Talking College Football (1 Viewer)

[Jeff Pasquino]

Ok, sure.....

This isn't 100% NFL news, but it is Friday and I can always move the thread. Pass over it if you want.

I heard Mel Kiper on Mike and Mike lamenting that there needs to be a playoff system. Then Mike Greenberg later chimed in that why should the 12th or 16th team have the same chance as the #1 team to win the title in a "one and done" playoff format?

I think that's a flaVVed argument by Greenberg, and the answer lies in using elements from the lower level (Div II or Div III) playoff systems AND the NFL Playoff System (hey look, this is NFL Talk!).

Here's what I would suggest:

Take the Top 12 BCS / Ranked teams.

#1 Thru #4 get Byes, just like the NFL.

#5 Thru #8 host the bottom 4 teams AT THEIR HOME STADIUMS. So USC would host Rutgers, for example.

There - now there are two levels of advantage. The Top 4 get a bye. The middle 4 get a home game.

An argument could be made (strong one, either way) as to how to play the Round of 8 - 4 Bowl games (neutral site), 4 home games at the site of the Top 4 teams, or a hybrid where you regionalize the Top 4 and put them in the closest bowl game. I think it would be likely the first option, but I'd take any of these.

Of course the Semis and Finals would be a huge deal and played in Bowl Games.

Thoughts?

 

[wannabee]

I would love a playoff system, but the colleges make a ton of money with the current Bowl arrangement. Any playoff, imo, would need to include some type of Bowl setup. I think it could, and should, be done ... but still looking for a plan that all parties would agree to.

Any one have thoughts on what type playoff system would make all concerned happy or content?

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

I would love a playoff system, but the colleges make a ton of money with the current Bowl arrangement. Any playoff, imo, would need to include some type of Bowl setup. I think it could, and should, be done ... but still looking for a plan that all parties would agree to. Any one have thoughts on what type playoff system would make all concerned happy or content?

I think 7 bowl games (Round of 8, 4 and Finals) would cover it nicely, and the 4 games added in the plan I outlined above would be local / home games for the 5-8 seeds.The bowls would remain, as Teams 13-60+ all want to go bowling.

 

[Tiger Fan]

search the FFA

 

[Marc Levin]

The way they appease the big Bowls these days is by rotating the NC game each year - I think that can still work with Jeff's proposed playoff rounds, but the number of teams has to be reduced from 12 to 8.

There would be byes for the top-4, 5-8 play each other, the 1-4 teams would be in the four major Bowls, and they would host the winners of the 5-12 rounds.

Wait two weeks, and the last two teams standing play for the nat'l champ - again, rotating which Bowl gets the game.

The problem I see is that college fans can, under the current system, plan on travelling to their team's Bowl game. With the playoff system proposed, filling those 65G+ stadiums might be tough - you don't knwo if your team's first week playing is their last, and you then have to consider whether you can make the next game and, potentially, the one after that.

Those considerations are what, IMO, have stifled a big playoff system/.

 

[Tiger Fan]

The way they appease the big Bowls these days is by rotating the NC game each year - I think that can still work with Jeff's proposed playoff rounds, but the number of teams has to be reduced from 12 to 8.There would be byes for the top-4, 5-8 play each other, the 1-4 teams would be in the four major Bowls, and they would host the winners of the 5-12 rounds.Wait two weeks, and the last two teams standing play for the nat'l champ - again, rotating which Bowl gets the game.The problem I see is that college fans can, under the current system, plan on travelling to their team's Bowl game. With the playoff system proposed, filling those 65G+ stadiums might be tough - you don't knwo if your team's first week playing is their last, and you then have to consider whether you can make the next game and, potentially, the one after that.Those considerations are what, IMO, have stifled a big playoff system/.

