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Tedy Bruschi: Future Pro Football Hall of Famer? (1 Viewer)

Very curious in the opinions - Tedy Bruschi: Future Pro Football Hall of Famer or not?

  • YES - Bruschi will be an Pro Football Hall of Famer when he retires

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • He might be - he still needs to accomplish more

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • NO - Bruschi will not be an Pro Football Hall of Famer in the future

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0
We Buffalo Bills fans have our own point of view of Bruschi.

Since ESPN has already established that he sits at the right hand of the Heavenly Father, the NFL HOF would be a downgrade.
Are these the same Buffalo Bill fans who laughed at us Patriots fans when the Bills got Bledsoe for a 1st rounder and Milloy as a free agent?
Yes....one in the same....i might add those deals were made by former GM Tom Donahoe.
Just busting balls a little bit, my friend. ;)
 
We Buffalo Bills fans have our own point of view of Bruschi.

Since ESPN has already established that he sits at the right hand of the Heavenly Father, the NFL HOF would be a downgrade.
Are these the same Buffalo Bill fans who laughed at us Patriots fans when the Bills got Bledsoe for a 1st rounder and Milloy as a free agent?
Yes....one in the same....i might add those deals were made by former GM Tom Donahoe.
Just busting balls a little bit, my friend. ;)
i know....all in good fun. :suds: i am one of the few Bills fans that actually respects what the Pats have accomplished. i just hate the daily Bruschi worship service on ESPN.

 
Law probably was the better tackler, but I think Madison was the better coverage guy. It's real difficult to compare CBs on different teams and with different schemes. Madison did make two All Pro teams in 1999 and 2000. I'm not sure how many Law made (I know he did in 1998); I'd guess he made two as well.
Again, I think most people who have watched a lot of AFC East games would say that Law is better both tackling and in coverage. But you're entitled to your opinion, of course.Not sure how many times Law has been an All Pro off the top of my head, but I do know he's been the NFL's Defensive Back of the Year twice, which more than covers Madison's two All Pro selections.
Law made All Pro twice - 1998 & 2003Consider the All Pro selections just within 1995-2005, which spans Law's career:

Deion Sanders - 1996, 1997, 1998 (plus 3 other years before that)

Aeneas Williams - 1995, 1996, 1997, 2001

Ronde Barber - 2001, 2004, 2005

Sam Madison - 1999, 2000

Champ Bailey - 2004, 2005

Eric Davis - 2005

Ashley Ambrose - 1996

Charles Woodson - 1999

Samari Rolle - 2000

Patrick Surtain - 2002

Troy Vincent - 2002

Chris McAllister - 2003

Clearly Sanders is in, along with Woodson and Darrell Green. There is no doubt that Aeneas Williams deserves it more than Law, unless Law adds a lot to his resume between now & retirement:

Williams:

- All Pro 4 times as a CB

- Pro Bowler 8 times (7 at CB, 1 at S)

- Selected for 1990s All Decade team

- 55 career interceptions, currently #17 all time

- 794 tackles

- 3 sacks

- 12 forced fumbles

- 23 fumble recoveries

- 168 passes defensed

- 12 defensive TDs, including 9 interception returns (tied for #2 all-time)

- Postseason record 2 interceptions returned for TDs in 1 game (vs. Green Bay 1/20/02)

- Played in 183 consecutive games, including 180 consecutive starts

- 211 games total

- Played in one Super Bowl, which his team lost

Law:

- All Pro 2 times as a CB

- Pro Bowler 4 times

- 46 career interceptions

- 700 tackles

- 4 sacks

- 3 forced fumbles

- 5 fumble recoveries

- 140 passes defensed

- 7 defensive TDs, all interception returns

- 157 games

- Played in 4 Super Bowls; his team went 3-1

The only thing Law has over Williams is one sack and the Super Bowls. I can't see the Super Bowls being enough to overcome the big edge Williams has everywhere else.

Now consider that there are only 9 cornerbacks in the HOF:

#### (Night Train) Lane (CB) 1952-1965

Herb Adderley (CB) 1961-1972

Jimmy Johnson (CB) 1961-1976

Mel Renfro (S-CB) 1964-1977

Lem Barney (CB) 1967-1977

Willie Brown (CB) 1963-1978

Mel Blount (CB) 1970-1983

Mike Haynes (CB) 1976-1989

Ronnie Lott (CB-S) 1981-1994

Only one whose career ended in the 1990s, and only two others whose career ended since 1978. Given Sanders, Woodson, and Darrell Green are locks IMO, that might even keep Williams out. So I just can't see it for Law.

