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Steven Jackson and Torry Holt (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter george
- Start date
AnonymousBob
Footballguy
I worked out a trade in the preseason where I had the chance to get Holt or Marshall...wish I hadn't taken Holt now.
packersfan
Footballguy
I took Holt over Boldin as my WR2 in my PPR league. I'm hoping that doesn't prove to be a mistake.
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sholditch
Footballguy
Honestly have never been that high on either of them this season as I think the Rams are still one of the five worst teams in the league and their o-line is still not all that healthy (or good). I think we can expect slightly better than this weeks game but I am not planning on making offers for either player. St. Louis's defense is so bad that almost anyone can come in there and drop them like the Eagles did. I mean, Hank Baskett, Greg Lewis, and DeSean Jackson all went over 100 yards on them. That is freaking pathetic considering one guy is a rookie and the other two are basically scrubs.
packersfan
Footballguy
True. But the Rams were horrible last season and Holt still caught 93 passes. I have to believe things will get better for him. I'm not as high on Jackson. I think his situation is very similar to Larry Johnson's last year - talented RB has a long holdout on a terrible team - and we saw how bad LJ was last year. I think Jackson could have a similar type of season.
packersfan
Footballguy
Don't know about Jackson but Holt had a whopping 2 targets. When Bulger did throw he seemed much more interested throwing to McMichael, Hall and Bennett.
comfortably numb
Footballguy
Sit tight fellas, and if your shopping...week 6 or 7 is a good time
9 vs Cardinals
10 at Jets
11 at 49ers
12 vs Bears
13 vs Dolphins
14 at Cardinals
15 vs Seahawks
16 vs 49ers
9 vs Cardinals
10 at Jets
11 at 49ers
12 vs Bears
13 vs Dolphins
14 at Cardinals
15 vs Seahawks
16 vs 49ers
Anonymous Internet User
Footballguy
OMG Rams are terrible I traded SJax and Holt for Michael Jenkins
AnonymousBob
Footballguy
Discussing whether the Rams are a buy low, hold or sell is an entirely reasonable topic. If you don't like it I've no doubt there are numerous other threads for you to troll.
Butters
Footballguy
I'm not discounting Holt that much. Going into Week 1 I had my WRs going as such...
1. A. Johnson
....
2./3. Cotchery / Holt (close)
....
4. L. Evans
5. D. Mason
At this point I have him in roughly the same spot, but delineated from Cotch squarely into the #3 option with Evans getting closer.
1. A. Johnson
....
2. Cotchery
3. Holt
4. L. Evans
....
5. D. Mason
1. A. Johnson
....
2./3. Cotchery / Holt (close)
....
4. L. Evans
5. D. Mason
At this point I have him in roughly the same spot, but delineated from Cotch squarely into the #3 option with Evans getting closer.
1. A. Johnson
....
2. Cotchery
3. Holt
4. L. Evans
....
5. D. Mason
Warehouse Nasty
Footballguy
There is a huge difference between Johnson and Jackson and that is that Jackson is very effective out of the backfield while Johnson isn't, allowing Jackson to stay in games and put up points late even when they're getting beat.With the Rams soft schedule, Jackson will finish as a top 5 RB provided he stays healthy.
Hedgehog
Footballguy
Wow that is a cake schedule down the stretch (except Bears) - try to stay around .500 and then watch them improve big time during this stretch. I dont care how bad the Rams are - with that schedule it may be a good time to buy low!
packersfan
Footballguy
Johnson caught 41 passes in 2006 and had 30 receptions in only eight games last season. He is also effective out of the backfield.
Warehouse Nasty
Footballguy
So if you add up his last 24 games played he's had 71 catches which is still 19 less than Jackson had in all of 2006.These 2 are far from equals in the passing game. That, combined with STL's soft schedule this year makes the constant Jackson 08-Johnson 07 comparisons simplistic at best IMO.
packersfan
Footballguy
In your opinion. In mine, the similarities were too striking to ignore and that's why I avoided Jackson this year.
gump
Footballguy
I was burned by LJ last year, and was faced with the prospect of SJax at #6 this year. I went with him for 3 reasons:1) the fact he had 90 catches in '06
2) his easy schedule, especially late
3) not coming off a 400 carry season
I thought about it long and hard, but those differences between he and LJ were too much for me to ignore.
