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Surprised at Cincinnatti's record (1 Viewer)

fantasizing

Footballguy
With all this talent on board , I put the blame squarely on the shoulders of the coaches.

I think they should take the leashes off and let Benson, Palmer, Ocho, and TO go wild for the last remaining 8 games.

This team could probably score 50 pts a game if the coaches didn't impose such suffocating conservative play-calling..

Just my thoughts..

 
With all this talent on board , I put the blame squarely on the shoulders of the coaches.I think they should take the leashes off and let Benson, Palmer, Ocho, and TO go wild for the last remaining 8 games.This team could probably score 50 pts a game if the coaches didn't impose such suffocating conservative play-calling..Just my thoughts..
Time for Marvin to pass the torch.
 
tough schedule, bad luck and not as much talent as you think are the bigger reasons. but ya, the playcalling is depressing. run every first and 2nd down then put the pressure on palmer.

 
Aside from the 2-6 part, you could paste this in for 12 NFL teams this year and not get much argument. Lot of mediocre football and downright unimaginative coaching.

 
With all this talent on board , I put the blame squarely on the shoulders of the coaches.I think they should take the leashes off and let Benson, Palmer, Ocho, and TO go wild for the last remaining 8 games.This team could probably score 50 pts a game if the coaches didn't impose such suffocating conservative play-calling..Just my thoughts..
Do you have Benson, Ocho, TO or Palmer and need to make the playoffs?
 
Cincy was one of the worst teams ever to finish with an above .500 record last year. Palmer looks borderline done, they have no pass rush, their mediocre OL is more mediocre than last year, etc, etc.

 
With all this talent on board , I put the blame squarely on the shoulders of the coaches.I think they should take the leashes off and let Benson, Palmer, Ocho, and TO go wild for the last remaining 8 games.This team could probably score 50 pts a game if the coaches didn't impose such suffocating conservative play-calling..Just my thoughts..
Do you have Benson, Ocho, TO or Palmer and need to make the playoffs?
this shtick is getting really old.
 
Cincy was one of the worst teams ever to finish with an above .500 record last year. Palmer looks borderline done, they have no pass rush, their mediocre OL is more mediocre than last year, etc, etc.
Nice use of hyperbole. By the end of last season this team was running on fumes. They were decimated by injuries. It was certainly not the same team that swept the Ravens and Steelers.This season they blew several games they would have won last year (Browns, Bucs, Miami, and Steelers). The coaching is very poor and the playcalling is terrible.
 
Just like the Cowboys - you have teams (or players in the Cincinnati case) that are popular and everyone always asks what's wrong - Palmer is stinking up the joint, and the defense as regressed . . . Chad has also gone backwards . . .

 
Another home run by Aaron Schatz and Co.

"Even if Jones and/or Jones makes the most of his chance at redemption, the likelihood of a repeat division title or even a playoff berth appears slim."

2010 Mean Projection: 5.5 wins

 
With all this talent on board , I put the blame squarely on the shoulders of the coaches.I think they should take the leashes off and let Benson, Palmer, Ocho, and TO go wild for the last remaining 8 games.This team could probably score 50 pts a game if the coaches didn't impose such suffocating conservative play-calling..Just my thoughts..
Do you have Benson, Ocho, TO or Palmer and need to make the playoffs?
Just TO, and no complaints there. In fact, TO would be the #1 WR in the NFL if it wasn't for the pedestrian play calling and Palmer's inaccuracy issues.
 
Cincy was one of the worst teams ever to finish with an above .500 record last year. Palmer looks borderline done, they have no pass rush, their mediocre OL is more mediocre than last year, etc, etc.
Nice use of hyperbole. By the end of last season this team was running on fumes. They were decimated by injuries. It was certainly not the same team that swept the Ravens and Steelers.This season they blew several games they would have won last year (Browns, Bucs, Miami, and Steelers). The coaching is very poor and the playcalling is terrible.
I have more issue with Brat in this regard (but he's needed to go for some time now) than Marvin, personally.Palmer has blown hot and cold. The less faith he appears to have in the pass protection, the more he'll hurry and make errors. I think it's correctable. I think there's hidden problem (receivers that run the wrong route for example that might make him look particularly bad on a given play). But certainly he's nowhere near where he was in '05.They've lost a lot of close ones. Horrendously timed breakdowns and blunders for sure. Not sure what coach can give them a brain transplant.The one thing I have to say though, in contrast to teams that will remain nameless (*cough* Dallas *cough*) is that they continue to play really hard. In fact that play their best once they've gotten behind. Marvin hasn't lost the team. There's a lot of good young talent that's learning. Anyhow, that's my jumble of thoughts.Will be starting the '11 offseason thread probably in the next week or so anyhow and I'll try to have more organized thoughts on where things are going.-QG
 
