Taunting “emphasis” is the worst rule change ever: agree or disagree? (1 Viewer)

[Stinkin Ref]

This is like the longest running straw man argument of all time. Maybe you should post 9 more times in defense of something that literally no one is saying. 

my bad...you kept referencing "late" and "close" in your posts...so I may have gotten a little confused...

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

my bad...you kept referencing "late" and "close" in your posts...so I may have gotten a little confused...

yes, because that is when mistakes have a greater impact. Point is to minimize mistakes by reducing the number of interpretations that referees need to make in-game.
 

 

[belljr]

Im sure its been mentioned but can they stop players from celebrating after they made a tackle 35 yards down field but it was a "hard hit",  or the celebration when you are down 24 points on a first down?

Thats the crap that annoys the #### out of me

Ill go yell at some more clouds.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Im sure its been mentioned but can they stop players from celebrating after they made a tackle 35 yards down field but it was a "hard hit",  or the celebration when you are down 24 points on a first down?

Thats the crap that annoys the #### out of me

Ill go yell at some more clouds.

Those definitely annoy me as well. But again, I do not want to be a thief of joy.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

Can someone explain why they want to taunt their opponents in the first place? It doesn't add any points or yards, doesn't add to their paycheck and it doesn't make them better at their job. 

I probably played less sports than many folks here (though I played some). I never saw the benefit of taunting. What's the upside?

 

[Stinkin Ref]

Can someone explain why they want to taunt their opponents in the first place? It doesn't add any points or yards, doesn't add to their paycheck and it doesn't make them better at their job. 

I probably played less sports than many folks here (though I played some). I never saw the benefit of taunting. What's the upside?

it's an attitude thing bro...I gotta let you and everybody else know I punked you on that play....I'm a bad dude, don't mess with me.....plus like the long ball, the chicks dig it....that kind of stuff gets you all kinds of babes.....duh...

 

[renesauz]

I enjoy your presence on the board and enjoy most of your posts but if I'm being completely honest.... I give zero ##### how the NFL effects your kids or grandkids.

Honestly, if the NFL or Hollywood or video game programmers are the deciding factor how your kids(and their kids) turn out then you have lost. You should just open the shoe box and watch the amish channel 'cos the NFL is not for you and your family. The NFL gave a one year ban for a player that drove drunk and KILLED a homeless person. An NFL owner did the same thing Watson did. No punishment. Another NFL player gets his offseason grins and giggles fighting dogs against one another until they die and comes back afterward. A "HOF QB" that just last year took his farewell tour and not many mentioned the rape accusation that most likely magically disappeared when the right number of zeroes found their way at the end of a check. At least the league put its foot down and Rae Carruth never played another down.

The "think of the children" argument just doesn't past muster in most cases. If you are afraid your children are going to turn out like an NFL player believe me taunting is not the thing that should be giving you nightmares. You might want to consider getting them away from NFL football altogether if they are that impressionable. That will leave them more time to surf the internet.

Again, I like you as a poster. I just really don't like that argument. 

OK...how about this.....I don't wanna watch a game where half the players act like doushwaffles and treat each other like garbage after every other play. If I wanted to watch that I'd turn on "pro" wrestling. I don't WANT pro wrestling in football.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Can someone explain why they want to taunt their opponents in the first place? It doesn't add any points or yards, doesn't add to their paycheck and it doesn't make them better at their job. 

I probably played less sports than many folks here (though I played some). I never saw the benefit of taunting. What's the upside?

Like many things, the "taunt" is in the eye of the beholder. 

One man's celebration is another man's taunt. Unfortunately, when it comes to those in authority "cracking down" on [a thing], sometimes that emphasis can come off as heavy-handed. Especially when it's subjective, case by case, and subject to interpretation. 

Celebrations are allowed. When that celebration is in a certain proximity of an opponent, or facing an opponent's sideline, it has now apparently crossed the line to a "taunt", allegedly. Or not. Depends on the ref, depends on the game. It's maddeningly inconsistent, but it's one of those "by god, we really need to DO SOMETHING!" sort of things, so "we'll make a RULE about it! and put EMPHASIS on enforcing that new rule!" 

What's the rule?

"We'll let you know when we see it!"

And THAT is the issue I have with it.  It reeks of revenge for having to allow celebrations again - which, you might recall, the owners also tried to clamp down on once upon a time. 

 

[Stinkin Ref]

Like many things, the "taunt" is in the eye of the beholder. 

One man's celebration is another man's taunt. Unfortunately, when it comes to those in authority "cracking down" on [a thing], sometimes that emphasis can come off as heavy-handed. Especially when it's subjective, case by case, and subject to interpretation. 

