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Ted Ginn, Jr. Has Lisfranc Sprain (1 Viewer)

Cecil Lammey said:
Just talked to Ginn's personal trainer and he said that the injury isn't as serious as being reported.
[sarcasm]Well, then it must be true. No way a guy who is paid to keep Ted Ginn in top physical shape would be duplicitous about Ted Ginn's physical shape.[/sarcasm]
 
Warpig said:
:lmao:

Dolphins are idiots. They are kicking themselves in the a-z-z now for not taking Quinn Okoye (or Willis).

What a bunch of dolts.
:corrected:Quinn would have been a poor fit for Miami. They should have addressed a non-skill position area with that pick.

 
Wow Family Matters, you are in serious defense mode.
Seems alot are bashing Ginn and making comments that really don't add up. MAking comparisons to Warrick are naive in knowing what kind of player Ginn is.So I'm just trying to help the Fins fans out a bit. I really don't care much about the Dolphins so it's no sweat off my back if they win or lose. But they're going to really happy about Ginn in a few years. But for some reason, without a single snap being played, many are predicting total doom. I just find that amazing.
 
Just look at how fast he's at top speed. :bag:

He's going to make everyone around him so much more productive than they were before.

 
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Wow Family Matters, you are in serious defense mode.
Seems alot are bashing Ginn and making comments that really don't add up. MAking comparisons to Warrick are naive in knowing what kind of player Ginn is.So I'm just trying to help the Fins fans out a bit. I really don't care much about the Dolphins so it's no sweat off my back if they win or lose. But they're going to really happy about Ginn in a few years. But for some reason, without a single snap being played, many are predicting total doom. I just find that amazing.
I hate the pick.I do not predict doom for Ginn as a player, but I still dislike the pick.The absolute best he can do is live up to exactly what the 'phins thought they got, which would be a game breaking WR who is a spark plug in the return game. If they got early career Steve Smith out of this draft, they'll have a great player on their squad - you can't coach speed, which is why you draft it high.That said, he will never be the face of the franchise, he has a tremendous uphill battle for fan support, they had bigger needs in other areas, and he can not single handedly turn the offense around unless you really believe he is a Randy Moss/Terrel Owens type. And I don't think anyone has those kind of illusions.Much greater effect on the W-L column for the phins would have been an impact LB, impact DT, QB, or even a future 10-year stalwart on the OL.With this injury news, he is not as likely to have an impact this year and he could have recurring problems (unless I misunderstand the nature of the Lis Franc injury). A team in the phins' situation spent a #9 on a taller Steve Smith? Steve Smith was a third round pick. Crappy pick for the fins, IMO, even if you feel Ginn is a top-10 talent.On the flip side, he is a great kid, eminently coachable, he has a ton of measurable talent, he will be even better for the 'phins return game than Welker was, he could definitely evolve into a top-10 fantasy WR, and a player with that kind of speed can always get separation and command a safety's attention (something even Chris Chambers has had problems with).In all, draft all the speedy receivers you want (Chambers aint no speed slouch), but if noone is behind center to throw them the ball and if the guy behind the center lacks the time to get the ball downfield, what good is being wide open downfield?
 
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cue sick highlight reel...

He can run patterns - the problem is the accuracy of his routes. And he has poor ability at catching the ball in traffic and nothing demonstrated in re: going up and getting the ball.Plus, some question his ability to get off the line against the kind of corners in the NFL - he never faced anything similar to that kind of line press in college. The NFL corners who play man press from the line are so far above college players it is ridiculous.

When he gets five downfield and makes a slashing cut, he's awesome to watch.

 
Just look at how fast he's at top speed. :thumbup:
He is very fast.
He's going to make everyone around him so much more productive than they were before.
Non-sequitor. His speed won't translate into making the phins' O better, but he might impact a few games with big plays. On the highlight reel, I saw a lot of college level tackling and college level return coverage.
 
Will he be able to run a route 40 yards down field faster than the other teams DE can run 7 yards to get to the QB?

 
Just look at how fast he's at top speed. :shrug:
He is very fast.
He's going to make everyone around him so much more productive than they were before.
Non-sequitor. His speed won't translate into making the phins' O better, but he might impact a few games with big plays. On the highlight reel, I saw a lot of college level tackling and college level return coverage.
Were they...uh....college highlight reels?
 
Cecil Lammey said:
Just talked to Ginn's personal trainer and he said that the injury isn't as serious as being reported. Travelle told me that Ginn would be 100% for training camp. I also know that Adam Schefter is on top of this, and will be reporting on it during Total Access.
So does the foot need to be immobilized or not? The report was that the foot needs to be immobilized and should be ready for training camp.The thing that I don't like is that you have a guy whose biggest assets are his speed and open field cutting ability and he has a foot injury before he even practices against the pro's.
 
Just look at how fast he's at top speed. :banned:
He is very fast.
He's going to make everyone around him so much more productive than they were before.
Non-sequitor. His speed won't translate into making the phins' O better, but he might impact a few games with big plays. On the highlight reel, I saw a lot of college level tackling and college level return coverage.
On the film I saw a lot of first round CBs getting torched.
 
[That said, he will never be the face of the franchise,
do you really think they expect him to be the face of the Dolphins organization? He's a college rookie pick who they believe offers superior KR speed and potential aid for Chris Chambers. He's not a sexy pick but half of college players bust so let's wait and see what happens at this point. Heck, Beck might be the face of MIA over the next few years after what we've been going through with Fiedler/Frerotte/Feely/Culpepper/Harrington/Lemon debacle. Patience.
 
