Sunday Ticket subscribers vs NFL (2 Viewers)

[Bri]

I swear there was a thread but I've searched here and used Google and still can't find it.

Judge overseeing NFL 'Sunday Ticket' trial voices frustrations over the case

The federal judge presiding over the class-action lawsuit filed by “Sunday Ticket” subscribers against the NFL voiced frustrations with the way the plaintiffs’ attorneys have handled their side of the case.

apnews.com

The judge does not at all like how the case was presented. I like the tangents for my curiosity. Simple direct answers under threat of perjury or not, it's interesting.

Jerry Jones only sued the NFL because they sued him. That is not what we discussed or he did on the radio back then. The Cowboys are a brand and market themselves well and...oof.

CBS never liked Sunday Ticket.

It's a decent read to make you pause n rethink.

Is anyone here one of the 2.4 million in the class action?

 

[Gally]

It said in the article that

"There is additional language that prohibits the selling of individual games on a pay-per-view basis."

So what about the individual games on Peacock? That seems to be against this clause

 

[brewer]

It said in the article that

"There is additional language that prohibits the selling of individual games on a pay-per-view basis."

So what about the individual games on Peacock? That seems to be against this clause

They aren't sold as pay per view, you have to subscribe to Peacock to get them though. No different than the NFL Network games or Amazon Prime games or ESPN+ games, or, the list goes on and on.

I hate it too, but the Peacock games do not violate that language.

 

[Gally]

They aren't sold as pay per view, you have to subscribe to Peacock to get them though. No different than the NFL Network games or Amazon Prime games or ESPN+ games, or, the list goes on and on.

I hate it to, but the Peacock games do not violate that language.

Being that it is a one off, it sure seems like a pay per view. But I get the legalities of why it would not be considered so.


I am still confused as to why this is so complicated. If you sell a package that appears to include all the games why not have it include all the games (I know the real answer ---- money)? I mean you can have the broadcast still be the CBS/ESPN/Prime/Peacock/etc feed. So you still get all the ad revenue. Same goes with blacked out games where you have to watch on the local sports network (more applicable to baseball). Why not show the local broadcast with all the local advertising. You are still getting the viewership.

Logically it seems like this should be easy.

 

[Bri]

NFL Sunday Ticket Trial Going Well for League

The NFL contends its broadcasting arrangements comply with antitrust law. Thus far, it seems the league's argument in court has proven persuasive.

www.sportico.com

 

[Bri]

Could NFL Sunday Ticket lawsuit change the way America can watch — and pay for — football?

A class action lawsuit threatens the way the NFL packages its viewing options.

sports.yahoo.com

"AppleTV, for example, proposed making the Sunday Ticket part of its offerings at no additional charge. And according to CourthouseNews.com, an email presented into evidence showed ESPN wanted to charge just $70 for the entire season and offer the option of buying the games of just one team."

 

[Bri]

How Fox and NFL discussed Sunday Ticket

Fox saw Sunday Ticket as ‘existential threat’ to its NFL broadcasts, jury hears

An internal document produced in the NFL's antitrust trial shows Fox asked the NFL to set a base price for DirecTV's Sunday Ticket as part of the network's negotiations for a new contract for the Sunday afternoon live broadcasts.

www.courthousenews.com

 

[Bri]

An economist explains the collusion theory

NFL didn’t want Sunday Ticket on cable TV to limit distribution, economist testifies

An expert witness said that Sunday Ticket subscribers wouldn't pay anything extra for the out-of-market games if it wasn't for the league's collusion with the networks to limit distribution of the bundle and keep prices high.

www.courthousenews.com

 

[Long Ball Larry]

I’m all for making this cheaper and more available, but I’m not really clear why the nfl doesn’t have a right to determine however they want their product to be distributed

 

[Bri]

I’m all for making this cheaper and more available, but I’m not really clear why the nfl doesn’t have a right to determine however they want their product to be distributed

It's more along the lines of- I paid for this thru this company why do I have to pay again for it through another company.

Tangents are plentiful and fascinating but the root of this is they paid for all games on Sunday ticket

 

[Snotbubbles]

I’m all for making this cheaper and more available, but I’m not really clear why the nfl doesn’t have a right to determine however they want their product to be distributed

It's more along the lines of- I paid for this thru this company why do I have to pay again for it through another company.