Celebrations are allowed. When that celebration is in a certain proximity of an opponent, or facing an opponent's sideline, it has now apparently crossed the line to a "taunt", allegedly. Or not. Depends on the ref, depends on the game. It's maddeningly inconsistent, but it's one of those "by god, we really need to DO SOMETHING!" sort of things, so "we'll make a RULE about it! and put EMPHASIS on enforcing that new rule!" 

What's the rule?

"We'll let you know when we see it!"

And THAT is the issue I have with it.  It reeks of revenge for having to allow celebrations again - which, you might recall, the owners also tried to clamp down on once upon a time. 

again....many blur the lines between celebration vs taunting.....usually taunting is like p0rn....you know it when you see it...

when the CHI player made the play and then did his look at me flying ninja circle kick (which was pretty ####### cool BTW)....that was his own personal celebration....NOT directed at his opponent....fine and dandy....

but then when hopped towards the opponents sideline in an aggressive posturing manner.....that WAS directed at his opponent....and not so fine and dandy....

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

again....many blur the lines between celebration vs taunting.....usually taunting is like p0rn....you know it when you see it...

when the CHI player made the play and then did his look at me flying ninja circle kick (which was pretty ####### cool BTW)....that was his own personal celebration....NOT directed at his opponent....fine and dandy....

but then when hopped towards the opponents sideline in an aggressive posturing manner.....that WAS directed at his opponent....and not so fine and dandy....

I'm not disagreeing with you. My issue is that a ref might just have interpreted that bad## flying ninja circle kick as a "taunt" because the refs were commanded to put emphasis on calling it more often. 

That's the problem. 

 

[Stinkin Ref]

I'm not disagreeing with you. My issue is that a ref might just have interpreted that bad## flying ninja circle kick as a "taunt" because the refs were commanded to put emphasis on calling it more often. 

That's the problem. 

I agree....there could be some gray area, but thats why these refs get paid the big bucks......dude was fine with his ninja kick and if he went to his own sideline after that, we wouldn't be having this conversation.....sack celebrations ala Neil Smith homerun swing etc., are fine...go on with your bad self....but if you in any way involve your opponent or give even the slightest indication that you are involving your opponent....you are taking a chance of drawing a flag....its really that simple....don't involve your opponent in any way and you will probably be ok...

 

[IHEARTFF]

I agree....there could be some gray area, but thats why these refs get paid the big bucks......dude was fine with his ninja kick and if he went to his own sideline after that, we wouldn't be having this conversation.....sack celebrations ala Neil Smith homerun swing etc., are fine...go on with your bad self....but if you in any way involve your opponent or give even the slightest indication that you are involving your opponent....you are taking a chance of drawing a flag....its really that simple....don't involve your opponent in any way and you will probably be ok...

The refs don't get the big bucks, which is part of the problem. How much longer can the NFL justify not having a full time year round professional referee association that is well paid enough to not need anything else?

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

Like many things, the "taunt" is in the eye of the beholder. 

One man's celebration is another man's taunt. Unfortunately, when it comes to those in authority "cracking down" on [a thing], sometimes that emphasis can come off as heavy-handed. Especially when it's subjective, case by case, and subject to interpretation. 

Celebrations are allowed. When that celebration is in a certain proximity of an opponent, or facing an opponent's sideline, it has now apparently crossed the line to a "taunt", allegedly. Or not. Depends on the ref, depends on the game. It's maddeningly inconsistent, but it's one of those "by god, we really need to DO SOMETHING!" sort of things, so "we'll make a RULE about it! and put EMPHASIS on enforcing that new rule!" 

What's the rule?

"We'll let you know when we see it!"

And THAT is the issue I have with it.  It reeks of revenge for having to allow celebrations again - which, you might recall, the owners also tried to clamp down on once upon a time. 

Celebrating is fine, but I don't really understand that, either. Celebrate when you win. A sack in a 3-0 game in the second quarter is nice, but doesn't lead to a win. Be happy, sure. High five your teammates, sure. But a "celebration?" It's like celebrating getting question 4 right of a 50-qestion test. Nice, but you have a ways to go before you can celebrate. 

I know, that's "no fun." It's fine if they do it. But if your celebration is directed toward the other team, then it can be seen as a taunt. Yeah, there's a judgment call there. Baseball has lived with a subjective strike zone forever. The NFL can live with subjective rulings on taunts.  

 

[BoltBacker]

The refs don't get the big bucks, which is part of the problem. How much longer can the NFL justify not having a full time year round professional referee association that is well paid enough to not need anything else?