For years I've been saying that the travel issue is one of the biggest obsticles. I can only speak for SEC fans, but I can tell you that it would be very tough for the die hard fans to travel 3 weeks in a row during the holidays

 

[Kal El]

I'd like to see a playoff system, with a type of home-field advantage set up. I don't know how effectively this would work, though.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

The way they appease the big Bowls these days is by rotating the NC game each year - I think that can still work with Jeff's proposed playoff rounds, but the number of teams has to be reduced from 12 to 8.There would be byes for the top-4, 5-8 play each other, the 1-4 teams would be in the four major Bowls, and they would host the winners of the 5-12 rounds.Wait two weeks, and the last two teams standing play for the nat'l champ - again, rotating which Bowl gets the game.The problem I see is that college fans can, under the current system, plan on travelling to their team's Bowl game. With the playoff system proposed, filling those 65G+ stadiums might be tough - you don't knwo if your team's first week playing is their last, and you then have to consider whether you can make the next game and, potentially, the one after that.Those considerations are what, IMO, have stifled a big playoff system/.

For years I've been saying that the travel issue is one of the biggest obsticles. I can only speak for SEC fans, but I can tell you that it would be very tough for the die hard fans to travel 3 weeks in a row during the holidays

Make the Round of 8 the Typical Holiday Week.Round of 4 is held 2-3 weeks later but not in conflict to the NFL playoff games (Saturday before the AFC/NFC Champ. Games would be ideal). That's 3 weeks after the Round of 8.Final Game is either Saturday before or Monday after the Super Bowl.Sell the NCAA Championship as a Super Bowl type game if need be, and that would limit the "team travel" issue. National appeal (like the Final 4) gets fans of the sport, not necessarily of the participating teams.There's already talks about the "Plus One" format (4 BCS bowls and an additional game afterward), so this is close to that already (4+2+1).My .

 

[J R]

Here's what I would suggest:Take the Top 12 BCS / Ranked teams.#1 Thru #4 get Byes, just like the NFL.

But already right here your system is flawed. The BCS, as well as probably voters in both polls, is hopelessly contaminated by ESPN-thinking. Just look for instance at the way that Sagarin has to use a different system for ranking teams for the BCS, even though it much less accurately predicts outcomes of games (and thus less accurately represents how teams should be ranked according to relative strength). It seems that ever since the BCS began, we've seen adjustments made to the system because the computer rankings don't agree lockstep with the polls, which means they don't agree with ESPN's ranking. Also, not only do the polls have more weight in the BCS formula, but the formula includes a ranking by number of losses, even though that's primarily how people vote in the polls anyway. So, under this system, which seems to arbitrarily and not-so-accurately rank teams, I would be against any playoff that gives any team byes, let alone lets sportswriters or ESPN decide seeds.If there's going to be a playoff, why not make/take the 8 biggest conferences and give them all playoff games (so no more of the Big 11 trying to sneak its teams through and no more special privileges for the irish), effectively making the playoffs a field of 16. Then perhaps seed the 8 remaining teams with an NFL type of tiebreaker system. Get rid of polls, the BCS, the college football version of horserace politics, and banish the "gameday crew" to an alternate universe where that crappy theme song plays on an endless loop.

 

[CalBear]

I don't think college football schools, students, or fans need some sort of Tidy Bowl. It's only people who aren't fans of college football, who only start paying attention in December, who want a playoff system. The BCS is an abomination and a playoff would be worse.

 

[Tiger Fan]

The way they appease the big Bowls these days is by rotating the NC game each year - I think that can still work with Jeff's proposed playoff rounds, but the number of teams has to be reduced from 12 to 8.There would be byes for the top-4, 5-8 play each other, the 1-4 teams would be in the four major Bowls, and they would host the winners of the 5-12 rounds.Wait two weeks, and the last two teams standing play for the nat'l champ - again, rotating which Bowl gets the game.The problem I see is that college fans can, under the current system, plan on travelling to their team's Bowl game. With the playoff system proposed, filling those 65G+ stadiums might be tough - you don't knwo if your team's first week playing is their last, and you then have to consider whether you can make the next game and, potentially, the one after that.Those considerations are what, IMO, have stifled a big playoff system/.