Ridgelake
Footballguy
I have to say that I was very surprised by how badly the game went yesterday. Sometimes a game gets out of hand and things steamroll from there. It happens. Cleveland last year comes to mind.
In many ways, Philly was a really bad matchup for the Rams. Philly is a heavy blitz team and the rams don't have a good O-line. Philly is also a big passing team and the Rams struggle there as well.
Lets see how the season progresses. I generally agree that the Rams are a bottom 5 NFL team. But they will be better than yesterday going forward.
In many ways, Philly was a really bad matchup for the Rams. Philly is a heavy blitz team and the rams don't have a good O-line. Philly is also a big passing team and the Rams struggle there as well.
Lets see how the season progresses. I generally agree that the Rams are a bottom 5 NFL team. But they will be better than yesterday going forward.
packersfan
Footballguy
Yesterday's game marked the first time in four years Holt had only one reception in a game.
wraith5
Footballguy
Bad timing for me... looks like that performance coupled with Addai cost me game #1. I am not panicing yet.
TheFanatic
Footballguy
Bennett left the game early with an injury
TheFanatic
Footballguy
I think the bad blood between Linehan and Holt has not subsided. Moose Johnson said that he was really surprised at how few plays Holt was in on. And considering Bennett leaving the game early that is saying something. I wonder if the coach benched Holt at a couple of points during the game for Holt taking plays off?
SJax I'm not as worried about. He had all the carries except for a BS quasi reverse/inside handout to Dante Hall. No other RB in the league got all the RB carries in a game so far this year. If SJax's number is called he gets the hand off. If a passing play is called and Holt is not open then Bulger checks down. So Holt can dog it and his numbers will suffer. SJax played hard yesterday. Holt, I'm not so sure. He wasn't on the field enough for me to tell...
SJax I'm not as worried about. He had all the carries except for a BS quasi reverse/inside handout to Dante Hall. No other RB in the league got all the RB carries in a game so far this year. If SJax's number is called he gets the hand off. If a passing play is called and Holt is not open then Bulger checks down. So Holt can dog it and his numbers will suffer. SJax played hard yesterday. Holt, I'm not so sure. He wasn't on the field enough for me to tell...
Max Power
Footballguy
Has Holt ever been known to dog it?
packersfan
Footballguy
If you have Houshmandzadeh too you could share in my misery. My first three picks stunk up the joint in Week 1.
packersfan
Footballguy
I know. I believe he had more targets even then than Holt had in the entire game.
TheFanatic
Footballguy
Not at all. But him not being on the field is something for grave concern. The Eagles have 3 very good CB's. The Rams needed all hands on deck. They even lined up with Jackson in the slot. If Lito Shepherd is covering Dante Hall, the team is in for a long game....Has Holt ever been known to dog it?
wraith5
Footballguy
MJD. My first 4 picks combined outscored Hines Ward by 1 point.If you have Houshmandzadeh too you could share in my misery. My first three picks stunk up the joint in Week 1.Bad timing for me... looks like that performance coupled with Addai cost me game #1.
I am not panicing yet.
gump
Footballguy
SJax had 7 targets...all the carries. That's promising.
Cookiemonster
Footballguy
It T.O. goes for 100+TD next week, I'll sell Holt regardless of what he does on my bench behind Cotch. If the Eagles contain T.O. I'll give the credit to a possible stud D.
pollardsvision
Footballguy
i thought we all knew the rams would be horrible?
the rams demonstrating that that assumption is likely correct shouldn't change things.
did people draft s-jax thinking the rams would actually be playing with a lead?
the rams demonstrating that that assumption is likely correct shouldn't change things.
did people draft s-jax thinking the rams would actually be playing with a lead?
footballnerd
Footballguy
WHERE'S TORRY? - STLToday.com
Torry Holt's 10th NFL season couldn't have begun in quieter fashion. Holt had the ball thrown to him only a couple of times and finished with one catch for 9 yards. The last time he finished with one catch (or none) in a game was 2004, when he had one catch for 4 yards against Miami.
"They doubled him a lot and singled up our (flanker) a lot," quarterback Marc Bulger said. "And once Drew got hurt, they stayed in that."
Bulger said he probably should have tried to check down the ball more to Steven Jackson to counteract the Eagles' coverage.
