Ted Ginn (1 Viewer)

[Chaos Commish]

Well, not really I think the (original) question still stands, is a guy who can run two routes,

Mayock has been funny if you followed him on Ginn since December. December - "He's a guy that just runs a Go. That's it."January - "He runs hitches and Gos. That's it."February - "All they do with Ginn is Hitches, Gos and Slants. That's it."March - "Ginn runs Hitches, Gos, Slants and Crossing Patterns. That's it."April - "Watch Ginn run this hook. He needs to come back to the ball there. That's not a good route. I like how he gets both feet down beyond the chains on this out pattern though." Another out pattern with the corner sprawling about in the background. He slides that crossing pattern up the field into a wicked post by the way, and his highlights have a sweet out and up in there somewhere, then there's a double move to the flag for six (and a corner running the post all by himself).

 

[Bonzai]

Well, not really I think the (original) question still stands, is a guy who can run two routes,

Mayock has been funny if you followed him on Ginn since December. December - "He's a guy that just runs a Go. That's it."January - "He runs hitches and Gos. That's it."February - "All they do with Ginn is Hitches, Gos and Slants. That's it."March - "Ginn runs Hitches, Gos, Slants and Crossing Patterns. That's it."April - "Watch Ginn run this hook. He needs to come back to the ball there. That's not a good route. I like how he gets both feet down beyond the chains on this out pattern though." Another out pattern with the corner sprawling about in the background. He slides that crossing pattern up the field into a wicked post by the way, and his highlights have a sweet out and up in there somewhere, then there's a double move to the flag for six (and a corner running the post all by himself).

 

[Sean Baca]

Well, not really I think the (original) question still stands, is a guy who can run two routes,

Mayock has been funny if you followed him on Ginn since December. December - "He's a guy that just runs a Go. That's it."January - "He runs hitches and Gos. That's it."February - "All they do with Ginn is Hitches, Gos and Slants. That's it."March - "Ginn runs Hitches, Gos, Slants and Crossing Patterns. That's it."April - "Watch Ginn run this hook. He needs to come back to the ball there. That's not a good route. I like how he gets both feet down beyond the chains on this out pattern though." Another out pattern with the corner sprawling about in the background. He slides that crossing pattern up the field into a wicked post by the way, and his highlights have a sweet out and up in there somewhere, then there's a double move to the flag for six (and a corner running the post all by himself).

no I hadn't seen that but it seems like that's what I'm doing with him. I just cannot get a feel for the guy as a reciever. With a guy like him I think he could be one of two things. All-pro or punt returner. That is where I have trouble when guaging him.

 

[duaneok66]

The bolded sentence represents my biggest drawback with Ginn, outside of the obvious size concerns. The really small NFL WRs that have excelled (Smith, Moss, Harrison) have lightning quickness to create seperation. I really haven't seen that with Ginn. I don't see that lateral sudden-ness and fluidity that the Smiths and Moss' have.

Didn't watch the highlights huh. I'd say at least 8 of the highlights on that real contradict what you are saying here.

My opus on Ginn is in the mock I am working on, but I have never... ever... seen a man separate like him. His quicks are different than Moss and Steve Smith, who are like Barry Sanders with the lateral stuff. I would argue he is very similar to Harrison in that regard, both track guys, both quick, both not prone to juking. Near the end of those highlights you see a corner fall when Ginn breaks in the endzone for an easy TD. You can find two other corners falling on Ginn breaks in different highlight reels, and I have vivid memory of a couple others. Gentlemen, if corners are falling down against Ginn, he is running sweet routes. It is pretty simple. I was hard on Holmes last year in part because Ginn was always doubled and still outproducing him late in the season, and Family Matters and I both discussed the great improvement in Ginn's route running a year ago.

You're right and I remember that discussion well. You make some great points here and I know this goes without saying but you can't teach speed. What can be taught is route running and he's learned well IMO. I really don't know what else he could have done to improve. And considering he was doubled often his performance is even more impressive. I do know that some of the guys he played big against are going to be high draft picks this weekend. There's no reason to think he won't be even better with a couple more years of NFL training.