With all this talent on board , I put the blame squarely on the shoulders of the coaches.I think they should take the leashes off and let Benson, Palmer, Ocho, and TO go wild for the last remaining 8 games.This team could probably score 50 pts a game if the coaches didn't impose such suffocating conservative play-calling..Just my thoughts..
Do you have Benson, Ocho, TO or Palmer and need to make the playoffs?
Just TO, and no complaints there. In fact, TO would be the #1 WR in the NFL if it wasn't for the pedestrian play calling and Palmer's inaccuracy issues.
You're assuming that TO always is where he's supposed to be all the time or never drops passes. He's had a fantastic season but I'm not convinced that different play callings bump up his numbers - guys like Ocho, Shipley and Gresham would probably be the ones to most benefit.-QG
 
With all this talent on board , I put the blame squarely on the shoulders of the coaches.I think they should take the leashes off and let Benson, Palmer, Ocho, and TO go wild for the last remaining 8 games.This team could probably score 50 pts a game if the coaches didn't impose such suffocating conservative play-calling..Just my thoughts..
Every team has horses, Palmer, the needed ring leader, just happens to be overrated based on his one great year. I became a non-believer last year and didnt expect much on this dance.
 
Every time I watch a Bengals game, I think, "Good god Carson Palmer is terrible!"

Then the next day I read the box score and he completed 60% of his passes for 300 yards and 2 TDs.

 
Cincy was one of the worst teams ever to finish with an above .500 record last year. Palmer looks borderline done, they have no pass rush, their mediocre OL is more mediocre than last year, etc, etc.
Nice use of hyperbole. By the end of last season this team was running on fumes. They were decimated by injuries. It was certainly not the same team that swept the Ravens and Steelers.This season they blew several games they would have won last year (Browns, Bucs, Miami, and Steelers). The coaching is very poor and the playcalling is terrible.
It seems that last season they won all of the tight games, and this season they are losing them. I think that this is solely in the coaches hands. The play calling has been awful. It's like they are stuck inbetween being a power run team and an all out passing team a la Andy Reid.
 
benson is slow but he seems to find holes and fall forward well. id still prefer scott to get role.

palmer had a beautiful pass to owens in that pitt game. hes pretty sporadic throw to throw. nice sack rate tho.

i dont agree that coaches are the biggest factor in tight games. proly more luck than you would imagine.

 
With all this talent on board , I put the blame squarely on the shoulders of the coaches.I think they should take the leashes off and let Benson, Palmer, Ocho, and TO go wild for the last remaining 8 games.This team could probably score 50 pts a game if the coaches didn't impose such suffocating conservative play-calling..Just my thoughts..
Do you have Benson, Ocho, TO or Palmer and need to make the playoffs?
Just TO, and no complaints there. In fact, TO would be the #1 WR in the NFL if it wasn't for the pedestrian play calling and Palmer's inaccuracy issues.
Or if he could catch balls that hit both hands... or not stop running his route to lose the Miami game.
 
It's PALMER!!! That's it. Sure, his stats may not show it, but he isn't the same. Hasn't been for 2 years now. But he's the "golden child" here, so all his bad throws are blamed on the wr's or the oline.

The def is playing fairly well and cedric doesn't look slow. He just doesn't get the opportunity. He does well when they do decide to stick to the run, but for some reason, they want to pass first now.

Ultimately, it has been Carson's ineptness that is killin' them.