Tangents are plentiful and fascinating but the root of this is they paid for all games on Sunday ticket

Summary of the arguments from the complaint in the case:

The Supreme Court has observed that each NFL team is a "substantial, independently owned, and independently managed business," competing with its rivals "not only on the playing field, but to attract fans, for gate receipts and for contracts with managerial and playing personnel," as well as "in the market for intellectual property." American Needle Inc. v. NFL, 560 U.S. 183, 196-97 (2009). In 1961, a court ruling prevented the joint selling of broadcast rights by the NFL. In response to that ruling the NFL lobbied and received an antitrust exemption to jointly sell or transfer sponsored telecast rights for "the free telecasting of professional sports contests," with no exemption for pay, cable or satellite television distribution.

Instead of each team individually offering to distribute their games nationally through pay, cable or satellite television distribution, they have joined together to create a distribution monopoly. The allegations are: 1.) the total elimination of competition allows the NFL, its Teams, and DirecTV to charge supracompetitive monopoly prices, rather than the prices that would exist if the 32 teams were competing for interest and distribution in a free market; and 2.) Class members must pay for access to all 32 teams’ out-of-market games, even if they are only interested in viewing one or two teams’ games.

The exclusive deal the NFL had with DirectTV, FOX, ESPN, CBS and NBC, results in a black-out or unavailability of out-of-market games, except through NFL/DirectTV Sunday Ticket. This injures competition from other providers like Dish Network, Comcast, and Spectrum by limiting game options and package mixes and imposing supracompetitive prices on consumers. This exclusive distribution arrangement is unique among American sports. Of the four major professional sports in this country—baseball, basketball, hockey, and football—the only one with an exclusive out-of-market broadcasting arrangement is the NFL/DirecTV Sunday Ticket. Major League Baseball (“MLB”), the National Basketball Association (“NBA”), and the National Hockey League (“NHL”) all distribute live out-of-market games through multiple cable providers, including, for example, DirecTV, the Dish Network, and InDemand (which originated as a consortium of Comcast, Cox Communications and Time Warner Cable). As a result, DirecTV does not charge nearly as much for access to MLB Extra Innings, NBA League Pass, and NHL Center Ice, which provide access to more games per week over a longer season than the NFL.

DirecTV has willfully joined, encouraged, and entrenched the Teams’ conspiracy. It contracted with the NFL to make Sunday Ticket exclusive to DirecTV, so that no other cable or satellite distributor could sell it. In doing so, it required that the NFL and its Teams preserve their anticompetitive agreement not to compete with one another. DirecTV’s agreement to carry Sunday Ticket and not to deal individually with NFL teams is premised upon the continued existence of the anticompetitive agreement not to create and distribute individual team telecasts. As explained below, the Teams, in affirming the NFL’s successive agreements with DirecTV, have mandated that nothing in the NFL’s contracts with the Networks shall in any way impede the exclusive deal between the DirecTV and the NFL.

ETA: Basically, if the NFL had created Sunday Ticket and allowed every cable provider to distribute Sunday Ticket as part of one of those networks packages (like a League Pass), the NFL would not be getting sued. Instead, they only allowed one provider to distribute the package. The Prime games, games on Peacock are all able to be distributed by other cable networks. DirectTV you needed to get their satellite, their equipment, Sunday Ticket wasn't available any other way.

 

[houston]

OP isn’t wrong. There sure was a post on this topic that has seemed to disappear. What in the Offdee happened there?

Questions:
Is any former ST subscriber part of the class action group? Or did one have to someone register?

What could members of the group gain in a settlement or an award?

Could this have any impact on how ST is currently offered thru YouTube?

 

[Bri]

"The jury will then deliberate until there’s a verdict or an impasse. If the NFL loses, the presiding judge could still enter judgment notwithstanding the verdict for the defense. Regardless of who wins or loses, an appeal to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit remains possible.

The league could have a much stronger case on the law than on the facts. As to the facts, there’s plenty of evidence to support a jury verdict on the question of whether the league required Sunday Ticket to be priced high enough to ensure that plenty of consumers would instead watch the games available on local CBS and/or Fox affiliates. Thus, even if the plaintiffs fail to parlay those facts into a win or if the broadcast antitrust exemption or some other legal principle gives the league a silver bullet, it seems that the league could have made the product available to customers at a much lower price — but that it didn’t want to."
https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profo...#:~:text=The jury will then,it didn’t want to.

 

[Bri]

On the radio, some legal expert was talking of the Dartmouth NIL case (Fascinating, different topic, FFA) and he said he expects that one and "the Sunday ticket case" to go before the Supreme Court. The more he talked he made it sound like it was a given.

Real world versus what ya learn in school Q-
Sooo does that mean whatever is decided here or on appeal won't mean squat til the Supreme Court hears it and issues "the final say" on the matter?

