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Team Defense (1 Viewer)

Daywalker

Footballguy
PPR thread got me thinking why does my league have such a mundane regard for Team Defense. I guess it's not as bad as PK's but it's still a very boring position.

Have no interest in IDP.

Just wondering if anyone has experience with a scoring system that could potentially lead you to draft a Team Defense in round 1? And what the pro's/con's and consequences will be.

Just think defenses are predictable enough that they shouldn't be afterthoughts in my league as kickers are.

 
Anyone seen a setup where for you don't draft Team Defense but select one each week throughout the year? With the caveat being you can only chose each defense once.

Would make for some interesting decisions. Maybe even amp up the scoring for defenses to a whole new level. Instead of drafting a defense and hoping for the best you really have to strategize and manage your defense throughout the season.

Guess I could see a problem being if so many owners select the same defenses early on it kind of voids the position. Solution would be some form of WW process where let's say week 1 the person who got the last draft spot gets waiver priority and so on. After week 1 it goes by record.

IDP is never going to happen in my league and I doubt it ever catches on among 99% of leagues

But it's nuts that Team Defense is such a boring and insignificant part of the game.

Having a WW process where you select the 12 teams you want a crack at that are available to you is something I think a large % of leagues would get on board for. Plus gives us something to think about during the week.

As the season progresses and we get a better fix on the defenses it opens up a lot more strategy where an owner can have more impact on their teams performance. Which is always a good thing in my book. Ten years from now I'd be shocked if Team Defense is as much of an afterthought as PK's, as it is today, in the vast majority of leagues.

 
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PPR thread got me thinking why does my league have such a mundane regard for Team Defense. I guess it's not as bad as PK's but it's still a very boring position.

Have no interest in IDP.

Just wondering if anyone has experience with a scoring system that could potentially lead you to draft a Team Defense in round 1? And what the pro's/con's and consequences will be.

Just think defenses are predictable enough that they shouldn't be afterthoughts in my league as kickers are.
Defending Reality
 
We went crazy on our defense and basically have the 1 pt per sack, 2 for TO scoring, but for points against we decrement. So for every 1 pt against you lose a pt. Pretty harsh but it makes the defenses unique. So we have in our rules you are required to start a defense and the defense cannot be on bye. Failure to start a defense results in net score of 0.

Your defenses will score negative points throughout the year, the key is to minimize. So as an owner you have to look at matchups and plan accordingly. The worst case scenario is where a team like STL gets lit up for 42 pts... you just lost 42 pts against your fantasy team. Crazy, but it has really made the scoring unique and the draft even crazier. Once the defenses start going (3rd round or so) folks scramble like mad to lock two up.

This is why the article on defense by committee is so interesting to me from this site. Great stuff!

 
very simple ... if you want people to CARE about defense and not just relegate them to last round picks along with kickers ...

DEF scoring --> X points given up = (-X) points scored for your fantasy team ... and 6pts for TD returns ... THAT'S IT ... no more points for anything else

i mean that IS what the defenses goal is in a game

Pittsburgh/Green Bay will go in about 5th or 6th round ... there will be some "sharks" who will still try to get by with the waiverwire defense method (they will try that one more year then be convinced)

adds alot more strategy to drafts

 
PPR thread got me thinking why does my league have such a mundane regard for Team Defense. I guess it's not as bad as PK's but it's still a very boring position.

Have no interest in IDP.

Just wondering if anyone has experience with a scoring system that could potentially lead you to draft a Team Defense in round 1? And what the pro's/con's and consequences will be.

Just think defenses are predictable enough that they shouldn't be afterthoughts in my league as kickers are.
Defending Reality
Great article.New Team Defense Score = Turnovers (INTs + Fumbles + 4th Down Stops) x 2 + Forced Punts

So basically:

INT= 2

Fumble= 2

4th Down stop= 2

Forced punt= 1

TD= 6

Safety= 2

Correct?

 
Tie that scoring model with my gimmick for chosing defenses weekly and I'd be competely satisfied. More strategy and entertainment from the defensive position without going IDP.

Picking defenses as I described is the same as those suicide pools that are also very popular. Where you pick a winning team each week. Can't use same team twice. Something many of my leaguemates are familiar with.

If the software was/is available on a popular site I could imagine my fairly typical league (competitive but not sharky) being intrigued.

 
not as drastic as some here, but we start off with a set amount of points for points allowed, passing allowed, rushing allowed and for every yard and every point given up you lose from there.

we also give credit to the normal int, sack, etc.

scoring below.

makes some of the top d/st worth getting fast.

