Steve Smith - when all is said and done, HoF? (1 Viewer)

[Ghost Rider]

Pass happy? That offense ran through Thurman in it's glory days ... he was leading the NFL in yards from scrimmage repeatedly. If you don't like the team records, that's fine, but I listed several other factors, which were slightly more compelling. The guy's numbers remain amongst the greatest ever.

Among the greatest ever? He is not top 10 in catches, yards or TDs, and he only is in the top 15 in each cause he played for so long. He is the WR equivalent of Jerome Bettis: a compiler.

-Only three top 10 finishes in receiving yards

-Only four top 10 finishes in TD catches, none of which were top 5

Meanwhile, Jim Kelly finished in the top 10 in pass attempts in the majority of the seasons he played, so yeah, I would say that their offense was pass happy. Yes, the offense ran through Thurman Thomas, but he had 472 catches, so a lot of that was through the air.

 

[Hoss Style]

If you got a chance to watch Steve Smith play in his prime, then you know he was the best WR in the league at one point. His play dipped when his QB play dipped. Now, he has an above average QB and he's showing what he can do at probably 75% of what he used to be.

Sometimes it's hard to use numbers to justify an argument over an entire career - injuries, QB play, team game plans, etc all affect it. I can't add anything that others haven't already said. Sometimes you just have to have seen a guy play, and I'll never forget him dominating the League when his QB was throwing the ball well. He was uncoverable (<-- I don't think that's a word).

If his numbers are anywhere close to what the nerds on TV say you "have to have" to be in the HoF, then Smith should get in based on what he was able to cook with the ingredients provided to him.

 

[Blick]

No Hines no Smith.

• Location:Pittsburgh

I knew to look for that after this comment. Hines Ward was never an All-Pro. Never was in the top-3 in receiving yards. Isn't in the top-20 in receiving yardage all time, and is only tied for 15th in TDs. There's no way he has a stronger resume than Steve Smith is going to end up with, especially if Smith plays out this season and finishes with good overall numbers.

That said, I don't think either of them deserve it. Ward may be more likely to get in via the vets committee because of the Pittsburgh factor.

I'm not suggesting that either are HOF worthy. I just look at each as very similar players. Both played (for the most part) on run first, defensive minded teams. Both wear their heart on the sleeve and are fierce competitors.

Just looking at the stats, they are pretty similar.

Smith - 186 Games, 861 Rec, 12626 Yards, 70 TDs

Ward - 217 Games, 1000 Rec, 12083 Yards, 85 TDs

It doesn't hurt that Ward has 2 rings and was a superbowl MVP. Say what you want, but it also helps to be known, whether its real or not, for something special (i.e. besting blocking WR ever). Pro bowls are also about equal at 4 to 5.

 

[Adam Harstad]

Also, I'd unenshrine Andre Reed while I was at it. He was a very good receiver, but nowhere near as good as these other guys.

Well why would you go and do a thing like that? When he retired he had the 3rd most receptions all-time, 6th most receiving yards all-time and 6th most TDs receiving all-time. (He's still #11, #13 and #13 all-time in those categories despite the game shifting away from running to passing.) He made his living going over the middle and getting hammered. He still was a beast after the catch. Not to mention he played in 4 Superbowls, 5 AFC Championships, 7 Pro-Bowls. 14 team records. 13 seasons with 50+ catches. Guy was a stud!

Because he was a very good receiver, but nowhere near as good as these other guys?

 

[Ever Present Lurker]

Also, I'd unenshrine Andre Reed while I was at it. He was a very good receiver, but nowhere near as good as these other guys.

Well why would you go and do a thing like that? When he retired he had the 3rd most receptions all-time, 6th most receiving yards all-time and 6th most TDs receiving all-time. (He's still #11, #13 and #13 all-time in those categories despite the game shifting away from running to passing.) He made his living going over the middle and getting hammered. He still was a beast after the catch. Not to mention he played in 4 Superbowls, 5 AFC Championships, 7 Pro-Bowls. 14 team records. 13 seasons with 50+ catches. Guy was a stud!

