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grind

Footballguy
Per John Clayton..."To make matters worse, Gibbs and the coaches lost their communication system during the game. They couldn't work the headsets.

"There were issues," Gibbs said. "It's a problem across the league. I don't want to use that as an excuse for what happened to us today. We'll just continue to let the league know what happened to us today, and we'll just have to see how they deal with it."

Hard to beleive this game was at Foxboro. I'm completely shocked.

 
Per John Clayton..."To make matters worse, Gibbs and the coaches lost their communication system during the game. They couldn't work the headsets."There were issues," Gibbs said. "It's a problem across the league. I don't want to use that as an excuse for what happened to us today. We'll just continue to let the league know what happened to us today, and we'll just have to see how they deal with it."Hard to beleive this game was at Foxboro. I'm completely shocked.
You realize when that happens the other team (Patriots) are required to turn theirs off. Nice try though. Stop with the Patriots bashing already, it's freaking old.
 
Per John Clayton..."To make matters worse, Gibbs and the coaches lost their communication system during the game. They couldn't work the headsets."There were issues," Gibbs said. "It's a problem across the league. I don't want to use that as an excuse for what happened to us today. We'll just continue to let the league know what happened to us today, and we'll just have to see how they deal with it."Hard to beleive this game was at Foxboro. I'm completely shocked.
It says in the quote that Gibbs said it's a problem that happens across the league.
 
Per John Clayton..."To make matters worse, Gibbs and the coaches lost their communication system during the game. They couldn't work the headsets."There were issues," Gibbs said. "It's a problem across the league. I don't want to use that as an excuse for what happened to us today. We'll just continue to let the league know what happened to us today, and we'll just have to see how they deal with it."Hard to beleive this game was at Foxboro. I'm completely shocked.
Don't forget, the OC to QB communications at went out at the end of the eagles bears game last week. The bears had the ball on their 3 yard line and had to score a TD to win the game. Don't make excuses and accept the facts, this Patriots Team, if it stays healthy, will be the greatest team to play the game.
 
Watched the game and the announcers said 'The Pats were supposed to turn off theirs'. Didn't see where they ever confirmed that occurred.

Look this was one of the gripes that alot of teams voiced about the Pats when they were caught cheating and until they fix it will continue being an issue. Why it only occurs to the opponents communications at Foxboro lends itself to the tongue wagging. No way Washington wins that game even if THEY have video of Pats playcalling but it still smells fishy.

This is but a consequence of the Pats decision to cheat in the first place; deal with it.

 
^^Ummm, did you actually READ the quote from Gibbs? "It's a problem across the league. I don't want to use that as an excuse for what happened to us today..."

 
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Per John Clayton..."To make matters worse, Gibbs and the coaches lost their communication system during the game. They couldn't work the headsets."There were issues," Gibbs said. "It's a problem across the league. I don't want to use that as an excuse for what happened to us today. We'll just continue to let the league know what happened to us today, and we'll just have to see how they deal with it."Hard to beleive this game was at Foxboro. I'm completely shocked.
You realize when that happens the other team (Patriots) are required to turn theirs off. Nice try though. Stop with the Patriots bashing already, it's freaking old.
Not that it affected the outcome, but I believe that the Redskins OC sits up in the booth and the Pats OC is on the sidelines. Therefore if the communications between the booth and sidelines go down, the Pats get an advantage in terms of communication regardless if the all the headsets are off or not.Again, it appeared that the Pats didn't need to cheat to win against the hapless Skins, but Bellichek has been shown to cheat even against teams that are dramatically over-matched. :bag:
 
Per John Clayton..."To make matters worse, Gibbs and the coaches lost their communication system during the game. They couldn't work the headsets."There were issues," Gibbs said. "It's a problem across the league. I don't want to use that as an excuse for what happened to us today. We'll just continue to let the league know what happened to us today, and we'll just have to see how they deal with it."Hard to beleive this game was at Foxboro. I'm completely shocked.
It says in the quote that Gibbs said it's a problem that happens across the league.
No, no, no that is not going to satisfy the hatred of the Patriots by the nut cases. These loopie people are not going to stop waiving pitch forks until the NFL disbands the whole franchise. Its comical and sad at the same time. I especially like "some" of the Pittsburg and San Diego fans. My hope is the Pats play both in the playoffs and scrub them up. I want to badly see LT with tears of shame streaking down his face as he states that SD should have won the game. Worst of all is defending the Pats who I just dont like, but hey when your that good you have earned my respect. Yes I respect LT too, but man come on. I do think its slightly premature to be crowning this years Pats as the greatest team ever.
 
