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TE Gunnar Helm, TEN (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
I hope he has great hands since he’s slow and unathletic
BLOCKED_PUNT
Footballguy
he's perfect for special teams
Harjiran
Footballguy
He's perfect for Game of Thrones ...
BLOCKED_PUNT
Footballguy
they are doing a spin off next year so I guess if football doesn't pan out he can audition for a cameo or something
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
TakiToki
Footballguy
Nelson or Gundy at #1?
WRs on the radio talked how Ward throws to a covered Gunnar all the time. Since the second week of camp, Ward probably trusts Gunnar more than anyone.
A reporter today thinks Chig might be replaced in the red zone by Gunnar. He said Chig was actually probably the worst red zone TE this summer. He's not bad. He wasn't bad. Ya throw it up high to Whyle (6-7) and DMR and Gunner are gonna battle. If they don't catch it no one will. Chig was able to use his speed between the twenties and he wonders if they'll have such a thing as goal line or red zone TEs this year
A reporter today thinks Chig might be replaced in the red zone by Gunnar. He said Chig was actually probably the worst red zone TE this summer. He's not bad. He wasn't bad. Ya throw it up high to Whyle (6-7) and DMR and Gunner are gonna battle. If they don't catch it no one will. Chig was able to use his speed between the twenties and he wonders if they'll have such a thing as goal line or red zone TEs this year
rockaction
Footballguy
This guy runs a 4.84 and has a 23rd percentile speed score. He looks like Opie.
Forget that.
Forget that.
Yeah he doesn't play pretty. He's a TE from the 80s or 90s transported to today.
He's got that weird knack for not caring that defenders are draped all over him and somehow catches it. He boxed out great. He's a very willing blocker that even chest bumps after like he's fired up from a block.
We've had a lot of pretty TEs the last decade.
This guy is definitely more Rocky than Apollo. Much like Mark Bavaro was. During one preseason game he was compared to Shockey.
rockaction
Footballguy
Hey Bri, please allow me to kind of push back against your assertions here. I don't think the football comparisons are all that apt. Shockey was one of the best athletes you'll ever see and Bavaro was so good because he was a fierce blocker that had a bunch of athletic juice. This guy doesn't seem to embody that. He's a pass-catching tight end that lacks athleticism. Shockey ran a 4.64 forty-yard dash at the 2002 NFL Combine (per reports) and was considered one of the more athletic tight ends to have ever played college ball. He was a rare athlete. His forty is .2 of a second better in the forty than Helm's time in the same drill, and Shockey did it twenty-three years earlier. I mean, that's like running a sub-4.54 today. Shockey was drafted 14th overall in the 2002 NFL draft. I would submit that Helm isn't in the same realm of talent as either Bavaro or Shockey.
I know you love guys like this and the sort of everyman type of dude, but please allow me to posit that this kid was Division I at Texas. He received significant NIL money. In fact, Texas probably (according to Player Profiler and some other stuff I've pulled out of the ether) has one of the most organized, coordinated money-making and distribution campuses that, in conjunction with Texas legislation, helps to pay their athletes untold riches.
To wit, Arch Manning makes $6.3M this year. And you might have seen his abilities on display this past weekend. Forget being big men on campus, Texas has taken it to the next level—their athletes are big-time ubermensches. Helm was in a couple of documented collectives that are set up to distribute money to athletes and he was benefitting from the largesse that seems to be the norm at Texas. I would posit that he's not quite an underdog and certainly not out of nowhere.
To your Rocky analogy, I'd like to say that Gunnar Helm doesn't strike me as the poor, underdog Rocky to Chig Okonkwo's entitled and complacent Apollo Creed. This is actually more like Gunnar is the Ivan Drago to Chig's long climb up the depth charts while a montage shows Chig lifting wagons full of bricks in the snow. I will say that if we get to substance rather than analogy that Helm's highlights don't look too terrible at first glance and he has a plausible future, but in comparison to the high-end tight ends of the NFL, he is a lesser athlete. I'll say that I'd rather cheer for a guy like Chig any day. I know you've never cared for him, but let's not elevate guys like Helm as some sort of everyman underdog and disparage Chig as "pretty."
And I guess that furthermore, here's what seems to me to be the overwhelmingly real issue with your characterization of Helm and your football comparisons from somebody who grew up a Giants, Jets, and Raiders fan and remembers Bavaro and Shockey clear as a bell in the fall on church grounds.
