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TE David Njoku, CLE (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
bostonfred
Footballguy
They lured obj but never got a thing from him only to sell low and see him play great in LA, got into a public dispute with the face of their franchise, boxed themselves into a corner where they had to find a new quarterback, gave three firsts a third and two fourths for a quarterback who is likely going to be suspended, paid him more than mahomes and fully guaranteed it even though he will likely miss games this year, and still have the baker contract on the books but have overplayed their hand so badly nobody will give a late round pick for him unless they pay part of the contract, they paid up 20 million a year to lock up a good but never great Amari because they were overhauling their whole receiving corps yet again, and they just spent a ton of money on a tight end who has disappointed since they over drafted him. I figure **** it, while I'm at it, why not just shoot my buddy, take his job, give it to his sworn enemy, hike up gas prices, bomb a village, club a baby seal, hit the hash pipe and join the National Guard? I could be elected President.
rockaction
Footballguy
Your rhetorical flourish, wonderful as always, hides something about the objects of your disapproval.
Sounds like it's primarily how they handled two guys that nobody could handle well. The Giants shipped away OBJ for peanuts and Mayfield is Mayfield.
They were stuck with a mediocre/poor QB and did what they had to rectifying it. Then they "overpaid" Cooper because the market for WRs went haywire, plus OBJ had caused a stink since the beginning and never wanted to be there. He admitted he was crushed when the Giants traded him out of New York.
So their backs were against the wall at two positions you highlight.
They have one of the best OLs and RB rooms in football. Their defense has excellent players. We'll see it this year.
Sounds like this is all about two combustible guys, at two really important positions, actually, and not nearly as dramatic as you make it sound.
Sounds like it's primarily how they handled two guys that nobody could handle well. The Giants shipped away OBJ for peanuts and Mayfield is Mayfield.
They were stuck with a mediocre/poor QB and did what they had to rectifying it. Then they "overpaid" Cooper because the market for WRs went haywire, plus OBJ had caused a stink since the beginning and never wanted to be there. He admitted he was crushed when the Giants traded him out of New York.
So their backs were against the wall at two positions you highlight.
They have one of the best OLs and RB rooms in football. Their defense has excellent players. We'll see it this year.
Sounds like this is all about two combustible guys, at two really important positions, actually, and not nearly as dramatic as you make it sound.
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bostonfred
Footballguy
I think you're underestimating how big a mistake that Watson deal may have been. They're paying him 5 years 240 million which is second only to Rodgers, but after this year's 1 million base, they're paying him more per year than any qb in the NFL.
Forgetting his legal troubles, and the PR issues they'll have to deal with, that's a lot of money.
But they still are on the hook for baker's contract. So they're paying 258 million over the next 5 years at qb.
But they also have up three firsts. Those three firsts represent as much as a hundred million in cap savings over the next 5 years. What i mean is, a first round pick represents cap space in the sense that they get a top player for less money than their expected value. A first round pick at wide receiver represents a savings of 10 to 15 million per year vs a comparable free agent. Not every player will pan out, but when you add in the day two and three picks they gave up, you're probably looking at a couple quality starters.
So they're paying 80 million a year between Watson (46) Amari (20) and Njoku (14), paying Mayfield another 18 million to go away, plus giving up on tens of millions in cap savings via the draft. The cap is barely over 200m so they are going to start having problems keeping guys or replacing the ones who leave without picks.
It's hard to find a young franchise qb so maybe this is all worth it. But they paid about as much as you possibly could for that chance
rockaction
Footballguy
Thanks for the math. That helps put it in perspective. They did pay through the nose for Watson, and teams are a little perturbed at them for doing so, if I'm reading the tea leaves correctly.
That is a ton. They only thing they can hope for is that Watson is all that he is advertised to be. Judging from his play in Houston, he is. But that's still a lot. I think you're right in the end; perhaps the Njoku signing isn't such a great one after all when you look at it that way. He'd better be a focal point of the offense in both blocking and receiving if that's the kind of money they're giving him.
Of course, my first question is "When's the out in the Njoku deal?" Is it really just a one-year or two-year deal that gives the Browns leverage (they have the franchise tag again next year, I assume) and really becomes an option for them to re-up the player after two years depending on his market value? That's what I think we really need to be asking given what you've said.
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rockaction
Footballguy
But your points are taken, for sure. That is a lot for Watson.
daveR
Footballguy
Much of this is public perception. It was a previous FO that traded for OBJ. The organization never got into any public disputes. Their biggest fault was being straight about things and not keeping it under wraps until it was a done deal. That is, privately they told Mayfield's reps that they would be looking into upgrading at QB. They could have been richards and said nothing, but they didn't. IMO, the draft capital compensation is huge and better result in top-5 results for >5 years, but there is also the fact that they are loaded with first round players already, so it might be hard to pay everybody if you add more (yes, this is a bit of a stretch). They still have Baker on the books, but only for 2022 where Watson's contract is minimal. Why pay Cooper? It comes with the trade (a fifth!), and is the going rate. Why overhaul the WRs? As far as I can tell, it was just Landry. OBJ forced his way out last year. Finally, Njoku I don't get. I wouldn't pay top-5 money for JAG.