 
Palmer is putting up quality fantasy numbers because this team is constantly playing from behind but that doesn't translate to wins at all. Factor in that Ocho has completely regressed as a player, Benson is a grinder and front runner not a big play guy, the defense isn't getting much of a pass rush ... they just have all the makings of a mediocre team at best.

 
Last year this team won many games on the last drive or overtime. This year they're not getting those bounces. They've been in most of these games and aren't pulling out the last minute heroics. Last years team was closer to a 6-10 team than most realized. We're just looking at an average team with a really tough schedule. Time to blow it up.

 
Palmer is not very good. He has essentially no zip on his passes. Monday night was painful to watch. He has throws a nice ball with some air under it, but the sad thing is that almost everything he throws has to have some air under it to get where it's going.

 
FantasyTrader said:
Aside from the 2-6 part, you could paste this in for 12 NFL teams this year and not get much argument. Lot of mediocre football and downright unimaginative coaching.
Couldn't agree more about the play calling, their whole strategy revolves around getting TO the ball, and alienate rest of the play makers. Now the team chemistry is in the toilets. After losing 3 in the row I figure they opt to change it up, unfortunately it's five in a row now. Bye bye Marvin!
 
Top 5 reasons for Cincinnati's record.

1. Bratkowski is awful. Easily the worst Coordinator in the league.

2. Marvin is not a good gameday coach. Bad at challenges, clock managment/timeouts especially.

3. Carson still has issues. He puts up decent numbers at the end of the day, but far too often he is sailing balls high across the middle, making poor reads, and tends to be very inconsistent on the velocity he gets on the ball.

4. The defense is not playing well, especially compared to expectation. The front 4 are failing to get pressure on teh QB for the most part, and they dont blitz LBs enough IMO. Basically forces your CBs (who are actually pretty good) to have to cover for 4-6 seconds on every pass. I dont care how good you are, a NFL WR is getting open eventually.

5. This organization does not rise to expectations. They can pull off the underdog card every few years, but when they are expected to win, they fail.

Marvin is gone. Despite his deficiencies, I have less confidence that this front office will get someone better in there. Who will replace him? Some talk the pipe dream of Cowher, but no way would he come to Cincinnati and deal with Mike Brown meddling in everything. They will probably promote Zimmer. I fear he is playing at his ceiling so to speak. Good DC, not sure he can handle HC. Bottom line, it's looking like blow up and start over is coming very soon.

 
I still have a hard time accepting that Palmer is the biggest problem on this team.

He is ranked 7th in the NFL in passing, close to 60% completion pct (not great, but not horrific either), and is on pace for 4,200 yards, 28 TD's and 16 INTs.

Definately, his poor foot work is contributing to the high sailing balls, but it seems that's always been a problem with him even when he first came into the league.

I understand that the team is constantly playing from behind and that is inflating his stats a bit. But, at the same time, he is rallying the team from behind.

On Monday night, he drove them down the field in a position to the win the game, but Shipley drops the 4th and 5 pass. On that drive, Palmer was pin point accurate with his throws.

They need to show that urgency and aggressiveness early on in games.

 
the Tampa game, Palmer threw 2 picks in the last 2 minutes that cost them the game. Miami game threw a pick on the 10 yard line down 8 late in the game.

 
2nd pick in the tampa game was fully ochos fault tho.

anyway, i agree pretty much fully with notdarkyets analysis. tho i would put #4 as the most important reason they are losing.

 
This SI article by Paul Daugherty pretty much sums it up...

Hope springs infernal in Cincinnati where, God help us, we believed the Bengals would be good this fall, for the second consecutive season. It's a peculiar, Charlie Brown faith that sustains Bengals fans, and it was furthered last offseason. A good defensive team took bold, very un-Bengals-like leaps to strengthen the offense. They signed Antonio Bryant and Terrell Owens. They took a pass-catching tight end, Jermaine Gresham, in the first round of the draft. They found a useful wideout, Jordan Shipley, in Round 3.

Coming off a division title in '09, things looked bright.

How quickly we forget.

These are the Bengals.

The Bengals haven't had consecutive winning seasons since 1982. They haven't won a playoff game since 1990, which makes sense, given the Bengals have only played in two playoff games since 1990.