Because he was a very good receiver, but nowhere near as good as these other guys?

STUD!!!

 

[Bri]

If you got a chance to watch Steve Smith play in his prime, then you know he was the best WR in the league at one point.

never

 

[Bri]

Zero 100 yard games in 2010 or 2013

His high game in 2013 was 69 yards

 

[Bri]

If you wanna talk small WRs, totally changes things here.

(Another discussion another day, but I suppose you could actually make a case you'll need height to be a HOF WR past 1990 1995 or so)

It is amazing what he's done at 5 foot 9.

It doesn't make me think he's better than Calvin it reminds me of Muggsy Bogues and Spud Webb

 

[Archer]

Gary Clark and Steve Smith are 2 of the best vertically challenged WRs during my lifetime

 

[Adam Harstad]

Zero 100 yard games in 2010 or 2013

His high game in 2013 was 69 yards

He was 34 years old in 2013. Here is a list of some other players who never had a 100 yard receiving game in their age-34 season:

Randy Moss (his last one was at age 32)

Torry Holt (he had one at age 33 and zero at age 32)

Art Monk (although Monk did have one 100-yard game at age 36)

Michael Irvin

Steve Largent

Andre Reed had one 100 yard game after his 34th birthday, which Steve Smith has already passed (he has three so far this year). Also, please note that I'm strictly limiting myself to receivers from the last 20 years who are either in the Hall of Fame, or who have a great chance of joining the Hall of Fame.

As for 2010... his quarterbacks were Jimmy Clausen, Matt Moore, and Brian St. Pierre. Those guys are bad at football.

Steve Smith has topped 100 receiving yards three times in his first four games this year. If he gets three more before he retires, he'll move into a tie for the 10th most 100-yard games after a player's 34th birthday in history.

 

[Tau837]

Zero 100 yard games in 2010 or 2013

His high game in 2013 was 69 yards

He was 34 years old in 2013. Here is a list of some other players who never had a 100 yard receiving game in their age-34 season:

Randy Moss (his last one was at age 32)

Torry Holt (he had one at age 33 and zero at age 32)

Art Monk (although Monk did have one 100-yard game at age 36)

Michael Irvin

Steve Largent

Andre Reed had one 100 yard game after his 34th birthday, which Steve Smith has already passed (he has three so far this year). Also, please note that I'm strictly limiting myself to receivers from the last 20 years who are either in the Hall of Fame, or who have a great chance of joining the Hall of Fame.

As for 2010... his quarterbacks were Jimmy Clausen, Matt Moore, and Brian St. Pierre. Those guys are bad at football.

Steve Smith has topped 100 receiving yards three times in his first four games this year. If he gets three more before he retires, he'll move into a tie for the 10th most 100-yard games after a player's 34th birthday in history.

But every WR you named in this post other than Smith had built a HOF caliber body of work before age 34. So it didn't matter what they did at age 34 and beyond. Apples and oranges.

 

[Adam Harstad]

But every WR you named in this post other than Smith had built a HOF caliber body of work before age 34. So it didn't matter what they did at age 34 and beyond. Apples and oranges.

Just pointing out that a bad age-34 season is not that unusual among elite receivers, and Smith seems to be making up for lost time at age 35.

 

[Hoss Style]

If you got a chance to watch Steve Smith play in his prime, then you know he was the best WR in the league at one point.

never

Who was better in 2005? Smith led the league in receptions, receiving yards, receiving touchdowns. In their two playoff wins he had 10 receptions and 2 TDs, and then followed that with 12 for 218 yards and 2 TDs.

All that aside, I watched him in every game that year, and he was the best. No one could stop him. When Delhomme was throwing it well, Smith was his man. Who was better in 2005?