Wow Family Matters, you are in serious defense mode.
Seems alot are bashing Ginn and making comments that really don't add up. MAking comparisons to Warrick are naive in knowing what kind of player Ginn is.So I'm just trying to help the Fins fans out a bit. I really don't care much about the Dolphins so it's no sweat off my back if they win or lose. But they're going to really happy about Ginn in a few years. But for some reason, without a single snap being played, many are predicting total doom. I just find that amazing.
I hate the pick.I do not predict doom for Ginn as a player, but I still dislike the pick.

The absolute best he can do is live up to exactly what the 'phins thought they got, which would be a game breaking WR who is a spark plug in the return game. If they got early career Steve Smith out of this draft, they'll have a great player on their squad - you can't coach speed, which is why you draft it high.

That said, he will never be the face of the franchise, he has a tremendous uphill battle for fan support, they had bigger needs in other areas, and he can not single handedly turn the offense around unless you really believe he is a Randy Moss/Terrel Owens type. And I don't think anyone has those kind of illusions.

Much greater effect on the W-L column for the phins would have been an impact LB, impact DT, QB, or even a future 10-year stalwart on the OL.

With this injury news, he is not as likely to have an impact this year and he could have recurring problems (unless I misunderstand the nature of the Lis Franc injury). A team in the phins' situation spent a #9 on a taller Steve Smith? Steve Smith was a third round pick. Crappy pick for the fins, IMO, even if you feel Ginn is a top-10 talent.

On the flip side, he is a great kid, eminently coachable, he has a ton of measurable talent, he will be even better for the 'phins return game than Welker was, he could definitely evolve into a top-10 fantasy WR, and a player with that kind of speed can always get separation and command a safety's attention (something even Chris Chambers has had problems with).

In all, draft all the speedy receivers you want (Chambers aint no speed slouch), but if noone is behind center to throw them the ball and if the guy behind the center lacks the time to get the ball downfield, what good is being wide open downfield?
You made apoint that should be noted and has to do with Chambers. Chambers has always drwn the best DB. Now Ginn will probably do that. If so then Chambers should go off. OTOH-if Chambers gets the best DB then watch out for Ginn. In either case, there should always be 1 of them open as long as they are on the field together.
 
Will he be able to run a route 40 yards down field faster than the other teams DE can run 7 yards to get to the QB?
Is that Ginn's fault? Would drafting Brady solve this problem? Does he need to run 40 to get open? Slants are always a great way to defeat an aggressive rush and Ginn can break it open on those. And if they choose to double that down then Chambers is very effective on deep 1 on 1 stuff down the sidelines. At least he used to be. They'll (D's) have to chose their poison.
 
A team in the phins' situation spent a #9 on a taller Steve Smith? Steve Smith was a third round pick. Crappy pick for the fins, IMO, even if you feel Ginn is a top-10 talent.
Is this really a valid argument? If there was a draft right now and you could get a guaranteed Steve Smith, I'm positive the player would go in the first round and likely pretty high in the first. I'm not saying Ginn is a guaranteed Steve Smith and arguments about why he won't be as successful as a Steve Smith are completely valid, but the fact that Steve Smith went in the 3rd round has no bearing on anything. If Miami believes that Ted Ginn is the next Steve Smith and a top-10 talent, they were totally justified in taking him with the 9th pick. There are many good arguments against Ginn, but Steve Smith being a 3rd round pick isn't one of them.
 
Rooster said:
A team in the phins' situation spent a #9 on a taller Steve Smith? Steve Smith was a third round pick. Crappy pick for the fins, IMO, even if you feel Ginn is a top-10 talent.
Is this really a valid argument? If there was a draft right now and you could get a guaranteed Steve Smith, I'm positive the player would go in the first round and likely pretty high in the first. I'm not saying Ginn is a guaranteed Steve Smith and arguments about why he won't be as successful as a Steve Smith are completely valid, but the fact that Steve Smith went in the 3rd round has no bearing on anything. If Miami believes that Ted Ginn is the next Steve Smith and a top-10 talent, they were totally justified in taking him with the 9th pick. There are many good arguments against Ginn, but Steve Smith being a 3rd round pick isn't one of them.
He is what I remember about early career Steve Smith. SS was not projected or expected to evolve into a WR1, same with Ginn. To fill that role on the team, the phins should not have spent a #9 overall pick.
 
Family Matters said:
Wow Family Matters, you are in serious defense mode.
Seems alot are bashing Ginn and making comments that really don't add up. MAking comparisons to Warrick are naive in knowing what kind of player Ginn is.So I'm just trying to help the Fins fans out a bit. I really don't care much about the Dolphins so it's no sweat off my back if they win or lose. But they're going to really happy about Ginn in a few years. But for some reason, without a single snap being played, many are predicting total doom. I just find that amazing.
I hate the pick.I do not predict doom for Ginn as a player, but I still dislike the pick.

The absolute best he can do is live up to exactly what the 'phins thought they got, which would be a game breaking WR who is a spark plug in the return game. If they got early career Steve Smith out of this draft, they'll have a great player on their squad - you can't coach speed, which is why you draft it high.