Bavaro is a legend. He was such a folk hero because he functioned as another lineman and also had wheels and power after the catch. He got roars in the Meadowlands because the Giants were a running team with a fierce defense and when the Giants quarterback Phil Simms would complete his ten-yard or so pass to Bavaro and Bavaro got loose in the open field guys wanted no part of him. He would seek contact and survive it without going down. He was one of the original brick houses.
He was a two-time All-Pro in the pros. He was such a good all-around tight end that one year saw him with over 1,000 yards receiving. And this was 1986 so they barely threw compared to today. The Giants totaled 468 attempts passing that year. The average last year was 556. Only one team last year threw less than the Giants did in '86 (The Eagles). The Giants won the Super Bowl that year and Bavaro's 1,001 regular-season yards led the Giants in receiving by nearly 500 yards. He finished 16th of all players overall. Dude was on another level in the pros.
Bavaro was unreal. People forget that he was a both a high school and collegiate All-American who also ran track. In addition to his raw athleticism, he was so tough that even the league hard-guys marveled at him. The guy went to training camp as a rookie and Parcells quickly loved him. They called him "Rambo" because of his toughness. I could go on and on. I remember him just bowling over guys and the Meadowlands would roar as it took four guys to tackle him. The legend and video of how he once broke his jaw in the middle of a Giants game and went back in and finished it out is staggering.
You wanna see what Bavaro looked like in the open field? This is the play that cemented his legend.
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You know what Gunnar Helm looks like in the open field?
This.
I end it on a light note, but it's a serious one, too. You're comparing this kid to guys that were All-World in their own way. Shockey lacked the pro resume to be a performance legend that matched his potential in the NFL, and Bavaro was hampered by a degenerative knee issue like so many of the old-time greats, and his meteoric career was snuffed too early, but he was Hall of Fame-level talented. He just broke down. Anyway, I write because I want to give the reader context and maybe flesh out the backstory that you've begun to allude to upthread. Peace.
eta* Shockey was also an All-Pro one year (his rookie year) and went to the Pro Bowl four times. He was excellent for a time. He wound up with two Super Bowl rings. Much like Bavaro, injuries ultimately felled him. He was also sort of a U Miami guy who had a rock star/wild child image, and that caught up to him a bit also (in my estimation).
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Birdie048
Footballguy
Love the Rocky comparison @rockaction Solid points too.
Bavaro was a monster of an extra OL. I watched him play in Philly too many times ...
Bavaro was a monster of an extra OL. I watched him play in Philly too many times ...
rockaction
Footballguy
Thank you, but I was just responding to Bri. He not only called this guy "more Rocky than Apollo," he compared him to Shockey and Bavaro. My head nearly spun around like freaking Linda Blair.
I never would compare a pass-catching 4.84 forty guy to Bavaro or Shockey. Nor would I call a guy who was part of the Texas football program in 2024 an underdog in any way, shape, or form.
The '86 and '87 versions of Mark Bavaro were a rarity that I wasn't able to fully appreciate within the context of pro football history when I was thirteen years old. He was something else. The Giants fans adored him. He brought that place to its feet, and he also did a lot of the unheralded stuff. Of course, how much of his fame was attributable to a guy like John Madden I'll never know, but damn if he wasn't a two-time AP All-Pro. Just legendary before the degenerative knee that ruined his career.
nittanylion
Footballguy
@rockaction ... With respect, I think your post above was a little over the top, both in content and tone. jMHO, of course, and you can do with it what you will.
I appreciate your involvement in the Forums, and enjoy reading you, and interacting with you now and again. As a high-level student of the English language myself, I appreciate your ability to communicate the written word, and, generally, the style in which you do it.
When I'm feeling 'ornery' (and I often do), I purposely do a lot of reading, and very little posting, to avoid not coming across as overbearing, or worse, condescending or vociferous...but that's just me.
BTW, I get where you're coming from. In addition to being a Champion of the blue-collar, lunch-pail types, ***maybe*** sometimes to a fault, Bri is an OG with a wealth of experience and practical knowledge, that is a blessing to this Forum, and absent his contributions, the Shark Pool would be a lesser place.
Again, JMHO, there are a core group of OG posters like him, who have spent time in the real world of football journalism, who deserve respect and reverence with we engage in debate and discussion with them.