For years I've been saying that the travel issue is one of the biggest obsticles. I can only speak for SEC fans, but I can tell you that it would be very tough for the die hard fans to travel 3 weeks in a row during the holidays

Make the Round of 8 the Typical Holiday Week.Round of 4 is held 2-3 weeks later but not in conflict to the NFL playoff games (Saturday before the AFC/NFC Champ. Games would be ideal). That's 3 weeks after the Round of 8.Final Game is either Saturday before or Monday after the Super Bowl.Sell the NCAA Championship as a Super Bowl type game if need be, and that would limit the "team travel" issue. National appeal (like the Final 4) gets fans of the sport, not necessarily of the participating teams.There's already talks about the "Plus One" format (4 BCS bowls and an additional game afterward), so this is close to that already (4+2+1).My .

Having 3 weeks b/w playoff games would never work

 

[Tiger Fan]

I don't think college football schools, students, or fans need some sort of Tidy Bowl. It's only people who aren't fans of college football, who only start paying attention in December, who want a playoff system. The BCS is an abomination and a playoff would be worse.

huh?

 

[rzrback77]

The " Bowl Tradition" that college football cherished in the past seems to me to have been convoluted by the new BCS rotate the National Championship game set-up. They also had the too many games argument, but now the twelfth game has been added to the schedule. It always has been about the money.

Even with all the negatives involved, too much fan travel, too many games, too nebulous about the cut-offs, I believe that the networks will figure out a presentation over the next five years or so and it will come about. I expect that it will likely be only four teams at first and will expand to eight and then sixteen as the money flows.

Concerning the BCS talk this year, it seems very interesting to me that first Auburn and now Florida are the primary SEC teams discussed at the top, yet both Tennessee and Arkansas remain as one loss teams who in effect control their own destiny, just as Florida does.

Similarly, if Florida or Tennessee or Arkansas, get passed over by an undefeated Louisville, that would really be tough for the SEC, considered year in and year out as the top conference or at least near the top would have had an undefeated champion Auburn that was left out and now a one loss champion could be passed over by a weak schedule undefeated Louisville.

A Playoff would not solve all the ills, but it would be better and would create such a huge cash cow for the networks, the conferences, and the schools that it is inevitable.

 

[WhoDat]

I would love a playoff system, but the colleges make a ton of money with the current Bowl arrangement. Any playoff, imo, would need to include some type of Bowl setup. I think it could, and should, be done ... but still looking for a plan that all parties would agree to.

Any one have thoughts on what type playoff system would make all concerned happy or content?

You can stop the dialogue right there. There is WAY too much money at stake for the large conferences to concede to any sort of change or playoff system. That revenue stream for a conference and respective schools is not going to be jeopardized. It is not going to change and, given the amount of revenue a conference like the SEC generates with bowl appearances, networks getting involved is not going to make a damn bit of difference. The NCAA is the dog and network TV is the tail in that scenario not vice versa.

I agree there needs to be change but I do not see football heavy conferences getting good with this idea. They generate far too much cash with the current economic system and will take the if it ain't broke, don't fix it approach.

 

[Tau837]

I have long thought that they need a playoff system. Here is a proposed system I came up with years ago:

8 teams.

Why? Primarily because it mimics the number of BCS bowl teams prior to this year, and thus leaves the rest of the bowl system intact. Personally, I think going to more than 8 teams creates too much of a change for a playoff system to be pulled off, as it would disrupt several non-BCS bowls.

Also because the driving reason for a playoff should be to ensure we crown the right champion… and it is unlikely that a team that does not qualify for the playoff in this system would have had a real shot. I can't see teams that would be in the 14, 15, 16 range having a legitimate chance to win 4 straight games against the quality teams in a 16 team field anyway... so it isn't necessary to go that deep.

BCS conference champs get an automatic bid.

Why? Same as current BCS system. No reason to change it.

One wild card must be from outside BCS conferences.

Why? Keeps the Cinderella factor alive all season every year, and ensures there is at least one David vs. Goliath game every year. Also, from the flip side, provides more incentive to finish as the #1 seed. This also makes the regular season even more important to the BCS conference teams, as they can count on only one wild card per season. Note: Notre Dame does not enjoy special status, although they may well be in position to often fill this slot. But use of a committee should help to ensure that they earn it.

A committee is used to select the wild cards and to seed the teams.