I'll never understand this either.

There should be a CFB gauntlet just to your foot in the door to be an NFL ref and once you are in you should make big money. As far as I'm concerned the refs in the NFL(as a group) should make much more than the commish. Does anyone honestly think goodell is working 90 hours a week in his basement on the next network television deal? Better officiated games will get better ratings much more than what goodell decides is the proper punishment for smoking a joint.

It's a business that makes 10's of BILLIONS of $ every year, run by a group of guys that own franchises that are worth more than 100 BILLION $'s and they use part-time refs? And how long does it actually take a bad ref to get washed out, anyway? Refs should be making so much money that it's life-changing if they get demoted out of the NFL for too many bad calls.

 

[BoltBacker]

....usually taunting is like p0rn....

Usually taunting is like p0rn..... is like celebrating in the endzone. 

I could easily live without all three, but I am in no way affected by any of them.

Those involved in the theatrics of all three should probably be pretty embarrassed even if they aren't.

And if you really want to enjoy the good stuff, the VR stuff, you absolutely HAVE to be willing to pay for it. Wait a minute, I'm not sure if that applies to all three. What were we talking about again? I got distracted.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

its kind of like it takes two to tango....it takes two to taunt....just don't involve the opposition in any way...

 

[Stinkin Ref]

The refs don't get the big bucks, which is part of the problem. How much longer can the NFL justify not having a full time year round professional referee association that is well paid enough to not need anything else?

the paid the big bucks was tongue in cheek....(although they do get paid pretty well)......about $200 grand a year....which would be enough for me full time....(until I missed too many calls and found myself looking for another job)....they can get up to $50 grand just for working the super bowl...so there is incentive to be very good and not miss much so you can advance into the post season and earn more......its part of why I say, as much as we complain....these guys really are putting in the work and trying to be the best they can....

not having a plan B (another job) for a job you can be fired from at any moment makes the full time gig a little scary.....loosing benefits, whatever...

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

its kind of like it takes two to tango....it takes two to taunt....just don't involve the opposition in any way...

I’m ok with this.

Note the topic title: “emphasis” is the issue here. I think folks are missing that particular tree for the forest. 

If the NFL is pushing for more calls (and they absolutely did, and got the result they wanted with some 60+ more penalty calls) then there may be a point where if the refs don’t call extra penalties they’re fearing for their jobs for failing to place that extra “emphasis” on taunting.

Which means they certainly might *interpret* a jubilant celebration of a sack, TFL, 4th down stop, 1st down reception, etc, etc as “taunting” even if it did only involve 1 player.

That is what I take issue with in this topic. Purely the NFL muscling their part time, under-paid employees into making more calls.

I like officials that call balls & strikes. I don’t like a league telling officials, “call more strikes” for a simple analogy. 

 

[Stinkin Ref]

I’m ok with this.

Note the topic title: “emphasis” is the issue here. I think folks are missing that particular tree for the forest. 

If the NFL is pushing for more calls (and they absolutely did, and got the result they wanted with some 60+ more penalty calls) then there may be a point where if the refs don’t call extra penalties they’re fearing for their jobs for failing to place that extra “emphasis” on taunting.

Which means they certainly might *interpret* a jubilant celebration of a sack, TFL, 4th down stop, 1st down reception, etc, etc as “taunting” even if it did only involve 1 player.

That is what I take issue with in this topic. Purely the NFL muscling their part time, under-paid employees into making more calls.

I like officials that call balls & strikes. I don’t like a league telling officials, “call more strikes” for a simple analogy. 

I would be curious to see how many of the "taunting" flags did not include a member of the other team in the taunt....so not sure that celebrating a first down or whatever else you mention is really being flagged as taunting....

 

[Stinkin Ref]

Celebrating is fine, but I don't really understand that, either. Celebrate when you win. A sack in a 3-0 game in the second quarter is nice, but doesn't lead to a win. Be happy, sure. High five your teammates, sure. But a "celebration?" It's like celebrating getting question 4 right of a 50-qestion test. Nice, but you have a ways to go before you can celebrate. 

I know, that's "no fun." It's fine if they do it. But if your celebration is directed toward the other team, then it can be seen as a taunt. Yeah, there's a judgment call there. Baseball has lived with a subjective strike zone forever. The NFL can live with subjective rulings on taunts.  

lol....off topic....but as I read this it made me think of one of my biggest peeves.....the best basketball players in the world feeling the need to "celebrate" making a stinking free throw by high fiving or dapping up their other 4 teammates every time they make one...(heck sometimes even after they miss)....everybody just stay where you are and let's shoot the next one...