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Don't make excuses and accept the facts, this Patriots Team, if it stays healthy, will be the greatest team to play the game.
Let's wait one week before heading down that path. Recent history suggests the Pats might not have a cakewalk in Indy next weekend.
 
Filthy Fernandez said:
Watched the game and the announcers said 'The Pats were supposed to turn off theirs'. Didn't see where they ever confirmed that occurred.

Look this was one of the gripes that alot of teams voiced about the Pats when they were caught cheating and until they fix it will continue being an issue. Why it only occurs to the opponents communications at Foxboro lends itself to the tongue wagging. No way Washington wins that game even if THEY have video of Pats playcalling but it still smells fishy.

This is but a consequence of the Pats decision to cheat in the first place; deal with it.
:rolleyes: Until they show that they've changed there act (and it'll take awhile), people are going to keep raking them over the coals.
 
While losing head set communication would hurt both teams, it would hurt the team that did not know it was going to happen far worse. So if NE somehow knew there would be a problem, they could easily plan for it. Not saying this is what happened, but it's just something to keep in mind before saying it hurts both teams.

 
biggyd said:
grind said:
Per John Clayton..."To make matters worse, Gibbs and the coaches lost their communication system during the game. They couldn't work the headsets."There were issues," Gibbs said. "It's a problem across the league. I don't want to use that as an excuse for what happened to us today. We'll just continue to let the league know what happened to us today, and we'll just have to see how they deal with it."Hard to beleive this game was at Foxboro. I'm completely shocked.
Don't forget, the OC to QB communications at went out at the end of the eagles bears game last week. The bears had the ball on their 3 yard line and had to score a TD to win the game. Don't make excuses and accept the facts, this Patriots Team, if it stays healthy, will be the greatest team to play the game.
Just curious if Indy defeats NE, does that mean Indy is the greatest team to play the game???
 
While losing head set communication would hurt both teams, it would hurt the team that did not know it was going to happen far worse. So if NE somehow knew there would be a problem, they could easily plan for it. Not saying this is what happened, but it's just something to keep in mind before saying it hurts both teams.
Parcells and Steve Young talked about this exact same thing. Bill said everytime they played in SF, the coms would go out. But it didnt matter to the 49ers because they had already scripted their first 15-20 plays. Young didnt seem to dispute that fact too much.
 
While losing head set communication would hurt both teams, it would hurt the team that did not know it was going to happen far worse. So if NE somehow knew there would be a problem, they could easily plan for it. Not saying this is what happened, but it's just something to keep in mind before saying it hurts both teams.
Parcells and Steve Young talked about this exact same thing. Bill said everytime they played in SF, the coms would go out. But it didnt matter to the 49ers because they had already scripted their first 15-20 plays. Young didnt seem to dispute that fact too much.
Pretty funny exchange.Young then called out Parcells for opening the doors to the tunnel system under the stadium to cause winds above the field to swirl when the 49ers were driving or kicking a FG. Parcells quipped back that he has no control over the operations of the stadium and how they might coincidentally coincide with a 49ers offensive drive.
 
Filthy Fernandez said:
Watched the game and the announcers said 'The Pats were supposed to turn off theirs'. Didn't see where they ever confirmed that occurred.

Look this was one of the gripes that alot of teams voiced about the Pats when they were caught cheating and until they fix it will continue being an issue. Why it only occurs to the opponents communications at Foxboro lends itself to the tongue wagging. No way Washington wins that game even if THEY have video of Pats playcalling but it still smells fishy.

This is but a consequence of the Pats decision to cheat in the first place; deal with it.
:blush: Until they show that they've changed there act (and it'll take awhile), people are going to keep raking them over the coals.
Wow that raking over the coals seems to be shaking them up. I mean is it really a "consequence" cause people are venting their vial of the Pats in a Fantays Football forum. I am sure during the next team meeting Bill is going to sit down with Brady and discuss the Sharkpool messege board, (BILL) - "Tom you know they seem to not like us over there at FBG, specifically in the shark pool"

(Tom) - "Yeah Dude, you should not have been taping the Jets during the game, I mean its not like Mangini didnt run that for ya when he was over here."