That said, he will never be the face of the franchise, he has a tremendous uphill battle for fan support, they had bigger needs in other areas, and he can not single handedly turn the offense around unless you really believe he is a Randy Moss/Terrel Owens type. And I don't think anyone has those kind of illusions.

Much greater effect on the W-L column for the phins would have been an impact LB, impact DT, QB, or even a future 10-year stalwart on the OL.

With this injury news, he is not as likely to have an impact this year and he could have recurring problems (unless I misunderstand the nature of the Lis Franc injury). A team in the phins' situation spent a #9 on a taller Steve Smith? Steve Smith was a third round pick. Crappy pick for the fins, IMO, even if you feel Ginn is a top-10 talent.

On the flip side, he is a great kid, eminently coachable, he has a ton of measurable talent, he will be even better for the 'phins return game than Welker was, he could definitely evolve into a top-10 fantasy WR, and a player with that kind of speed can always get separation and command a safety's attention (something even Chris Chambers has had problems with).

In all, draft all the speedy receivers you want (Chambers aint no speed slouch), but if noone is behind center to throw them the ball and if the guy behind the center lacks the time to get the ball downfield, what good is being wide open downfield?
You made apoint that should be noted and has to do with Chambers. Chambers has always drwn the best DB. Now Ginn will probably do that. If so then Chambers should go off. OTOH-if Chambers gets the best DB then watch out for Ginn. In either case, there should always be 1 of them open as long as they are on the field together.
Ginn won't get the #1 DB for at least a year. Chambers will. But your point is valid. And it was not rejected by me - I made that point above when I mentioned he will command a safety's attention. I htink you should watch out for Ginn on play action - if Ginn releases cleanly, and the safety is frozen, Ginn should be behind the D in a flash.
 
Horses Mouth said:
[That said, he will never be the face of the franchise,
do you really think they expect him to be the face of the Dolphins organization? He's a college rookie pick who they believe offers superior KR speed and potential aid for Chris Chambers. He's not a sexy pick but half of college players bust so let's wait and see what happens at this point. Heck, Beck might be the face of MIA over the next few years after what we've been going through with Fiedler/Frerotte/Feely/Culpepper/Harrington/Lemon debacle. Patience.
That was one point among many, but getting butts in the seats is something the phins need to work on. An impact defensive player would have had immediate fan support and would have increased ticket sales.
 
I don't feel like bumping other, older Ginn threads. So I'll just post this here. Everyone keeps saying that Mia reached for Ginn at 1.09. I and others have contested Ginn was gone in the top 15 picks even if Mia had not taken him at 9. Here's some fuel to the fire that Hou was taking him at 1.10.

http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story/10162719

* Let's be clear about this: Miami might have made a mistake drafting wide receiver Ted Ginn ahead of Brady Quinn, but it did not reach for him. Had the Dolphins passed on Ginn, the Houston Texans very likely would have taken Ginn one pick later at No. 10. Ginn was the player the Texans wanted. They envisioned lining him up as the home-run threat opposite Pro Bowl wide receiver Andre Johnson and giving them a pair of receivers that almost could equal Indianapolis' Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne.
 
Horses Mouth said:
[That said, he will never be the face of the franchise,
do you really think they expect him to be the face of the Dolphins organization? He's a college rookie pick who they believe offers superior KR speed and potential aid for Chris Chambers. He's not a sexy pick but half of college players bust so let's wait and see what happens at this point. Heck, Beck might be the face of MIA over the next few years after what we've been going through with Fiedler/Frerotte/Feely/Culpepper/Harrington/Lemon debacle. Patience.
That was one point among many, but getting butts in the seats is something the phins need to work on. An impact defensive player would have had immediate fan support and would have increased ticket sales.
....or maybe a KR who takes it to the house multiple times this season a la Dante Hall? Just saying...
 
I don't feel like bumping other, older Ginn threads. So I'll just post this here. Everyone keeps saying that Mia reached for Ginn at 1.09. I and others have contested Ginn was gone in the top 15 picks even if Mia had not taken him at 9. Here's some fuel to the fire that Hou was taking him at 1.10.

http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story/10162719

* Let's be clear about this: Miami might have made a mistake drafting wide receiver Ted Ginn ahead of Brady Quinn, but it did not reach for him. Had the Dolphins passed on Ginn, the Houston Texans very likely would have taken Ginn one pick later at No. 10. Ginn was the player the Texans wanted. They envisioned lining him up as the home-run threat opposite Pro Bowl wide receiver Andre Johnson and giving them a pair of receivers that almost could equal Indianapolis' Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne.
HOU may not be the best team to use as an example of drafting aptitude.
 