You need more than this . . . if the guy is a hard worker, if he is intelligent, if he is a film junkie, etc., then you may be able to make that leap . . . problem is that a lot of GMs assume this for the majority of players; this assumption gets many coaches fired . . .

 

[Family Matters]

The bolded sentence represents my biggest drawback with Ginn, outside of the obvious size concerns. The really small NFL WRs that have excelled (Smith, Moss, Harrison) have lightning quickness to create seperation. I really haven't seen that with Ginn. I don't see that lateral sudden-ness and fluidity that the Smiths and Moss' have.

Didn't watch the highlights huh. I'd say at least 8 of the highlights on that real contradict what you are saying here.

My opus on Ginn is in the mock I am working on, but I have never... ever... seen a man separate like him. His quicks are different than Moss and Steve Smith, who are like Barry Sanders with the lateral stuff. I would argue he is very similar to Harrison in that regard, both track guys, both quick, both not prone to juking. Near the end of those highlights you see a corner fall when Ginn breaks in the endzone for an easy TD. You can find two other corners falling on Ginn breaks in different highlight reels, and I have vivid memory of a couple others. Gentlemen, if corners are falling down against Ginn, he is running sweet routes. It is pretty simple. I was hard on Holmes last year in part because Ginn was always doubled and still outproducing him late in the season, and Family Matters and I both discussed the great improvement in Ginn's route running a year ago.

You're right and I remember that discussion well. You make some great points here and I know this goes without saying but you can't teach speed. What can be taught is route running and he's learned well IMO. I really don't know what else he could have done to improve. And considering he was doubled often his performance is even more impressive. I do know that some of the guys he played big against are going to be high draft picks this weekend. There's no reason to think he won't be even better with a couple more years of NFL training.

I agree that he has learned to run better routes but in every route that is not a crossing, vertical or hitch route, he runs them at an ordinary speed. When he has the ball in his hands he is as good as anyone I have ever seen and as CC said, he seperates like nobody else. The only guy I've ever seen who could seperate like him is Bo Jackson and I have NEVER said that about a player before. But my question about him is can he lose NFL corners on routes other than the three I mentioned or will he need to be game planned for and only be of great offensive value on "seven step drop" types of routes? and if not is he a first round draft pick as a return man who can be good when the QB gets time to throw the long routes?

If he can lose corners on long routes, and can seperate like Bo then why wouldn't he able to catch a short pass and lose the corner? I think you answered your own question. Guys that are fast and can seperate are totally dangerous. Route runnimg can be learned and he's learned well the last 2 years so I really think he's got what it takes. There hasn't been anything to suggest he can't. What were area of concern before have been getting addressed.

Well, not really I think the (original) question still stands, is a guy who can run two routes, a better option than the other WR's that are in the draft? The Tampa Two defense is taylor made to stop a guy like Ginn. Yes I think his seperation is unreal but if you can sit on just few routes then coverage becomes easy. I am not asking if Ginn will be any good in the NFL, of course a guy with his talents and speed will be good. The question was will his speed get him drafted above the others in his draft class and more to the point in the first round.

If I'm drafting then my approach is long term. I realize what he's accomplished in just 3 years and how much he will likely accomplish in the next 2-5 years. With that in mind, yes he's the #2 WR. But if I'm only thinking about the first 1-2 years then I could talk myself into other possibilities.

 

[Family Matters]

The bolded sentence represents my biggest drawback with Ginn, outside of the obvious size concerns. The really small NFL WRs that have excelled (Smith, Moss, Harrison) have lightning quickness to create seperation. I really haven't seen that with Ginn. I don't see that lateral sudden-ness and fluidity that the Smiths and Moss' have.

Didn't watch the highlights huh. I'd say at least 8 of the highlights on that real contradict what you are saying here.