The Man With No Name
Footballguy
By the time the contract is done, it will be what? Top 15? Salary cap keeps going up and up and up. Players keep making more and more. IF and that's a big if, he starts getting targeted more and getting 800+ yards per season and catching touchdowns, it may not look so bad in 2-3 years.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Sure the contract could turn out to be “good” but how many contracts are doled out purely on speculation/hope that the player may be good, post-rookie contracts?
That wasnt even close to market for a career underachiever like Njoku.
MAC_32
Footballguy
I much prefer this deal than be forced into shopping for whoever among Mike Gesicki, Dalton Schultz, Evan Engram, Robert Tonyan, Hayden Hurst, and OJ Howard does not sign with their current team. This also does not force them into needing to draft a tight end, but it also does not prevent them from doing so. Michael Mayer, Jakeim Bell, Sam LaPorta, Arik Gilbert, etc are all still in play. Should one of them be acquired then Harrison Bryant (probably) walks after '23 and the org re-assess draft pick v Njoku. If one is not acquired then see if Bryant will re-up at a team friendly rate.
I'll be shocked if this deal is looked back as a poor one 2 years from now pretty much regardless of what transpires from this point forward - short of serious injury or an off field incident anyway. Locking him up enhances flexibility without breaking the salary cap. If anything it actually reduces the salary cap burden. The team will now be able to roll over more into '23 when every penny will be necessary to add onto the team.
I'll be shocked if this deal is looked back as a poor one 2 years from now pretty much regardless of what transpires from this point forward - short of serious injury or an off field incident anyway. Locking him up enhances flexibility without breaking the salary cap. If anything it actually reduces the salary cap burden. The team will now be able to roll over more into '23 when every penny will be necessary to add onto the team.
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bostonfred
Footballguy
Kelce just got 4 year 57 million
Njoku 4 years 56
Mahomes 45 million per year
Watson 46 million per year
The Browns are paying more for Watson and njoku than the chiefs are paying for mahomes and kelce.
You can't really do apples to apples comparisons like that because kelce is older, Watson has a looming suspension, mahomes is locked up longer and so on. But it's noteworthy because they are the top of the market.
And maybe that makes sense if this is their win now window. They've got a bunch of good players under relatively cheap contracts like @daveRsaid. But Watson is going to have a suspension in the middle of that window. And over the next couple years all those cheap young guys are going to want to get paid. So they need to capitalize ASAP. Maybe they think the ravens and steelers are on the down swing and they can compete with the Bengals. The AFC is tough but having something to cheer for in November and December besides draft position will be a welcome change.
It's also not fair because Cleveland so badly needed someone to energize their fans and make them an attractive free agent destination. They've spent so many first round picks trying to find that franchise guy and kc got "lucky".
And that's what i think this is really about. They've spent 4 first round picks in the past 15 years on brady quinn, manziel, weeden and Mayfield, so spending three firsts and some day 2/3 picks to get Watson is really just paying a premium to make sure you "hit". And hopefully this makes them a more attractive team for free agents, so they don't have to pay Christian Kirk money like the Jags had to just to get a good player. They paid a steep price for Watson but I get it.
But that means they have to be judicious the next few years. And this Njoku deal was... not judicious. I'm not trying to crap on Cleveland in general, I get what they're trying to do, but they've made a lot of mistakes.
Njoku 4 years 56
Mahomes 45 million per year
Watson 46 million per year
The Browns are paying more for Watson and njoku than the chiefs are paying for mahomes and kelce.
You can't really do apples to apples comparisons like that because kelce is older, Watson has a looming suspension, mahomes is locked up longer and so on. But it's noteworthy because they are the top of the market.
And maybe that makes sense if this is their win now window. They've got a bunch of good players under relatively cheap contracts like @daveRsaid. But Watson is going to have a suspension in the middle of that window. And over the next couple years all those cheap young guys are going to want to get paid. So they need to capitalize ASAP. Maybe they think the ravens and steelers are on the down swing and they can compete with the Bengals. The AFC is tough but having something to cheer for in November and December besides draft position will be a welcome change.
It's also not fair because Cleveland so badly needed someone to energize their fans and make them an attractive free agent destination. They've spent so many first round picks trying to find that franchise guy and kc got "lucky".