(Bill) - "Hmm, good point Tom"

(Tom) - "Nice job on blocking the comms with Gibbs yesterday"

(Bill) - "Thanks Tom, hows the baby doing"

(Tom) - "Great, great, Im going to Video his first bithday and send it to grandma"

(Bill) - "Let me know if you need any help with that Tom"

(Tom) - "Er, Umm, no, no I dont think that would be a good idea Bill, you know with all the stuff going on"

(Bill) - "Ah yeah, I see your point Tom, sorry for offering".

 
biggyd said:
grind said:
Per John Clayton..."To make matters worse, Gibbs and the coaches lost their communication system during the game. They couldn't work the headsets."There were issues," Gibbs said. "It's a problem across the league. I don't want to use that as an excuse for what happened to us today. We'll just continue to let the league know what happened to us today, and we'll just have to see how they deal with it."Hard to beleive this game was at Foxboro. I'm completely shocked.
Don't forget, the OC to QB communications at went out at the end of the eagles bears game last week. The bears had the ball on their 3 yard line and had to score a TD to win the game. Don't make excuses and accept the facts, this Patriots Team, if it stays healthy, will be the greatest team to play the game.
Just curious if Indy defeats NE, does that mean Indy is the greatest team to play the game???
:lmao: :goodposting: :goodposting:
 
Filthy Fernandez said:
Watched the game and the announcers said 'The Pats were supposed to turn off theirs'. Didn't see where they ever confirmed that occurred.
I'm curious about that too. Many people say it's supposed to happen. Is anyone saying they know that it did happen?If the NFL investigates this, will they keep the evidence?

 
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biggyd said:
grind said:
Per John Clayton..."To make matters worse, Gibbs and the coaches lost their communication system during the game. They couldn't work the headsets.

"There were issues," Gibbs said. "It's a problem across the league. I don't want to use that as an excuse for what happened to us today. We'll just continue to let the league know what happened to us today, and we'll just have to see how they deal with it."

Hard to beleive this game was at Foxboro. I'm completely shocked.
Don't forget, the OC to QB communications at went out at the end of the eagles bears game last week. The bears had the ball on their 3 yard line and had to score a TD to win the game. Don't make excuses and accept the facts, this Patriots Team, if it stays healthy, will be the greatest team to play the game.
Just curious if Indy defeats NE, does that mean Indy is the greatest team to play the game???
:goodposting: :goodposting: :goodposting:
Well, if a loss on the road to the reigning Super Bowl Champions who are argued to be the second best team in the league defaults you from being the greatest team ever......the only conclusion can be that the 1972 Miami Dolphins are the Greatest Team Ever!!!

 
Filthy Fernandez said:
Watched the game and the announcers said 'The Pats were supposed to turn off theirs'. Didn't see where they ever confirmed that occurred.

Look this was one of the gripes that alot of teams voiced about the Pats when they were caught cheating and until they fix it will continue being an issue. Why it only occurs to the opponents communications at Foxboro lends itself to the tongue wagging. No way Washington wins that game even if THEY have video of Pats playcalling but it still smells fishy.

This is but a consequence of the Pats decision to cheat in the first place; deal with it.
:goodposting: Until they show that they've changed there act (and it'll take awhile), people are going to keep raking them over the coals.
Of course, if the Patriots won in a manner that would earn them some respect, that would help also.PROVEN cheaters who DON'T RESPECT the game, nor their opponent. Pats fans - you will win, but you will win in a manner that it will be very hard to be proud of. Enjoy the fruits of your labor.

 
I can see the huddle now....

J Campbell tells his line...."Since I can't hear Gibbs, I guess we should just NOT block Vrabel"

 
Filthy Fernandez said:
Watched the game and the announcers said 'The Pats were supposed to turn off theirs'. Didn't see where they ever confirmed that occurred.
I'm curious about that too. Many people say it's supposed to happen. Is anyone saying they know that it did happen?If the NFL investigates this, will they keep the evidence?
Lazor still had communication with Campbell, so NE did not have to shut down all communication. The Skins lost communication between Saunders and the sideline.
 