Halfway home this year, the Bengals are nowhere. They are 2-6, with a game Sunday at Indianapolis. Very likely, the Bengals will be favored to win no more than two of their last eight, home games with Buffalo and Cleveland. That would give them a 4-12 record and make the 2010 club the most disappointing in the franchise's 43 seasons, in a town where NFL disappointment is a way of life.

There are tangible reasons for failure in 2010. Probably, some of them are good.

The Bengals don't rush the passer. They have seven sacks in eight games. They don't protect the passer. Carson Palmer has been sacked 14 times and has spent considerable time swiveling his head.

Palmer, the erstwhile elite quarterback, is inconsistent. Some of it is not his fault. How would you like to run the playpen inhabited by both Owens and Chad Ochocinco?

On offense, the play calling is unimaginative. Fans at Paul Brown Stadium can be heard yelling "Cedric Benson, off tackle!'' before a play when Cedric Benson runs off tackle.

Coach Marvin Lewis appears burned out, maxed out and, occasionally, spaced out. Regardless, Lewis, in the last year of his contract, likely will be out after this season, probably by his own choosing.

Of course, there is the matter of ownership. The Bengals run an NFL corporation like a corner store that sells pretzel rods from a jar by the cash register. The media guide lists one scout. The "personnel department'' includes four people not directly related to the owner (five if you count a secretary) and two "consultants.''

Cincinnati's loss Monday night to the Pittsburgh Steelers was the 200th in Mike Brown's 20-year tenure as the team's president and majority owner. Brown is now the quickest owner to 200 defeats in NFL history, surpassing former Atlanta Falcons owner Rankin Smith.So there is all of that. None of it explains the Bengals.

To do that, you have to take a trip back in time, before the Bengals moved into Paul Brown Stadium, the taxpayer-financed luxury venue they've occupied since 2000. Back to Spinney Field, several acres of flatland just west of downtown, beneath a viaduct that leaked toxic crud that literally stripped the paint from cars parked below its span.

There, you will see former Pro Bowl tackle Willie Anderson, trying to dry his massive body with a towel the size of a floor mat. Anderson was 6-foot-5 and weighed 340 pounds. In his mitts, the towel looked like a Kleenex.

That was the Bengals.

So was this: Former MVP quarterback Boomer Esiason, sitting in a meeting with new and completely unqualified coach Dave Shula, when Shula asked all the players for their home phone numbers. Esiason gave Shula the number for a local pizza restaurant.

And this: ESPN had a camera in quarterback David Klingler's living room, when the Bengals took the former University of Houston star with the sixth overall choice in the '92 draft. Klingler's nationally televised response was something along the lines of, "Oh, no.''After the Lost Decade of the 90s -- 52 wins, 43 if you don't count 9-7 in 1990 --there wasn't a grocery bag big enough for this franchise's head.

Over the years, some of us honed our survival skills. Self preservation is the strongest human instinct. I've been here since '88. I've witnessed 350 Bengals football games, give or take. Don't feel sorry for the players, who make lots of money and are generally gone after a few years. Don't feel bad for the fans. They are addicts and enablers. The Bengals have sold out 57 consecutive home games.

Bengals fans are the Kevin Bacon character in Animal House, the frat pledge begging for another paddle-whacking:

"Thank you sir, may I have another!''

Plus, fans can leave. They can walk away from love, anytime they want.

Feel sorry for me. I have to watch this stuff, week after year after decade. Real men don't leave. Especially if they're getting paid. We learn to deal.

During one especially horrid stretch of football -- it could have been the 3-13 year in '93 or the 3-13 year in '94 or the 3-13 of '98 or the consecutive leaps to 4-12 in '99 and 2000, the mind hazes -- I offered in print to rake the leaves in someone's yard, instead of attending yet another Bengals disaster. My only requirement was that the game not be on. I got several hundred responses and spent a fabulous fall afternoon piling up a stranger's dead leaves by the curb.

One other time, 12 games into another season of abject hopelessness, I suggested in print that I would very much like to not write about the Bengals the rest of the year. I had run out of synonyms for "lousy.'' During games, I had begun retreating, shellshocked, to the media dining area behind the Paul Brown Stadium press box, where a bank of TVs displayed actual NFL games.

