Tebow vs. Palmer (1 Viewer)

[KOTC]

I was convinced that Tim Tebow was the #1 pickup this week until I heard about Carson Palmer going to the Raiders. Is Tebow still the top QB to target or does Palmer grab the top spot?

Not just for week 7 (since Palmer may not play and Tebow has a good matchup). Looking at the remainder of the season.

What do you think?

 

[sharkbait006]

I still like Tebow the rest of the way. He'll get rushing yards and TDs and I think everyone is underestimating his ability to effective pass and manage an offense. Palmer is nice but that's a running team. He's not being asked to carry the team. Tebow is just more dynamic.

 

[duaneok66]

Palmer . . .

 

[Simayi]

I'd rather have Palmer QB my NFL team, but I'll take Tebow to QB my fantasy team. He'll be a goal-line back like Cam Newton.

 

[kegger]

I went Palmer, and did not grab Tebow..

Not saying I'm convinced, but it was the way I "leaned"..

 

[footballnerd]

Tebow is still on your waivers?

 

[az_prof]

Tebow and it isn't even close.

1) Palmer hasn't played a snap in a long time.

2) Palmer has to learn a new offense.

3) Tebow enjoys running yards and TDs that Palmer will not.

4) While Raiders receivers are SLIGHTLY better, it isn't like he he is going to be throwing to Megatron.

Why would anyone want Palmer? Let's not forget that Palmer hasn't been very good since his injury.

 

[YouthofToday]

Tebow and it isn't even close.1) Palmer hasn't played a snap in a long time.2) Palmer has to learn a new offense.3) Tebow enjoys running yards and TDs that Palmer will not.4) While Raiders receivers are SLIGHTLY better, it isn't like he he is going to be throwing to Megatron. Why would anyone want Palmer? Let's not forget that Palmer hasn't been very good since his injury.

This. Palmer said his arm strength was 101% 2 years ago... yeah, not so much. It's Tebow and it's really not even close. Palmer isn't even a top 15 option ROS.

 

[DoubleG]

Tebow and it isn't even close.1) Palmer hasn't played a snap in a long time.2) Palmer has to learn a new offense.3) Tebow enjoys running yards and TDs that Palmer will not.4) While Raiders receivers are SLIGHTLY better, it isn't like he he is going to be throwing to Megatron. Why would anyone want Palmer? Let's not forget that Palmer hasn't been very good since his injury.

This. Palmer said his arm strength was 101% 2 years ago... yeah, not so much. It's Tebow and it's really not even close. Palmer isn't even a top 15 option ROS.

+1 - nicely put az. I think Palmer (FF-wise) is a weak QB2, while Tebow has the upside to be a decent QB1.

 

[kegger]

Tebow is still on your waivers?

No he was last week, I didn't drop a guy to grab him.(I was tempted but didn't pull the trigger)This week I did drop a guy to stash Palmer on the bench.

 

[Frenchy Fuqua]

Anything is possible, but...

In 16 starts last year Palmer posted 20+ pts (FBG standard scoring) five times.

In three starts last year Tebow posted 20+ pts every time and put up 18.8 in one half this year.

 

[doeseatplace]

tebow

 

[Chicken Hawkin]

The only players on the Raiders I would rely on for consistent production from this point on are DMC and Seabass. Not tryin to piss in anyone's pool but all the WR, while they know the offense, will have to adjust to Palmer. I could be wrong and have been a lot but I wouldn't have anyone on that team but the kicker or the RB. Actually, I see DMC gaining value. I think he'll catch a few more passes a game. Palmer, I predict, will throw just as many picks as td's. Tebow, as we all should know, will probably be the worst passer of all the starting QB's this season, but his runs n td's will make up for his poor skills. If you start Tebow at QB, you are basically starting a consistent rb, who will run for 50-75 yards and throw for 100 to 2oo yards and a td here and there. I dropped Decker to pickup Tebow last week.

 

[mrspree15]

since Palmer may not play

Link for this? I need a week 7 QB and Palmer is in the running.

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

since Palmer may not play

Link for this? I need a week 7 QB and Palmer is in the running.

I heard Hue Jackson refuse to answer whether Palmer would start week 7 on NFLN.Even if he does, a QB stepping into an offense cold seems unlikely to be your best option.