Wow Family Matters, you are in serious defense mode.
Seems alot are bashing Ginn and making comments that really don't add up. MAking comparisons to Warrick are naive in knowing what kind of player Ginn is.So I'm just trying to help the Fins fans out a bit. I really don't care much about the Dolphins so it's no sweat off my back if they win or lose. But they're going to really happy about Ginn in a few years. But for some reason, without a single snap being played, many are predicting total doom. I just find that amazing.
I hate the pick.I do not predict doom for Ginn as a player, but I still dislike the pick.The absolute best he can do is live up to exactly what the 'phins thought they got, which would be a game breaking WR who is a spark plug in the return game. If they got early career Steve Smith out of this draft, they'll have a great player on their squad - you can't coach speed, which is why you draft it high.That said, he will never be the face of the franchise, he has a tremendous uphill battle for fan support, they had bigger needs in other areas, and he can not single handedly turn the offense around unless you really believe he is a Randy Moss/Terrel Owens type. And I don't think anyone has those kind of illusions.Much greater effect on the W-L column for the phins would have been an impact LB, impact DT, QB, or even a future 10-year stalwart on the OL.With this injury news, he is not as likely to have an impact this year and he could have recurring problems (unless I misunderstand the nature of the Lis Franc injury). A team in the phins' situation spent a #9 on a taller Steve Smith? Steve Smith was a third round pick. Crappy pick for the fins, IMO, even if you feel Ginn is a top-10 talent.On the flip side, he is a great kid, eminently coachable, he has a ton of measurable talent, he will be even better for the 'phins return game than Welker was, he could definitely evolve into a top-10 fantasy WR, and a player with that kind of speed can always get separation and command a safety's attention (something even Chris Chambers has had problems with).In all, draft all the speedy receivers you want (Chambers aint no speed slouch), but if noone is behind center to throw them the ball and if the guy behind the center lacks the time to get the ball downfield, what good is being wide open downfield?
You're right on the money here. I also like Ginn but he just doesn't make sense for where the Dolphins currently are. They have serious holes at QB and O line and most of their core defensive players are getting a little old. With far more important areas of need than WR a pick like Ginn just doesn't add up. The Dolphins have not been run well for awhile now. They were once one of the most stable franchises in the NFL but right now they are headed in the wrong direction. IMO this franchise is in a position where the other franchises in their division are far better run and I can really see some very rough waters for the Dolphins in the near future.
 
I don't feel like bumping other, older Ginn threads. So I'll just post this here. Everyone keeps saying that Mia reached for Ginn at 1.09. I and others have contested Ginn was gone in the top 15 picks even if Mia had not taken him at 9. Here's some fuel to the fire that Hou was taking him at 1.10.

http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story/10162719

* Let's be clear about this: Miami might have made a mistake drafting wide receiver Ted Ginn ahead of Brady Quinn, but it did not reach for him. Had the Dolphins passed on Ginn, the Houston Texans very likely would have taken Ginn one pick later at No. 10. Ginn was the player the Texans wanted. They envisioned lining him up as the home-run threat opposite Pro Bowl wide receiver Andre Johnson and giving them a pair of receivers that almost could equal Indianapolis' Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne.
HOU may not be the best team to use as an example of drafting aptitude.
That is irrelevant.
 
Horses Mouth said:
[That said, he will never be the face of the franchise,
do you really think they expect him to be the face of the Dolphins organization? He's a college rookie pick who they believe offers superior KR speed and potential aid for Chris Chambers. He's not a sexy pick but half of college players bust so let's wait and see what happens at this point. Heck, Beck might be the face of MIA over the next few years after what we've been going through with Fiedler/Frerotte/Feely/Culpepper/Harrington/Lemon debacle. Patience.
That was one point among many, but getting butts in the seats is something the phins need to work on. An impact defensive player would have had immediate fan support and would have increased ticket sales.
....or maybe a KR who takes it to the house multiple times this season a la Dante Hall? Just saying...
If he does that, he will start to earn some grudging fan support.As a phin fan, I will re-iterate what I said above, but make it an easy one-liner. I have nothing against Ginn as a player or against his worth as a top-10 draft pick, but I hate the pick for the Dolphins. And I hate it as a fan of the team, even if Ginn performs as expected (which is a reach when talking first round WRs).
 
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I don't feel like bumping other, older Ginn threads. So I'll just post this here. Everyone keeps saying that Mia reached for Ginn at 1.09. I and others have contested Ginn was gone in the top 15 picks even if Mia had not taken him at 9. Here's some fuel to the fire that Hou was taking him at 1.10.

http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story/10162719

* Let's be clear about this: Miami might have made a mistake drafting wide receiver Ted Ginn ahead of Brady Quinn, but it did not reach for him. Had the Dolphins passed on Ginn, the Houston Texans very likely would have taken Ginn one pick later at No. 10. Ginn was the player the Texans wanted. They envisioned lining him up as the home-run threat opposite Pro Bowl wide receiver Andre Johnson and giving them a pair of receivers that almost could equal Indianapolis' Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne.
HOU may not be the best team to use as an example of drafting aptitude.
That is irrelevant.
Ummm, the reach is not the issue - the player they reached for is. Few folks dispute that Ginn was worth a #9-#15 pick. I would have been much happier with either Quinn, Okoye, or Willis in a Dolphin uniform with the #9, however.
 
I don't feel like bumping other, older Ginn threads. So I'll just post this here. Everyone keeps saying that Mia reached for Ginn at 1.09. I and others have contested Ginn was gone in the top 15 picks even if Mia had not taken him at 9. Here's some fuel to the fire that Hou was taking him at 1.10.

http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story/10162719

* Let's be clear about this: Miami might have made a mistake drafting wide receiver Ted Ginn ahead of Brady Quinn, but it did not reach for him. Had the Dolphins passed on Ginn, the Houston Texans very likely would have taken Ginn one pick later at No. 10. Ginn was the player the Texans wanted. They envisioned lining him up as the home-run threat opposite Pro Bowl wide receiver Andre Johnson and giving them a pair of receivers that almost could equal Indianapolis' Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne.
HOU may not be the best team to use as an example of drafting aptitude.
That is irrelevant.
Ummm, the reach is not the issue - the player they reached for is. Few folks dispute that Ginn was worth a #9-#15 pick. I would have been much happier with either Quinn, Okoye, or Willis in a Dolphin uniform with the #9, however.
The "reach" is important and is what was widely discussed... in other threads. Many said Ginn was a 2nd round talent, Mia should have waited till the 2nd to take him, traded down 15 spots and still could have gotten him, ect. That is simply absurd IMO. As I said, I don't feel like bumping other Ginn threads. 1 on page one is enough for me.
 
