Tanking in your league - Do you allow it? (1 Viewer)

[cscmtp]

There is a team in a 12 team dynasty league I belong to, that has been "tanking" this year. For example, week 1, starting Marion Barber and Fisher at RB while leaving J Jones on the bench. And starting Vines who was inactive, and leaving AJ on the bench. The year before, the league made a no tanking rule. That you must submit a full lineup each week, starting your best players.

First question, does everyone have a similar rule in their dynasty/keeper leagues?

Secondly, I'd like to know what people think of the response the commish made on the league board after seeing this occur the last 5 weeks-

"Team A, your roster is just plain rediculous. You are carrying 2 QBs that have zero value, and in every other league you're in, you have no where near 7 QBs on your roster. NO ONE DOES. Its clear to everyone in the league that you are trying to lose games this year to rebuild for next year. And we've been clear on the no tanking rule, that you must submit a starting lineup of your best players each week. However, you are in essence tanking by keeping dead weight on your roster, so when bye weeks come, you don't even have enough players at a given position to make a complete lineup. You only have 5 WRs on your roster, and one has been on the PUP list all year (Vines) You only have 1 TE so when Shockey's bye week came, what did you do? Submit a lineup without a TE. I want to ask you now, before I call a league vote, to drop the dead weight and crap on your team. Billy Volek, Patrick Ramsey, Scottie Vines...you tell me, and the rest of the league, when are you going to ever play them? I'm not sure you can convince anyone in the league that Holmes or Ricky Williams has any value either. Why keep dead weight when there are FAs out there that actually do play, and can score points? Why would you not have Lewis, Price, Hilliard, Bryson, Davenport, or other players that could actually help your team this year instead of starting no one? Oh, that's right, you don't want to win. I have a real problem with this, and want to know what the rest of the league thinks.

Final thought- as commish, i shouldn't have to point this stuff out to someone that is VERY knowledgable about FF. I can pull up your other teams and its clear you know what you're doing. Either you don't care enough to make roster changes and improvements (and i have a real problem with that) OR you are continuing to tank (which seems pretty obvious to me and most everyone else)

Last week Jim proposed a 3 strike rule about tanking, and that a team which does that would forfeit their 1st round pick. I'm incline to vote on that now, and since you've already clearly tanked several times this year, make it a zero tolerance policy with your team for the remainder of the year. From here on out, if you start a single crappy player over an obviously better player on your bench, or don't use the wire to field a starting lineup, you lose your 1st round pick next year.

I'd like everyone in the league to comment on vote on this. And "Team A", its not personal, I actually like you a lot, but i HATE what you're doing in this one league this year."

So what do you guys think? Is the commish handling this in the best way possible? Is there a better way? I think something has to be done, and like hearing from the sharks around here.

 

[heckmanm]

Redraft or keeper/dynasty?

If a redraft, I see no reason to use this year's results to determine next year's draft order.

For my keeper league, we track "potential" points - your best possible lineup each week - and use that to determine waiver/draft order. Probably too late to implement that this year.

ETA - just reread: Dynasty, so nevermind the redraft comment.

 

[Mr. Know-It-All]

I would be very careful about how you word any ruling concerning "starting the best player each week". It is way to subjective. Obviously starting hurt guys is bad form, but who is to judge which player a manager chooses to insert each week? In addition, if you don';t have roster requirements for how many players must be carried at each position, then how can you tell an owner how to manage their team? If the guyis a problem, kick him out of the league - don't manage his roster for him.

 

[Arm Chair Express]

I think something needs to be done, but at this point (after 5 weeks) is it fair for the teams who haven't faced this guy yet to actually have to play against a fielded team when the first 5 teams got a freebie? This should have been bit in the butt right off the bat. I've never had anyone tanking that early before, but we did have the battle of the bye weeks/injured players between 2 guys hoping for the 1st pick a few years ago at the end of the season and we implemented a rule to prevent that. We also put a rule in to make sure teams fielded full lineups each week. Below is the rules we have implemented to take care of the problem. Its sounds harsh, but since we've put it in place we haven't has a problem with tanking.

Edited to add, this is a keep 10 league.

If a player is injured or on bye, you are still responsible for making sure you have a replacement player in your lineup. Failure to do so will result in the player in your lineup that is either injured or on bye to be cut by the Commish (unless you have a replacement player on the bench) and a player will be picked up and inserted into your lineup in the players place. Player picked up will be the best available player at their position. Player cut will not be eligible to be bid on by the team it was cut from during the next free agency period. If player makes it through the free agent bidding process he will then be eligible to be picked up during the first come, first serve period of free agency. Second offense will result in the lose of your third rd pick the following year and every offense after that will result in the lose of draft picks 1 rd earlier until you have no 1st, 2nd or 3rd round picks left.