And that's what i think this is really about. They've spent 4 first round picks in the past 15 years on brady quinn, manziel, weeden and Mayfield, so spending three firsts and some day 2/3 picks to get Watson is really just paying a premium to make sure you "hit". And hopefully this makes them a more attractive team for free agents, so they don't have to pay Christian Kirk money like the Jags had to just to get a good player. They paid a steep price for Watson but I get it.
But that means they have to be judicious the next few years. And this Njoku deal was... not judicious. I'm not trying to crap on Cleveland in general, I get what they're trying to do, but they've made a lot of mistakes.
Boston
Footballguy
Njoku looks the part, but he has played 5 years in the NFL and has 148 receptions-1754 yards-15 TDS...gotta believe the thinking is that with Watson onboard he will finally go from looking the part to being the part because he has definitely not played up to deserving that contract so far.
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Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
No.
Previous Browns GM John Dorsey, the GM who hired Kitchens as the HC and drafted Baker Mayfield traded for OBJ, not current Browns GM Andrew Berry.
No.
Baker wanted an extension last year, Browns GM Andrew Berry wisely did not pay him over $40 million a year that he wanted.
AB sought a 'legit' franchise QB and got one. Huge savings to move on from Baker, Browns held the most cap of ANY NFL team before Clowney signing.
Young (26) franchise QB in his prime.
No one trades a young franchise QB in their prime. Has never happened in NFL history AFIK. Closest was Jay Cutler years ago and Cutler's stats pale comparatively.
Yep, that is the price.
Deshaun Watson NFL Records
- Highest career completion percentage: 67.8%
- Most passing touchdowns in a single game by a rookie quarterback: 5 (tied with Ray Buivid, Matthew Stafford, Jameis Winston and Daniel Jones)
- Most passing touchdowns in a calendar month by a rookie quarterback: 16
- Most passing touchdowns by a rookie quarterback in one half: 4 (tied with Marcus Mariota and Jameis Winston) (Week 5, 2017)
- the First player in NFL history to pass for 400+ yards, throw 4+ TD passes, and rush for 50+ yards in a single game. (Week 8, 2017)
- First player in NFL history with multiple 5 passing touchdown games within his first 2 seasons: 2
- First player in NFL history to have 4,000+ passing yards, 25+ passing touchdowns, 500+ rushing yards and 5 rushing touchdowns in a single season
- Fastest player in NFL history to have 6,500+ passing yards and 500+ rushing yards (26 games)
- Fastest player in NFL history to have 50 passing touchdowns and 10 rushing touchdowns (27 games)
- First quarterback with back-to-back games with at least 375 passing yards and 35 rushing yards
- Most passing touchdowns by a rookie in a 7-game span in NFL history: 19
- Most passing touchdowns by a rookie in a 5-game span in NFL history: 18
- Longest streak of games with 3 or more passing touchdowns by a rookie in NFL history: 4
- Most games with at least 375 passing yards and 40 rushing yards in NFL history: 3 (tied with Steve Young)
- Most passing touchdowns for a quarterback through his first six career games: 15
- First rookie with two games of 300+ passing yards and 40+ rushing yards in a season
- First rookie to produce 5+ touchdowns in consecutive games
- Most completions with a perfect passer rating: 28
- Most attempts with a perfect passer rating: 33 (tied with Jared Goff)
OBJ AND Landry off the books. Browns traded a 5th round pick and signed Amari BEFORE other WRs got paid so it was a bargain.
All of the top 34 NFL TEs only T.J. Hockenson and Kyle Pitts, both high first-round draftees are younger than Njoku and the only top-fifty paid NFL WRs who are younger were first round picks in the last two years.
Njoku will act as a #2 WR making his contract a bargain.
massraider
Footballguy
Browns have done a masterful job hiding his WR2 talent for half a decade.
He pretty much got same deal as Andrews, who has spent last couple years putting up actual NFL numbers.
This is very much like saying Christian Kirk's deal will make sense, because he's going to accomplish everything he hasn't yet in the NFL.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Andrews had the league MVP as his QB, wasn't splitting time with Hooper, has been healthy whereas Njoku was healthy for two games three years ago when the laughable quotes note his THREE-YEAR stats and make no annotations of his injury year. MASTERFUL!
BTW, Cambell has acted as Lamar's #1 WR.
The Man With No Name
Footballguy
OJ Howard 5 years 1,737 yards 15 TDs Contract: 1 year $3.5 million
David Njoku 5 years 1,754 yards 15 TDs Contract: 4 years, $56.75 million
From Twitter
David Njoku 5 years 1,754 yards 15 TDs Contract: 4 years, $56.75 million
From Twitter
TripItUp
Footballguy
Howard flying way under the radar. He is twice the athlete that Knox is. I'm nabbing him in as many best balls as possible.
rockaction
Footballguy
This is what I was saying to bostonfred at the end of my last response. The Browns save money by doing this vs. applying the franchise tag both years, and they have an out, it seems. He'll never see all that
"Built into this contract is an out for the Browns. After year three, the Browns could potentially cut or trade Njoku. If that happens, Njoku would get $4.586 million.