Punt Return Yards -50-999 .04 point for every 1

Opponent Punt Return Yards -50-999 -.04 point for every 1

Kickoff Return Yards -50-999 .04 point for every 1

Opponent Kickoff Return Yards -50-999 -.04 point for every 1

Fumbles Lost on Special Teams 0-10 -1 point each

Fumbles Lost on Defense 0-10 -1 point each

Fumble Recoveries (from Opponent) 0-10 1 point each

Interceptions Caught 0-10 2 points each

Interception Return Yards -50-999 .04 point for every 1

Blocked Field Goals 0-10 1 point each

Blocked Punts 0-10 1 point each

Blocked Extra Points 0-10 1 point each

Sacked a QB 0-25 1 point each

Safeties 0-10 2 points each

Offensive Points Against 0-999 10

Offensive Points Against 1-999 -.40 point for every 1

Total Net Yards Passing Allowed -50-999 12

Total Net Yards Passing Allowed 1-999 -.04 point for every 1

Total Net Yards Rushing Allowed -50-999 12

Total Net Yards Rushing Allowed 1-999 -.10 point for every 1

Number of Special Teams TDs Allowed 0-99 -6 point for every 1

Number of Defensive & Special Teams TDs 0-10 6 points each

 
In my league each def starts the game with 18 pts and then they lose .02pts for each yard allowed and .4 pts for every point scored. we award fairly normal pts for sacks and such. Def can score a lot of pts in this format, but is still more about match ups than def teams. An earlier post mentioned that they award pts for forcing teams to punt. that seems like a great rule to me.

 
'Daywalker said:
Tie that scoring model with my gimmick for chosing defenses weekly and I'd be competely satisfied. More strategy and entertainment from the defensive position without going IDP.Picking defenses as I described is the same as those suicide pools that are also very popular. Where you pick a winning team each week. Can't use same team twice. Something many of my leaguemates are familiar with.If the software was/is available on a popular site I could imagine my fairly typical league (competitive but not sharky) being intrigued.
Nice twist to it.
 
'Daywalker said:
'Jeff Pasquino said:
'Daywalker said:
PPR thread got me thinking why does my league have such a mundane regard for Team Defense. I guess it's not as bad as PK's but it's still a very boring position.

Have no interest in IDP.

Just wondering if anyone has experience with a scoring system that could potentially lead you to draft a Team Defense in round 1? And what the pro's/con's and consequences will be.

Just think defenses are predictable enough that they shouldn't be afterthoughts in my league as kickers are.
Defending Reality
Great article.New Team Defense Score = Turnovers (INTs + Fumbles + 4th Down Stops) x 2 + Forced Punts

So basically:

INT= 2

Fumble= 2

4th Down stop= 2

Forced punt= 1

TD= 6

Safety= 2

Correct?
Thanks - the 2011 version just came out too. I'm utterly amazed every year just how well it comes out (the results).Yes that's the scoring system - but feel free to add KR/PR/Def TDs. That's perfectly fine - add 6 for those.

 
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'Daywalker said:
PPR thread got me thinking why does my league have such a mundane regard for Team Defense. I guess it's not as bad as PK's but it's still a very boring position.Have no interest in IDP.Just wondering if anyone has experience with a scoring system that could potentially lead you to draft a Team Defense in round 1? And what the pro's/con's and consequences will be.Just think defenses are predictable enough that they shouldn't be afterthoughts in my league as kickers are.
Defenses are pretty valuable in my system. They go as high as the 6th round and score as many points as any other position. Having a good defense is a big advantage since they can put up over 30 points.
Code:
Scoring for Defensive CategoriesBFB - Blocked Field Goals (ID/ST/DST)	2 pointsBXP - Blocked Extra Points (ID/ST/DST)	2 pointsDFR - Defensive/ST Fumble Recovered (ID/DT/DST)	2 pointsDSTPA - Points Against Defense/ST0 - 0 DSTPAs = 13 points 1 - 6 DSTPAs = 8 points 7 - 10 DSTPAs = 4 points 11 - 17 DSTPAs = 2 points 32 - 38 DSTPAs = -2 points 39 - 99 DSTPAs = -4 points DTD - Total Defensive and Special Teams TD 6 pointsInt - Interceptions	2 pointsSACK - Sack	1 pointSTY - Safety	2 pointsYDS - Yards Allowed0 - 49 YDSs = 10 points 50 - 99 YDSs = 8 points 100 - 149 YDSs = 6 points 150 - 199 YDSs = 5 points 200 - 249 YDSs = 2 points 250 - 299 YDSs = 1 point 300 - 399 YDSs = 0 points 400 - 500 YDSs = -2 points 501+ YDSs = -4 points
 
Last year there was a thread with some interesting discussion on whether it ever made sense to take a defense early. Here's what I had to say on the subject:

In my mind, in order to be worthy of a high draft pick, a position must meet three criteria.