And that would be years from now, right?

 

[Bri]

"Dallas Cowboys owner Jerry Jones testified last week that if he was able to sell his out-of-market rights, he would not be in favor of a salary cap."

NFL 'Sunday Ticket' jury to begin deliberations

The jury in the class-action lawsuit filed by "Sunday Ticket" subscribers against the NFL is expected to begin deliberations on Wednesday after both sides wrapped up their cases on Monday.

www.espn.com

"The lawsuit was originally filed in 2015 by the Mucky Duck sports bar in San Francisco, but was dismissed in 2017. Two years later, the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals, which has jurisdiction over California and eight other states, reinstated the case. Gutierrez ruled last year the case could proceed as a class action."

 

[Snotbubbles]

OP isn’t wrong. There sure was a post on this topic that has seemed to disappear. What in the Offdee happened there?

Questions:
Is any former ST subscriber part of the class action group? Or did one have to someone register?

What could members of the group gain in a settlement or an award?

Could this have any impact on how ST is currently offered thru YouTube?

FAQ | In RE: National Football League's "Sunday Ticket" Antitrust Litigation

FAQ page for the NFL Sunday Ticket Antitrust Litigation website. Details regarding key dates, important information, and FAQs.

www.nflsundayticketlawsuit.com

You won't know what you get until there is a verdict or a settlement.

 

[Bri]

@meghanncuniff
Jury in the Sunday Ticket antitrust trial orders NFL to pay $96 million in damages to commercial class and $4 BILLION in damages to the residential class.

 

[Bri]

NFL Ordered to Pay $4.7 Billion in Sunday Ticket Trial Verdict

The NFL loses the Sunday Ticket Trial, but will appeal.

www.sportico.com

"In addition to appealing, the NFL will need to consider new broadcasting arrangements that feature teams competing in the sale of broadcasts. The league has maintained that consumers will be worse off without the Sunday Ticket but has economic incentives to ensure the NFL continues its broadcasting dominance—even if that means exploring new ways of teams televising games to out-of-town fans."

 

[McBokonon]

NFL Ordered to Pay $4.7 Billion in Sunday Ticket Trial Verdict

The NFL loses the Sunday Ticket Trial, but will appeal.

www.sportico.com

"In addition to appealing, the NFL will need to consider new broadcasting arrangements that feature teams competing in the sale of broadcasts. The league has maintained that consumers will be worse off without the Sunday Ticket but has economic incentives to ensure the NFL continues its broadcasting dominance—even if that means exploring new ways of teams televising games to out-of-town fans."

Another article just to add to this.

Aside from the NFL being on the hook for more than $14B monetarily, it now seems more likely that a new model would allow fans to subscribe to single-team streaming packages rather than the entire Sunday Ticket -- an approach that would look more like most other major sports leagues, particularly with the NFL package now based at streaming-centric YouTube.

 

[Snotbubbles]

I'll be joining this class since I had Sunday Ticket for a few years in the early 2000s.

 

[Bri]

Actual Sunday Ticket verdict is $4.696 billion, times three

League faces total liability of $14.088 billion

www.nbcsports.com

"There was some initial confusion as to the specific amount of the verdict entered against the NFL in the nationwide Sunday Ticket class action. We now have clarity.

The total verdict, as confirmed by the NFL, is $4.696 billion.

Under antitrust law, that gets tripled to $14.088 billion.

The judge could still throw it out. He could potentially reduce it. Regardless, for now, it’s $14.088 billion. That’s $440.25 million per team.

To put that in perspective, this year’s salary cap is $255.4 million per team."

 

[need2know]

how do you join? i paid for this a few times with directv

 

[pinequick]

how do you join? i paid for this a few times with directv

My guess is that (if this ever gets to that point) you should automatically be entered into the class. Sometimes I'll get a generic mailer about some class action that "I'm a part of" and I need to do X, Y, & Z to claim my (miniscule) share.

Never mind... You need to request it (if it gets to that point)--per Florio on PFT

 

[Gally]

I'll be joining this class since I had Sunday Ticket for a few years in the early 2000s.

I would have figured you had to already be in the class and can't just join after the fact. But I have no idea. This thread was the first I ever heard of it but I had the ST pretty much the entire time it was in existence. If I can get into the class now that would be great.

 

[NutterButter]

Did you actually have to be paying directtv for their service to qualify or does pirating count? Asking for a friend.

 

[Joe Schmo]

Did you actually have to be paying directtv for their service to qualify or does pirating count? Asking for a friend.