EDIT: Forgot to ask, is it even clear that Law is next after Aeneas?

 
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AV-I think he gets in easily. His combination of stats, rings, monster kicks and good guy persona with the press will get him in. The fact the Pats are viewed as a team with limited star power will also help him. He also has a chance to add some serious numbers to his resume playing for Indy in a dome.
Not a chance unless he plays for at least 10 more years and adds a ton to his resume. Here is a post on that subject from the HOF thread I mentioned earlier:
And what about kickers? Maybe one or two?
What is there currently . . . one full-time kicker in the HOF (plus Blanda)?Can we narrow it down to one kicker? Maybe Ray Guy as a punter and Vinatieri for a placekicker . . .
I've had the Vinatieri conversation before. In general, the argument for him boils down to him having made a few clutch kicks in the postseason. Meanwhile, guys like Gary Anderson and Morten Andersen have more than twice as many points.I did a brief search, and from what I could find, I'd vote for Morten Andersen, if any place kicker:

- 2nd all time in points (2358) & FGs (520) to Gary Anderson

- 1st all time in games played (354)

- Most consecutive games scoring (332), with Elam a distant second with 188 through 2004

- All time leader in made 50+ yard FGs in career (40), season (8), and game (3)

- Entering 2004, had 31 game deciding kicks... can't find where that ranks

- Kicked the 3rd longest FG in history (60 yards)

- Most Pro Bowls ever for a kicker (7)

- Most Pro Bowl points, FGs, FGAs, XPs

How much of that is made up by a few clutch postseason kicks?
it's not a few clutch kicks it's like 25-30 in a row over like 2-3 years. I had pasted it into a thread discussing it with CalBear if IIRC. He seemed to be "eh' to it while I thought it was phenomenal that he wouldn't miss in the 4th quarter for so long. I believe his streak ended this year BTW
If you are saying he made 25-30 clutch kicks in a row over 2-3 years, I'd like to see your definition of clutch kick. I already posted above that Andersen has 31 game winning kicks and 40 50+ yard FGs. I think it is fair to say those are clutch plays for kickers. How does Vinatieri compare in those categories?And then on top of that, Andersen has the career points, the most Pro Bowls, etc. I just don't see how anyone can justify Vinatieri over him, at least not at this time. If Vinatieri keeps kicking for 10+ more years and significantly closes the gap on those other accomplishments, then I could see his clutch playoff kicks becoming a discriminator.

Here is an old post I made on this subject from Vinatieri, Is this guy Canton bound?:

Once again, I will attempt to give this my own perspective on why kickers differ from other positions with respect to HOF (at least other non special teams positions).

How many truly great plays has Vinatieri made in his career? Bostonfred listed 6 earlier. (Why 6? Is that all?) Let's give him the benefit of the doubt and say he has made 20 in his career. Heck, let's go with 27, which would give him the equivalent of 3 great plays per season.

Now consider how many great plays per season guys like <insert favorite HOF player here> made. Note: making 80% of your field goals does not count as making great plays, only the ones like the ones already mentioned in this thread really count.

Does a typical HOFer make as few as 3 great plays per season? My gut says no, but I'm open to other opinions. IMO, this is the reason that making it as a kicker has more to do with sustained excellence than a small number of great plays.
There is some great discussion in that thread for those who are interested in this topic.
 
if it goes by football ability he has to be in. I have watched this guy almost every down of his career. I cant say there is another LB that I would want in a big game. When the game is on the line near the end of the game this guy is the best in the biz..just know where the plays are going and gets there first while totally giving up his body to do so. He is a total animal on the field and I honestly can say that I have not seen many better in my years of watching football.

 
IIRC he started out as just a 3rd down 'backer for years and Pepper helped him become a solid ILB. HOFers seem to be great right off the bat, he took a long while to find his niche IMO.