Sincerely hope all's well in your world.
Now, back to our regularly scheduled programming!
I appreciate your involvement in the Forums, and enjoy reading you, and interacting with you now and again. As a high-level student of the English language myself, I appreciate your ability to communicate the written word, and, generally, the style in which you do it.
When I'm feeling 'ornery' (and I often do), I purposely do a lot of reading, and very little posting, to avoid not coming across as overbearing, or worse, condescending or vociferous...but that's just me.
BTW, I get where you're coming from. In addition to being a Champion of the blue-collar, lunch-pail types, ***maybe*** sometimes to a fault, Bri is an OG with a wealth of experience and practical knowledge, that is a blessing to this Forum, and absent his contributions, the Shark Pool would be a lesser place.
Again, JMHO, there are a core group of OG posters like him, who have spent time in the real world of football journalism, who deserve respect and reverence with we engage in debate and discussion with them.
Sincerely hope all's well in your world.
Now, back to our regularly scheduled programming!
rockaction
Footballguy
Yeah, you know what? I really worked on that to clean it up and have the tone be respectful. I'm not going to edit it and I think you're actually reading it non-charitably. I read Bri's post very charitably and would ask you do the same with mine. I don't think anything is off with the tone. I checked it repeatedly and checked myself.
I think if anything I shouldn't have admitted I was ornery. I can't tell you how to read anything. That's not my job. I personally think it might come off heavy because the argument is fundamentally problematic in so many ways.
Bri is definitely an OG. But I haven't read a thing in two or three years where he's not bashing Okonkwo and essentially saying he doesn't want "it" and that he's essentially soft, just in different words. I don't know. I was answering that, and I thought I was actually pretty nice about it.
I find it odd that this is okay, but somehow a very detailed—and what I thought was respectful and deferent—post isn't.
Does IHEARTFF's comment here sound anything like what I wrote or the tone in my post? I think that is much worse than what I wrote.
Again, I'm not telling you how to read my post or how you indeed read it, but I think you might have confused the substantive part of my argument for the tone and I'd ask you to read what I really wrote again and see if I'm not bending over backwards to show respect for an argument that is fundamentally flawed and is really the culmination of three years of taking shots at Okonkwo.
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rockaction
Footballguy
Actually, I don't think there was anything over-the-top in terms of content. I used only facts. There are few opinion words. There are superlatives, but how else to describe a tight end that was considered a physical marvel and another one that was an All-American in high school, both of whom were All-Pros in the NFL? That means numero uno at the TE position.
I don't know. I think analyzing the comparison honestly might have led to it seeming that way, but I think I'm at pains to remain respectful yet still hold to the argument that I'm making.
I appreciate that you like reading my contributions to the forums. I respectfully submit you've mistaken my intent and read me in a way I didn't intend here.
rockaction
Footballguy
It actually irritates me that this got a "like"
He essentially said a TE played soft and that
I'm not sure how when somebody is saying substantive stuff like this the response (while pretty much bending over backwards to acknowledge that the response might sound bad—because I know when I rebut it's going to sound like I'm being mean because the substantive nature of the claims will provide the reader with a sort of dissonance) would cause somebody to think that the respondent is somehow an out-of-line antagonist. That's almost unbelievable. Read the Okonkwo and training camp threads from the past three years. It's the above quote times two. I don't know what else to say or how to say it.
I don't have a problem in the least with Bri. It's a rebuttal. It's okay to call somebody "pretty" and imply they're not big or tough enough to play football yet somehow a sometimes-apologetic rebuttal that points out the problems with the movie analogy and the football comparisons is a problem?
That sounds fundamentally wrong.
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rockaction
Footballguy
I'll edit this and take anything remotely inflammatory out of it. I can see three things that are well-intentioned and trying to be colloquial but might be coming off wrong. I'm just surprised by the response to this and I think that it's possible the disparity in the substantive arguments makes what seems like tone an issue here. But I'm going to keep editing.
eta* It's edited and stripped of anything that could be read as insulting or out-of-line. It loses its debating thrust, but it says the same thing. I don't know. If that's offensive then we can no longer speak freely.
eta* It's edited and stripped of anything that could be read as insulting or out-of-line. It loses its debating thrust, but it says the same thing. I don't know. If that's offensive then we can no longer speak freely.