My opus on Ginn is in the mock I am working on, but I have never... ever... seen a man separate like him. His quicks are different than Moss and Steve Smith, who are like Barry Sanders with the lateral stuff. I would argue he is very similar to Harrison in that regard, both track guys, both quick, both not prone to juking. Near the end of those highlights you see a corner fall when Ginn breaks in the endzone for an easy TD. You can find two other corners falling on Ginn breaks in different highlight reels, and I have vivid memory of a couple others. Gentlemen, if corners are falling down against Ginn, he is running sweet routes. It is pretty simple. I was hard on Holmes last year in part because Ginn was always doubled and still outproducing him late in the season, and Family Matters and I both discussed the great improvement in Ginn's route running a year ago.

You're right and I remember that discussion well. You make some great points here and I know this goes without saying but you can't teach speed. What can be taught is route running and he's learned well IMO. I really don't know what else he could have done to improve. And considering he was doubled often his performance is even more impressive. I do know that some of the guys he played big against are going to be high draft picks this weekend. There's no reason to think he won't be even better with a couple more years of NFL training.

You need more than this . . . if the guy is a hard worker, if he is intelligent, if he is a film junkie, etc., then you may be able to make that leap . . . problem is that a lot of GMs assume this for the majority of players; this assumption gets many coaches fired . . .

Trust me, there's more than this. His work habits are 2nd to none. He is a student of the game and that's why he's progressed so quickly. They say WR is 1 of the most difficult positions to learn. If that's true then he must be working hard to accomplish wjat he has. If he stayed, then he likely would've broken a few WR records set at OSU. And that's quite a compliment. Consider some from the past:

Holmes

Glenn

Galloway

Carter

Boston

Jenkins

Gonzalez

He's among some nice company and that's with a solid WR he had to share the load with.

 

[jurb26]

The bolded sentence represents my biggest drawback with Ginn, outside of the obvious size concerns. The really small NFL WRs that have excelled (Smith, Moss, Harrison) have lightning quickness to create seperation. I really haven't seen that with Ginn. I don't see that lateral sudden-ness and fluidity that the Smiths and Moss' have.

Didn't watch the highlights huh. I'd say at least 8 of the highlights on that real contradict what you are saying here.

My opus on Ginn is in the mock I am working on, but I have never... ever... seen a man separate like him. His quicks are different than Moss and Steve Smith, who are like Barry Sanders with the lateral stuff. I would argue he is very similar to Harrison in that regard, both track guys, both quick, both not prone to juking. Near the end of those highlights you see a corner fall when Ginn breaks in the endzone for an easy TD. You can find two other corners falling on Ginn breaks in different highlight reels, and I have vivid memory of a couple others. Gentlemen, if corners are falling down against Ginn, he is running sweet routes. It is pretty simple. I was hard on Holmes last year in part because Ginn was always doubled and still outproducing him late in the season, and Family Matters and I both discussed the great improvement in Ginn's route running a year ago.

You're right and I remember that discussion well. You make some great points here and I know this goes without saying but you can't teach speed. What can be taught is route running and he's learned well IMO. I really don't know what else he could have done to improve. And considering he was doubled often his performance is even more impressive. I do know that some of the guys he played big against are going to be high draft picks this weekend. There's no reason to think he won't be even better with a couple more years of NFL training.

You need more than this . . . if the guy is a hard worker, if he is intelligent, if he is a film junkie, etc., then you may be able to make that leap . . . problem is that a lot of GMs assume this for the majority of players; this assumption gets many coaches fired . . .

Trust me, there's more than this. His work habits are 2nd to none. He is a student of the game and that's why he's progressed so quickly. They say WR is 1 of the most difficult positions to learn. If that's true then he must be working hard to accomplish wjat he has. If he stayed, then he likely would've broken a few WR records set at OSU. And that's quite a compliment. Consider some from the past:

Holmes

Glenn

Galloway

Carter

Boston

Jenkins

Gonzalez

He's among some nice company and that's with a solid WR he had to share the load with.