 

[Touchdown Syndrome]

Anything is possible, but...In 16 starts last year Palmer posted 20+ pts (FBG standard scoring) five times.In three starts last year Tebow posted 20+ pts every time and put up 18.8 in one half this year.

This.Tebow was an elite QB at the end of 2010 as a starter.Small sample size, but the upside is obvious.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

This is some kind of weird joke, right?

In 2010 Tebow started 3 games. His *worst* game in those three he scored 23 fantasy points.

Carson Palmer, in 16 games in 2010, beat that number *one* time (by one point).

That's right, in 16 tries Palmer beat Tebow's *worst* score one time. And that was Tebow playing the first three games of his career and Carson playing in a system he was used to that he no longer has.

What exactly are people hoping for with Palmer? His upside is a low-end QB1. If you're starting a guy like Palmer as your QB in anything less than a 16 team league then you are at a distinct disadvantage at QB every week.

 

[The_Wolfman]

This is some kind of weird joke, right?In 2010 Tebow started 3 games. His *worst* game in those three he scored 23 fantasy points.Carson Palmer, in 16 games in 2010, beat that number *one* time (by one point).That's right, in 16 tries Palmer beat Tebow's *worst* score one time. And that was Tebow playing the first three games of his career and Carson playing in a system he was used to that he no longer has.What exactly are people hoping for with Palmer? His upside is a low-end QB1. If you're starting a guy like Palmer as your QB in anything less than a 16 team league then you are at a distinct disadvantage at QB every week.

Just wondering...where are you getting your data from?Assuming 25 PaYds=1 point, and PaTDs=6, Palmer put up the following point totals:Week7: 412 Yds, 3TDs (34.48 pts)Week 16: 269 Yds, 4TDs (34.76)Granted, the rest of his season wasn't anything great but it's not like he never had big games last year.

 

[DoubleG]

This is some kind of weird joke, right?In 2010 Tebow started 3 games. His *worst* game in those three he scored 23 fantasy points.Carson Palmer, in 16 games in 2010, beat that number *one* time (by one point).That's right, in 16 tries Palmer beat Tebow's *worst* score one time. And that was Tebow playing the first three games of his career and Carson playing in a system he was used to that he no longer has.What exactly are people hoping for with Palmer? His upside is a low-end QB1. If you're starting a guy like Palmer as your QB in anything less than a 16 team league then you are at a distinct disadvantage at QB every week.

Just wondering...where are you getting your data from?Assuming 25 PaYds=1 point, and PaTDs=6, Palmer put up the following point totals:Week7: 412 Yds, 3TDs (34.48 pts)Week 16: 269 Yds, 4TDs (34.76)Granted, the rest of his season wasn't anything great but it's not like he never had big games last year.

Not to speak for the OP, but most leagues I play in are 4 points for passing TDs - which is probably part of it. Incidentally, that scoring format (4 for passing TDs, 6 for rushing) is part of the reason Tebow is more valuable than Palmer.

 

[fightingillini]

I have zero clue why anyone would think Palmer would be a better fantasy QB for the rest of the year than Tebow. Sure, Tebow is going to make mistakes, is very raw as an NFL QB and has a lot to learn regarding reading defenses. But when you can get 40+ rushing yards and a rushing TD 2 out of every 3 weeks, that's about 8 or more extra points a game just from running the ball. Add in 150-250 yards passing and 1 TD, you're looking at 10-14 points from passing. Add in a pick or two, you're looking at 17-20 points a game with a 1 pt/25 yds passing, 1 pt per 10 yards rushing, 4 pt per TD pass and 6 pts per TD run. 17-20 PPG is a top 10 QB. Plus, DEN's defense isn't very good and DEN is going to have to score a lot to stay in games. Tebow is going to get the opportunity.

Palmer will likely just throw for about 200-225 yards, 1-2 scores a 1 INT a game. That's all OAK is going to ask Palmer to do. That offense runs through McFadden, with M Bush spelling him. OAK is a run-first team, period.

 

[mrspree15]

since Palmer may not play

Link for this? I need a week 7 QB and Palmer is in the running.

I heard Hue Jackson refuse to answer whether Palmer would start week 7 on NFLN.Even if he does, a QB stepping into an offense cold seems unlikely to be your best option.