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Reply to @rockaction
I'm trying to adjust from working overnight to daytime. I read that when I went to sleep and thought "so this is what it's like when I write a long reply" which I often do.
I didn't call him Shockey some announcer did.
I said he's like outta the 80s 90s and not like the pretty ones and more Bavaro than Apollo. I seemed to have struck a nerve with you like I mentioned your favorite guy.
Bavaro is up there in my mind too. Also grew up in NJ. My dad was a lifelong Giants fan and that whole team was quite dear to him. I have a lot of stories in a book that still hasn't been published and am thinking about going an ebook way. Anywho, I appreciate them too.
I don't like Pitts and I don't like Chig. There's a handful more and I think it started with Jermichael Finley. In my memory, Dallas Clark was different but tough and that's fine. The Jets had someone (forget name) people kept incorrectly saying was like Clark and...maybe it was that guy and not Finley.
(We've also seen some WRs try to convert to TE too.)
The TE is a specific position expected to do certain things in my mind. Good on them being lightning fast and looking all smooth as they race for a TD but what about boxing out and being a target for the QB on what used to be a simple common route for a TE?
On gamepass or plus or whatever it's called, when I can go look....I'm just flat out irritated with Chig. Like now I can re-watch it and I literally don't know what he's doing. I remember one play where Levis or Rudolph was looking middle and his back is to them and he's like walking slow or idk...like I just yell "what is that" at my screen.
www.pro-football-reference.com
Chig had two good games late. All season I have people tell me how good he is or how talented he is.
Why? Was it the two catches for 8 yards that caught your eye? The three catches for 6 yards?
Please look. His stats are awful. Not debatable not close just awful.
I remember specifically texting a very well respected FF person who said he loved Chig after his 2 for 14 game.
What does that? Guy is sharp, knows FF, all wonderful things. There's never been another player on earth to get 2 for 14, catch less than half the passes, and said he had a good game.
When Mariota turned bad, I had a lot of people point out to me how I was way wrong so I get it.
I'm aggravated and ready to go to fourth grade and say my grandma can catch one pass for six yards like Chig did. He's some golden boy in a lot of people's minds (that I respect) and can do no wrong.
I don't much do the "look how he was in college" replies for rookies. There are always some that play a bit different as a pro and it's usually on awful teams like my Titans. I figure there's a lot involved and maybe it's the threat of their career being over but I very much fall for the UDFA types.
DMR literally ripped the ball away from a DB while someone said he didn't have good my ball skills in college.
Oliver can't get open deep did you see his 40 time? Yeah well the Titans have a very good secondary and he's done it every day for months now.
I remember Gunnar being a good blocker and a not good blocker in draft writeups. If he gets his edge to move a few feet and the RB scoots by, I'm very happy. I saw him whiff and dive at a DEs feet. Umm not good but ..idk work on that.
He's not a finished product at all but the effort is there in a big way. I can root for effort and hustle. When Chig gets beat on a block and stands there looking back- he looks like a dufus. I wish I could slap his helmet and say wake up. Do something! I'll take the dive at feet on whiffs for now.
We're not the worst team and playing well as some fools say. I gotta root for weird things. I've seen a lot of bad QB play and the Titans affinity for drafting guys with my ball skills is resonating with me now. A far cry from Burrow to Chase but when you've had Treylon Burks and Robert Woods as supposed key cogs, Bryce Oliver ripping a football away like some kindergartner tried to steal his cookies looks pretty great.
Gunnar and DMR are full tilt effort yes coach guys and they're the perfect pressure to be applied to Chig. Do it right or you'll be pulled and they will. We had some fast pretty looking boys on defense that are gone now. Why does it matter if he has 4.5 speed if he doesn't make a play? So anyway they're gone and time for Chig to do what he's been taught for four years. What is that, 52 yards combined over the first five weeks last year? Good luck with that keeping the starting spot this year.
We need this. The defense was second in the league in points allowed because they got rid of pretty boys that don't produce. It's left over from Vrabel.
Did you see him talk about their WR corps? I used to want to vomit when people said ours was good before a Bengals or Vikings matchup. Bourne is not good. Diggs should be doing Ben gay commercials and who misunderstood McDaniel and added 42 slot WRs by accident? How does that happen? They need Boutte to pan out. We need Oliver. Both need a rookie to pan out as an outside WR and then next year both need an elite WR pushing the whole group. Vrabel didn't want AJB in trade but he sure kept him and told us he was talented every week. He should take him as punishment. The WR corps are not that different and neither is the shmoozing. I'm sick of it, but for now I gotta root for guys that rip the ball away.