Criteria #1- the position must be valuable. This one is pretty self evident. There's no point in spending a high draft pick on a position that will contribute very little value to your roster. If your league has a "head coach" position that gets you 1 point for a win and 0 points for a loss, then there's no blessed reason to ever take a head coach in your draft ever, period. They just aren't valuable. The difference between the 2007 Patriots and the 2008 Lions is just 16 points.

Criteria #2- the position must be predictable. This one should also be self evident. How frequently does the player who ranks 1st in preseason ADP finish 1st in points? How often does he finish in the top 5? The top 10? How often do guys taken outside of the top 12 finish inside the top 6? How often do guys taken outside the top 24 finish inside the top 12? There's no sense spending a high draft pick on a position that has been historically unpredictable, because you're just as likely to get a stud with the first player off the board as you are with the 12th.

Criteria #3- the position must be difficult to replace. If you don't spend a high pick on the position, then how easy will it be for you to acquire quality contributors during the season? How often are quality players available on waivers? How successful are by-committee approaches to the position?

By my reckoning, defenses will sometimes meet criteria #1 (they are often valuable- depending on the scoring system, owning the #1 defense can frequently give a large advantage), but they almost always fail MISERABLY at point #2 and point #3. There's so much unpredictability from season to season that we never know for sure which units are the dominant ones until the season is half over. Few positions see so many players regarded as "bad" during the preseason wind up radically outperforming expectations during the season (witness Cincinnati, Denver, and New Orleans last year, just to name a few). Part of that is because defenses rely heavily on 11 moving parts, and all it takes is one of them getting injured (witness: Troy Polamalu) or playing out of his mind (witness: Darren Sharper) to radically alter the defense's fates. In addition, I don't think there's a single other position in fantasy football that is affected by matchups to a greater degree, which means that Defense-By-Committee approaches will frequently score as highly as getting a single stud defense. Plus, there's absolutely no positional scarcity (I have yet to hear of a start-2-defense league), which means impact performers (or bad defenses with fantastic matchups) are frequently available on the waiver wire. Just look at Arizona last year. They were a poor defense all season long, but around week 10 a lot of people started noticing that they played Detroit and St. Louis in weeks 15 and 16, so people quietly added them for the playoff run. Sure enough, in those two weeks the Cardinals totalled 6 sacks and 7 takeaways, giving up only 27 points (plus another 7 points given up by the offense on a 100 yard INT return). The Cardinals outperformed most of the "stud" defenses when it really mattered simply because they had the right matchups.

Given all of that, I would never take a defense high. I'd much rather grab some sleepers with upside, constantly pan the wire, and play matchups to achieve the same result (if not better!) with a fraction of the resource investment.
 
Last year there was a thread with some interesting discussion on whether it ever made sense to take a defense early. Here's what I had to say on the subject:

In my mind, in order to be worthy of a high draft pick, a position must meet three criteria.

Criteria #1- the position must be valuable. This one is pretty self evident. There's no point in spending a high draft pick on a position that will contribute very little value to your roster. If your league has a "head coach" position that gets you 1 point for a win and 0 points for a loss, then there's no blessed reason to ever take a head coach in your draft ever, period. They just aren't valuable. The difference between the 2007 Patriots and the 2008 Lions is just 16 points.

Criteria #2- the position must be predictable. This one should also be self evident. How frequently does the player who ranks 1st in preseason ADP finish 1st in points? How often does he finish in the top 5? The top 10? How often do guys taken outside of the top 12 finish inside the top 6? How often do guys taken outside the top 24 finish inside the top 12? There's no sense spending a high draft pick on a position that has been historically unpredictable, because you're just as likely to get a stud with the first player off the board as you are with the 12th.

Criteria #3- the position must be difficult to replace. If you don't spend a high pick on the position, then how easy will it be for you to acquire quality contributors during the season? How often are quality players available on waivers? How successful are by-committee approaches to the position?