I wish it weren't the case

 

[KOTC]

So the overall consensus in the topic is that Tebow is the better option going forward. That's what I was hoping to get from this. Now the question is what is Tebow worth in trade value? What have you seen people give up for this guy?

Forgive me if this topic should now be in the Assistant Coach forum, just wanted to get all of the pro-Tebow posters' opinions. I've seen many different trades involving Tebow in my league and trying to gauge what he is worth.

For example is Tebow worth giving up a RB like Daniel Thomas, a WR like B.Lloyd, etc.?

 

[The Sniper]

Tebow and it isn't even close.1) Palmer hasn't played a snap in a long time.2) Palmer has to learn a new offense.3) Tebow enjoys running yards and TDs that Palmer will not.4) While Raiders receivers are SLIGHTLY better, it isn't like he he is going to be throwing to Megatron. Why would anyone want Palmer? Let's not forget that Palmer hasn't been very good since his injury.

This guy knows things.

 

[doowain]

Tebow and it isn't even close.1) Palmer hasn't played a snap in a long time.2) Palmer has to learn a new offense.3) Tebow enjoys running yards and TDs that Palmer will not.4) While Raiders receivers are SLIGHTLY better, it isn't like he he is going to be throwing to Megatron. Why would anyone want Palmer? Let's not forget that Palmer hasn't been very good since his injury.

This. Palmer said his arm strength was 101% 2 years ago... yeah, not so much. It's Tebow and it's really not even close. Palmer isn't even a top 15 option ROS.

False.Sure, he wasn't a Top 3 guy like he was pre-injuries, but in 2009 he finished as QB14 and in 2010 he finished as QB12. Not earth shattering, but if the reports are true that he has regained the zip on his ball (even if some of it), then he will be a steal off of the WW. The Raiders have playmaking WRs and he will be playing with the best RB he has in his career. I'd be willing to bet he finishes in the Top 12 QBs the rest of the way. Of course this is assuming he steps in as the starter right away.I'd still prefer Tebow, but it's much closer than some may think.

 

[fightingillini]

Tebow and it isn't even close.1) Palmer hasn't played a snap in a long time.2) Palmer has to learn a new offense.3) Tebow enjoys running yards and TDs that Palmer will not.4) While Raiders receivers are SLIGHTLY better, it isn't like he he is going to be throwing to Megatron. Why would anyone want Palmer? Let's not forget that Palmer hasn't been very good since his injury.

This. Palmer said his arm strength was 101% 2 years ago... yeah, not so much. It's Tebow and it's really not even close. Palmer isn't even a top 15 option ROS.

False.Sure, he wasn't a Top 3 guy like he was pre-injuries, but in 2009 he finished as QB14 and in 2010 he finished as QB12. Not earth shattering, but if the reports are true that he has regained the zip on his ball (even if some of it), then he will be a steal off of the WW. The Raiders have playmaking WRs and he will be playing with the best RB he has in his career. I'd be willing to bet he finishes in the Top 12 QBs the rest of the way. Of course this is assuming he steps in as the starter right away.I'd still prefer Tebow, but it's much closer than some may think.

QB12? No way. Palmer is QB15 at best going forward.You can't assume what happened in the past will continue to occur. Palmer is in a much different situation. He's likely going to be more of game manager than slingling it all over the field. OAK is going to run the ball....a lot. McFadden getting 20 carries and Bush another 6-10. I don't think the opportunity is going to be there on a consistent basis for Palmer to be QB12.

 

[fightingillini]

So the overall consensus in the topic is that Tebow is the better option going forward. That's what I was hoping to get from this. Now the question is what is Tebow worth in trade value? What have you seen people give up for this guy?Forgive me if this topic should now be in the Assistant Coach forum, just wanted to get all of the pro-Tebow posters' opinions. I've seen many different trades involving Tebow in my league and trying to gauge what he is worth. For example is Tebow worth giving up a RB like Daniel Thomas, a WR like B.Lloyd, etc.?

