are plenty of sites to satisfy your need. Having my wife peek in on this site occasionally and seeing these threads always led to an interesting conversation.
Im not an avid poster and i dont think ive ever been suspended. But this site (ffa not the main forum) is one of the sites i check out in a daily basis.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
I like the rough and tumble of the Political Forum. Don't bring no weak #### into the lane if you want your opinions taken seriously.
GoBirds
Footballguy
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
In a perfect world--I think that could work. However--this is Joe's business-and I don't think that he should/could trust volunteers with speaking/acting for his business--and the world is far from perfect. As a manager of a very successful business myself--I can tell you that for any business to thrive--management/ownership need to be active participants in every facet. At my job--I'm constantly drowning in paperwork and administrative tasks--but I also have to force myself to go on the sales floor every now and then. The customers know me--and I've been there for 25 years--and when I remove myself from the floor too long--they almost think that the culture of our business/shop has changed--solely because they do not see a familiar face. Even if all I do is pop my head out of the back of the store to say "hi" or ask "how is your family doing" to a customer--just that reminder/point of communication makes a world of difference in the customer experience. Joe is running a business where some of its customers are blatantly being rude or bullying one another--and instead of actively stepping in--is hoping the solution can be made through policy changed that would be policed from a distance. The involvement needs to be from some sort of official staff so that it is insured that they are acting in the best interest of Joe and his company. The involvement needs to come from people who have skin in the game and whose interests are completely aligned with what Joe wants the forums to be. It'd be very hard to trust volunteeered mods to have that.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
There are several posters that refuse to get personal and show by their actions that they know where the line should be. I don’t want to make a list for you.
comfortably numb
Footballguy
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
I think the regular posters do have “skin in the game” in that they spend a lot of time here and it is important to them that the board thrives.
I also think you are underestimating what valuable contributions can be made by volunteers. Think of the wonderful work many do for charities.
Those disagreements aside, I agree with your assessment of the importance of ownership/management being actively involved. But they often have to be able to trust others.
Dismattle
Footballguy
Better to be safe than sorry amiright However, there's a case to be made for bringing the best to the top Ideally ones role changing from needed to only complimentary Definitely a skill required in choosing folks to both trust and fully train to handle both work and situations Worst case scenario one fails or frees up time to expand and/or start another business
Sorry but wrong too. There are several reported posts every day which mean going through the thread. It's the same with most every post that's reported - the person who did the reported thing thinks they're totally innocent and everyone around them is doing things way worse and they're just getting picked on or singled out by the mods. It's a giant game of whatabout. Most conservatives thinks the board is 99% liberals and most liberals thinks the board is 99% conservative. But that doesn't mean it can't be resolved. Things did get better a few months ago when I made a strong push asking for people to be way cooler. Maybe that's needed again.
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That's a fair point. I get it that it's difficult to be objective. There can be a guy who goes on tilt for someone using drumpf but has no problem using #######. That's usually how it goes.
That's a real thing too roadkill. There's definitely a more combative attitude there.
Cowboysfan8
Footballguy
Trumper, Trumpette, Gun owners are "gun nuts". Used over and over and over.
But the word "#######" is a timeout , right?
Eta: hell I can't even type it apparently. Starts with L and ends with Ard ?
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It's a possibility. I'm not sure what the software allows for moderating authority. In a perfect world it would be just for the PSF. Let me look there.
I'd be interested in the list of posters you feel would be good. Please post them here or send me a PM. Thanks.
jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
Joe- you just answered your own question. Things get better when you are actively involved. It happened 2 months ago-- and when you disappeared for a while it devolved. Active involvement is the only solution. This doesn't mean over moderation. I assure you that if you guys had a consistent and stable presence on the boards-- the effect will result in better behavior by most posters. This will be more inviting for new users and for more discussion. I know this requires time/resources-- but do not over think solutions when the answer is right in front of you.
Perfect example.
Is ####### (libt and then ard) worse than trumper? I think it is and it's why it's blocked. But there will be people who think trumper is just as bad or way worse.
I've made the decision to not allow ####### but allow trumper not to be blocked. So for the guy who's cool with #######, I'm now biased. That's just how it works.
People basically want everything they say to be cool with no limits but for the "other" guy to be held accountable.
And the truth is interpreting a ton of gray area.
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Yes. The big problem is time. There are things that make the site money and allow the boards to exist that demand way more of my time. And it takes a ton of time. If something way out of line is posted and stays online for 4 hours, that becomes the new thing "Obviously Joe is cool with". It takes a ton of time. That's the big issue. And it's likely the same issue many businesses face.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Considering lib**** it is a twist on the word re****, which in itself is highly insulting, I get why that "word" is not allowed. There is no point in using that "word" in an intelligent political conversation, meaning the only reason to use it is trolling, since it is meant to get a rise out of people.