Actually, those that pirated have to share with the owners in the payment of damages...

 

[Bri]

@AndrewBrandt
·
2h
Re Sunday Ticket ruling:
-NFL will appeal to trial judge, who was favorable to them despite jury verdict. He could overrule jury or reduce award;
-If no luck, appeal to 9th Circuit;
-If no luck, appeal to Supreme Court.
Bottom line: no plaintiffs are getting any $$ anytime soon.

 

[Bri]

I'll be joining this class since I had Sunday Ticket for a few years in the early 2000s.

I would have figured you had to already be in the class and can't just join after the fact. But I have no idea. This thread was the first I ever heard of it but I had the ST pretty much the entire time it was in existence. If I can get into the class now that would be great.

I'm not... But as I understand you can join til damages have been awarded and appeal process complete.
It doesn't change the outcome or anything other than you get .03 percent or somesuch fraction

 

[need2know]

how do you join? i paid for this a few times with directv

My guess is that (if this ever gets to that point) you should automatically be entered into the class. Sometimes I'll get a generic mailer about some class action that "I'm a part of" and I need to do X, Y, & Z to claim my (miniscule) share.

Never mind... You need to request it (if it gets to that point)--per Florio on PFT

i dont see anything in that doc about where to actually request anything

 

[need2know]

I'll be joining this class since I had Sunday Ticket for a few years in the early 2000s.

looks like the suit dates start around 2011. dont know why its not earlier. directv had sunday ticket well before 2011

 

[OrganizedChaos]

how do you join? i paid for this a few times with directv

My guess is that (if this ever gets to that point) you should automatically be entered into the class. Sometimes I'll get a generic mailer about some class action that "I'm a part of" and I need to do X, Y, & Z to claim my (miniscule) share.

Never mind... You need to request it (if it gets to that point)--per Florio on PFT

i dont see anything in that doc about where to actually request anything

The way I read it you don’t have to do anything unless you wanted to opt out of it.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

$489 to re-up for 2024, on and I will split that cost with Junior and watch the games on Youtube

-I did cut the cable way back, not sure if I will still get Redzone but it was in the Quad boxes last season on YT so I assume it stays the same

 

[pinequick]

how do you join? i paid for this a few times with directv

My guess is that (if this ever gets to that point) you should automatically be entered into the class. Sometimes I'll get a generic mailer about some class action that "I'm a part of" and I need to do X, Y, & Z to claim my (miniscule) share.

Never mind... You need to request it (if it gets to that point)--per Florio on PFT

i dont see anything in that doc about where to actually request anything

Quoting Florio on PFT, these two paragraphs are sort of confusing to me, I guess...

"As explained in the website devoted to the litigation, the class automatically covers anyone who purchased Sunday Ticket from June 17, 2011 through February 7, 2023. If you didn’t opt out of the class before October 8, 2023, you are in it.

The class action covers 12 years of Sunday Ticket. Based on the class-action website, you must affirmatively request a share at the appropriate time."

 

[Gally]

Quoting Florio on PFT, these two paragraphs are sort of confusing to me, I guess...

"As explained in the website devoted to the litigation, the class automatically covers anyone who purchased Sunday Ticket from June 17, 2011 through February 7, 2023. If you didn’t opt out of the class before October 8, 2023, you are in it.

The class action covers 12 years of Sunday Ticket. Based on the class-action website, you must affirmatively request a share at the appropriate time."

Definitely contradictory

 

[Gally]

$489 to re-up for 2024,

It's only $349. You might be lumping in the YTTV monthly service too?

 

[OrganizedChaos]

$489 to re-up for 2024,

It's only $349. You might be lumping in the YTTV monthly service too?

Yea only $349 if you have YTTV monthly and $449 as a standalone. We had the standalone last year but I cancelled the auto renewal hoping late in the game I will get some type of discount offered (50 or 100) to sign back up. They are only offering discounts to new subscribers which sucks when it is so expensive and we've been on Sunday Ticket for almost 30 years.

 

[houston]

Quoting Florio on PFT, these two paragraphs are sort of confusing to me, I guess...

"As explained in the website devoted to the litigation, the class automatically covers anyone who purchased Sunday Ticket from June 17, 2011 through February 7, 2023. If you didn’t opt out of the class before October 8, 2023, you are in it.

The class action covers 12 years of Sunday Ticket. Based on the class-action website, you must affirmatively request a share at the appropriate time."

Definitely contradictory

Agreed that lots of unknowns here, but simply looks like you’re in unless you’ve opted out. And if you’re in, there might be an additional step needed to request your slice.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

$489 to re-up for 2024,

It's only $349. You might be lumping in the YTTV monthly service too?