Depends.In 1QB start leagues, Tebow for a healthy Daniel Thomas is fair.....assuming that you have another solid option at QB. No way I would trade Tebow for Lloyd straight up. I would need a decent #2WR say like Dez Bryant in a straight up deal.In 2QB start leagues or superflex leagues where you can start 2QBs, Tebow has a lot more value and I wouldn't trade him for Daniel Thomas straight up unless I was really thin at RB.Best bet with Tebow is figure out a 2-2 trade with some who needs a QB and make a nice upgrade at RB or WR.

 

[doowain]

Tebow and it isn't even close.1) Palmer hasn't played a snap in a long time.2) Palmer has to learn a new offense.3) Tebow enjoys running yards and TDs that Palmer will not.4) While Raiders receivers are SLIGHTLY better, it isn't like he he is going to be throwing to Megatron. Why would anyone want Palmer? Let's not forget that Palmer hasn't been very good since his injury.

This. Palmer said his arm strength was 101% 2 years ago... yeah, not so much. It's Tebow and it's really not even close. Palmer isn't even a top 15 option ROS.

False.Sure, he wasn't a Top 3 guy like he was pre-injuries, but in 2009 he finished as QB14 and in 2010 he finished as QB12. Not earth shattering, but if the reports are true that he has regained the zip on his ball (even if some of it), then he will be a steal off of the WW. The Raiders have playmaking WRs and he will be playing with the best RB he has in his career. I'd be willing to bet he finishes in the Top 12 QBs the rest of the way. Of course this is assuming he steps in as the starter right away.I'd still prefer Tebow, but it's much closer than some may think.

QB12? No way. Palmer is QB15 at best going forward.You can't assume what happened in the past will continue to occur. Palmer is in a much different situation. He's likely going to be more of game manager than slingling it all over the field. OAK is going to run the ball....a lot. McFadden getting 20 carries and Bush another 6-10. I don't think the opportunity is going to be there on a consistent basis for Palmer to be QB12.

Bengals rushing attempts2009 - 5052010 - 428You are likely talking about a 1PPG difference between QB12 and QB15. Clearly splitting hairs here. Regardless, your speculation on the offensive philosophy going forward has as much basis (if not less) than mine. Are you saying that Palmer is a step down from Campbell? Because I see it the other way around.

 

[UnderDawgs]

Anything is possible, but...

In 16 starts last year Palmer posted 20+ pts (FBG standard scoring) five times.

In three starts last year Tebow posted 20+ pts every time and put up 18.8 in one half this year.

Hey - you wouldn't happen to remember who those opposing teams were, would you?

 

[moleculo]

Palmer hasn't played football since 2010. No training camp, no organized off-season workouts, nada. I'm sure he's kept himself in shape, but that's not quite the same as mid-season NFL form.

and now people are thinking he is going to be a top-12 QB, with a new playbook, new coaches, new receivers?

I'll be impressed if Palmer is a top 30 QB the rest of the way.

 

[fightingillini]

Tebow and it isn't even close.1) Palmer hasn't played a snap in a long time.2) Palmer has to learn a new offense.3) Tebow enjoys running yards and TDs that Palmer will not.4) While Raiders receivers are SLIGHTLY better, it isn't like he he is going to be throwing to Megatron. Why would anyone want Palmer? Let's not forget that Palmer hasn't been very good since his injury.

This. Palmer said his arm strength was 101% 2 years ago... yeah, not so much. It's Tebow and it's really not even close. Palmer isn't even a top 15 option ROS.

False.Sure, he wasn't a Top 3 guy like he was pre-injuries, but in 2009 he finished as QB14 and in 2010 he finished as QB12. Not earth shattering, but if the reports are true that he has regained the zip on his ball (even if some of it), then he will be a steal off of the WW. The Raiders have playmaking WRs and he will be playing with the best RB he has in his career. I'd be willing to bet he finishes in the Top 12 QBs the rest of the way. Of course this is assuming he steps in as the starter right away.I'd still prefer Tebow, but it's much closer than some may think.

QB12? No way. Palmer is QB15 at best going forward.You can't assume what happened in the past will continue to occur. Palmer is in a much different situation. He's likely going to be more of game manager than slingling it all over the field. OAK is going to run the ball....a lot. McFadden getting 20 carries and Bush another 6-10. I don't think the opportunity is going to be there on a consistent basis for Palmer to be QB12.