This is a key to the entire contract.
If Njoku is with the Browns for three years, the Browns end up paying him a total of $34.7 million. That would paid over four years which helps the Browns navigate potential cap issues.
If Njoku is everything the Browns hope he is, he'll stay the fourth season and get the full $54.75 million paid out over five years.
Much has been made of the fact that over four years, Njoku's $54.75 million figure, averaging $13.687 million, would be fifth among tight ends in the NFL. That's true.
However, if he only plays three years of the contract, that average drops him to $11.56 million per year. Not only would that drop him to eighth, below Jonnu Smith and Hunter Henry of the New England Patriots, but it's only $629,000 more than Gesicki and Schultz on the franchise tender, the number many wanted the Browns to keep Njoku on just for this year."
bostonfred
Footballguy
Revisiting this post just two weeks later. It still works, but with the exact opposite meaning
Faust
MVP
Dwain McFarland @DwainMcFarland
David Njoku's route participation and fantasy finishes:
2017 42%, 24th
2018 78%, 9th
2019 9%, 85th
2020 31% 47th
2021 51%, 22nd
2022 preseason: 80%
Great shot at a top-12 finish if that number holds and he comes off the board as TE16.
My primary late-round TE target.
The Frankman
Footballguy
The Frankman
Footballguy
zamboni
Footballguy
Was painful to see after having dropped him after week 1. Thought with all that money they paid him, they'd feature him a lot more.
He's done this before - big weeks surrounded by a bunch of disappearing acts - so the jury is out whether he'll be a more consistent producer.
What is probably a given though is that, with the dearth of viable TEs these days, there is probably going to be a big bidding war for him next week in waivers among leagues in which he is a FA (which is probably a lot).
fightingillini
Footballguy
Yes he has.
If he's on the WW, you need to pick him but temper expectations. But knowing that he can put up weeks like this is valuable to teams that don't have Kelce, Andrews or Waller.
zamboni
Footballguy
Interesting - as I never thought of him as a plus blocker. Thought his value was more for his athleticism as a pass catcher, but apparently they threw him a lot of money also for his blocking acumen.
TwinTurbo
Footballguy
OJ Howard drafted ahead of Njoku too. And OJ Howard still ahead in TDs this season in 1 less game after getting waived and signed to a new team.
TwinTurbo
Footballguy
Yeah that's why Seattle gave Dissley that huge contract. 3 yrs/$24M. Still less than half of what the Browns gave Njoku 4 yrs/$56.75M
And Dissley averages the exact same TD avg per game played as Njoku (.23). Basically both of these guys score a TD every 4.3 games.
metoo
Footballguy
I don't. TE breakout year 6, I'll pass. Njokeu had his game of the year.
I'd rather throw darts at Juwan Johnson and Daniel Bellinger in dynastykeeper.
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We already know Stefanski is an idiot to begin with. Why utilize a receiving talent on a team with little talent at WR.
Njoku has always had the physical talent, he had to mature and get his mental attitude to match.
For some reason he wanted to stay in Cleveland, why I have no idea. If he had taken his game somewhere else
he would be a top receiving TE. He won't be here due to misuse and idiocy by the coaching
Njoku has always had the physical talent, he had to mature and get his mental attitude to match.
For some reason he wanted to stay in Cleveland, why I have no idea. If he had taken his game somewhere else
he would be a top receiving TE. He won't be here due to misuse and idiocy by the coaching
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
With the TE landscape he’s worth a shot even if he turns out to be Fool’s Gold. As some one expecting him to take a jump this season I tend to think this is what we’ve been waiting for, but even with that said Week 3 is very likely his high watermark for the season.
zamboni
Footballguy
He's running a route on 82% of dropbacks - that's pretty elite for TEs.
VikingFrog
Footballguy
I added him everywhere. As a Kmet then Logan Thomas owner who has scored .5 points at the TE position this year, I’m sorry for ruining him this week.
Drake Hater
Footballguy
Brissett was finding him on a regular basis in that Steelers game as those routes are in his wheelhouse. I suspect a solid floor going forward with big games against the right defenses. Falcons and Chargers fit that description. I tried to pick him up but was too late. If you got him I'd start him.
He got 7 targets today, catching 5. He looked good. He also was a big reason the Browns lost
Coughed the ball up at his own 20 for an Atlanta TD.
Hopefully that won't hurt his usage, the other TE's look like hot trash catching the ball.
Will be interested to see snaps played, routes run this week
Coughed the ball up at his own 20 for an Atlanta TD.
Hopefully that won't hurt his usage, the other TE's look like hot trash catching the ball.
Will be interested to see snaps played, routes run this week