 
I'm as big a Bruschi fan as anyone, but no.
Then how can you say this? He has been a difference maker on a team that has established a dynasty. Have you ever watched him closely in big games when its on the line? There is no better in the game than him at that point. Smart knows where the plays is going and does whatever it takes to get there. Actually I have never seen anything like this guy in game deciding situations, ever of the defensive side of the ball. I have to wonder whats going on in this thread? Ted Bruschi is as good a football player as I have ever seen and when 100% I can't name many better or any that I would rahter have when a play is needed to win or secure a win.
 
I'm as big a Bruschi fan as anyone, but no.
Then how can you say this? He has been a difference maker on a team that has established a dynasty. Have you ever watched him closely in big games when its on the line? There is no better in the game than him at that point. Smart knows where the plays is going and does whatever it takes to get there. Actually I have never seen anything like this guy in game deciding situations, ever of the defensive side of the ball. I have to wonder whats going on in this thread? Ted Bruschi is as good a football player as I have ever seen and when 100% I can't name many better or any that I would rahter have when a play is needed to win or secure a win.
:thumbup: All Brewski needs to get in the Hall is for every voter to be a blind homer. :bye:
 
Bruschi will be in the UofA and Pac10 Hall of Fame, which is obviously more prestigous than the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

:goodposting:

 
Great player. Steeler equivalent would be someone like Andy Russell. Not an HOFer, but an awesome part of the team's heritage. Enjoy him while he's playing.

 
Law probably was the better tackler, but I think Madison was the better coverage guy. It's real difficult to compare CBs on different teams and with different schemes. Madison did make two All Pro teams in 1999 and 2000. I'm not sure how many Law made (I know he did in 1998); I'd guess he made two as well.
Again, I think most people who have watched a lot of AFC East games would say that Law is better both tackling and in coverage. But you're entitled to your opinion, of course.Not sure how many times Law has been an All Pro off the top of my head, but I do know he's been the NFL's Defensive Back of the Year twice, which more than covers Madison's two All Pro selections.
Law made All Pro twice - 1998 & 2003Consider the All Pro selections just within 1995-2005, which spans Law's career:

Deion Sanders - 1996, 1997, 1998 (plus 3 other years before that)

Aeneas Williams - 1995, 1996, 1997, 2001

Ronde Barber - 2001, 2004, 2005

Sam Madison - 1999, 2000

Champ Bailey - 2004, 2005

Eric Davis - 2005

Ashley Ambrose - 1996

Charles Woodson - 1999

Samari Rolle - 2000

Patrick Surtain - 2002

Troy Vincent - 2002

Chris McAllister - 2003

Clearly Sanders is in, along with Woodson and Darrell Green. There is no doubt that Aeneas Williams deserves it more than Law, unless Law adds a lot to his resume between now & retirement:

Williams:

- All Pro 4 times as a CB

- Pro Bowler 8 times (7 at CB, 1 at S)

- Selected for 1990s All Decade team

- 55 career interceptions, currently #17 all time

- 794 tackles

- 3 sacks

- 12 forced fumbles

- 23 fumble recoveries

- 168 passes defensed

- 12 defensive TDs, including 9 interception returns (tied for #2 all-time)

- Postseason record 2 interceptions returned for TDs in 1 game (vs. Green Bay 1/20/02)

- Played in 183 consecutive games, including 180 consecutive starts

- 211 games total

- Played in one Super Bowl, which his team lost

Law:

- All Pro 2 times as a CB

- Pro Bowler 4 times

- 46 career interceptions

- 700 tackles

- 4 sacks

- 3 forced fumbles

- 5 fumble recoveries

- 140 passes defensed

- 7 defensive TDs, all interception returns

- 157 games

- Played in 4 Super Bowls; his team went 3-1

The only thing Law has over Williams is one sack and the Super Bowls. I can't see the Super Bowls being enough to overcome the big edge Williams has everywhere else.

Now consider that there are only 9 cornerbacks in the HOF:

#### (Night Train) Lane (CB) 1952-1965

Herb Adderley (CB) 1961-1972

Jimmy Johnson (CB) 1961-1976

Mel Renfro (S-CB) 1964-1977

Lem Barney (CB) 1967-1977

Willie Brown (CB) 1963-1978

Mel Blount (CB) 1970-1983

Mike Haynes (CB) 1976-1989

Ronnie Lott (CB-S) 1981-1994

Only one whose career ended in the 1990s, and only two others whose career ended since 1978. Given Sanders, Woodson, and Darrell Green are locks IMO, that might even keep Williams out. So I just can't see it for Law.