Bengals rushing attempts2009 - 5052010 - 428You are likely talking about a 1PPG difference between QB12 and QB15. Clearly splitting hairs here. Regardless, your speculation on the offensive philosophy going forward has as much basis (if not less) than mine. Are you saying that Palmer is a step down from Campbell? Because I see it the other way around.

I actually said that QB15 was Palmer's upside. I would expect him to be about QB18-19. Is Palmer an upgrade over Campbell? Sure, if his arm is 100% again. We don't know that at this time. Also, remember that Palmer is rusty and is going to need a few weeks to get back in game shape, learn the offense, and get in synch with his WRs and TEs.Not sure why my speculation has less basis. I base my speculation based on what I have seen so far this year. Offensive philosophy comes from the coaching staff. OAK likes to run the ball. They have a good run-blocking OL. Their best player is Darren McFadden....by a mile. He's going to get the ball. A lot. If you think that OAK is going to radically change their offensive philosophy just because they traded for Palmer, then good luck with that. Sure, OAK could pass the ball more with Palmer, but not enough IMO to warrant a QB12 type projection for the rest of the year.

 

[glumpy]

I like Tebow better, despite the run-pass ratio that John Fox prefers to run in his offense.

 

[doowain]

Tebow and it isn't even close.1) Palmer hasn't played a snap in a long time.2) Palmer has to learn a new offense.3) Tebow enjoys running yards and TDs that Palmer will not.4) While Raiders receivers are SLIGHTLY better, it isn't like he he is going to be throwing to Megatron. Why would anyone want Palmer? Let's not forget that Palmer hasn't been very good since his injury.

This. Palmer said his arm strength was 101% 2 years ago... yeah, not so much. It's Tebow and it's really not even close. Palmer isn't even a top 15 option ROS.

False.Sure, he wasn't a Top 3 guy like he was pre-injuries, but in 2009 he finished as QB14 and in 2010 he finished as QB12. Not earth shattering, but if the reports are true that he has regained the zip on his ball (even if some of it), then he will be a steal off of the WW. The Raiders have playmaking WRs and he will be playing with the best RB he has in his career. I'd be willing to bet he finishes in the Top 12 QBs the rest of the way. Of course this is assuming he steps in as the starter right away.I'd still prefer Tebow, but it's much closer than some may think.

QB12? No way. Palmer is QB15 at best going forward.You can't assume what happened in the past will continue to occur. Palmer is in a much different situation. He's likely going to be more of game manager than slingling it all over the field. OAK is going to run the ball....a lot. McFadden getting 20 carries and Bush another 6-10. I don't think the opportunity is going to be there on a consistent basis for Palmer to be QB12.

Bengals rushing attempts2009 - 5052010 - 428You are likely talking about a 1PPG difference between QB12 and QB15. Clearly splitting hairs here. Regardless, your speculation on the offensive philosophy going forward has as much basis (if not less) than mine. Are you saying that Palmer is a step down from Campbell? Because I see it the other way around.

I actually said that QB15 was Palmer's upside. I would expect him to be about QB18-19. Is Palmer an upgrade over Campbell? Sure, if his arm is 100% again. We don't know that at this time. Also, remember that Palmer is rusty and is going to need a few weeks to get back in game shape, learn the offense, and get in synch with his WRs and TEs.Not sure why my speculation has less basis. I base my speculation based on what I have seen so far this year. Offensive philosophy comes from the coaching staff. OAK likes to run the ball. They have a good run-blocking OL. Their best player is Darren McFadden....by a mile. He's going to get the ball. A lot. If you think that OAK is going to radically change their offensive philosophy just because they traded for Palmer, then good luck with that. Sure, OAK could pass the ball more with Palmer, but not enough IMO to warrant a QB12 type projection for the rest of the year.

Jason Campbell (minus his injury shortened Week 6) was QB12 through 5 weeks.

 

[LawFitz]

Palmer has upside too if his arm is back to being healthy. The Raiders have a better offense in nearly all facets than the Broncos. Better coaching, better OL, better RBs, better WRs. I'll give the Broncos the edge at TE, but not by a ton.

Tebow is younger, hungrier, more talented. But also has his own added injury risk due to the playing style. I personally think the guy is a stud and will do well despite his organization not believing in him. But Palmer is in the much better situation, as crazy as that sounds considering it's the Raiders and Broncos.