Shuuuush. Let the slide continue.

 

[Alluro]

Fastest player in pads to ever enter the NFL...FASTEST PLAYER EVER

 

[bjabrad]

I haven't seen the guy play but all this talk about quickness, return specialist, 6-0 WR, etc... makes me think of a taller Wes Welker or Dante Hall.

Seems to me that the Patriots overpaid Miami in order to get Welker and I'm guessing it's because the Patriots put a high value on guys that that are versatile in playing more than one position. If this is true then Ginn is being undervalued by most of the people on this board,,,but then if I'm wrong then you guys are all smarter than the Patriots.

 

[sho nuff]

Id be shocked if the Titans do not take him if he is available at that pick.

 

[waylander]

I'm a Titans fan, and up until this thread was kind of hoping against it. Now reading some thoughts on here and watching some highlights kinda has me hoping for him. The reason is, Vince Young. I think the other WR's are going to be great picks, and obviously CJ doesn't fall to 19. So if his route running, and gaining seperation laterally from DB's is his biggest draw back, then coupling him with a young mobile QB, Vince, would be ideal for him.

The truth is, as far as I can tell, that every time he has the ball, he has a legitimate chance of scoring, and I don't know what other WR's in the draft I can say that about. So, if Young can buy him an extra second or two, he could be 10 yards behind the nearest defender. Not to mention his value as a returner.

 

[cstu]

I believe Ginn would be the lightest starting WR in the NFL at 5-11, 178. He's not that far off from some big name WR's but he does need to bulk up.

Santana Moss - 5-10, 185

Steve Smith - 5-9, 185

Harrison - 6-0, 185

Bruce - 6-0, 188

S. Holmes - 5-11, 189

Holt - 6-0, 190

Driver - 6-0, 190

 

[bjabrad]

I believe Ginn would be the lightest starting WR in the NFL at 5-11, 178. He's not that far off from some big name WR's but he does need to bulk up.Santana Moss - 5-10, 185Steve Smith - 5-9, 185Harrison - 6-0, 185Bruce - 6-0, 188S. Holmes - 5-11, 189Holt - 6-0, 190Driver - 6-0, 190

Nice list. I guess it indicates that lighter is quicker/faster is better for WR's. And we can use Mike Williams as a case for the opposite of a light/quick WR which is why he took so long to see the field.

 

[Family Matters]

I believe Ginn would be the lightest starting WR in the NFL at 5-11, 178. He's not that far off from some big name WR's but he does need to bulk up.Santana Moss - 5-10, 185Steve Smith - 5-9, 185Harrison - 6-0, 185Bruce - 6-0, 188S. Holmes - 5-11, 189Holt - 6-0, 190Driver - 6-0, 190

Size does play a role because they still have to take a hit. But since the NFL changed they way they enforce the no contact rule, size has been less of an issue. That's why NE had so much success with their smurfs. The opportunities are better for smaller WR's now than say 5 years ago.Adding weight should be doable. He's still just a Jr. so he should still be adding some muscle.

 

[EBF]

One of the most impressive skill position athletes in the draft. Don't know if he'll be a star at the next level, but he's no Troy Williamson. He's much more fluid. He's only WR4 on my board, but I think he has a chance to become a Joey Galloway type player at the next level. Lots of upside here. More risk than many of the other top WRs though.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Ted Ginn - 34/420/2

Anthony Gonzalez - 37/576/3

Ginn had Lemon & Beck. Gonzalez has Manning.

Ginn had 1,433 kickoff return yards at an average of 22.7 yards per return. He also added 230 punt return yards and took one back for a touchdown.

Yet many people are talking about Gonzalez's remarkable rookie season but Ginn still gets dogged.

Could the Dophins have gone another direction with the #9 pick? Probably. They could have gone ANYWHERE with the pick and gotten better. But Ginn is obviously talented and will only get better and the Dolphins got what they were hoping for.