I can see the huddle now....J Campbell tells his line...."Since I can't hear Gibbs, I guess we should just NOT block Vrabel"
:suds: Now that right there is FUNNEH!Again, the Skins really had no chance in that game as their offense is suspect. Indy will give the Pats a much closer game but will most likely lose.Back to the topic; I'm not a Pat hater. This is without a doubt one of the best teams I've ever watched play the game but the lingering questions over just how much cheating occurred will haunt the Pats and their legacy for a long time. There will always be those people that will put an asterisks next to their championship but I'm not one of them.
 
biggyd said:
grind said:
Per John Clayton..."To make matters worse, Gibbs and the coaches lost their communication system during the game. They couldn't work the headsets.

"There were issues," Gibbs said. "It's a problem across the league. I don't want to use that as an excuse for what happened to us today. We'll just continue to let the league know what happened to us today, and we'll just have to see how they deal with it."

Hard to beleive this game was at Foxboro. I'm completely shocked.
Don't forget, the OC to QB communications at went out at the end of the eagles bears game last week. The bears had the ball on their 3 yard line and had to score a TD to win the game. Don't make excuses and accept the facts, this Patriots Team, if it stays healthy, will be the greatest team to play the game.
Just curious if Indy defeats NE, does that mean Indy is the greatest team to play the game???
:goodposting: :lmao: :)
Well, if a loss on the road to the reigning Super Bowl Champions who are argued to be the second best team in the league defaults you from being the greatest team ever...
Yes it does.
 
biggyd said:
grind said:
Per John Clayton..."To make matters worse, Gibbs and the coaches lost their communication system during the game. They couldn't work the headsets.

"There were issues," Gibbs said. "It's a problem across the league. I don't want to use that as an excuse for what happened to us today. We'll just continue to let the league know what happened to us today, and we'll just have to see how they deal with it."

Hard to beleive this game was at Foxboro. I'm completely shocked.
Don't forget, the OC to QB communications at went out at the end of the eagles bears game last week. The bears had the ball on their 3 yard line and had to score a TD to win the game. Don't make excuses and accept the facts, this Patriots Team, if it stays healthy, will be the greatest team to play the game.
Just curious if Indy defeats NE, does that mean Indy is the greatest team to play the game???
:blackdot: :goodposting: :goodposting:
Well, if a loss on the road to the reigning Super Bowl Champions who are argued to be the second best team in the league defaults you from being the greatest team ever...
Yes it does.
You don't get "defaulted" out of being the best team ever. Saying a team is the best ever is a relative statement. I think it's possible to argue that a 15-1 team in 2007 was better than the undefeated Miami team.It's a kinda pointless to have this discussion at this point in the season anyway.

 
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biggyd said:
grind said:
Per John Clayton..."To make matters worse, Gibbs and the coaches lost their communication system during the game. They couldn't work the headsets.

"There were issues," Gibbs said. "It's a problem across the league. I don't want to use that as an excuse for what happened to us today. We'll just continue to let the league know what happened to us today, and we'll just have to see how they deal with it."

Hard to beleive this game was at Foxboro. I'm completely shocked.
Don't forget, the OC to QB communications at went out at the end of the eagles bears game last week. The bears had the ball on their 3 yard line and had to score a TD to win the game. Don't make excuses and accept the facts, this Patriots Team, if it stays healthy, will be the greatest team to play the game.
Just curious if Indy defeats NE, does that mean Indy is the greatest team to play the game???
:popcorn: :rolleyes: :popcorn:
Well, if a loss on the road to the reigning Super Bowl Champions who are argued to be the second best team in the league defaults you from being the greatest team ever...
Yes it does.
You don't get "defaulted" out of being the best team ever. Saying a team is the best ever is a relative statement. I think it's possible to argue that a 15-1 team in 2007 was better than the undefeated Miami team.It's a kinda pointless to have this discussion at this point in the season anyway.
Fair enough on my opinion. The main point I wanted to make was communication problems exist in other stadiums at inopportune times like the bears eagles game last week and very few take notice.

The OC to QB communications went out at the end of the eagles bears game last week. The bears had the ball on their 3 yard line and had to score a TD to win the game. They drove the length of the field and scored a TD in less than 3 minutes based on the strength of Brian Griese's play calling.

 
By the way, BB was asked about communications issues during the post-game presser.

He seemed to try to deflect the issue by basically replying that he'd heard there were some issues but there is "a procedure" that the NFL has in place to address that. He didn't say anything about following it.

