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TE Pat Freiermuth, PIT
- Thread starter IHEARTFF
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steelcityman
Footballguy
Doesnt take a genius to figure out, if your WR2 and beyond arent great or proven options, that the TE should come into play more. Freiermuth is always hurt tho. So with more opps comes more chances to get injured. And he has had concussions in prior years. Dude should be 70 for over 600+ and 5-8 TDs, but as a lifelong steeler fan, i have learned recently to never make predictions or plans for their team, esp on offense. Friermuth is a FA after this year, so if he doesnt sign an extension before start of season, I would expect more Washington at some point in the season.
5-ish Finkle
Footballguy
Artie loves using his TEs. All of them. 
Terrible qb play likely, antiquated O scheme, poor OL? Yeah, Pat's a hard "avoid" for me.
Terrible qb play likely, antiquated O scheme, poor OL? Yeah, Pat's a hard "avoid" for me.
VikingFrog
Footballguy
Maybe we can nickname him “Pitts” Freiermuth if he underperforms.Artie loves using his TEs. All of them.
Terrible qb play likely, antiquated O scheme, poor OL? Yeah, Pat's a hard "avoid" for me.
steelcityman
Footballguy
Ends up being 5 years a notch under $50M. Includes this year. I just wonder will they realize he is on the field now that he is getting paid? The Steelers havent used the middle of the field since Ben was QB.
Russell Wilson's near complete avoidance of the middle predates that by several years.
steelcityman
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
That would seem to be an awful, limiting strategy. You need all the space on the field as an offense. Take away part of it and you’ve done a defense a huge favor. You don’t make them cover it as assiduously. Windows are tight enough in pro football. Making them tighter? Uh uh.
Insein
Footballguy
Good news is he was top 10 in targets for TEs yesterday. Bad news is it was only 4 targets. This is why I don't waste high picks on TEs.
However, they did pay him a lot of money and more should open up as teams shift coverage to Pickens. They can't win every game with 6 FGs. Eventually they'll have to try to go over the middle and Muth will be there waiting.
However, they did pay him a lot of money and more should open up as teams shift coverage to Pickens. They can't win every game with 6 FGs. Eventually they'll have to try to go over the middle and Muth will be there waiting.
the spanker
Footballguy
ppr Hill or Muth man?
Insein
Footballguy
Hill definitely has higher chance of a TD but also the lower floor of absolute zero certain weeks based on the coach or the defense.
VikingFrog
Footballguy
Ranked pretty highly this week and my Goedert on a bye and Hockenson still in IR slot. Seems his floor of 4-5 points in PPR is as good as any. (As sad as that is to say)
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
Any thoughts on this guy getting more looks with Rodgers behind the wheel?
Not sure I'll be biting on any Steelers TE for ff.
Aaron Rodgers had a couple of tight ends who likely cracked the top 10 in fantasy football during his time with Green Bay. Jermichael Finley had a strong 2011 season (767 yards, 8 TDs), and Robert Tonyan exploded in 2020 with 11 touchdowns. Tonyan never had another year quite like that one TD wise. Jared Cook and Jimmy Graham had solid years too, but their rankings varied.
Aaron Rodgers had a couple of tight ends who likely cracked the top 10 in fantasy football during his time with Green Bay. Jermichael Finley had a strong 2011 season (767 yards, 8 TDs), and Robert Tonyan exploded in 2020 with 11 touchdowns. Tonyan never had another year quite like that one TD wise. Jared Cook and Jimmy Graham had solid years too, but their rankings varied.
Status quo
BLOCKED_PUNT
Footballguy
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
If the offense improves I could see him setting career highs in TDs.
Of note, those Finley and Tonyan seasons, were both years where Rodgers was the NFL MVP. Personally, I see no reason to assume Rodgers is an upgrade from Wilson.
If Freiermuth stays at TE19, he'll probably not be on a single roster of mine.
I'm the opposite. Literally who else is he going to throw to?
I kinda think that's not the way to look at it. I get the idea. Metcalf is the only clear guy ahead of him, but I just don't think Freiermuth is necessarily good enough to not just be another guy in that pass game. I think guys like Roman Wilson and even Darnell Washington are threats. Jaylen Warren will be heavily involved too. I just don't see any upside to Muth. I feel like his best case is like TE14, so even if he exceeds expectations, is that even that valuable? I think something like 65-650-3 is closer to his upside than his floor. Are we confident Rodgers tops 4000 yards or 20 TD's?