 

[az_prof]

Ted Ginn - 34/420/2Anthony Gonzalez - 37/576/3Ginn had Lemon & Beck. Gonzalez has Manning. Ginn had 1,433 kickoff return yards at an average of 22.7 yards per return. He also added 230 punt return yards and took one back for a touchdown. Yet many people are talking about Gonzalez's remarkable rookie season but Ginn still gets dogged.Could the Dophins have gone another direction with the #9 pick? Probably. They could have gone ANYWHERE with the pick and gotten better. But Ginn is obviously talented and will only get better and the Dolphins got what they were hoping for.

I don't know how good Ginn will be, but I have seen enough to think that he will be good and the comparison with Gonzalez is completely unfair given the offense and QB that Gonzalez had.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Ted Ginn - 34/420/2Anthony Gonzalez - 37/576/3Ginn had Lemon & Beck. Gonzalez has Manning. Ginn had 1,433 kickoff return yards at an average of 22.7 yards per return. He also added 230 punt return yards and took one back for a touchdown. Yet many people are talking about Gonzalez's remarkable rookie season but Ginn still gets dogged.Could the Dophins have gone another direction with the #9 pick? Probably. They could have gone ANYWHERE with the pick and gotten better. But Ginn is obviously talented and will only get better and the Dolphins got what they were hoping for.

I don't know how good Ginn will be, but I have seen enough to think that he will be good and the comparison with Gonzalez is completely unfair given the offense and QB that Gonzalez had.

You're missing my point. I'm just comparing him to Gonzalez because so many people seem impressed by what he did as a rookie but don't give Ginn any credit for what he did even though he had FAR less to work with.I'm one that said that Ginn (and Gonzalez too) was a GOOD pick and I think he proved it this year.

 

[Warpig]

Ted Ginn - 34/420/2Anthony Gonzalez - 37/576/3Ginn had Lemon & Beck. Gonzalez has Manning. Ginn had 1,433 kickoff return yards at an average of 22.7 yards per return. He also added 230 punt return yards and took one back for a touchdown. Yet many people are talking about Gonzalez's remarkable rookie season but Ginn still gets dogged.Could the Dophins have gone another direction with the #9 pick? Probably. They could have gone ANYWHERE with the pick and gotten better. But Ginn is obviously talented and will only get better and the Dolphins got what they were hoping for.

I don't know how good Ginn will be, but I have seen enough to think that he will be good and the comparison with Gonzalez is completely unfair given the offense and QB that Gonzalez had.

You're missing my point. I'm just comparing him to Gonzalez because so many people seem impressed by what he did as a rookie but don't give Ginn any credit for what he did even though he had FAR less to work with.I'm one that said that Ginn (and Gonzalez too) was a GOOD pick and I think he proved it this year.

I own them both in a 32 team dynasty so I like my future But I'm interested in comparing their playing time. Did Ginn play the whole year? Wasn't Gonzalez kinda eased along as the season wore on? That may be something to consider when comparing their numbers. Also, I don't think Gonzalez was used as a kick/punt returner so Ginn would hold some more value there, but I think the numbers Ginn put up as a returner were pretty average at best. I am however excited about his future now that Parcells is in town and hopefully an improvement at OC and HC.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I own them both in a 32 team dynasty so I like my future

But I'm interested in comparing their playing time. Did Ginn play the whole year? Wasn't Gonzalez kinda eased along as the season wore on? That may be something to consider when comparing their numbers. Also, I don't think Gonzalez was used as a kick/punt returner so Ginn would hold some more value there, but I think the numbers Ginn put up as a returner were pretty average at best. I am however excited about his future now that Parcells is in town and hopefully an improvement at OC and HC.

Ginn was eased in too. He played sporadically until about midway through the season. He had three or more catches in six of the last seven games (Baltimore).Compare how you will to Gonzalez game logs.