EDIT: Forgot to ask, is it even clear that Law is next after Aeneas?
No offense, but I'm not sure why you felt the need to get so in depth. I don't think anyone ever said that Law was better than Aeneas Williams. I think most of us agree that Williams had the better career, and that he should be in the HOF right along with Green, Sanders, and Woodson.Is it your opinion that we have to choose one, Williams or Law, and that the other doesn't get in? That's the only reason I can come up with as to why you went through so much trouble to make the comparison.

:shrug:

 
I'm as big a Bruschi fan as anyone, but no.
Then how can you say this? He has been a difference maker on a team that has established a dynasty. Have you ever watched him closely in big games when its on the line? There is no better in the game than him at that point. Smart knows where the plays is going and does whatever it takes to get there. Actually I have never seen anything like this guy in game deciding situations, ever of the defensive side of the ball. I have to wonder whats going on in this thread? Ted Bruschi is as good a football player as I have ever seen and when 100% I can't name many better or any that I would rahter have when a play is needed to win or secure a win.
:lmao: Come on, Donny. I'm a huge Patriots fan, too, but let's be reasonable about this.

 
No offense, but I'm not sure why you felt the need to get so in depth. I don't think anyone ever said that Law was better than Aeneas Williams. I think most of us agree that Williams had the better career, and that he should be in the HOF right along with Green, Sanders, and Woodson.

Is it your opinion that we have to choose one, Williams or Law, and that the other doesn't get in? That's the only reason I can come up with as to why you went through so much trouble to make the comparison.

:shrug:
It is my opinion that 3 other CBs will get into the HOF within the next 5 years. Given that a total of 3 whose careers ended in the 80s & 90s have made it, I think that makes it tougher for anyone else to make it within the 10 years that follow. Williams is the next most worthy, and I'm not convinced he will make it. Hence, I think Law has no shot.I agree I probably got a bit carried away with the comparison.

 
AV-I think he gets in easily.  His combination of stats, rings, monster kicks and good guy persona with the press will get him in.  The fact the Pats are viewed as a team with limited star power will also help him.  He also has a chance to add some serious numbers to his resume playing for Indy in a dome.
Not a chance unless he plays for at least 10 more years and adds a ton to his resume. Here is a post on that subject from the HOF thread I mentioned earlier:
And what about kickers?  Maybe one or two?
What is there currently . . . one full-time kicker in the HOF (plus Blanda)?Can we narrow it down to one kicker? Maybe Ray Guy as a punter and Vinatieri for a placekicker . . .
I've had the Vinatieri conversation before. In general, the argument for him boils down to him having made a few clutch kicks in the postseason. Meanwhile, guys like Gary Anderson and Morten Andersen have more than twice as many points.I did a brief search, and from what I could find, I'd vote for Morten Andersen, if any place kicker:

- 2nd all time in points (2358) & FGs (520) to Gary Anderson

- 1st all time in games played (354)

- Most consecutive games scoring (332), with Elam a distant second with 188 through 2004

- All time leader in made 50+ yard FGs in career (40), season (8), and game (3)

- Entering 2004, had 31 game deciding kicks... can't find where that ranks

- Kicked the 3rd longest FG in history (60 yards)

- Most Pro Bowls ever for a kicker (7)

- Most Pro Bowl points, FGs, FGAs, XPs

How much of that is made up by a few clutch postseason kicks?
it's not a few clutch kicks it's like 25-30 in a row over like 2-3 years. I had pasted it into a thread discussing it with CalBear if IIRC. He seemed to be "eh' to it while I thought it was phenomenal that he wouldn't miss in the 4th quarter for so long. I believe his streak ended this year BTW
If you are saying he made 25-30 clutch kicks in a row over 2-3 years, I'd like to see your definition of clutch kick. I already posted above that Andersen has 31 game winning kicks and 40 50+ yard FGs. I think it is fair to say those are clutch plays for kickers. How does Vinatieri compare in those categories?And then on top of that, Andersen has the career points, the most Pro Bowls, etc. I just don't see how anyone can justify Vinatieri over him, at least not at this time. If Vinatieri keeps kicking for 10+ more years and significantly closes the gap on those other accomplishments, then I could see his clutch playoff kicks becoming a discriminator.