By my reckoning, defenses will sometimes meet criteria #1 (they are often valuable- depending on the scoring system, owning the #1 defense can frequently give a large advantage), but they almost always fail MISERABLY at point #2 and point #3. There's so much unpredictability from season to season that we never know for sure which units are the dominant ones until the season is half over. Few positions see so many players regarded as "bad" during the preseason wind up radically outperforming expectations during the season (witness Cincinnati, Denver, and New Orleans last year, just to name a few). Part of that is because defenses rely heavily on 11 moving parts, and all it takes is one of them getting injured (witness: Troy Polamalu) or playing out of his mind (witness: Darren Sharper) to radically alter the defense's fates. In addition, I don't think there's a single other position in fantasy football that is affected by matchups to a greater degree, which means that Defense-By-Committee approaches will frequently score as highly as getting a single stud defense. Plus, there's absolutely no positional scarcity (I have yet to hear of a start-2-defense league), which means impact performers (or bad defenses with fantastic matchups) are frequently available on the waiver wire. Just look at Arizona last year. They were a poor defense all season long, but around week 10 a lot of people started noticing that they played Detroit and St. Louis in weeks 15 and 16, so people quietly added them for the playoff run. Sure enough, in those two weeks the Cardinals totalled 6 sacks and 7 takeaways, giving up only 27 points (plus another 7 points given up by the offense on a 100 yard INT return). The Cardinals outperformed most of the "stud" defenses when it really mattered simply because they had the right matchups.

Given all of that, I would never take a defense high. I'd much rather grab some sleepers with upside, constantly pan the wire, and play matchups to achieve the same result (if not better!) with a fraction of the resource investment.
The unpredictability of the position is the problem. My gimmick of picking one defense each week using a WW while only being able to select each team once makes it mute.The question you will have going into the season is how you want to deploy your defense. Do you want to take projected middle of the road defenses with great matchups early on? Wait 4-5 weeks to see who the top defenses are shaping out to be? I'm up against the best team in the league maybe it's time I use Pittsburgh and their great matchup instead of saving them for the playoffs. I'm playoff bound currently let me save my best teams/matchups for the playoffs. Oh look M. Schaub is out this week maybe a good time to select their opponent.

Lot's of strategy to think of on a weekly basis. More hands on and puts defense in it's proper place without going IDP.

 
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Perhaps you give WW priority to higher seeded teams in the playoffs rewarding those teams for their great season.

Lots of setup and strategy to mine here.

 
The unpredictability of the position is the problem. My gimmick of picking one defense each week using a WW while only being able to select each team once makes it mute.The question you will have going into the season is how you want to deploy your defense. Do you want to take projected middle of the road defenses with great matchups early on? Wait 4-5 weeks to see who the top defenses are shaping out to be? I'm up against the best team in the league maybe it's time I use Pittsburgh and their great matchup instead of saving them for the playoffs. I'm playoff bound currently let me save my best teams/matchups for the playoffs. Oh look M. Schaub is out this week maybe a good time to select their opponent.Lot's of strategy to think of on a weekly basis. More hands on and puts defense in it's proper place without going IDP.
Personally, I wouldn't approach a league much (if any) differently if it implemented your "pick a different defense every week" rule. Instead of identifying the best defense and playing it every week, I'd just identify the worst offense and play whatever defense is facing them this week. For instance, last year's top defense (the Pittsburgh Steelers) allowed 232 points, had 35 takeaways, and 48 sacks. Meanwhile, if your defense was the "Anti-Panthers" (i.e. whoever was playing the Panthers every week), your defense would have allowed 196 points, had 37 takeaways, and had 50 sacks- that's 36 fewer points, 2 more takeaways, and 2 more sacks. That's why defense by committee works so well (because no position is more matchup-predictable and matchup-dependent), and why there's no scoring system that could entice me to take a defense in the 1st. If I couldn't ride one good defense, I'd simply turn around and ride one bad offense, instead.
 
I cannot take credit for this as our scoring system came from the leagues formerly run by STATS.

In our league, offensive scoring is roughly doubled in that TDs are worth 12 points while you get 1 point per 5 yards receiving and 1 point per 10 yards passing.

Our Overall Defense scoring = (28-points defensive points allowed) *3 + 2 points per stop + 12 for special team TDs scored + 4 for safeties

Stop = forced punt, 4th down fail or turnover

Generally, a shutout will get you roughly 104 points which is equivalent to about 50 in a normal scoring league whereas giving up 28 points defensively will get your team under 10 points. Therefore, in our league, it is key to get as many good defenses as possible and play matchups.

Last year, the top 12 Ds were:

Pitt 962 points

GB 914

Chi 875

NYJ 808

Balt 799

SD 797

KC 784

NO 744

NYG 734

STL 715

MIN 715

Houston was last at 369 points.

As you can see, there was a 247 point difference between the 1st and 12th defense. For comparison purposes, the difference betwwen Roddy White (#1 WR) and the #30 (Lance Moore) WR was 245 points. Arian Foster lapped the field at RB so the difference between him and the #3 RB was 247 points. However, the difference between the #2 RB and the #17 RB was 245 points.

We also play a Rush D and and Pass D. The result of this is that our bench spots are filled with defenses rather than offensive players.