I don't feel like bumping other, older Ginn threads. So I'll just post this here. Everyone keeps saying that Mia reached for Ginn at 1.09. I and others have contested Ginn was gone in the top 15 picks even if Mia had not taken him at 9. Here's some fuel to the fire that Hou was taking him at 1.10.

http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story/10162719

* Let's be clear about this: Miami might have made a mistake drafting wide receiver Ted Ginn ahead of Brady Quinn, but it did not reach for him. Had the Dolphins passed on Ginn, the Houston Texans very likely would have taken Ginn one pick later at No. 10. Ginn was the player the Texans wanted. They envisioned lining him up as the home-run threat opposite Pro Bowl wide receiver Andre Johnson and giving them a pair of receivers that almost could equal Indianapolis' Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne.
HOU may not be the best team to use as an example of drafting aptitude.
That is irrelevant.
Ummm, the reach is not the issue - the player they reached for is. Few folks dispute that Ginn was worth a #9-#15 pick. I would have been much happier with either Quinn, Okoye, or Willis in a Dolphin uniform with the #9, however.
The "reach" is important and is what was widely discussed... in other threads. Many said Ginn was a 2nd round talent, Mia should have waited till the 2nd to take him, traded down 15 spots and still could have gotten him, ect. That is simply absurd IMO. As I said, I don't feel like bumping other Ginn threads. 1 on page one is enough for me.
Well, those folks are wrong. I don't think Ginn would have lasted more than 3-5 picks, if that.The 'phins still should have taken Okoye, Willis or Quinn instead.

 
a different point than that of value per actual NFL draft & in dynasty leagues...

no matter which side people find themselves on on, most will agree he is a lot of fun to watch in the open field...

i also like the old school, flipp the ball to the ref after a TD, like barry sanders... he "acts like he's been there before"...

also seems like a good kid that won't change & stop working once he gets that big contract...

while on the subject of draft value, though, the rams were reportedly interested in ginn at #13... it maybe was a smoke screen, & probably STL would have taken carriker anyway (what they told him, for what its worth)... but what if carriker went to SF & rams passed on willis... anderson was gone... they may not have been high on branch (he did fall to 2.01)... probably revis, or possibly a trade down (went one pick later on trade up from jets)... but hypothetically, if ginn had been the pick, it would have been disappointing to not get desperately needed help for DL or secondary... but i would have been OK with the pick... sort of like colts taking gonzalez when there were defensive players on the board that could have helped on that side of the ball... IND was in bottom two in run defense (with STL) during regular season, yet they won super bowl (defense did play better once bob sanders returned for playoffs)... they may give up 24 a game... but they score 30...

i digressed, but if ginn could possibly have gone to STL at 1.13, how big a reach could he really be if he went just a few picks earlier at 1.09? i'm not commenting about his fit with dolphins specifically, but referring more to where he belonged in the first round of the draft... if not top 10 (& that is debateable), it may have been fairly close to this point...

i think another reason pick was panned almost universally is the concern about foot is priced in, & MIA may have been perceived as taking an unnecessary risk... if ginn had scored 2-3 TDs in national championship games, ran a 4.30 or 4.29 at combine (which he might have been capable of), there may have been a LOT less debate about whether he was a top 10-15 echelon talent in this draft...

 
i think another reason pick was panned almost universally is the concern about foot is priced in, & MIA may have been perceived as taking an unnecessary risk... if ginn had scored 2-3 TDs in national championship games, ran a 4.30 or 4.29 at combine (which he might have been capable of), there may have been a LOT less debate about whether he was a top 10-15 echelon talent in this draft...
Maybe. I think a lot of folks had their minds made up about Quinn and Ginn before the draft, and are stubbornly sticking to their evaluations, even in the face of evidence that maybe their pre-draft suppositions were wrong. I can understand why people thought the Fins made a mistake when they passed on Quinn, but as the draft went on, and Quinn continued to fall, it should have occured to people that maybe Quinn wasn't as highly rated as we all thought.I think it's also a byproduct of a few other things:1. The Fins QB situation has been such a horrible joke for so long, it just seemed like such a natural fit. Draft Quinn, who slipped to you, and solve the problem. No more retreads, no more 2nd round picks, no more gimpy CPepps. To a draftnik, it was a no brainer. If everyone knew about the Joe Thomas/Browns deal three weeks ago, alomst every mock would have had Quinn at #9. Maybe some to Minny.2. Ginn is a polarizing figure. Some people think he has no future as a WR. You don't hear such strong negative comments about any of the other top WR prospects. So the combo of passing on such a 'natural fit' for a guy a lot of people didn't like, and you get the backlash.
 