The reporters didn't seem satisfied with the answer and pressed on - basically asking if the Patriots had turned off their communication, as well, since Washington didn't have theirs.

He answered basically, "No - the officials didn't tell us to."

Not ripping or supporting - just relaying info from the questions he was asked, as it relates to them turning off their communication system when Washington lost theirs.

No - I don't have a link, since I just listened to a small bit of the press conference and I don't know if transcripts are available out on the net somewhere.

 
biggyd said:
grind said:
Per John Clayton..."To make matters worse, Gibbs and the coaches lost their communication system during the game. They couldn't work the headsets.

"There were issues," Gibbs said. "It's a problem across the league. I don't want to use that as an excuse for what happened to us today. We'll just continue to let the league know what happened to us today, and we'll just have to see how they deal with it."

Hard to beleive this game was at Foxboro. I'm completely shocked.
Don't forget, the OC to QB communications at went out at the end of the eagles bears game last week. The bears had the ball on their 3 yard line and had to score a TD to win the game. Don't make excuses and accept the facts, this Patriots Team, if it stays healthy, will be the greatest team to play the game.
Just curious if Indy defeats NE, does that mean Indy is the greatest team to play the game???
:thumbdown: :lmao: :goodposting:
Well, if a loss on the road to the reigning Super Bowl Champions who are argued to be the second best team in the league defaults you from being the greatest team ever...
Yes it does.
You don't get "defaulted" out of being the best team ever. Saying a team is the best ever is a relative statement. I think it's possible to argue that a 15-1 team in 2007 was better than the undefeated Miami team.It's a kinda pointless to have this discussion at this point in the season anyway.
Fair enough on my opinion.

The main point I wanted to make was communication problems exist in other stadiums at inopportune times like the bears eagles game last week and very few take notice.

The OC to QB communications went out at the end of the eagles bears game last week. The bears had the ball on their 3 yard line and had to score a TD to win the game. They drove the length of the field and scored a TD in less than 3 minutes based on the strength of Brian Griese's play calling.
That's because it doesn't happen repeatedly while playing against a team that has a history of cheating. It may be coincidence but when it continues to happen to one team that the cheating spotlight is on, it's going to seem like more than just coincidence.
 
How can a multi-billion dollar operation that can broadcast it's games around the world on TVs, radios, PC, mobile phones, etc. not be able to get a basic headset communication to work properly?

 
You'd think they would at least have the backup two tin cans attached to string in case of an event such as this.

It's sad that a team this good had to cheat....even if they blow out every team this season and win the Super Bowl handily, the stink will remain.

 
grind said:
Per John Clayton..."To make matters worse, Gibbs and the coaches lost their communication system during the game. They couldn't work the headsets."There were issues," Gibbs said. "It's a problem across the league. I don't want to use that as an excuse for what happened to us today. We'll just continue to let the league know what happened to us today, and we'll just have to see how they deal with it."Hard to beleive this game was at Foxboro. I'm completely shocked.
It says in the quote that Gibbs said it's a problem that happens across the league.
First of all, I think Gibbs is saying it's a problem for visiting teams across the league, which is not good. Second, I believe the NFL needs to take over control and setup of communications equipment. I'm all for homefield advantage, but this actively interferes with a team's ability to internally function during a game. It's not right and the outcome of games shouldn't be affected by this stuff (and no, yesterday's game @ NE wasn't).
 
How can a multi-billion dollar operation that can broadcast it's games around the world on TVs, radios, PC, mobile phones, etc. not be able to get a basic headset communication to work properly?
:goodposting: It's actually an embarrassment.
 
grind said:
Per John Clayton..."To make matters worse, Gibbs and the coaches lost their communication system during the game. They couldn't work the headsets."There were issues," Gibbs said. "It's a problem across the league. I don't want to use that as an excuse for what happened to us today. We'll just continue to let the league know what happened to us today, and we'll just have to see how they deal with it."Hard to beleive this game was at Foxboro. I'm completely shocked.
It says in the quote that Gibbs said it's a problem that happens across the league.
First of all, I think Gibbs is saying it's a problem for visiting teams across the league, which is not good. Second, I believe the NFL needs to take over control and setup of communications equipment. I'm all for homefield advantage, but this actively interferes with a team's ability to internally function during a game. It's not right and the outcome of games shouldn't be affected by this stuff (and no, yesterday's game @ NE wasn't).
Correct, that is what he's implying which also means visiting teams that visit his stadium. It is not good in anyway to have one team using the equipment and not the other. Of course I think the problem should be fixed but at the very least, things need to be neutralized STAT. If the Redskins equipment isn't working, they're should be a stoppage in play immediately.Gibbs should call over the official and let him know what's going on right then. An immediate decision of turning off both headsets should be made until they are both actively working again.
 