 

[jurb26]

Ted Ginn - 34/420/2Anthony Gonzalez - 37/576/3Ginn had Lemon & Beck. Gonzalez has Manning. Ginn had 1,433 kickoff return yards at an average of 22.7 yards per return. He also added 230 punt return yards and took one back for a touchdown. Yet many people are talking about Gonzalez's remarkable rookie season but Ginn still gets dogged.Could the Dophins have gone another direction with the #9 pick? Probably. They could have gone ANYWHERE with the pick and gotten better. But Ginn is obviously talented and will only get better and the Dolphins got what they were hoping for.

Ginn's future is bright.

 

[FUBAR]

I own them both in a 32 team dynasty so I like my future

But I'm interested in comparing their playing time. Did Ginn play the whole year? Wasn't Gonzalez kinda eased along as the season wore on? That may be something to consider when comparing their numbers. Also, I don't think Gonzalez was used as a kick/punt returner so Ginn would hold some more value there, but I think the numbers Ginn put up as a returner were pretty average at best. I am however excited about his future now that Parcells is in town and hopefully an improvement at OC and HC.

Ginn was eased in too. He played sporadically until about midway through the season. He had three or more catches in six of the last seven games (Baltimore).Compare how you will to Gonzalez game logs.

One big difference is the Dolphins needed Ginn, yet didn't play him quickly. His best game was 67 yards and his average, for a guy supposed to be a deep threat was 12.4 y/c. Gonzalez wasn't needed the first 4 games, was injured and still had 4 games better than any Ginn produced. He also had a 15.6 y/c average. Obviously a lot of this is Peyton Manning, but if you want me to compare Gonzalez's performance to Ginn's based on stats as a WR, it isn't close.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I own them both in a 32 team dynasty so I like my future

But I'm interested in comparing their playing time. Did Ginn play the whole year? Wasn't Gonzalez kinda eased along as the season wore on? That may be something to consider when comparing their numbers. Also, I don't think Gonzalez was used as a kick/punt returner so Ginn would hold some more value there, but I think the numbers Ginn put up as a returner were pretty average at best. I am however excited about his future now that Parcells is in town and hopefully an improvement at OC and HC.

Ginn was eased in too. He played sporadically until about midway through the season. He had three or more catches in six of the last seven games (Baltimore).Compare how you will to Gonzalez game logs.

One big difference is the Dolphins needed Ginn, yet didn't play him quickly. His best game was 67 yards and his average, for a guy supposed to be a deep threat was 12.4 y/c. Gonzalez wasn't needed the first 4 games, was injured and still had 4 games better than any Ginn produced. He also had a 15.6 y/c average. Obviously a lot of this is Peyton Manning, but if you want me to compare Gonzalez's performance to Ginn's based on stats as a WR, it isn't close.

Put Ginn on the Colts and you'd be saying the same thing about him as you are about Gonzalez.AG played on one of the best teams in the league, and not just at the QB spot, and we all know what Ginn had.

 

[jurb26]

I own them both in a 32 team dynasty so I like my future

But I'm interested in comparing their playing time. Did Ginn play the whole year? Wasn't Gonzalez kinda eased along as the season wore on? That may be something to consider when comparing their numbers. Also, I don't think Gonzalez was used as a kick/punt returner so Ginn would hold some more value there, but I think the numbers Ginn put up as a returner were pretty average at best. I am however excited about his future now that Parcells is in town and hopefully an improvement at OC and HC.

Ginn was eased in too. He played sporadically until about midway through the season. He had three or more catches in six of the last seven games (Baltimore).Compare how you will to Gonzalez game logs.

One big difference is the Dolphins needed Ginn, yet didn't play him quickly. His best game was 67 yards and his average, for a guy supposed to be a deep threat was 12.4 y/c. Gonzalez wasn't needed the first 4 games, was injured and still had 4 games better than any Ginn produced. He also had a 15.6 y/c average. Obviously a lot of this is Peyton Manning, but if you want me to compare Gonzalez's performance to Ginn's based on stats as a WR, it isn't close.