Why? Because no formula, Sagarin ratings, etc., can automatically take all important factors into account. If the committee chooses to use BCS ranking formula, Sagarin ratings, etc., that is their choice. But they do not have to blindly follow any particular system. All the same reasons it is appropriate in basketball apply here. Also, it preserves a bit of the unknown until the final conference championship game is played, which should only add to the drama down the stretch of the regular season.

Higher seeds play at home in the first round.

Why? It is too much to expect fans to travel on three consecutive weekends. Also, this provides incentive (both competitive and financial) for all contenders to impress the committee, via their scheduling and their play.

BCS bowl sites are used for the “Final 4″ games, with a rotation system used.

Why? Primarily to appease those bowl committees and to try to retain a bit of the old bowl tradition while still facilitating a needed playoff. The odd bowl out could still be played, as the “NIT” bowl… or it could just be skipped. Or instead of a rotation system, we could just choose to cut the Orange Bowl and always use the other three, simply rotating which is the title game. Or whatever.

---

That’s about it. Some of the commonly used arguments against a playoff system:

Too many games for the kids (academically and/or physically). Not really. All these kids would play a bowl game anyway. Only 4 teams will play more than the normal amount. And only 2 teams will play 2 extra games. And it is done at other levels of football. As for the academic side of it, the extra game(s) comes right at the start of a new semester at most schools, so it is doable.

Will reduce the current emphasis on the regular season, which is what makes college football great. On the contrary, the fact that at most 7 BCS conference teams can make it, with only one conference getting 2 teams, at least maintains the current sense of urgency. And the need to impress the committee for seeding purposes adds to it.

Will take away from the other bowls. Not so. Already there is a distinction made between the BCS bowls and non-BCS bowls. It would simply maintain that same distinction.

Won't happen because of money. This could be set up so the BCS conferences (i.e., the conferences getting paid by the BCS now) still get the same share as they currently do under the BCS. As for television, I cannot imagine that a playoff system like this would result in less ratings and/or money for the networks; on the contrary, I think it draw in many more fans than the current system, driving up ratings and thus dollars. So the only groups that stand to lose money are the ones for the two current BCS bowls that wouldn't be played. The NCAA and television powers that be could and should overcome this problem.

I am convinced that such a system would eclipse March Madness and be the most popular annual sports event other than possibly the Super Bowl.

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Thoughts?

 

[clinton_c]

I think the playoff will be small to start out...

Most likely 4 vs 1 and 3 vs 2 in 2 of the BCS bowls.

Then 2 weeks later the national champions in another BCS bowl.

There rest of the bowls would stay the course....

Regardless the system is flawed, and I think now that we are a few years down the line we are going to start seeing major confrences NEVER scheduling a tough out of confrence game.

so forget Ohio State/Texas in the regular season anymore...and expect Texas vs North Texas and Ohio State vs. Northern Ill.

 

[The Kansas Comet]

The " Bowl Tradition" that college football cherished in the past seems to me to have been convoluted by the new BCS rotate the National Championship game set-up.

Absolutely - for me, this is probably the worst aspect of the BCS. It renders every bowl game aside from the championship game relatively meaningless. The other bowls mean something to the fans of the teams participating, but ultimately, the significance of the other bowls on a national level is very low. Before the BCS, the big bowls meant something because in one bowl, you might have #1 vs. #5 in a game, while perhaps #2 was playing #4, and #3 was also in a New Year's Day bowl. That morning, all of those teams could wake up knowing they had a shot at winning a national championship that day. Instead, there is the suspense-less BCS set up. Still, that would be acceptable if the BCS delivered on its promise of pitting the top two undisputed teams in the title game year in and year out. But it doesn't - you have the USC/LSU split title, an undefeated Auburn not getting a shot, Nebraska making the title game after getting blown out by Colorado. In my opinion, the BCS took away much of the charm of the old system without fixing its one biggest flaw - getting an undisputed champion. I would rather see a playoff or the old system, but I'm not writing multi-millon dollar checks to the NCAA, so it doesn't really matter what I want, I guess.