Here is an old post I made on this subject from Vinatieri, Is this guy Canton bound?:

Once again, I will attempt to give this my own perspective on why kickers differ from other positions with respect to HOF (at least other non special teams positions).

How many truly great plays has Vinatieri made in his career?  Bostonfred listed 6 earlier.  (Why 6?  Is that all?)  Let's give him the benefit of the doubt and say he has made 20 in his career.  Heck, let's go with 27, which would give him the equivalent of 3 great plays per season.

Now consider how many great plays per season guys like <insert favorite HOF player here> made.  Note:  making 80% of your field goals does not count as making great plays, only the ones like the ones already mentioned in this thread really count.

Does a typical HOFer make as few as 3 great plays per season?  My gut says no, but I'm open to other opinions.  IMO, this is the reason that making it as a kicker has more to do with sustained excellence than a small number of great plays.
There is some great discussion in that thread for those who are interested in this topic.
I strongly disagree and will be very surprised if he doesn't make the Hall. He will be very similar to Kirby Puckett in baseball. A great player who's stats aren't earthshattering (although they could be because he still has a lot of mileage left) but who's performances in the toughest situation took his career to another level. AV has made some of the greatest kicks in football history. He has won two Super Bowls and has probably the greatest kick in NFL history with the one against Oakland in the snow. You can talk numbers all you want but in the end AV's excellent career numbers will combine with his unequaled clutch performances and this will land him in Canton just like Puckett got into Cooperstown. If he doesn't make it than the Hall might as well hang a sign that says no kicker will ever make it regardless of what they accomplish.
 
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Maybe if Puckett was a DH, that comparison would be valid.

When it gets down to it, you need to do it for a long time, and kicker? Even longer.

If you think that Vinitiari is going in, fine. But understand: If he does, it's because the voters did the exact opposite of everything they've ever done. Voted in a kicker, and passed over players with better career totals (Gale Sayers notwithstanding).

EDIT: Oh, and Bruschi? Ah................................................no.

 
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Maybe if Puckett was a DH, that comparison would be valid.

When it gets down to it, you need to do it for a long time, and kicker?  Even longer. 

If you think that Vinitiari is going in, fine.  But understand:  If he does, it's because the voters did the exact opposite of everything they've ever done.  Voted in a kicker, and passed over players with better career totals  (Gale Sayers notwithstanding).

EDIT:  Oh, and Bruschi?  Ah................................................no.
AV has done it for a decade (and counting) he is not a 4-6 year wonder. If he was there would be no debate. Using your reasoning a guy like Don Sutton is a better pitcher than Sandy Koufax. AV's stellar career COMBINED with his historical kicks will (I believe) trump a player who simply put up big time numbers over the course of a very long and high quality career that has no moments (other than missing a kick in the NFC championship game) that anyone really remembers.
 
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AV-I think he gets in easily.  His combination of stats, rings, monster kicks and good guy persona with the press will get him in.  The fact the Pats are viewed as a team with limited star power will also help him.  He also has a chance to add some serious numbers to his resume playing for Indy in a dome.
Not a chance unless he plays for at least 10 more years and adds a ton to his resume. Here is a post on that subject from the HOF thread I mentioned earlier:
And what about kickers?  Maybe one or two?
What is there currently . . . one full-time kicker in the HOF (plus Blanda)?Can we narrow it down to one kicker? Maybe Ray Guy as a punter and Vinatieri for a placekicker . . .
I've had the Vinatieri conversation before. In general, the argument for him boils down to him having made a few clutch kicks in the postseason. Meanwhile, guys like Gary Anderson and Morten Andersen have more than twice as many points.I did a brief search, and from what I could find, I'd vote for Morten Andersen, if any place kicker:

- 2nd all time in points (2358) & FGs (520) to Gary Anderson

- 1st all time in games played (354)

- Most consecutive games scoring (332), with Elam a distant second with 188 through 2004

- All time leader in made 50+ yard FGs in career (40), season (8), and game (3)

- Entering 2004, had 31 game deciding kicks... can't find where that ranks

- Kicked the 3rd longest FG in history (60 yards)

- Most Pro Bowls ever for a kicker (7)