Put Ginn on the Colts and you'd be saying the same thing about him as you are about Gonzalez.AG played on one of the best teams in the league, and not just at the QB spot, and we all know what Ginn had.

If you put Ginn on the Colts, he blows Gonzalez's numbers away.

 

[FUBAR]

I own them both in a 32 team dynasty so I like my future

But I'm interested in comparing their playing time. Did Ginn play the whole year? Wasn't Gonzalez kinda eased along as the season wore on? That may be something to consider when comparing their numbers. Also, I don't think Gonzalez was used as a kick/punt returner so Ginn would hold some more value there, but I think the numbers Ginn put up as a returner were pretty average at best. I am however excited about his future now that Parcells is in town and hopefully an improvement at OC and HC.

Ginn was eased in too. He played sporadically until about midway through the season. He had three or more catches in six of the last seven games (Baltimore).Compare how you will to Gonzalez game logs.

One big difference is the Dolphins needed Ginn, yet didn't play him quickly. His best game was 67 yards and his average, for a guy supposed to be a deep threat was 12.4 y/c. Gonzalez wasn't needed the first 4 games, was injured and still had 4 games better than any Ginn produced. He also had a 15.6 y/c average. Obviously a lot of this is Peyton Manning, but if you want me to compare Gonzalez's performance to Ginn's based on stats as a WR, it isn't close.

Put Ginn on the Colts and you'd be saying the same thing about him as you are about Gonzalez.AG played on one of the best teams in the league, and not just at the QB spot, and we all know what Ginn had.

If you put Ginn on the Colts, he blows Gonzalez's numbers away.

Probably, but how does that help us in FF? Unless you expect Beck to turn into Peyton (lol) and the OL to turn into a top unit, I'm taking Gonzalez over Ginn in FF, and as I haven't been offered a job in the NFL, that's all that matters. FWIW, I do like Ginn and didn't fault the Dolphins for the pick. He's done well considering everything.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I own them both in a 32 team dynasty so I like my future

But I'm interested in comparing their playing time. Did Ginn play the whole year? Wasn't Gonzalez kinda eased along as the season wore on? That may be something to consider when comparing their numbers. Also, I don't think Gonzalez was used as a kick/punt returner so Ginn would hold some more value there, but I think the numbers Ginn put up as a returner were pretty average at best. I am however excited about his future now that Parcells is in town and hopefully an improvement at OC and HC.

Ginn was eased in too. He played sporadically until about midway through the season. He had three or more catches in six of the last seven games (Baltimore).Compare how you will to Gonzalez game logs.

One big difference is the Dolphins needed Ginn, yet didn't play him quickly. His best game was 67 yards and his average, for a guy supposed to be a deep threat was 12.4 y/c. Gonzalez wasn't needed the first 4 games, was injured and still had 4 games better than any Ginn produced. He also had a 15.6 y/c average. Obviously a lot of this is Peyton Manning, but if you want me to compare Gonzalez's performance to Ginn's based on stats as a WR, it isn't close.

Put Ginn on the Colts and you'd be saying the same thing about him as you are about Gonzalez.AG played on one of the best teams in the league, and not just at the QB spot, and we all know what Ginn had.

If you put Ginn on the Colts, he blows Gonzalez's numbers away.

Probably, but how does that help us in FF? Unless you expect Beck to turn into Peyton (lol) and the OL to turn into a top unit, I'm taking Gonzalez over Ginn in FF, and as I haven't been offered a job in the NFL, that's all that matters. FWIW, I do like Ginn and didn't fault the Dolphins for the pick. He's done well considering everything.

Didn't realize you were talking about FF. I was talking from an NFL standpoint.Of course you take AG over TG in a FF draft.

 

[az_prof]

Obviously Gonzalez over Ginn in redraft, but in dynasty it is more difficult. I think that Parcell's will turn the Finns around and will get them a quarterback, if not this year, then next year. So, long term, I like Ginn's chances... He is set up to be the WR1 on his team next year.