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i think another reason pick was panned almost universally is the concern about foot is priced in, & MIA may have been perceived as taking an unnecessary risk... if ginn had scored 2-3 TDs in national championship games, ran a 4.30 or 4.29 at combine (which he might have been capable of), there may have been a LOT less debate about whether he was a top 10-15 echelon talent in this draft...
Maybe. I think a lot of folks had their minds made up about Quinn and Ginn before the draft, and are stubbornly sticking to their evaluations, even in the face of evidence that maybe their pre-draft suppositions were wrong. I can understand why people thought the Fins made a mistake when they passed on Quinn, but as the draft went on, and Quinn continued to fall, it should have occured to people that maybe Quinn wasn't as highly rated as we all thought.I think it's also a byproduct of a few other things:

1. The Fins QB situation has been such a horrible joke for so long, it just seemed like such a natural fit. Draft Quinn, who slipped to you, and solve the problem. No more retreads, no more 2nd round picks, no more gimpy CPepps. To a draftnik, it was a no brainer. If everyone knew about the Joe Thomas/Browns deal three weeks ago, alomst every mock would have had Quinn at #9. Maybe some to Minny.

2. Ginn is a polarizing figure. Some people think he has no future as a WR. You don't hear such strong negative comments about any of the other top WR prospects.

So the combo of passing on such a 'natural fit' for a guy a lot of people didn't like, and you get the backlash.
I caught R. Lande on the radio last night. It is pretty clear that guy, as they say, knows people. Lande said he fully expected to see Quinn fall to Kansas City, as did several of his NFL contacts, if/when Quinn slipped by Miami. His point was that people in the "know" were not shocked...at all...about Quinn dropping. Also, Lande said the Panthers had informed K. Johnson he was being cut prior to the NFL draft. Somehow Lande had found himself the Tuesday before the draft. That is really odd considering the coverage K. Johnson provided for ESPN on Draft Day.

As far as Ginn and the Dolphins, I think that team would have been advised to take a defensive player/difference maker. Taylor and Thomas are not getting any younger and there were some excellent prospects available at DE and LB. If in fact what Lande stated is true and the Dolphins had Quinn and Beck rated that closely together, I do agree on taking a impact player, first, and grabbing your QB in the 2nd round, assuming the QB grades are that close. Conversely, I disagree with the impact player the Dolphins elected to take.

I wish Ginn a speedy recovery but I just do not see him becoming a player worthy of a Top 10 pick.

 
Wow Family Matters, you are in serious defense mode.
Seems alot are bashing Ginn and making comments that really don't add up. MAking comparisons to Warrick are naive in knowing what kind of player Ginn is.So I'm just trying to help the Fins fans out a bit. I really don't care much about the Dolphins so it's no sweat off my back if they win or lose. But they're going to really happy about Ginn in a few years. But for some reason, without a single snap being played, many are predicting total doom. I just find that amazing.
I hate the pick.I do not predict doom for Ginn as a player, but I still dislike the pick.The absolute best he can do is live up to exactly what the 'phins thought they got, which would be a game breaking WR who is a spark plug in the return game. If they got early career Steve Smith out of this draft, they'll have a great player on their squad - you can't coach speed, which is why you draft it high.That said, he will never be the face of the franchise, he has a tremendous uphill battle for fan support, they had bigger needs in other areas, and he can not single handedly turn the offense around unless you really believe he is a Randy Moss/Terrel Owens type. And I don't think anyone has those kind of illusions.Much greater effect on the W-L column for the phins would have been an impact LB, impact DT, QB, or even a future 10-year stalwart on the OL.With this injury news, he is not as likely to have an impact this year and he could have recurring problems (unless I misunderstand the nature of the Lis Franc injury). A team in the phins' situation spent a #9 on a taller Steve Smith? Steve Smith was a third round pick. Crappy pick for the fins, IMO, even if you feel Ginn is a top-10 talent.On the flip side, he is a great kid, eminently coachable, he has a ton of measurable talent, he will be even better for the 'phins return game than Welker was, he could definitely evolve into a top-10 fantasy WR, and a player with that kind of speed can always get separation and command a safety's attention (something even Chris Chambers has had problems with).In all, draft all the speedy receivers you want (Chambers aint no speed slouch), but if noone is behind center to throw them the ball and if the guy behind the center lacks the time to get the ball downfield, what good is being wide open downfield?
You're right on the money here. I also like Ginn but he just doesn't make sense for where the Dolphins currently are. They have serious holes at QB and O line and most of their core defensive players are getting a little old. With far more important areas of need than WR a pick like Ginn just doesn't add up. The Dolphins have not been run well for awhile now. They were once one of the most stable franchises in the NFL but right now they are headed in the wrong direction. IMO this franchise is in a position where the other franchises in their division are far better run and I can really see some very rough waters for the Dolphins in the near future.
I'm not a Dolphins fan, but I think they were in a difficult spot when Levi Brown came off the board. I could see the logic passing on Quinn, I don't think he was necessarily worthy of a top 3 pick as many had pimped him as and I don't think he was worth it at #9. Ginn looks really impressive in the open field and can get back into top gear quickly after making a move on a defender. If they really wanted Ginn, I don't think Houston was going to pick him at #10, to me that is the Dolphins brass trying to quell the fans' outrage over the pick. They should have taken Okoye at #9. If they wanted Ginn, I feel they could have gotten him a little lower.Once Trent Green comes on board, this pick should sting a little less for Miami fans.
 
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more background on ginn...

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/dolphins/cont...phins_0506.html

Ginn determined to succeed

By Edgar Thompson

Palm Beach Post Staff Writer

Sunday, May 06, 2007

Even Miami Dolphins rookie wide receiver Ted Ginn Jr.'s superhuman speed can't help him escape the tight spot he's in.

