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refs miss calls, it happens
Most fumbles look like fumbles in real time as well. Then are reversed.
so, as I said, it was a missed call, it happens
No, the rules are pretty specific in explaining that the hair is fair game and there is no rule that says you can not tckle a player by the hair. They showed the conversation yesterday with the refs/coaches. They were clearly demonstrating a pull of the hair, then a shaking of the head in a "no" fashion, followed by a gesture of placing fingers inside the pads with a "yes" nod. Looked pretty clear that the refs were telling the coaches that they thought it was a horse collar. I didn't watch the play any more than what was shown on the game but it was just one of those things. I always want the refs to get the calls right but at some point you have to accept a margin of human error or risk slowing the game down to a crawl. I think every Chiefs game I have seen this year has had at least one period of about 8 or 9 minutes where they are analyzing some call on the field to the nth degree. Its gotten a bit out of hand.
And?
If it was a real horse collar, his head would not have jerked back that violently.
I was basing that on the conversation with Mike Pereira (sp?)In a quick google, there was a Ricky Williams rule saying any hair outside the helmet is considered part of the uniform, and thus fair game, but that rule was prior to the horsecollar rule, so I'm not sure if it's still in effect, or if the horsecollar rule has more wording to it.I'm trying to find more info.
When Barber got up after the play and say the flag he looked at the ref, nodding, and made the 'facemask' sign with his hand. He clearly thought that's what they were calling.
Yeah, definitely looks like I was wrong and misunderstood Pereira. Tackling by hair ok, but once the whistle blows, pulling hair is a penalty.
They voted on a rule requiring all players keep all hair inside their helmet in 2008, but it wasn't passed.I hate this new trend in the NFL of growing your hair long. It looks terrible and causes controversy to boot. Honestly there should be a uniform violation for it. If you cant bunch it up and fit it in your helmet, cut that #### off.
What Im saying is that it is fair game because they consider the hair a part of the jersey.As such, I could see them extending/clarifying the horse collar rule to include if you yank the hair back and down in the horse collar motion (as it has the same effect and danger that the horse collar tackle does).
Sounds like the correct move then is to have all skill position players grow their hair down to ### level. Any grab of the jersey from behind nets a penalty.
Great shot to capture there.So...no effect whether its a horse collar or a facemask.
Not necessarily. I'd have to see video and see how much he pulled the helmet to decide. A few years back they changed facemask to have a 5 and 15 yard variety to separate incidental and flagrant penalties. Then a couple of years ago, they made the 5 yard, incidental facemask legal.
And a mistake was corrected.
No facemask is legal they took away the five yard to make all facemasks a 15 yard penalty. Thats what I understood out of the rule change.
Looked in the rulebook, it's not very helpful though. It just states:"No player shall twist, turn, or pull the facemask of an opponent in any direction."
This is correct.
Google all you want, that's not the rule anymore. Grab the facemask, get 15 yards.
You are partly correct. Yes, they are all 15 yarders. However, you may incidentally grab a facemask without penalty, but you may not twist, turn, or pull. The 2010 Rules book specifically states that no penalty should be called for someone who "incidentally grasps" a facemask.
Can't believe it took this many replies before someone mentioned this. I'm a Lions fan, and the horse collar was BS, but it shouldn't matter as he had a big face maskpenalty that they missed. Either way, it would be the same amount of yards in a penalty.
Not that it matters in the outcome, but he released the facemask instantly if you watch the replays. As there was no pulling, twisting etc... it wouldn't have been a facemask.
Exactly..no challenge or no review. Just pick up the flag.
I was at that game and in real time to me it looked like he pulled Barbers hair. Did not see it as a big deal since he also grabbed his face mask so Suh was guilty of something.
Definitely. Definitely.