Wow, I have to ask about that/ We also split it, my son and I, we both have a login, live 250 miles apart so I don't know if you get the same deal at $349
Good information, much appreciated

 

[need2know]

Makes you wonder what we would all get. I had it every year over that time period. Be cool just to get that amount back. Even half would be a decent number

 

[Wingnut]

I'll be joining this class since I had Sunday Ticket for a few years in the early 2000s.

From the link you posted:

• Residential Damages Class: All DIRECTV residential subscribers that purchased the NFL Sunday Ticket at any time between June 17, 2011 and February 7, 2023.

So just those 11+ years.

 

[GregR]

Hrm, no clue when I stopped getting it. Not sure if I'm in that time range or not.

 

[Snotbubbles]

I'll be joining this class since I had Sunday Ticket for a few years in the early 2000s.

From the link you posted:

• Residential Damages Class: All DIRECTV residential subscribers that purchased the NFL Sunday Ticket at any time between June 17, 2011 and February 7, 2023.

So just those 11+ years.

Grrr!

 

[Gally]

Makes you wonder what we would all get. I had it every year over that time period. Be cool just to get that amount back. Even half would be a decent number

Me too. I think I may have had it every year they had it. It was the reason I got DirecTV in the first place and had them all the way until the lost the package to YTTV. Any refund would be great.

I haven't been contacted or signed up or opted out of anything with respect to this. It doesn't seem like I need to do anything to get the payout. But I could be missing something.

 

[Pigskin Fanatic]

$489 to re-up for 2024,

It's only $349. You might be lumping in the YTTV monthly service too?

Wow, I have to ask about that/ We also split it, my son and I, we both have a login, live 250 miles apart so I don't know if you get the same deal at $349
Good information, much appreciated

huh, my renewal notice also said 489. need to look at this before it auto-renews. thanks gents.

 

[Gally]

$489 to re-up for 2024,

It's only $349. You might be lumping in the YTTV monthly service too?

Wow, I have to ask about that/ We also split it, my son and I, we both have a login, live 250 miles apart so I don't know if you get the same deal at $349
Good information, much appreciated

huh, my renewal notice also said 489. need to look at this before it auto-renews. thanks gents.

There may be a disconnect. I also have YTTV so that price may be for the stand alone ST cost. That I am not sure of.

 

[Bri]

Somehow this is probably a response to the lawsuit. Owners upset, let's make some money to cover this? Idk but it feels like a business response

x.com

x.com

 

[Faust]

Roger Goodell on Sunday Ticket verdict: NFL feels 'very strongly about our position'

 

[belljr]

Sorry I couldn't find the generic Sunday Ticket thread.

So got an offer that my kid can get Sunday ticket for $109 .

Eligible students can purchase NFL Sunday Ticket for the 2024–25 NFL season on YouTube Primetime Channels for $109 and bundle it with NFL RedZone for $10 more for a limited time. This special offer expires after July 30, 2024. Student Plans for NFL Sunday Ticket can only be purchased as a YouTube Primetime Channel, but once purchased you can watch on either YouTube or YouTube TV.

Does this mean she needs to have YTTV already? What is a YT Primetime Channel?

If she get verified can I log in from my house with her credentials?

 

[khalpin]

I saw that as well. I don't see any reason you couldn't log in with her credentials and watch from home. I got the Sunday Ticket last year and "shared it" with my son away at school and another friend. Once in a while, we would get errors saying there were too many people watching even though it was just three of us and the ST package through YT allows up to 3 viewers, but after enough attempts we would be able to get it working for all 3 of us. All 3 of us living in different states. With the discounted Student package, there is no sharing. Only 1 person can stream at a time. I don't see how it would be possible for them to know it's you logged in instead of your daughter, with maybe the exception that she's logged into YT on another device streaming other content. She doesn't need to have YTTV as you can stream Primetime channels directly from YT and don't need the YTTV app. A Primetime channel is typically just buying a streaming service through YT, so you don't need to install the Paramount+ app(for example), you just stream it directly through YT or YTTV.

Apart from the Student discount, has anyone had any success getting the price lowered at all through Youtube? With DTV, for 20 years I would just call and complain about the high cost and they would either give me the ST for free or knock $20/month off my bill for a year so that it was close to free.

 

[Bri]

Sunday Ticket trial, Day Four: Fox executive Larry Jones testimony

I've made it through 683 pages of the Sunday Ticket trial transcript.

www.nbcsports.com