 

[Captain Spaulding]

Obviously Gonzalez over Ginn in redraft, but in dynasty it is more difficult. I think that Parcell's will turn the Finns around and will get them a quarterback, if not this year, then next year. So, long term, I like Ginn's chances... He is set up to be the WR1 on his team next year.

Even in dynasty I think you lean towards Gonzalez. Peyton is probably golden for at least 3-4 more years. Reggie Wayne will get double teamed and Harrison could retire after the season (just on age) or possibly play 1-2 more years. That leave Gonzo the 2nd in single coverage with Hall of Fame QB throwing him the rock...in a dome 50% of the time.Ginn has no experienced QB to get him the ball, and after this season defenses will review a ton of tape, and since the Fins have almost no other receiving threats Ginn will get either the #1 CB or double teamed. I doubt he saw that for most of this season.

 

[Colin Dowling]

I think Gonzales was drafted to take over Harrison's position in the next few years. In Dynasty, I think he's the clear choice. There are a LOT of talented WRs in the league, GInn included. That doesn't make them productive.

 

[hauser42]

Obviously Gonzalez over Ginn in redraft, but in dynasty it is more difficult. I think that Parcell's will turn the Finns around and will get them a quarterback, if not this year, then next year. So, long term, I like Ginn's chances... He is set up to be the WR1 on his team next year.

Fins will be pounding the rock with the new offense. Dont look for them to be throwing the ball over the field a lot with the new coach. Ginn might be the #1 for the Fins down the road but he will have to deal with being the only target and double coverage. Dont see Ginn really putting up very good numbers the next 3-5 years.

 

[Captain Spaulding]

I think Gonzales was drafted to take over Harrison's position in the next few years. In Dynasty, I think he's the clear choice. There are a LOT of talented WRs in the league, GInn included. That doesn't make them productive.

Randy Moss was horrible fantasy WR while in Oakland, yet the best fantasy WR in Minn and NE.Mushin Mohamed was the #1 WR in the NFL his last year in Carolina then fell to mediocre at best his last several years in Chicago.dynasty value=real estate value ...location, location location

 

[jurb26]

I own them both in a 32 team dynasty so I like my future

But I'm interested in comparing their playing time. Did Ginn play the whole year? Wasn't Gonzalez kinda eased along as the season wore on? That may be something to consider when comparing their numbers. Also, I don't think Gonzalez was used as a kick/punt returner so Ginn would hold some more value there, but I think the numbers Ginn put up as a returner were pretty average at best. I am however excited about his future now that Parcells is in town and hopefully an improvement at OC and HC.

Ginn was eased in too. He played sporadically until about midway through the season. He had three or more catches in six of the last seven games (Baltimore).Compare how you will to Gonzalez game logs.

One big difference is the Dolphins needed Ginn, yet didn't play him quickly. His best game was 67 yards and his average, for a guy supposed to be a deep threat was 12.4 y/c. Gonzalez wasn't needed the first 4 games, was injured and still had 4 games better than any Ginn produced. He also had a 15.6 y/c average. Obviously a lot of this is Peyton Manning, but if you want me to compare Gonzalez's performance to Ginn's based on stats as a WR, it isn't close.

Put Ginn on the Colts and you'd be saying the same thing about him as you are about Gonzalez.AG played on one of the best teams in the league, and not just at the QB spot, and we all know what Ginn had.

If you put Ginn on the Colts, he blows Gonzalez's numbers away.

Probably, but how does that help us in FF? Unless you expect Beck to turn into Peyton (lol) and the OL to turn into a top unit, I'm taking Gonzalez over Ginn in FF, and as I haven't been offered a job in the NFL, that's all that matters. FWIW, I do like Ginn and didn't fault the Dolphins for the pick. He's done well considering everything.

Didn't realize you were talking about FF. I was talking from an NFL standpoint.Of course you take AG over TG in a FF draft.

I wasn't talking FF either.