I'm trying to adjust from working overnight to daytime. I read that when I went to sleep and thought "so this is what it's like when I write a long reply" which I often do.
I didn't call him Shockey some announcer did.
I said he's like outta the 80s 90s and not like the pretty ones and more Bavaro than Apollo. I seemed to have struck a nerve with you like I mentioned your favorite guy.
Bavaro is up there in my mind too. Also grew up in NJ. My dad was a lifelong Giants fan and that whole team was quite dear to him. I have a lot of stories in a book that still hasn't been published and am thinking about going an ebook way. Anywho, I appreciate them too.
I don't like Pitts and I don't like Chig. There's a handful more and I think it started with Jermichael Finley. In my memory, Dallas Clark was different but tough and that's fine. The Jets had someone (forget name) people kept incorrectly saying was like Clark and...maybe it was that guy and not Finley.
(We've also seen some WRs try to convert to TE too.)
The TE is a specific position expected to do certain things in my mind. Good on them being lightning fast and looking all smooth as they race for a TD but what about boxing out and being a target for the QB on what used to be a simple common route for a TE?
On gamepass or plus or whatever it's called, when I can go look....I'm just flat out irritated with Chig. Like now I can re-watch it and I literally don't know what he's doing. I remember one play where Levis or Rudolph was looking middle and his back is to them and he's like walking slow or idk...like I just yell "what is that" at my screen.
Chigoziem Okonkwo Career Game Log | Pro-Football-Reference.com
Get Chigoziem Okonkwo Career game log for regular season and playoff games on Pro-football-reference.com.
www.pro-football-reference.com
Chig had two good games late. All season I have people tell me how good he is or how talented he is.
Why? Was it the two catches for 8 yards that caught your eye? The three catches for 6 yards?
Please look. His stats are awful. Not debatable not close just awful.
I remember specifically texting a very well respected FF person who said he loved Chig after his 2 for 14 game.
What does that? Guy is sharp, knows FF, all wonderful things. There's never been another player on earth to get 2 for 14, catch less than half the passes, and said he had a good game.
When Mariota turned bad, I had a lot of people point out to me how I was way wrong so I get it.
I'm aggravated and ready to go to fourth grade and say my grandma can catch one pass for six yards like Chig did. He's some golden boy in a lot of people's minds (that I respect) and can do no wrong.
I don't much do the "look how he was in college" replies for rookies. There are always some that play a bit different as a pro and it's usually on awful teams like my Titans. I figure there's a lot involved and maybe it's the threat of their career being over but I very much fall for the UDFA types.
DMR literally ripped the ball away from a DB while someone said he didn't have good my ball skills in college.
Oliver can't get open deep did you see his 40 time? Yeah well the Titans have a very good secondary and he's done it every day for months now.
I remember Gunnar being a good blocker and a not good blocker in draft writeups. If he gets his edge to move a few feet and the RB scoots by, I'm very happy. I saw him whiff and dive at a DEs feet. Umm not good but ..idk work on that.
He's not a finished product at all but the effort is there in a big way. I can root for effort and hustle. When Chig gets beat on a block and stands there looking back- he looks like a dufus. I wish I could slap his helmet and say wake up. Do something! I'll take the dive at feet on whiffs for now.
We're not the worst team and playing well as some fools say. I gotta root for weird things. I've seen a lot of bad QB play and the Titans affinity for drafting guys with my ball skills is resonating with me now. A far cry from Burrow to Chase but when you've had Treylon Burks and Robert Woods as supposed key cogs, Bryce Oliver ripping a football away like some kindergartner tried to steal his cookies looks pretty great.
Gunnar and DMR are full tilt effort yes coach guys and they're the perfect pressure to be applied to Chig. Do it right or you'll be pulled and they will. We had some fast pretty looking boys on defense that are gone now. Why does it matter if he has 4.5 speed if he doesn't make a play? So anyway they're gone and time for Chig to do what he's been taught for four years. What is that, 52 yards combined over the first five weeks last year? Good luck with that keeping the starting spot this year.
We need this. The defense was second in the league in points allowed because they got rid of pretty boys that don't produce. It's left over from Vrabel.