Stuck on a frustrating path of doubt and injury since he last played nearly four months ago, Ginn can't seem to put those problems behind him.

For the first time in his athletic life, Ginn is ordinary - a word not befitting a No. 9 draft pick.

Ginn has always been able to turn heads with big plays, but since spraining his foot in the BCS title game in January, critics have been able to match him stride for stride.

They say he's not durable enough, too small and doesn't have enough experience as a receiver.

"You can't appreciate it until you're around it all the time," said Darrell Hazell, Ginn's receivers coach at Ohio State. "You might see a couple of clips here and there, but when you see it over and over and over again, you understand.

"When you study Ted, he's a freak."

Hazell's not alone. Those who have seen Ginn blossom from a two-sport All-America in high school to an NCAA record-setter guarantee he'll make people forget Brady Quinn, the ex-Notre Dame quarterback nearly everyone outside the Dolphins' draft room assumed was bound for South Florida.

Take Terry Robiskie, the Dolphins' receivers coach who has followed Ginn's career for five or six years. The past two seasons, Robiskie has seen every Ohio State game and roughly 90 percent of the team's practice films because his son Brian also has played for the Buckeyes the past two seasons.

At the risk of South Florida sacrilege, Robiskie offers an opinion of Ginn he thinks fans will understand.

"He has Mark Clayton's speed and Nat Moore's quickness," Robiskie said, referencing two Dolphins stars. "You might want to get a Coke or might want to go to the bathroom ... you can't do that with this kid. He might score."

Former Washington Redskins quarterback Joe Theismann doesn't think Ginn's size (5-foot-11, 178 pounds) will hinder him. After all, Theismann threw touchdown passes during Super Bowl XVII to a couple of diminutive receivers, Alvin Garrett and Charlie Brown, known as the "Smurfs."

"To me, the smaller wide receivers are terrific slot guys. They get separation, they get into the holes quicker," Theismann said. "It makes it easier visually for me to throw the football."

But the Dolphins drafted Ginn to do much more than simply line up in the slot or return kicks.

Even though Ginn is sidelined indefinitely with a mid-foot sprain suffered in an end-zone pile-up after returning the opening kickoff of the national title game for a touchdown, the soft-spoken 22-year-old is ready to prove his doubters wrong.

"If I do what the team asks, I think the fans will come around and say, 'Hey, this was a great pick. This is what we needed,''" Ginn said. "You won't hear no more Brady Quinn."

With Ginn, it might not take too long to find out.

Let Butch Reynolds, the world-record holder in the 400-meter dash from 1988 to 1999, give an idea of Ginn's running ability.

A two-time Olympic medalist in 1988 and current Buckeyes speed coach, Reynolds said Ginn would have made one of the U.S. relay teams in 2004.

With training, Reynolds said this week, Ginn, ranked No. 1 in the nation in the 110-meter hurdles his final two years in high school, could run the 400 in the 44-second range.

"He has world-class speed," he said. "And when you're world-class, you can make things happen."

Ginn made enough things happen at Ohio State to generate pre-season Heisman buzz the past two seasons.

Ginn's three-touchdown performance (rushing, punt return and receiving) as a freshman at Michigan State put him on the map. A 68-yard end-around and 56-yard catch against Notre Dame in the 2006 Fiesta Bowl made Ginn a household name.

In college, Ginn caught passes, ran reverses and returned eight kicks for touchdowns, which tied an NCAA career record. He even threw a 44-yard touchdown pass.

First-year coach Cam Cameron once coached a quarterback at Indiana, who's now Washington's No. 2 receiver.

"There is some uniqueness there and a lot of similarities," Cameron said of Randle El and Ginn. "They are almost carbon copies. It's almost scary."

Still, the file on Ginn - like his lean build - wasn't thick enough to entice many NFL teams holding top-10 picks.

Handcuffed by a conservative Ohio State attack and undivided attention from defenses, Ginn touched the ball an average of 41/2 times from scrimmage in 36 games.

He disappeared as often as he dominated.

In a victory last season at Texas, Ginn caught five passes for 97 yards, including a 46-yard play where he burned cornerback Aaron Ross, the No. 20 pick last weekend by the New York Giants. In a home loss to the Longhorns a season earlier, Ginn had a combined 7 yards on two catches and one carry.

Until Ginn proves he's even better than a player like Randle El, the 62nd pick in 2002, he'll have to answer his critics.

Many wonder if Ginn can play the game he did in college, touch the ball more and hold up to a 16-game NFL schedule.

"Football is football," said Dolphins receiver Az-Zahir Hakim, a nine-year veteran who entered the league as a returner and receiver. "It's how much you want to get on the field."

Ginn's mind is ready to go. His body isn't.

He can wait.

Because once he's on the field, Ginn might be one of the few people fast enough to make up for lost time.

"I just love to play the game," he said. "I put a lot of heart behind it. I go in with a lot of competitiveness and try to show it every time I touch the ball."

 
Last edited by a moderator:
more background on ginn...

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/dolphins/cont...phins_0506.html

Ginn determined to succeed

By Edgar Thompson

Palm Beach Post Staff Writer

Sunday, May 06, 2007

Even Miami Dolphins rookie wide receiver Ted Ginn Jr.'s superhuman speed can't help him escape the tight spot he's in.

Stuck on a frustrating path of doubt and injury since he last played nearly four months ago, Ginn can't seem to put those problems behind him.