4k yards, not confident. 20 TDs, very confident. I get that there will be a spread it around to all those guys. I think Pat will be heavily involved. I do agree he doesn't really have top 5 TE upside. But TE19 feels very close to his floor.
Big Nate
Footballguy
Unfortunately yes. Arthur Smith loves Jonnu.
Man I feel for The Muth. I have a big soft spot for him and he's going to be in tough this year.
I will probably put feelers out mid-season to pick up Muth on cheap in hopes he can get out from PIT at some point. If Arthur Smith wasn't the coach then maybe Muth has a big role but now it won't be good as he will be sharing time and snaps.
Big Nate
Footballguy
Injuries/concussions and not great QB play has not helped. I would love to see a change of scenery for him. Maybe he won't hit top 5TE but he has the potential to be a lot more, especially with his knack to score in the red zone. He's had 7 TDs in multiple years and I feel there is still meat on the bone....
They gave him a big raise for this year, $12M I think. No extension. Probably in no such rush to extend him or was part of their plan. He's very specific for Arthur and he's year to year, obviously wants back as a head coach. I think they are willing to let him go and get comp pick.
Off top of my head, the Vikings are pretty close to paying two TE's $10myr. Josh Oliver is just a tad under it with Hock coming in at $16.5, they got a tad over $25M a year into the position.
The Saints would be one if you are counting Taysom as a TE but I don't.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
I know it's been awhile, but how much did Gronk and Hernandez make early in their career?
AH never made over 10M a year. His last contract was 5/40 and RG was 6/54.
Thanks, good info here. I think Oliver is 3/24 so 8/year but that's still a lot more than I thought, jeez.
I really don't think they are even the smallest bit interested in trading him and I don't think his role will change that much either.
That's right on Oilver, was looking at this cap number which is hovering a hair under $10m but that's not his APY.
I bet inflation adjusted those are well over 10mm each
I agree here. I actually wonder what Jonnu's role will be. Steelers gonna be running a 2-TE base?
ETA: I'd be calling the Steelers about Darnell Washington right now.
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Big Nate
Footballguy
Smith has run 2 TEs before but it isn't ideal for either Jonnu or Muth.
I don't think they are interested in trading Washington either and have heard he's had a great off-season.
I think two TE sets and using Jonnu like a chess piece is their major plan for this season.
Washington as that #3TE for a team that uses them so much makes him valuable to them and not sure Jonnu is part of the future.
I don't think it's a bold prediction to say the Steelers will lead the league in 13 personnel next season. It's like I said last year in this thread. Good news for Friermuth is Arthur likes throwing to his TE's, bad news is he likes to throw to all of them.
Not get away from Friermuth but I'm very interested in whoever the Dolphins might add at TE as I think McDaniel made Jonnu a fantasy asset, thought not any TE can simply replicate what he mean to the Dolphins offense. On that note Muth and Jonnu are not very similar at all, which is why I don't think Jonnu impacts his role much if at all.
Arthur made his mark running a three TE system in TEN.
Younger Jonnu played RB, FB, H-back, blocking TE, receiving TE, slot, out wide, and ST. This is not to say he played many positions. For that I'd say TE only.
The reason he was so useful was because he is fast enough and athletic enough to mimic those spots. As such, Arthur moved him around- often presnap- to get a matchup he can win. It wasn't always Jonnu getting the matchup but him "out of position" created a trickle down effect which gave someone else a bad matchup.
Arthur loves to run and he does very well with eight in the box on D. Whether Henry or Bijan, it doesn't phase him like other teams.
The nickel is the base D in the league not 3-4 or 4-3 right? Is the defense using big LBs or smaller faster in this eight?
Jonnu was once phenomenal at down field blocking using a technique called a punch that high school parents don't like for the term but whatever he was awesome at it.
So anyway back to eight, if Arthur can get Jonnu in the slot (and a big WR next to him), run the RB wide, and Jonnu has to pickup a nickel CB to block, he's winning. Now the back is running down field with a big WR and Jonnu as his blockers and ...good luck to the defense then.
Like any big gain play, this isn't done all the time but sporadically and the threat of it is what does the most.
The defenses really seemed to question who they put as an edge of OLB in their eight.