 

[Hoss Style]

Zero 100 yard games in 2010 or 2013

His high game in 2013 was 69 yards

He was 34 years old in 2013. Here is a list of some other players who never had a 100 yard receiving game in their age-34 season:

Randy Moss (his last one was at age 32)

Torry Holt (he had one at age 33 and zero at age 32)

Art Monk (although Monk did have one 100-yard game at age 36)

Michael Irvin

Steve Largent

Andre Reed had one 100 yard game after his 34th birthday, which Steve Smith has already passed (he has three so far this year). Also, please note that I'm strictly limiting myself to receivers from the last 20 years who are either in the Hall of Fame, or who have a great chance of joining the Hall of Fame.

As for 2010... his quarterbacks were Jimmy Clausen, Matt Moore, and Brian St. Pierre. Those guys are bad at football.

Steve Smith has topped 100 receiving yards three times in his first four games this year. If he gets three more before he retires, he'll move into a tie for the 10th most 100-yard games after a player's 34th birthday in history.

But every WR you named in this post other than Smith had built a HOF caliber body of work before age 34. So it didn't matter what they did at age 34 and beyond. Apples and oranges.

Sort of apples and oranges. His opportunities are coming at different times than other's might. Also, he takes care of himself enough so that he can take advantage of it at this point. Still, career numbers are totaled at the end - it's not as important at what point during the career that the numbers are amassed.

 

[TwinTurbo]

If you got a chance to watch Steve Smith play in his prime, then you know he was the best WR in the league at one point.

never

Who was better in 2005? Smith led the league in receptions, receiving yards, receiving touchdowns. In their two playoff wins he had 10 receptions and 2 TDs, and then followed that with 12 for 218 yards and 2 TDs.

All that aside, I watched him in every game that year, and he was the best. No one could stop him. When Delhomme was throwing it well, Smith was his man. Who was better in 2005?

Yeah 2005 was his year. You could make a case for Fitz as well. But he had Warner passing it and Boldin on the other side. Smith had Delhomme and was coming back from a broken leg.

 

[Faust]

Eric Edholm ‏@Eric_Edholm 5m5 minutes ago

You guys know how I feel about Steve Smith & HOF. With 738 more rec. yards, he'll be in 14,000-yard club — only 9 other men currently there.

 

[Faust]

Steve Smith can't be underestimated

 

[NCCommish]

I really hope Steve will retire a Panther. I know he and Gettleman aren't best buds but the fans love Steve. I hope he'll do it for us.

 

[BassNBrew]

I really hope Steve will retire a Panther. I know he and Gettleman aren't best buds but the fans love Steve. I hope he'll do it for us.

I think that's a stone cold lock.

 

[TripItUp]

I really hope so.

The man has a heart the size of Texas. Always been a fan.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

I really hope Steve will retire a Panther. I know he and Gettleman aren't best buds but the fans love Steve. I hope he'll do it for us.

I have never understood the need to retire with a team on some administrative, one-day contract. He is a Panther, Montana was a 49er, Namath a Jet and Dorsett a Cowboy.

No harm in it I guess, but I just don't see the need. Still, if it gives you pleasure, I hope it happens.

 

[Faust]

Making the Hall of Fame case for Steve Smith:

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/174021/making-the-hall-of-fame-case-for-steve-smith

 

[Snotbubbles]

If Jerome Bettis got in the HOF, pretty much anyone who plays 10+ years could get in.

 

[NCCommish]

I really hope Steve will retire a Panther. I know he and Gettleman aren't best buds but the fans love Steve. I hope he'll do it for us.

I have never understood the need to retire with a team on some administrative, one-day contract. He is a Panther, Montana was a 49er, Namath a Jet and Dorsett a Cowboy.No harm in it I guess, but I just don't see the need. Still, if it gives you pleasure, I hope it happens.

Just makes the "for life" a little more official.