- Most Pro Bowl points, FGs, FGAs, XPs

How much of that is made up by a few clutch postseason kicks?
it's not a few clutch kicks it's like 25-30 in a row over like 2-3 years. I had pasted it into a thread discussing it with CalBear if IIRC. He seemed to be "eh' to it while I thought it was phenomenal that he wouldn't miss in the 4th quarter for so long. I believe his streak ended this year BTW
If you are saying he made 25-30 clutch kicks in a row over 2-3 years, I'd like to see your definition of clutch kick. I already posted above that Andersen has 31 game winning kicks and 40 50+ yard FGs. I think it is fair to say those are clutch plays for kickers. How does Vinatieri compare in those categories?And then on top of that, Andersen has the career points, the most Pro Bowls, etc. I just don't see how anyone can justify Vinatieri over him, at least not at this time. If Vinatieri keeps kicking for 10+ more years and significantly closes the gap on those other accomplishments, then I could see his clutch playoff kicks becoming a discriminator.

Here is an old post I made on this subject from Vinatieri, Is this guy Canton bound?:

Once again, I will attempt to give this my own perspective on why kickers differ from other positions with respect to HOF (at least other non special teams positions).

How many truly great plays has Vinatieri made in his career?  Bostonfred listed 6 earlier.  (Why 6?  Is that all?)  Let's give him the benefit of the doubt and say he has made 20 in his career.  Heck, let's go with 27, which would give him the equivalent of 3 great plays per season.

Now consider how many great plays per season guys like <insert favorite HOF player here> made.  Note:  making 80% of your field goals does not count as making great plays, only the ones like the ones already mentioned in this thread really count.

Does a typical HOFer make as few as 3 great plays per season?  My gut says no, but I'm open to other opinions.  IMO, this is the reason that making it as a kicker has more to do with sustained excellence than a small number of great plays.
There is some great discussion in that thread for those who are interested in this topic.
I strongly disagree and will be very surprised if he doesn't make the Hall. He will be very similar to Kirby Puckett in baseball. A great player who's stats aren't earthshattering (although they could be because he still has a lot of mileage left) but who's performances in the toughest situation took his career to another level. AV has made some of the greatest kicks in football history. He has won two Super Bowls and has probably the greatest kick in NFL history with the one against Oakland in the snow. You can talk numbers all you want but in the end AV's excellent career numbers will combine with his unequaled clutch performances and this will land him in Canton just like Puckett got into Cooperstown. If he doesn't make it than the Hall might as well hang a sign that says no kicker will ever make it regardless of what they accomplish.
Vinatieri had a shot at the HOF if he had stayed with the Pats. By going to Indy he has tarnished his career IMO. The kick in the snow game with Oakland is the possibly the greatest kick in NFL history. However, both of his SB kicks were mid 40 yard kicks in a dome. Pressure was high but level of difficulty wasnt exactly off the charts.Vinatieri has not put up big stats, YET. He has not had a big leg in his career. Maybe he went to the Dome team because getting up there in age he knows he cant continue even at his current level which is a dependable regular season kicker from 35-45 and a clutch bad weather kicker in the playoffs.

 
I'm as big a Bruschi fan as anyone, but no.
Then how can you say this? He has been a difference maker on a team that has established a dynasty. Have you ever watched him closely in big games when its on the line? There is no better in the game than him at that point. Smart knows where the plays is going and does whatever it takes to get there. Actually I have never seen anything like this guy in game deciding situations, ever of the defensive side of the ball. I have to wonder whats going on in this thread? Ted Bruschi is as good a football player as I have ever seen and when 100% I can't name many better or any that I would rahter have when a play is needed to win or secure a win.
:lmao: Come on, Donny. I'm a huge Patriots fan, too, but let's be reasonable about this.
Some people claim that Brady is a system QB. I think that is ridiculous and couldnt be any further from the truth.However, I do think in some respects Bruschi is a sytem LB and a product of the BB defensive scheme.

I had a pretty heated discussion/battle with a Staff member comparing Bruschi to London Fletcher. I still think that Bruschi is better than Fletcher but he is not a HOF'er. He didnt come into his own until about 5 years ago. He is/has been a tweener his whole career. He came out of college as a rush DE, played some OLB and then slotted into the ILB spot. There is not a better big game defensive player in the league over the past 5 years but that in of itself does not make him a HOF'er.