 
PPR thread got me thinking why does my league have such a mundane regard for Team Defense. I guess it's not as bad as PK's but it's still a very boring position.

Have no interest in IDP.

Just wondering if anyone has experience with a scoring system that could potentially lead you to draft a Team Defense in round 1? And what the pro's/con's and consequences will be.

Just think defenses are predictable enough that they shouldn't be afterthoughts in my league as kickers are.
Defending Reality
Great article.New Team Defense Score = Turnovers (INTs + Fumbles + 4th Down Stops) x 2 + Forced Punts

So basically:

INT= 2

Fumble= 2

4th Down stop= 2

Forced punt= 1

TD= 6

Safety= 2

Correct?
A bit confused how to enter in forced punts on My Fantasy League scoring. I assume 4th down stop is 4th down conversion on MFL?But don't think I'm entering forced punts in correctly. Currently it just says punts. 1 pt. each. Is that correct. Would think it would say "forced punts." Perhaps I should chose punt returns and give defense 1 pt. for each?

 
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PPR thread got me thinking why does my league have such a mundane regard for Team Defense. I guess it's not as bad as PK's but it's still a very boring position.

Have no interest in IDP.

Just wondering if anyone has experience with a scoring system that could potentially lead you to draft a Team Defense in round 1? And what the pro's/con's and consequences will be.

Just think defenses are predictable enough that they shouldn't be afterthoughts in my league as kickers are.
Defending Reality
Great article.New Team Defense Score = Turnovers (INTs + Fumbles + 4th Down Stops) x 2 + Forced Punts

So basically:

INT= 2

Fumble= 2

4th Down stop= 2

Forced punt= 1

TD= 6

Safety= 2

Correct?
A bit confused how to enter in forced punts on My Fantasy League scoring. I assume 4th down stop is 4th down conversion on MFL?But don't think I'm entering forced punts in correctly. Currently it just says punts. 1 pt. each. Is that correct. Would think it would say "forced punts." Perhaps I should chose punt returns and give defense 1 pt. for each?
MFL has the option of scoring either for or against your team - meaning if you count "punts", they can be either by your team ("team punts") or by the other team ("opposing team punts").
 
PPR thread got me thinking why does my league have such a mundane regard for Team Defense. I guess it's not as bad as PK's but it's still a very boring position.

Have no interest in IDP.

Just wondering if anyone has experience with a scoring system that could potentially lead you to draft a Team Defense in round 1? And what the pro's/con's and consequences will be.

Just think defenses are predictable enough that they shouldn't be afterthoughts in my league as kickers are.
Defending Reality
Great article.New Team Defense Score = Turnovers (INTs + Fumbles + 4th Down Stops) x 2 + Forced Punts

So basically:

INT= 2

Fumble= 2

4th Down stop= 2

Forced punt= 1

TD= 6

Safety= 2

Correct?
A bit confused how to enter in forced punts on My Fantasy League scoring. I assume 4th down stop is 4th down conversion on MFL?But don't think I'm entering forced punts in correctly. Currently it just says punts. 1 pt. each. Is that correct. Would think it would say "forced punts." Perhaps I should chose punt returns and give defense 1 pt. for each?
Gotcha. thanks.MFL has the option of scoring either for or against your team - meaning if you count "punts", they can be either by your team ("team punts") or by the other team ("opposing team punts").
 
PPR thread got me thinking why does my league have such a mundane regard for Team Defense. I guess it's not as bad as PK's but it's still a very boring position.

Have no interest in IDP.

Just wondering if anyone has experience with a scoring system that could potentially lead you to draft a Team Defense in round 1? And what the pro's/con's and consequences will be.

Just think defenses are predictable enough that they shouldn't be afterthoughts in my league as kickers are.
Defending Reality
Great article.New Team Defense Score = Turnovers (INTs + Fumbles + 4th Down Stops) x 2 + Forced Punts

So basically:

INT= 2

Fumble= 2

4th Down stop= 2

Forced punt= 1

TD= 6

Safety= 2

Correct?
A bit confused how to enter in forced punts on My Fantasy League scoring. I assume 4th down stop is 4th down conversion on MFL?But don't think I'm entering forced punts in correctly. Currently it just says punts. 1 pt. each. Is that correct. Would think it would say "forced punts." Perhaps I should chose punt returns and give defense 1 pt. for each?
MFL has the option of scoring either for or against your team - meaning if you count "punts", they can be either by your team ("team punts") or by the other team ("opposing team punts").
When entering "opposing team punts" it says it does not include blocked punts. Therefore, I should add "blocked punts" as a scoring category as well?
 

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