 

[Faust]

Thirteen Steve Smith moments we'll never forget

 

[Faust]

The definitive Hall of Fame case for Steve Smith

 

[NCCommish]

Thirteen Steve Smith moments we'll never forget

And that's why we love him here. I have never seen anything like that broken arm catch.

 

[BassNBrew]

Getting closer...

 

[Judge Smails]

If Jerome Bettis got in the HOF, pretty much anyone who plays 10+ years could get in.

True

 

[FUBAR]

Getting closer...

I'm still not voting for him but you're right, closer.

 

[cubbie5150]

60 receptions away from 1,000. Before the season started, I had my doubts he'd reach that (he was at 915 to start the year), but given the lack of targets for Flacco, if Smiff stays healthy, he'll get there easily.

 

[flapgreen]

I think so. Keeps amazing

 

[renesauz]

Was leaning towards no a year ago....leaning the other way now

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Hall of Bad Ass'ness.

 

[BassNBrew]

Just typed out a long post and lost it. Basically he's looking at finishing 12 on the career recpt list and 8th/9th on the yardage list. Has an outside shot for the best season ever by a WR 35 or older to start the year.

So is he just compiling this year or making a statement that he's one of the best ever?

 

[Anarchy99]

Just typed out a long post and lost it. Basically he's looking at finishing 12 on the career recpt list and 8th/9th on the yardage list. Has an outside shot for the best season ever by a WR 35 or older to start the year.

So is he just compiling this year or making a statement that he's one of the best ever?

Boldin has more receptions and is pretty close to Smith in career yardage. Boldin has actually averaged more yds/gm than Smith has. Are people thinking Boldin gets in?

 

[Tau837]

Just typed out a long post and lost it. Basically he's looking at finishing 12 on the career recpt list and 8th/9th on the yardage list. Has an outside shot for the best season ever by a WR 35 or older to start the year.

So is he just compiling this year or making a statement that he's one of the best ever?

Boldin has more receptions and is pretty close to Smith in career yardage. Boldin has actually averaged more yds/gm than Smith has. Are people thinking Boldin gets in?

I don't see Smith as a HOF player, but this is pretty silly. Smith had a much higher peak than Boldin and has more yards and TDs. Receptions are less important. And you know this.

 

[BassNBrew]

Just typed out a long post and lost it. Basically he's looking at finishing 12 on the career recpt list and 8th/9th on the yardage list. Has an outside shot for the best season ever by a WR 35 or older to start the year.

So is he just compiling this year or making a statement that he's one of the best ever?

Boldin has more receptions and is pretty close to Smith in career yardage. Boldin has actually averaged more yds/gm than Smith has. Are people thinking Boldin gets in?

Should get consideration.

Smith does have a triple crown season and this could be his 9th 1000 yd season which would tie him for second with Jimmy Smith and Tim Brown.

 

[Skoo]

I think he should.

To play as well as he has, for as long as he has, with his SIZE, is just incredible.

It's one thing to be Megatron at 35 and still be able to grab jump balls because you're 6 foot 5, but to be this good at his age and size is quite an accomplishment IMO.

I'm only 33, but I've never seen anything like it.

 

[Judge Smails]

It's an awfully watered down HOF if he gets in. But then again, I've always thought the NFL was watered down. Baseball much harder to get in.

 

[tangfoot]

It's an awfully watered down HOF if he gets in. But then again, I've always thought the NFL was watered down. Baseball much harder to get in.

I was going to try to argue this, but Jerome Bettis.

 

[Anarchy99]

Just typed out a long post and lost it. Basically he's looking at finishing 12 on the career recpt list and 8th/9th on the yardage list. Has an outside shot for the best season ever by a WR 35 or older to start the year.

So is he just compiling this year or making a statement that he's one of the best ever?

Boldin has more receptions and is pretty close to Smith in career yardage. Boldin has actually averaged more yds/gm than Smith has. Are people thinking Boldin gets in?

Should get consideration.

Smith does have a triple crown season and this could be his 9th 1000 yd season which would tie him for second with Jimmy Smith and Tim Brown.