After 12 games, I asked the readers for mercy. Will you parole me from the last month of the Bengals season?

A few thousand responded. Some said, "Take a break, we feel for you.'' Many more said, "Only if you make it permanent.''

By then, I had watched so much terrible football, I could predict, Nostradamus-like, exactly when the Bengals would do something so hideous on the field that it would surpass anything else hideous they'd done that day.

I called them Bengal Moments. BMs.

The finest Bengal Moment occurred in Week 2 of the glorious, 2-14 campaign in 2002. Bengals quarterback Gus Frerotte was flushed from the pocket (either that, or he took the snap and immediately started running for his life), ran left, crossed the scrimmage line, then threw a left-handed pass.

It was intercepted, naturally, by a Cleveland defensive end named Kenard Lang, who returned it 71 yards.

Just before that play, I'd turned to the reporter to my left, another guy sentenced to spending his fall Sundays witnessing football atrocities. "Time for a Bengal Moment,'' I'd said.

More than two decades into it, I have also developed an acute awareness of when a player or coach has been overwhelmed and/or given in to the way things are done in Bengaldom. These individuals become beaten down to the point of apathy. Symptoms include shrugging shoulders, hands in a palms-upward position of supplication and a 20-mile stare into the middle elsewhere, where NFL teams have scouting departments and the towels are bigger.

Everyone who works for the Bengals becomes Bengal-ized, sooner or later.

It's not a franchise determined to win. Not at all. Winning is a want in Bengaldom, like hitting the Powerball jackpot or marrying a Victoria's Secret model. It's not exactly a calling. Ownership makes money, regardless.

So why aren't the 2010 Bengals winning? Why aren't they as good as advertised?

Because they're the Bengals.That's the best I can do.

They're Big Willie Anderson, emerging from the shower with a towel that would fit on a business envelope. Twenty years of losing, and losing becomes who you are.

We believed they would be good, for the second year in a row.

We should have known better.

 
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fantasizing said:
I still have a hard time accepting that Palmer is the biggest problem on this team.

He is ranked 7th in the NFL in passing, close to 60% completion pct (not great, but not horrific either), and is on pace for 4,200 yards, 28 TD's and 16 INTs.

Definately, his poor foot work is contributing to the high sailing balls, but it seems that's always been a problem with him even when he first came into the league.

I understand that the team is constantly playing from behind and that is inflating his stats a bit. But, at the same time, he is rallying the team from behind.

On Monday night, he drove them down the field in a position to the win the game, but Shipley drops the 4th and 5 pass. On that drive, Palmer was pin point accurate with his throws.

They need to show that urgency and aggressiveness early on in games.
Palmer's slightly below average in CMP% and Net yards per attempt, but even those numbers are inflated. Check out this:http://wp.advancednflstats.com/playerstats.php?pos=QB

In terms of Expected Points Added -- Palmer looks middle of the pack. But in terms of Win Probability Added -- Palmer is second to last. That's because he's had a bunch of really valuable interceptions thrown and because he's padded his numbers in garbage time.

 
Long-time Bengals fan. I've seen it all since 1970. The legend Paul Brown retires and picks his successor -- Tiger Johnson -- who is fired after a few years of losing records. meanwhile, an assistant coach on that staff, Bill Walsh, goes on to win Super Bowls with the 49ers. Fast forward to present day. Our play calling is stupifying. Against the Steelers Benson carries twice for nine yards. It's third down and one. Palmer drops back into the shotgum with an empty backfield. Incomplete pass followed by a punt. Why not run the ball one more time? It's crazy. Lewis looks like he's checked out. No fire there. Ocho is an embarrassment. And Mike Brown thinks he knows more about football than he does so he involves himself much the same way Jerry Jones does with the Cowboys. I could go on and on. I agree Palmer doesn't look right but it's not all his fault. This team has no identity. They can't play a whole game. It's frustrating...almost enough to cause me to make a team change but that will never happen. I will always have hope that Bengals management will wake up and figure out the changes that need to be made and take a step in the right direction. We can hope can't we?

 

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