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According to the Washington Post:

For the third time this season, the Washington Redskins had headset problems between the coaches and quarterback Jason Campbell.

This time, though, the problems were not as severe as they were in the loss to the Green Bay Packers at Lambeau Field on Oct. 4.

...

Gibbs said he would report the problems to the league, as he has in the past. Campbell, who also had headset problems in the Redskins' 20-12 victory over the Eagles in Philadelphia, said the problems forced the offense to hurry on "one or two plays," and "it wasn't that big of a deal."
And since people only care about rumormongering: Hmm, Green Bay claims they caught the Pats last year but never reported it to the league. Maybe they knew that any investigation would implicate the Packers, too?
 
grind said:
Per John Clayton..."To make matters worse, Gibbs and the coaches lost their communication system during the game. They couldn't work the headsets."There were issues," Gibbs said. "It's a problem across the league. I don't want to use that as an excuse for what happened to us today. We'll just continue to let the league know what happened to us today, and we'll just have to see how they deal with it."Hard to beleive this game was at Foxboro. I'm completely shocked.
It says in the quote that Gibbs said it's a problem that happens across the league.
yeah - to every team that plays in Foxboro
 
the referees have a HD instant reply at every stadium except Indy, NY, and Dallas.
Polian spends his resources and time obsessing over NE and how to complain about them. Doesn't surprise me he's behind the curve on getting state of the art equipment.
 
grind said:
Per John Clayton..."To make matters worse, Gibbs and the coaches lost their communication system during the game. They couldn't work the headsets.

"There were issues," Gibbs said. "It's a problem across the league. I don't want to use that as an excuse for what happened to us today. We'll just continue to let the league know what happened to us today, and we'll just have to see how they deal with it."

Hard to beleive this game was at Foxboro. I'm completely shocked.
It says in the quote that Gibbs said it's a problem that happens across the league.
First of all, I think Gibbs is saying it's a problem for visiting teams across the league, which is not good. Second, I believe the NFL needs to take over control and setup of communications equipment. I'm all for homefield advantage, but this actively interferes with a team's ability to internally function during a game. It's not right and the outcome of games shouldn't be affected by this stuff (and no, yesterday's game @ NE wasn't).
Correct, that is what he's implying which also means visiting teams that visit his stadium. It is not good in anyway to have one team using the equipment and not the other. Of course I think the problem should be fixed but at the very least, things need to be neutralized STAT. If the Redskins equipment isn't working, they're should be a stoppage in play immediately.Gibbs should call over the official and let him know what's going on right then. An immediate decision of turning off both headsets should be made until they are both actively working again.
What happened in Green Bay and what appears to have happened yesterday was that there was intermittant disruption to these communications, which is actually worse than having no communications at all. The reason is that if you think you have a good communication link, you start to use it only to have it drop; now time has passed and you have to hurry to communicate in a different manner. This happened a lot during the Green Bay link with Campbell's helmet receiver. The fact that it's intermittant also makes it tougher to demonstrate to officials that it's occurring, like the proverbial problem in your car that disappears the moment your mechanic gets in for a ride to observe it personally.
 
Watched the game and the announcers said 'The Pats were supposed to turn off theirs'. Didn't see where they ever confirmed that occurred.

Look this was one of the gripes that alot of teams voiced about the Pats when they were caught cheating and until they fix it will continue being an issue. Why it only occurs to the opponents communications at Foxboro lends itself to the tongue wagging. No way Washington wins that game even if THEY have video of Pats playcalling but it still smells fishy.

This is but a consequence of the Pats decision to cheat in the first place; deal with it.
:thumbup: Until they show that they've changed there act (and it'll take awhile), people are going to keep raking them over the coals.
I'm pretty sure the Patriots organization doesn't give 2 s&*ts about what this message board rakes over the coals. Speculate all you want, complain & whine all you want, but sit back & enjoy watching history being made.
 

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