Link
Torry Holt's 10th NFL season couldn't have begun in quieter fashion. Holt had the ball thrown to him only a couple of times and finished with one catch for 9 yards. The last time he finished with one catch (or none) in a game was 2004, when he had one catch for 4 yards against Miami.
"They doubled him a lot and singled up our (flanker) a lot," quarterback Marc Bulger said. "And once Drew got hurt, they stayed in that."
Bulger said he probably should have tried to check down the ball more to Steven Jackson to counteract the Eagles' coverage.
Link
gump
Footballguy
So the QB thinks he should have given Jackson more than 7 targets...good to hear.
packersfan
Footballguy
If teams are doubling Holt, then the Rams need to come up with ways to free him up to get him the ball. This isn't rocket science. You're not very good to begin with, but you're horrible when your best WR is a non-factor and you do nothing to try and change that.
Things aren't going to get any easier this week when an even heavier blitz team in the Giants comes to town
footballnerd
Footballguy
Ya I can totally see that happening based off of last years many sacks of Bulger. Man....I gotta start Holt anyways.
TheFanatic
Footballguy
Yeah, what happened to the dynamic O they were talking about this offseason by bringing Saunders back? SJax has great hands. Is it too much to ask for one screen a game?packersfan said:
packersfan
Footballguy
The Holt situation reminds me a bit of the Deion Branch Week 1 opener last year. In that game, Branch did not catch a pass. Even though the Seahawks won, Mike Holmgren knew he made a mistake not getting the ball to his No. 1 WR more often. I wrote on the boards last year that I was 100% convinced Holmgren would change that in Week 2 and sure enough, Branch had a big game (he even was targeted on Seattle's first play from scrimmage).
Now Holmgren is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Linehan as a head coach but the same formula applies. When you do nothing to get your top WR involved in the offense and you lose, the smart head coach realizes he needs to correct that going forward. Now it won't be easy against the Giants but I'd be very surprised if there wasn't a concerted effort to get Holt the ball much more on Sunday.
I can't believe any head coach - even Linehan - would concede in back-to-back games and voluntarily remove Holt from the offense, hoping to win an NFL game throwing to Dante Hall and Randy McMichael all the time.
Now Holmgren is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Linehan as a head coach but the same formula applies. When you do nothing to get your top WR involved in the offense and you lose, the smart head coach realizes he needs to correct that going forward. Now it won't be easy against the Giants but I'd be very surprised if there wasn't a concerted effort to get Holt the ball much more on Sunday.
I can't believe any head coach - even Linehan - would concede in back-to-back games and voluntarily remove Holt from the offense, hoping to win an NFL game throwing to Dante Hall and Randy McMichael all the time.
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
linehan needs to win & he needs to start soon or he loses his job... hard to believe linehan doesn't think holt gives the team the best chance to win... to not play him due to lingering personal animosity (which may exist) would be cutting off his nose to spite his face...
as mike matusow would say, you guys are both idjits. and anyone who expected big things from tj houshmandzadeh was seriously on drugs. look at the second half of last year to see the trends. holt had 4 of his final 6 games with less than 60 yards receiving. housh was really shut down after the first six weeks or so. i expect them both to be average at best this year.
Tanner9919
Footballguy
With a pass-happy offensive system.This system is predicated on rushing and throwing to the TE's...not much action going towards the WR's in an Al Saunders' offense..the writing was on the wall with Sjax, the hold out,the poor preseason play by the Rams' offense, the bad O-line, new coaching staff, etc..warning signs were everywhere..
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Kiddnets
Footballguy
I would love to have either Holt or TJ as my #2 WR - just not asd a #1 where they mostly were drafted. I have TJ as a #2 in one league and pretty happy about it even after week 1
packersfan
Footballguy
Good offensive coordinators make use of their top talent. On the Rams' the top talent is Jackson and Holt. Any system which ignores one of the only two top players on the offensive side of the ball has serious issues. I didn't expect Holt to be a world beater in this offense. I expected him to be a good WR2 which is where I drafted him. Given how the Rams of this season are comparable to the Rams of last year in my opinion and Holt still caught 93 passes, I think he stands a very good chance of matching those numbers if he's used properly. That's on Saunders and Linehan.As far as Housh, this is an offense that must throw the ball. They aren't going to run it very well. And Houshmandzadeh is their No. 1 WR so he will see plenty of targets as the season goes along in my opinion. And with regard to his last eight games last season, he caught 50 passes in those games. In a PPR league, that gives him strong value. What fell off the board in the second half of last season for Housh were his TDs which are the hardest variable to project. I'm not the least bit concerned about him even if his Week 1 performance was awful.