 

[Marc Levin]

The way they appease the big Bowls these days is by rotating the NC game each year - I think that can still work with Jeff's proposed playoff rounds, but the number of teams has to be reduced from 12 to 8.There would be byes for the top-4, 5-8 play each other, the 1-4 teams would be in the four major Bowls, and they would host the winners of the 5-12 rounds.Wait two weeks, and the last two teams standing play for the nat'l champ - again, rotating which Bowl gets the game.The problem I see is that college fans can, under the current system, plan on travelling to their team's Bowl game. With the playoff system proposed, filling those 65G+ stadiums might be tough - you don't knwo if your team's first week playing is their last, and you then have to consider whether you can make the next game and, potentially, the one after that.Those considerations are what, IMO, have stifled a big playoff system/.

For years I've been saying that the travel issue is one of the biggest obsticles. I can only speak for SEC fans, but I can tell you that it would be very tough for the die hard fans to travel 3 weeks in a row during the holidays

Make the Round of 8 the Typical Holiday Week.Round of 4 is held 2-3 weeks later but not in conflict to the NFL playoff games (Saturday before the AFC/NFC Champ. Games would be ideal). That's 3 weeks after the Round of 8.Final Game is either Saturday before or Monday after the Super Bowl.Sell the NCAA Championship as a Super Bowl type game if need be, and that would limit the "team travel" issue. National appeal (like the Final 4) gets fans of the sport, not necessarily of the participating teams.There's already talks about the "Plus One" format (4 BCS bowls and an additional game afterward), so this is close to that already (4+2+1).My .

Two other major concerns for the NCAA are not inhibiting players from being able to devote time to winter final exams and not extending the season very far into January.Therefore, the ONLY system I could see the NCAA adopting is a 4-team playoff. Rotate the Nat'l Champ Bowl, but allow the #1 and #2 seed to play in their backyard sometime in the 2nd week of Dec. - whenever all those early Bowl games that noone cares about happen, you have a playoff between the top-4 teams. That actually benefits the NCAA b/c they can still have all their Bowl games and the fans only have one "provisional" travel week - the nat'l champ game. It also benefits the team b/c they have plenty of time to gameplan and practice for the nat'l champ game over X-Mas, and the Bowl system really doesn't have to change.Look - the top few teams who are invited to big name Bowls are basically idle all of Dec (to accomodate the winter final exam sitch. So, get the playoffs out of the way EARLYT instead of LATE. Two of the top-4 teams lose out on playing early Jan. - that is the only drawback I see.

 

[joffer]

top 8 teams, use the four BCS games for the quarterfinals, then a semifinal game, and the championship game the day before the superbowl. the greatest weekend of football EVAH.

 

[Marc Levin]

top 8 teams, use the four BCS games for the quarterfinals, then a semifinal game, and the championship game the day before the superbowl. the greatest weekend of football EVAH.

Like I said above, the NCAA will NEVER agree to a season that stretches though January.By the time kids get back from Winter Break, NCAA football must be done.

 

[GregR_2]

...Two other major concerns for the NCAA are not inhibiting players from being able to devote time to winter final exams and not extending the season very far into January....

They don't seem to have a problem with the players in every other division having a playoff that inhibits them from being able to devote time to winter final exams. And those players probably don't have someone else there taking the test for them like the Div IA player is going to. The ones from Miami anyway.I don't think we can buy that argument.

 

[joffer]

top 8 teams, use the four BCS games for the quarterfinals, then a semifinal game, and the championship game the day before the superbowl. the greatest weekend of football EVAH.

Like I said above, the NCAA will NEVER agree to a season that stretches though January.By the time kids get back from Winter Break, NCAA football must be done.

oh i know, that's just my dream.....

 

[Marc Levin]

...Two other major concerns for the NCAA are not inhibiting players from being able to devote time to winter final exams and not extending the season very far into January....

They don't seem to have a problem with the players in every other division having a playoff that inhibits them from being able to devote time to winter final exams. And those players probably don't have someone else there taking the test for them like the Div IA player is going to. The ones from Miami anyway.I don't think we can buy that argument.

That is definitely the NCAA's argument - and I doubt it is concern for the players as much as the fans.