 
Maybe if Puckett was a DH, that comparison would be valid.

When it gets down to it, you need to do it for a long time, and kicker?  Even longer. 

If you think that Vinitiari is going in, fine.  But understand:  If he does, it's because the voters did the exact opposite of everything they've ever done.  Voted in a kicker, and passed over players with better career totals  (Gale Sayers notwithstanding).

EDIT:  Oh, and Bruschi?  Ah................................................no.
AV has done it for a decade (and counting) he is not a 4-6 year wonder. If he was there would be no debate. Using your reasoning a guy like Don Sutton is a better pitcher than Sandy Koufax. AV's stellar career COMBINED with his historical kicks will (I believe) trump a player who simply put up big time numbers over the course of a very long and high quality career that has no moments (other than missing a kick in the NFC championship game) that anyone really remembers.
It's not my reasoning. It's the voters reasoning. And five years after Vinitiari retires (in what, 10 years or so) I wonder if those clutch kicks will be as vivid in everyones memory, and will be enough to 'trump' a player whose career numbers dwarf his.I think AV SHOULD be a Hall of Famer. But I think he has little chance of making it.

 
Maybe if Puckett was a DH, that comparison would be valid.

When it gets down to it, you need to do it for a long time, and kicker?  Even longer. 

If you think that Vinitiari is going in, fine.  But understand:  If he does, it's because the voters did the exact opposite of everything they've ever done.  Voted in a kicker, and passed over players with better career totals  (Gale Sayers notwithstanding).

EDIT:  Oh, and Bruschi?  Ah................................................no.
AV has done it for a decade (and counting) he is not a 4-6 year wonder. If he was there would be no debate. Using your reasoning a guy like Don Sutton is a better pitcher than Sandy Koufax. AV's stellar career COMBINED with his historical kicks will (I believe) trump a player who simply put up big time numbers over the course of a very long and high quality career that has no moments (other than missing a kick in the NFC championship game) that anyone really remembers.
First off, I think you're referring to Gary Anderson, while I was referring to Morten Andersen as the kicker with the best chance to make it.Secondly, are you aware how many kickers are in the HOF? One. Jan Stenerud, who pioneered soccer style kicking. (Not counting a couple others like Lou Groza who played other positions and kicked.)

Third, it is really unfortunate that the Vinatieri for HOF thread got pruned. There was a lot of good, relevant discussion there. Vinatieri isn't even halfway to the numbers that others have. His few important postseason kicks don't make up for that.

Fourth, since you won't be convinced, we can simply agree to disagree and revisit this in 20 years when he isn't in. :)

 
Vinatieri had a shot at the HOF if he had stayed with the Pats. By going to Indy he has tarnished his career IMO.
Most hall voters aren't bitter Patriots fans...they understand the nature of free agency and its effects on player careers in the salary cap era...the only real controversy will be whether he is evaluated on kicks/points (in which case he won't make it) or wins/"clutch kicks"/rings (in which case he will)...
 
Vinatieri had a shot at the HOF if he had stayed with the Pats.  By going to Indy he has tarnished his career IMO. 
Most hall voters aren't bitter Patriots fans...they understand the nature of free agency and its effects on player careers in the salary cap era...the only real controversy will be whether he is evaluated on kicks/points (in which case he won't make it) or wins/"clutch kicks"/rings (in which case he will)...
You don't think voters like guys who've stayed with one team their entire careers?
 
I went with option #2. If his career ended today, then he probably doesn't get in. But, his career isn't over. Bruschi could play for a few more years at a high level. If he does, I think it's possible that he makes the HOF. Longevity has to be a factor in a league where the average player lasts only a few years.

 
Vinatieri had a shot at the HOF if he had stayed with the Pats. By going to Indy he has tarnished his career IMO.
Most hall voters aren't bitter Patriots fans...they understand the nature of free agency and its effects on player careers in the salary cap era...the only real controversy will be whether he is evaluated on kicks/points (in which case he won't make it) or wins/"clutch kicks"/rings (in which case he will)...
You don't think voters like guys who've stayed with one team their entire careers?
Compared to statistical achievements, personal accolades, championships, place amongst peers...I'd say "staying with one team" is a far less important criterion, especially in today's league when staying with one team will only become less and less common...Unfortunately its hard to support this with data since the impact of free agency on hall inductions has yet to play out, but other than the impact of a "single team identity" on the sentimental evaluation, I don't believe it has much effect...