Did you see him talk about their WR corps? I used to want to vomit when people said ours was good before a Bengals or Vikings matchup. Bourne is not good. Diggs should be doing Ben gay commercials and who misunderstood McDaniel and added 42 slot WRs by accident? How does that happen? They need Boutte to pan out. We need Oliver. Both need a rookie to pan out as an outside WR and then next year both need an elite WR pushing the whole group. Vrabel didn't want AJB in trade but he sure kept him and told us he was talented every week. He should take him as punishment. The WR corps are not that different and neither is the shmoozing. I'm sick of it, but for now I gotta root for guys that rip the ball away.
rockaction
Footballguy
Thanks for the response, Bri. I actually don't have a problem with you disliking Chig and I should say it right away. I also don't have a problem with how you describe him. I was confused that given the tone and tenor of your analysis that people thought I was rude or over the top in my disagreement. I thought it was in keeping, but what do I know?
I also want TEs who can block. Either that or you construct a good line and get a heck of an athlete that you can line up in the slot or at least not inline so that they can play receiver. I don't care for Pitts, either.
Actually, here's the thing. I don't really care about TE for fantasy purposes. I've never done anything but punt TE. Their deployment is uncertain from coach to coach. I mean, Pitts was the exact reason I don't. He was drafted by a GM who obviously wasn't on the same page as the coach in the same organization. If the NFL is a league where two of the most important decision makers can't hash that out before the draft about a top-ten pick with all that entails, then I have no confidence that it's anything but serendipity when you get a coach who has a gameplan in tune with the skill set of his starting TE. I mean, that's a pretty shaky advertisement to invest in a TE with any fantasy draft capital.
So I have no real dog in the fight about Chig or the guys who don't block a ton but catch a lot of passes. They don't bother me either way. I love the big guys who can fly and catch and block. That's more like it to me. It's probably no accident the TEs on my dynasty team are the all-around talents of Dallas Goedert and Jonnu Smith. Those are hardly sexy fantasy players (they've been good for me over the years) but that's sort of who I gravitate to. Great athletes, blockers, and good receivers of the football.
Anyway, I just wanted to respond because where you see effort from Gunnar and him pushing Chig to be a more complete tight end; I see Gunnar's limitations. But like I said, his highlights weren't terrible. We shall see.
I also want TEs who can block. Either that or you construct a good line and get a heck of an athlete that you can line up in the slot or at least not inline so that they can play receiver. I don't care for Pitts, either.
Actually, here's the thing. I don't really care about TE for fantasy purposes. I've never done anything but punt TE. Their deployment is uncertain from coach to coach. I mean, Pitts was the exact reason I don't. He was drafted by a GM who obviously wasn't on the same page as the coach in the same organization. If the NFL is a league where two of the most important decision makers can't hash that out before the draft about a top-ten pick with all that entails, then I have no confidence that it's anything but serendipity when you get a coach who has a gameplan in tune with the skill set of his starting TE. I mean, that's a pretty shaky advertisement to invest in a TE with any fantasy draft capital.
So I have no real dog in the fight about Chig or the guys who don't block a ton but catch a lot of passes. They don't bother me either way. I love the big guys who can fly and catch and block. That's more like it to me. It's probably no accident the TEs on my dynasty team are the all-around talents of Dallas Goedert and Jonnu Smith. Those are hardly sexy fantasy players (they've been good for me over the years) but that's sort of who I gravitate to. Great athletes, blockers, and good receivers of the football.
Anyway, I just wanted to respond because where you see effort from Gunnar and him pushing Chig to be a more complete tight end; I see Gunnar's limitations. But like I said, his highlights weren't terrible. We shall see.
rockaction
Footballguy
I just want readers to know that Jacob's Ladder liked nittanylion's post and couldn't have possibly read the text or what I had originally written and that he's doing that not because he agrees with substance of what nittanylion said, but because . . . well, I won't speculate. But the only guy that agreed with nittany before I had changed it all (and it wasn't even bad) was King Of The Jungle.
I still don't think it was in any way caustic, offensive, or not in keeping with the OP.
I still don't think it was in any way caustic, offensive, or not in keeping with the OP.
hankmurphy
Footballguy
At least we won’t have to wait much longer to see if Gunnar can match Chig’s career-high 3 TD season.