For the first time in his athletic life, Ginn is ordinary - a word not befitting a No. 9 draft pick.

Ginn has always been able to turn heads with big plays, but since spraining his foot in the BCS title game in January, critics have been able to match him stride for stride.

They say he's not durable enough, too small and doesn't have enough experience as a receiver.

"You can't appreciate it until you're around it all the time," said Darrell Hazell, Ginn's receivers coach at Ohio State. "You might see a couple of clips here and there, but when you see it over and over and over again, you understand.

"When you study Ted, he's a freak."

Hazell's not alone. Those who have seen Ginn blossom from a two-sport All-America in high school to an NCAA record-setter guarantee he'll make people forget Brady Quinn, the ex-Notre Dame quarterback nearly everyone outside the Dolphins' draft room assumed was bound for South Florida.

Take Terry Robiskie, the Dolphins' receivers coach who has followed Ginn's career for five or six years. The past two seasons, Robiskie has seen every Ohio State game and roughly 90 percent of the team's practice films because his son Brian also has played for the Buckeyes the past two seasons.

At the risk of South Florida sacrilege, Robiskie offers an opinion of Ginn he thinks fans will understand.

"He has Mark Clayton's speed and Nat Moore's quickness," Robiskie said, referencing two Dolphins stars. "You might want to get a Coke or might want to go to the bathroom ... you can't do that with this kid. He might score."

Former Washington Redskins quarterback Joe Theismann doesn't think Ginn's size (5-foot-11, 178 pounds) will hinder him. After all, Theismann threw touchdown passes during Super Bowl XVII to a couple of diminutive receivers, Alvin Garrett and Charlie Brown, known as the "Smurfs."

"To me, the smaller wide receivers are terrific slot guys. They get separation, they get into the holes quicker," Theismann said. "It makes it easier visually for me to throw the football."

But the Dolphins drafted Ginn to do much more than simply line up in the slot or return kicks.

Even though Ginn is sidelined indefinitely with a mid-foot sprain suffered in an end-zone pile-up after returning the opening kickoff of the national title game for a touchdown, the soft-spoken 22-year-old is ready to prove his doubters wrong.

"If I do what the team asks, I think the fans will come around and say, 'Hey, this was a great pick. This is what we needed,''" Ginn said. "You won't hear no more Brady Quinn."

With Ginn, it might not take too long to find out.

Let Butch Reynolds, the world-record holder in the 400-meter dash from 1988 to 1999, give an idea of Ginn's running ability.

A two-time Olympic medalist in 1988 and current Buckeyes speed coach, Reynolds said Ginn would have made one of the U.S. relay teams in 2004.

With training, Reynolds said this week, Ginn, ranked No. 1 in the nation in the 110-meter hurdles his final two years in high school, could run the 400 in the 44-second range.

"He has world-class speed," he said. "And when you're world-class, you can make things happen."

Ginn made enough things happen at Ohio State to generate pre-season Heisman buzz the past two seasons.

Ginn's three-touchdown performance (rushing, punt return and receiving) as a freshman at Michigan State put him on the map. A 68-yard end-around and 56-yard catch against Notre Dame in the 2006 Fiesta Bowl made Ginn a household name.

In college, Ginn caught passes, ran reverses and returned eight kicks for touchdowns, which tied an NCAA career record. He even threw a 44-yard touchdown pass.

First-year coach Cam Cameron once coached a quarterback at Indiana, who's now Washington's No. 2 receiver.

"There is some uniqueness there and a lot of similarities," Cameron said of Randle El and Ginn. "They are almost carbon copies. It's almost scary."

Still, the file on Ginn - like his lean build - wasn't thick enough to entice many NFL teams holding top-10 picks.

Handcuffed by a conservative Ohio State attack and undivided attention from defenses, Ginn touched the ball an average of 41/2 times from scrimmage in 36 games.

He disappeared as often as he dominated.

In a victory last season at Texas, Ginn caught five passes for 97 yards, including a 46-yard play where he burned cornerback Aaron Ross, the No. 20 pick last weekend by the New York Giants. In a home loss to the Longhorns a season earlier, Ginn had a combined 7 yards on two catches and one carry.

Until Ginn proves he's even better than a player like Randle El, the 62nd pick in 2002, he'll have to answer his critics.

Many wonder if Ginn can play the game he did in college, touch the ball more and hold up to a 16-game NFL schedule.

"Football is football," said Dolphins receiver Az-Zahir Hakim, a nine-year veteran who entered the league as a returner and receiver. "It's how much you want to get on the field."

Ginn's mind is ready to go. His body isn't.

He can wait.

Because once he's on the field, Ginn might be one of the few people fast enough to make up for lost time.

"I just love to play the game," he said. "I put a lot of heart behind it. I go in with a lot of competitiveness and try to show it every time I touch the ball."
it doesn't pay to be a FF diehard during May-July, because all we get to read is puff pastry like this . . .
 
the substantive items i took out of an admittedly mostly puff piece...

MIA WR positional coach terry robiskie's son played with ginn at ohio state, so he may have greater insight into all aspects of his prospects (intangibles as well as the obvious tangibles) through that connection... he also wasn't talking about him as a kick returner but compared him to some dolphins receiving greats...

also didn't know that buckeyes track coach is butch reynolds, former 400 m record holder, & that he thought ginn would have been on the olympic relay team...

 

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