 
Vinatieri had a shot at the HOF if he had stayed with the Pats.  By going to Indy he has tarnished his career IMO. 
Most hall voters aren't bitter Patriots fans...they understand the nature of free agency and its effects on player careers in the salary cap era...the only real controversy will be whether he is evaluated on kicks/points (in which case he won't make it) or wins/"clutch kicks"/rings (in which case he will)...
You don't think voters like guys who've stayed with one team their entire careers?
Compared to statistical achievements, personal accolades, championships, place amongst peers...I'd say "staying with one team" is a far less important criterion, especially in today's league when staying with one team will only become less and less common...Unfortunately its hard to support this with data since the impact of free agency on hall inductions has yet to play out, but other than the impact of a "single team identity" on the sentimental evaluation, I don't believe it has much effect...
So you do admit that it does have some effect?
 
Getting back to Bruschi....

I'm too lazy to look all this stuff up, but if memory serves he has never led the league in any major statistical category, he's not on pace to break any career records (or even be in the running), he's never mentioned (in any meaningful discussions) as one of the best at his position.

Being a part (even a major part) of three championship teams probably isn't enough to compensate.

 
Vinatieri had a shot at the HOF if he had stayed with the Pats.  By going to Indy he has tarnished his career IMO. 
Most hall voters aren't bitter Patriots fans...they understand the nature of free agency and its effects on player careers in the salary cap era...the only real controversy will be whether he is evaluated on kicks/points (in which case he won't make it) or wins/"clutch kicks"/rings (in which case he will)...
Can anyone articulate the list of clutch kicks Vinatieri has made? In the Vinatieri for HOF thread that has been pruned, bostonfred did that. Now, bostonfred is as big a Pats fan as there is, and if I recall correctly he was on the side that thinks Vinatieri had a good chance to make the HOF. And yet, he could only name 6 clutch kicks in Vinatieri's career.Looking at postseason:

In 2003, he made a 46 yard FG with 4:06 left in the Pats' first round game against Tennessee. He then went on to make a 41 yard FG in the Super Bowl to win it. Two clutch kicks.

In 2001, the OT kick in the snow angel game and the Super Bowl winner were clutch.

Which others am I missing?

Vinatieri has made 8 50+ FGs in his career. Not sure how many game deciding kicks he has made aside from the few postseason kicks. For comparison, Morten Andersen has made 40 FGs of 50+ yards and 31 game deciding kicks.

Do those of you who feel Vinatieri will/should make it think Morten Andersen will make it?

Do those of you who feel Vinatieri will/should make it think he deserves it based on those 4 kicks I identified above? If there is more to it, what else is there?

 
Vinatieri had a shot at the HOF if he had stayed with the Pats.  By going to Indy he has tarnished his career IMO. 
Most hall voters aren't bitter Patriots fans...they understand the nature of free agency and its effects on player careers in the salary cap era...the only real controversy will be whether he is evaluated on kicks/points (in which case he won't make it) or wins/"clutch kicks"/rings (in which case he will)...
You don't think voters like guys who've stayed with one team their entire careers?
It's really hard to imagine a scenario where this might come into play. A number of recent Hall of Famers have played for more than one team. Joe Montana, Reggie White, Warren Moon. You'd really need a number of voters with specific grudges for this to matter. Maybe it's a problem for T.O. (but he's got bigger ones). You know, if Vinatieri boots a Super Bowl winning kick for the Colts then leaving the Pats would wind up being the best career move ever in terms of the HOF.
 
Some guys from the NE defense need to make it, don't they? If you don't take Bruschi, who do you take? Harrison is very good, but he doesn't have all 3 rings. McGinnest? Wilfork? Who? Or was NE's success just Tom Brady and Bellicheck's schemes?
Why does someone from New England's defense have to make it?The only franchise that has been to more superbowls than the Denver Broncos is the Dallas Cowboys. Do you know how many Hall of Famers the Denver Broncos have? John Elway, and that's it. Even if Zimmerman, Sharpe, Rod Smith, and Steve Atwater all make it (which is unlikely), then Denver's 3-SB-in-4-years squads will still have exactly one hall of famer.

Team success does not necessarily demand hall of famers.

 

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