For years, the Titans averaged an enormous nearly 8ypc running around the corner. One year right, but predominantly around LT Lewan. This means some blocking TE and Lewan were the force that freed up Henry, not Jonnu but he's still on the right and still moving forcing the D to question matchups. The same was employed in Atlanta and also to similar success.
From here, he's simply playing matchups. He's had a slew of very questionable QBs and made it work. Best was veteran Tannehill largely because of him seeing things too. They were in sync. Surely he wants a lot of Kaleb to force eight in the box and do the same and then Rodgers to be the veteran that sees what he sees.
QBs think they know every matchup presnap but may have some doubts and may have to see this guy or that guy react. Jonnu being shifted will often give them an answer- oh he's doing that, ok. So Jonnu isn't that exciting for FF as is it's more him setting the table for others.
In Atlanta and Miami, sometimes the QB had some serious issues and we could sit and watch and see the QB struggling. It's sort of widely assumed the coach said well just dump it to Jonnu then. FF people were thrilled w Jonnu getting this uptick but those teams fans were not. They wanted the WRs more involved and ...it's just frustrating when a QB struggles and you've got great athletes not being utilized at WR. Pitts simply wasn't doing TE things and other discussion other time.
Belichick failed to instill Arthur's Gibbs variation offense. Kind of ignore those years.
Jonnu is older. Everyone traded is. He got more work and more running than usual TEs do. There's not necessarily a trade to follow. They may be planning on only using Jonnu to do X while Friermuth does Y.
Don't forget Gibbs loved to run when the D knew what was coming. Often attributed to Parcells but Gibbs did it too and we all knew Timmy Smith was running exactly where he did and he had a great Superbowl anyway. Those Hogs ate a lot of days. Arthur has absolutely taken that from his mentor. You knew when Bijan and Henry were getting it sometimes.
Darnell Washington is big and bad and there's no doubt he's going to spearhead some runs too. If the tackle looking TE improves his blocking at all, it'll be like a jumbo package on the field. Warren and Kaleb are definitely going to run behind "two tackles" and test this out.
Rodgers will have off days and the defense will clearly have an advantage other times, but for the most part Jonnu should not have to be the struggling QB dump off guy in Pittsburgh. His FF value would increase if Mason or the rookie start at QB but I'd really pause on his FF value when Rodgers is.
Just said on radio and maybe provides some context- he may put Washington or Friermuth at FB for a single play and Jonnu isn't even on the field.
This is what adheres him to Tomlin.
First off it's only a little odd, it's not super wacky weird shifts or out of position stuff.
The conviction of Arthur to win a snap is so evident that it's got a little extra juice. Not to say OL aren't always motivated or backs aren't or any of that. If you put a big fella as a FB for a play or an extra tackle, you're firing up the guys saying we're gonna win this one. It's very coachable.
Defensively- the league got faster and smaller at LB and they won't know to sub because a TE is playing FB instead of inline. This evolution was not made for "we're coming right at you" but for other reasons.
The goal is coaching and morale as much as a short run for a first. It doesn't have to be Jonnu to do that. Tomlin is a rockstar of a motivator for football and this stuff is like throwing him a lobbed pitch every now and then.
This is what adheres him to Tomlin.
First off it's only a little odd, it's not super wacky weird shifts or out of position stuff.
The conviction of Arthur to win a snap is so evident that it's got a little extra juice. Not to say OL aren't always motivated or backs aren't or any of that. If you put a big fella as a FB for a play or an extra tackle, you're firing up the guys saying we're gonna win this one. It's very coachable.
Defensively- the league got faster and smaller at LB and they won't know to sub because a TE is playing FB instead of inline. This evolution was not made for "we're coming right at you" but for other reasons.
The goal is coaching and morale as much as a short run for a first. It doesn't have to be Jonnu to do that. Tomlin is a rockstar of a motivator for football and this stuff is like throwing him a lobbed pitch every now and then.
I think they are both ok blockers myself, don't view it was a weakness for either, but either way that won't deter Arthur. Pitts is about as bad a blocking TE that exists in the league and when he had him and Jonnu he led the league in 2 TE sets.
Big Nate
Footballguy
My worry is Washington is on the field for blocking and then just one of Muth or Jonnu running routes. Both are decent 2nd blockers if needed but this sucks overall for Muth.