Once a team is mathematically eliminated from the playoffs it must continue to put in its best line-up (players that you have used throughout the season). Dumping games for better draft picks next year will not be tolerated. If a team is thought to be dumping, the Commish has the right to change your line-up. If your not happy with my line-up decision that will be too bad. Anyone who changes it from what I change it to will have their first pick (not 1st round, but first pick no matter what round it may be in) taken away from them in the upcoming year’s draft.

 

[thayman]

I don't get why you would blow off the season so early. One league I am in had a problem with this years ago, prior to my joining. What they did was add in a qualify rule. A player must do enough on the field for his stats to qualify. For RBs and WRs it's a touch of the ball, one carry, one catch their stats count. QBs it's 5 touches. If a player doesn't qualify then the stats go to the next guy on your bench.

It's a rule that is pretty much never used, but it makes tanking very difficult.

 

[NYGus]

That you must submit a full lineup each week, starting your best players.

How is that determined-especially early in the season? Based on stats? Reputation and name?

In my league's scoring system Berrian and Jennings are in the top 5 WR but in the first few weeks of the season if a team would have started them over Marvin Harrison (currently ranked 22) and Chad Johnson (currently ranked 56) it may have 'looked' like that team was tanking,when in fact the have been far better than Chad and Marv thus far.

Sorry but that rule just seems way to vague.

 

[inca911]

For the current year in which league fees have been paid, it is that owner's team to manage as they see fit. An owner may elect to tank to get a better matchup for their teams in the playoffs. It's their team, they paid for it and get to manage it without any outside influence (barring collusion to help another team without benefit to their own team).

You could opt to implement a "Competition Clause" that allows the league members to vote anonymously on whether to keep the two teams with the worst records. This allows the league to manage the ownership and remove weak owners to improve overall league competition.

 

[Anonymous Internet User]

commish can't create a new rule in mid-season and on top of that modify it to apply against this specific team.

when teams payed their fees, they were in essence agreeing to the terms of the rules of the league AS WRITTEN.

if you want to make changes to those rules, you must do so before next season - not during this one.

why the hell don't you have a rule that you must start a legal lineup each week? define legal as an active player in every lineup spot.

 

[Warhogs]

I am in agreement that this team is not being managed properly.

If the commissioner sent this message out to the whole league, that was a mistake. This message should have been communicated privately to the owner of that team so he/she would have the opportunity to comply with the intent of the league.

If the team did not make any adjustments to try to be competitive then I would agree that this should be taken to a league vote to determine if that owner should be replaced. If the league voted to replace this team then I would replace that team quickly.

Wording on these rules can be tricky. Ultimately, to hold a league together I think you need some of the decisions to be made by the majority of the league. I have issues with how the commissioner addressed this issue but I would not worry about having such a huge documented step by step process to get rid of an owner who is ruining a league. Simply, I would have the commissioner address this with the owner first if there is a history of not trying to play in the spirit of the league. If the owner did not comply then I would move to a league vote and then eplace him if the league thought this was the best idea.

I only play in small stakes league so I think this would be sufficient. Maybe you need a more clearly written rule in a high stakes league?

 

[squidrope]

commish can't create a new rule in mid-season and on top of that modify it to apply against this specific team.

when teams payed their fees, they were in essence agreeing to the terms of the rules of the league AS WRITTEN.

if you want to make changes to those rules, you must do so before next season - not during this one.

why the hell don't you have a rule that you must start a legal lineup each week? define legal as an active player in every lineup spot.

If I wanted to tank with that rule, I'd load my team with bench warmers and start them at the "correct" positions. You can find a way around any rule. The commish is there to prevent things like this from happenning. I think the commish in this case is trying to fix the problem. My problem is why'd he wait so long.

 

[Sigfawn]

Save yourself lots of trouble, and remove any reason to tank.

Why do people tank? For AP? 1st overall pick?

Lets fix that before we come up with 5 pages of tanking rules. What you do is take the people who missed the playoffs. They now have a 3 week, total points, tournament. Whoever ends up 1st, gets the 1st pick.

If you tank, you'll get the 4-6th pick. People won't dump players for draft picks, they'll want to maintain their roster. It solves a ton of problems, and I've seen it popping up in a lot of leagues. And it's really not hard to go. 12 man, 6 make, 6 miss. Keep a running total of points for the 6 that missed, post a message with the standings. It keeps the non-playoff guys active, playing, submitting lineups, watching the WW.