In 203 games, Smith has produced 951-13772-76. In 179 games, Boldin has produced 971-12778-72. Not that far apart (not that I am pushing for Boldin to be a HOF candidate).

 

[tangfoot]

Just typed out a long post and lost it. Basically he's looking at finishing 12 on the career recpt list and 8th/9th on the yardage list. Has an outside shot for the best season ever by a WR 35 or older to start the year.

So is he just compiling this year or making a statement that he's one of the best ever?

Boldin has more receptions and is pretty close to Smith in career yardage. Boldin has actually averaged more yds/gm than Smith has. Are people thinking Boldin gets in?

Should get consideration.

Smith does have a triple crown season and this could be his 9th 1000 yd season which would tie him for second with Jimmy Smith and Tim Brown.

In 203 games, Smith has produced 951-13772-76. In 179 games, Boldin has produced 971-12778-72. Not that far apart (not that I am pushing for Boldin to be a HOF candidate).

Because he has better numbers in 1.5 fewer seasons, Boldin has VASTLY outplayed Smith.

 

[mjm3773]

Straight raw stats don't tell the whole story. Context matters.

One, Smith barely played WR his first season, he was almost strictly a returner, so that negates most of the games played difference with Boldin.

Then add in the facts that Boldin played on teams that threw more (more opportunities to rack up stats), has played with better QBs than Smith their entire careers until the last couple of years, and the fact Smith was often the only WR threat on his teams while for most of his prime, Boldin had Fitzgerald taking coverage away from Boldin.

Then throw in the fact that Smiff is arguably the greatest postseason WR ever.

I cannot reiterate enough how much context matters (in the same way a .300 hitter in the Astrodome was likely a better hitter than a .300 hitter in Coors Field.

 

[Adam Harstad]

Steve Smith's 336 receiving yards in back-to-back games earlier this year was the highest two-game total by a 35+ receiver in history. Terrell Owens was the only other receiver to top 300, (324 in a two-game stretch for Cincinnati).

Here is a complete list of players who have had 8 or more 100+ yard games at age 35 or older: Steve Smith, Jerry Rice.

 

[Adam Harstad]

Here is a complete list of modern, (post-1960), players who received a higher percentage of their team's total receiving yards over their best six seasons than Steve Smith: Lance Alworth, Michael Irvin.

Here is a complete list of receivers who averaged more career yards per game playing on teams that averaged fewer pass attempts per game than Steve Smith: Lance Alworth, Don Hutson.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Here is a complete list of modern, (post-1960), players who received a higher percentage of their team's total receiving yards over their best six seasons than Steve Smith: Lance Alworth, Michael Irvin.

Here is a complete list of receivers who averaged more career yards per game playing on teams that averaged fewer pass attempts per game than Steve Smith: Lance Alworth, Don Hutson.

Bambi!

 

[spider321]

Good.

Never great.

 

[Adam Harstad]

Good.

Never great.

Here is a complete list of every player in history who averaged more receiving yards per team pass attempt than Steve Smith's 4.04 in 2008:

(I hear his 2005 season was decent, too.)

 

[Adam Harstad]

Here is a complete list of modern, (post-1960), players who received a higher percentage of their team's total receiving yards over their best six seasons than Steve Smith: Lance Alworth, Michael Irvin.

Here is a complete list of receivers who averaged more career yards per game playing on teams that averaged fewer pass attempts per game than Steve Smith: Lance Alworth, Don Hutson.

Bambi!

I could drop so many great Lance Alworth stats if this were a Lance Alworth thread. For my money, Alworth, Rice, and Hutson were the top-3 receivers in history, and everyone else is jockeying for fourth place. With all due respect to Mr. Hutson, no receiver had a more sustained and dominant peak than Bambi, who from 1963-1968 averaged 1588 yards and 14.6 touchdowns for every 16 games played, earning a WR-record six straight first-team AP All Pro nods.