Sorry for the TJ hijack.
Back on topic - this is all on the Rams' coaching staff. They have little talent but the talent they do have needs to be utilized properly. I'm not expecting much from Jackson or Holt this week against the Giants but the schedule does get much better for them soon so I think we'll see better production from Holt (I'm not as high on Jackson) as the season goes along.
Here is a post that Chase Stuart made sometime last week (I think) that discusses how he would weigh pre-season projections with regular season actuals in terms of projecting players going forward.
Link
I think this pertains highly to guys like Holt and Jackson statistically and when would be appropriate to sell or buy on them.
I would say that answer is not after week 1, as I believe that pre-season projections are still far too important to just throw away after a single week. It is also the same reason I do not plan on Michael Turner getting the yards and scores that he got in week 1 every week.
Link
I think this pertains highly to guys like Holt and Jackson statistically and when would be appropriate to sell or buy on them.
I would say that answer is not after week 1, as I believe that pre-season projections are still far too important to just throw away after a single week. It is also the same reason I do not plan on Michael Turner getting the yards and scores that he got in week 1 every week.
aldelgreco
Footballguy
I picked up matt cassel right after brady went down and traded cassel and marvin for holt.
couldn't be happier. i used the fears that have been discussed here against the Holt owner.
one thing is for sure- this will be his only one-catch game of the season. it is torry holt, c'mon.
couldn't be happier. i used the fears that have been discussed here against the Holt owner.
one thing is for sure- this will be his only one-catch game of the season. it is torry holt, c'mon.
JAA
Footballguy
awesome insight
packersfan
Footballguy
bocksheesh
Footballguy
It's also worth remembering and acknowledging that Tory Holt was locked down in Week 1 by Asante Samuel - who has shut down more than his fair share of WRs.
It is not the only explanation for Holt's bad performance, but a big one.
It is not the only explanation for Holt's bad performance, but a big one.
TheFanatic
Footballguy
There has been a lot of talk lately on talk radio about Faulk. When Linehan came on board the Rams basically paid Faulk to go be a commentator for the NFL network and then he would think about coming back the following season. At the time Miklatz wrote that Faulk was very leery of Linehan and thought it wouldn't be worth all the pain and aggravation to try to play if Linehan wasn't up to the task. Bernie was vilified for the comment.
On the air yesterday Faulk was interviewed. He basically said, Pace, Bulger, Holt and Jackson are all pro bowlers. How are these guys all of the sudden not able to play? He essentially insinuated that Linehan didn't prepare these guys for the game. Threw it all on Linehan.
He also said that he has the utmost respect for Haslett. And then said that no disrespect to Haslett but he thinks that at his age with a bum knee he could go off for "150 and a Touch and 100 receiving," against the Rams D.
He went on to say that he criticized the Rams for paying Jackson but that was not a shot at Jackson. He said, "if you can't block at the line, get pressure on the QB or stop the run, then that expensive RB is not going to be of any use in the second half of most games and thus a waste of money because you can't use SJax if the team is always playing from deep holes."
So, today all the talk is about, not if Linehan gets the ax but when and if the Rams go with another coordinator with no HC experience or make a run at Cowher, Schotty, Reeves, etc...
On the air yesterday Faulk was interviewed. He basically said, Pace, Bulger, Holt and Jackson are all pro bowlers. How are these guys all of the sudden not able to play? He essentially insinuated that Linehan didn't prepare these guys for the game. Threw it all on Linehan.
He also said that he has the utmost respect for Haslett. And then said that no disrespect to Haslett but he thinks that at his age with a bum knee he could go off for "150 and a Touch and 100 receiving," against the Rams D.
He went on to say that he criticized the Rams for paying Jackson but that was not a shot at Jackson. He said, "if you can't block at the line, get pressure on the QB or stop the run, then that expensive RB is not going to be of any use in the second half of most games and thus a waste of money because you can't use SJax if the team is always playing from deep holes."
So, today all the talk is about, not if Linehan gets the ax but when and if the Rams go with another coordinator with no HC experience or make a run at Cowher, Schotty, Reeves, etc...