 

[ffgiant]

Save yourself lots of trouble, and remove any reason to tank.Why do people tank? For AP? 1st overall pick?Lets fix that before we come up with 5 pages of tanking rules. What you do is take the people who missed the playoffs. They now have a 3 week, total points, tournament. Whoever ends up 1st, gets the 1st pick.If you tank, you'll get the 4-6th pick. People won't dump players for draft picks, they'll want to maintain their roster. It solves a ton of problems, and I've seen it popping up in a lot of leagues. And it's really not hard to go. 12 man, 6 make, 6 miss. Keep a running total of points for the 6 that missed, post a message with the standings. It keeps the non-playoff guys active, playing, submitting lineups, watching the WW.

I like this idea. The worst overall team automatically got the 1st Rookie pick seems so debatable.

 

[Riffraff]

It sure does suck to see a team intentionally tank a season.

Use a lottery system to remove most of the worries.

If "using the best players each week" is the criteria, then every owner in every one of my leagues is tanking. None of them (us) have a 100% coaching percentage.

 

[Robbie Cooper]

Our 10 team keeper league (must keep 5 players from previous year's roster) is comprised of a very close knit group of friends (most of us have been very close friends since grade school --- more than 30 years). This is our 8th year in this leage. With only one owner ever dropping out of the league.

Three years ago we had a team go into deliberate tank mode with about 4 games to go in the season. He didn't even deny that's what he was doing. But he also clearly stated that there was no rule against tanking. He said he wasn't proud, but that as long as he wasn't breaking a rule, he could live with himself.

At the following year's Owner's Meeting, we voted in the following rule:

Tanking is deliberately trying to lose games in order to improve your position in the following year's draft.

In order to find another guilty of tanking, 8 out of 10 owners must agree that someone is tanking.

1st offense - $25 fine and their team is moved to the #10 draft position.
2nd offense - Removal from the league.Tanking is kinda like pornography: hard to define, but you know it when you see it. We've had no problems since.

 

[Big Cheese]

We actually use the reverse order of the final standings to determine the next year's draft order but....

(it's a 12 team league)

The team that finishes 10th gets the first pick, 11th the 2nd, 12th the 3rd, 9th the 4th, 8th the 5th, etc.

It's not perfect but it keeps teams from completely tanking since if you finish 12th you're getting the 3rd pick, not the first.

On a sidenote, if the guy gives up even before the first week then I'd have no problem booting him from the league. I have no time for idiots who put forth no effort.

 

[pantagrapher]

My league charges teams for losses. You pay $10 per loss. You tank at your own expense.

 

[perry147]

My league charges teams for losses. You pay $10 per loss. You tank at your own expense.

I have something similar in my league.$5 per lowest score of the week.

 

[dslaw]

We have a "Start your best team" rule but I don't see how it can be enforced. If I am out of the playoffs and want to pick higher I can justify sitting LJ vs. a good team and starting Ron Dayne vs. Indy by claiming matchups and I think Dayne will do better.

My league also has limited pickups so drafting 1 TE and taking a 0 during his bye is a valid strategy. This may not be true in yours.

It looks like your guy has gone beyond this by having guys like Vines starting but any rule is tough to enforce when you get into deciding which active players he should be starting every week.

 

[turnit643]

If the guyis a problem, kick him out of the league - don't manage his roster for him.

Yes, get rid of him. Now.

I think something needs to be done, but at this point (after 5 weeks) is it fair for the teams who haven't faced this guy yet to actually have to play against a fielded team when the first 5 teams got a freebie?

It sucks, but it's what is best for the league. You have a guy that is more concerned with finding his way around the rules than competing.

commish can't create a new rule in mid-season and on top of that modify it to apply against this specific team. when teams payed their fees, they were in essence agreeing to the terms of the rules of the league AS WRITTEN. if you want to make changes to those rules, you must do so before next season - not during this one. why the hell don't you have a rule that you must start a legal lineup each week? define legal as an active player in every lineup spot.

I agree, the commish shouldn't just dump a rule into the book in week 6, but the league sure can vote to add a rule now. Do it. What's the worst that happens, the tanker cries and quits? Problem solved either way.As for the legal line-up thing ... let them manage their teams how they see fit, but change the motivation - if tanking is all about draft picks, change how the draft order is determined; or add a weekly high-scorer pot; or make owners pay more for each loss. Make winning the priority.