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Cowboysfan8
Footballguy
So anyone who doesn't kill Trump every day in every thread is a Trumpette, and anyone who doesn't support a gun ban or at the very least an AR ban is a gun nut. Perfectly acceptable
And if those people would like to address someone who is obviously very liberal they should stick to "left of center".
Good stuff
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Do you think lib**** is an appropriate "word" to use when addressing or referring to a liberal? Simple question.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Yeah lib**** is way worse than Drumpf. I think Drumpf is on par with something like Crapernick.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
I hestitate to do that because I have no idea if the people I listed would even want to do it. My suggestion is to ask for volunteers in a PSF thread. If posters expressed interest (who knows...maybe nobody would!) then review posting history and get feedback from the mods to determine if they would be suitable.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Agreed. I can't even remember, are those kinds of nicknames for Kaepernick even allowed? I know Joe loves him some squis, so I wouldn't be surprised if he banned twisting his name into an insult.
Okay.
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
The politics forum is 99% inability to have an adult discussion. The advent of 140 characters, anonymous comment sections and Google answering any question has made people think their stupidity/ignorance/lack of facts warrants constitutional protections without any semblance of understanding of context or language. And no one knows how to take a punch anymore.
dgreen
Footballguy
Maybe there should be sections/forums/threads that only allow “approved” members to post. The problem with banning people seems to be that it is ineffective because it is so easy to create another account and jump right back into the conversation. A new account should have to work their way up by displaying the ability to contribute positively before they can post in a certain sub forum or thread.
Not saying I definitely like the idea, but it’s just a brainstorm.
Not saying I definitely like the idea, but it’s just a brainstorm.
jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
You are absolutely right. Our business is brick and mortar and the vast majority of our business is done through customers that walk through our front doors. However--in the last few years--we have allotted a large budget and many worker hours towards our online and social media presence. Even though the vast majority of our business is still done through people walking through our doors--we have started to notice an increase of new clients that are doing business with us because of our online impression/footprint. My point is that many business decisions are back loaded. We had to put up time and resources up front to start seeing the benefits of those sacrifices later.
In the world of online businesses--I think consumers are looking for full experiential packages--and your forums can absolutely be a haven used to attract new customers if they are managed properly. That's just my opinion. If you feel like the forums are relegated to being a "non-contributor" to the bottom line of your business--then maybe you should hope that it polices itself from a distance. If that is indeed your stance--my advice might be to change the name of the forums and take them out of the FBG umbrella. Go through the PSF and ask yourself--would you pay to subscribe for anything that shares the same name with that place if you are a new user? I'm a long time member of this forum and even I avoid that place like the plague. Keep in mind that I graduated with a degree in political science--so I would absolutely love to have a good, civil and rational discussion about politics. Heck--go through the basketball thread. Posters were getting clowned by long time FBG members for speculating their thoughts on where Lebron could land next season. Why on gods earth should people get clowned for mentioning their thoughts on a very basketball relevant topic in the NBA thread? Seeing this type of behavior on threads does not invite discussion and it does not invite community. It probably scares many potential new people from posting their thoughts on these forums--and this limits the upside from the forums in a business sense. What I see here is the essentially the same group of people as time goes by--and we slowly seem to be losing some over time. If you choose to passively participate in these forums--the trend will continue. If you think that these forums can act as a very beneficial part of the FBG umbrella in the future--my advice is to bite the bullet and invest more time and resources to them. In any case--I do appreciate you taking the time to listen to my thoughts. Digest them as you please.
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GoBirds
Footballguy
I feel like the bias is probably unintentional on Joe’s part as it seems he really thinks it’s fair. Unfortunately it’s moderated as a one way venting thread. I had a multi month ban for a liberal joke not aimed at anyone just kidding. A week ago there was a thread saying if you are racist you are Republican and no punishment beyond thread locked. If you don’t want to partake in the group think bashing potus I guess you have to steer clear.
Thanks. That's how I see it too. But clearly you have others like @Cowboysfan8 who don't see it that. I make a decision that ####### isn't allowed and it turns into:
That's a perfect illustration of some of the challenges on the board.
We've made a pretty big deal out of not allowing ####### as it's a joke using the word we dont' allow for mentally handicapped people. You were suspended 30 days in May of 2017 for:
Again, this is the kind of thing I'm talking about. Anything someone does themselves is harmless. But the "other" side is the one that gets away with everything.
And for sure, zero interest in trying to debate specific suspensions here. As we said earlier, there's no upside there beyond letting people know what they did. And these have been on the conservative side. For sure, they liberal side guys who get suspended have the same reaction that they're being picked on while the "other" guy is allowed to troll at will.
