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Teens Not Driving? (1 Viewer)

pollardsvision

pollardsvision

Footballguy
I've been noticing this trend locally over the last few years and it just baffles me. All the people I work with have driving age kids. None get their license at 16. Most seem to wait until around 18-20. One has a 22 year old with absolutely no plans to do it anytime soon. This is a small city. I assume this sort of thing is common in big cities, but shouldn't be here. No great public transportation here. You wouldn't believe the time wasted (not to mention work missed) by these parents driving driving age kids around town.

Growing up, I don't recall anybody waiting more than 24 hours from the minute they turned 16 to get a license. There was too much to do to wait. Especially as a dude. Waiting wasn't an option if you had plans on getting laid.

Is this a trend now? And are teens just less independent overall? Or is that their entire life is on social media anyway, so there's not as much point in, you know, going anywhere?

Also, seems to be somewhat related, do kids not throw as many house parties anymore? That was the norm when I was growing up, but they don't seem as common these days, though I wouldn't really know.

 
pollardsvision said:
I've been noticing this trend locally over the last few years and it just baffles me. All the people I work with have driving age kids. None get their license at 16. Most seem to wait until around 18-20. One has a 22 year old with absolutely no plans to do it anytime soon. This is a small city. I assume this sort of thing is common in big cities, but shouldn't be here. No great public transportation here. You wouldn't believe the time wasted (not to mention work missed) by these parents driving driving age kids around town.

Growing up, I don't recall anybody waiting more than 24 hours from the minute they turned 16 to get a license. There was too much to do to wait. Especially as a dude. Waiting wasn't an option if you had plans on getting laid.

Is this a trend now? And are teens just less independent overall? Or is that their entire life is on social media anyway, so there's not as much point in, you know, going anywhere?

Also, seems to be somewhat related, do kids not throw as many house parties anymore? That was the norm when I was growing up, but they don't seem as common these days, though I wouldn't really know.
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I think you're kind of right generally, but here in CA, they drive, and drive quickly if they have access to cars. But this is a car state. 

Where are you located? Oh, I see VA. Do you guys have an easy Metro stop or something?  

 
rockaction said:
I think you're kind of right generally, but here in CA, they drive, and drive quickly if they have access to cars. But this is a car state. 

Where are you located? Oh, I see VA. Do you guys have an easy Metro stop or something?  
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No, this is definitely a driving city.

Nationally, it does seem to be a trend. Basically, in the 90's, almost 90% of HS Seniors had a license, now it's about 70%. That article points to mostly economic reasons. 

 
pollardsvision said:
No, this is definitely a driving city.

Nationally, it does seem to be a trend. Basically, in the 90's, almost 90% of HS Seniors had a license, now it's about 70%. That article points to mostly economic reasons. 
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Wow. 

That’s partly a result of tough new rules imposed on young drivers and an explosion in ride-hailing and ride-sharing services. 

50 hours supervised. No wonder teens don't drive. I could barely back into a parking space and got my license. 

Yeesh. 

Nice topic, though, and good linked article. I'm beginning to think, like the article, that graduated restrictions and hours on the road prior to licensure might have something to do with this rather than something wrong with the youth and their desire for independence. Even youth reacts to government restrictions like these.  

 
pollardsvision said:
Growing up, I don't recall anybody waiting more than 24 hours from the minute they turned 16 to get a license. There was too much to do to wait. Especially as a dude. Waiting wasn't an option if you had plans on getting laid.     
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THIS.

man, couldn't wait to get behind the wheel - bottle of SoCo, couple/few packs of 'boro Reds ... cruising the blvds. and strips and avenues - cliche as ####, but it really was the most significant rite of passage. i was youngest in my classes (Sept. birth), so i was one of the last to snag the license, and the wait was excruciatingly awful ... of course, that never stopped me from stealin' mom's car keys in the wee hours when everyone but us were asleep.

dunno 'bout these days ... up here we have the most convenient/accessible public transport in the world, so, these flakes today don't necessarily need  wheels for transport ... and our great car culture has been demonized to a certain extent - seeing these ####### environmentally conscious jalopies is a slap in the face of good ol' fashioned American muscle and extravagance. i mean, would you be straining at the leash to drive this ####### clown car ?   :X

oh, they do have wheels these kids - two wheels - the biking cabal is strong.  and goofy as all get out.  precious lil' tvvat waffles .... we are doomed.  pretty soon folks will be donning helmets and elbow/knee pads just to ####### walk down the block.

Come Back, Commander!   

 
rockaction said:
Wow. 

That’s partly a result of tough new rules imposed on young drivers and an explosion in ride-hailing and ride-sharing services. 

50 hours supervised. No wonder teens don't drive. I could barely back into a parking space and got my license. 

Yeesh. 

Nice topic, though, and good linked article. I'm beginning to think, like the article, that graduated restrictions and hours on the road prior to licensure might have something to do with this rather than something wrong with the youth and their desire for independence. Even youth reacts to government restrictions like these.  
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BTW, if it came off as a knock on these yutes, it wasn't really meant to be. I do notice they don't seem to be as independent, but on the driving thing, fewer 16-18 year olds driving is probably a good thing for society. Just curious from their perspective why they don't want to.

 
pollardsvision said:
BTW, if it came off as a knock on these yutes, it wasn't really meant to be. I do notice they don't seem to be as independent, but on the driving thing, fewer 16-18 year olds driving is probably a good thing for society. Just curious from their perspective why they don't want to.
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It didn't, really. I was just extrapolating .  No biggie. I like this generation of non-millennial kids. They seem to be really polite and prefer chauffeurs. Hands dirty and all that. Plus, otb_lifer was making some good points about the restrictions on driving and the type of cars that cities might lend themselves to. 

By the way, that pic of the car @otb_lifer

:lmao:

Who drives that??? 

 
rockaction said:
It didn't, really. I was just extrapolating .  No biggie. I like this generation of non-millennial kids. They seem to be really polite and prefer chauffeurs. Hands dirty and all that. Plus, otb_lifer was making some good points about the restrictions on driving and the type of cars that cities might lend themselves to. 

By the way, that pic of the car @otb_lifer

:lmao:

Who drives that??? 
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Yeah, the restrictions are steep. Though, I doubt it would've been much of a deterrent years ago. We had the year with a learner's permit at 15 thing. For most people, for that year, if a parent (or sibling) and the 15 year old were in the car at the same time, the 15 was driving. 

I like that "really polite and prefer chauffeurs". Seems pretty accurate from what I've seen. Hell, to these kids, if they could be time warped back to 1995, they'd think we were all ####### delinquents. 

 
rockaction said:
It didn't, really. I was just extrapolating .  No biggie. I like this generation of non-millennial kids. They seem to be really polite and prefer chauffeurs. Hands dirty and all that. Plus, otb_lifer was making some good points about the restrictions on driving and the type of cars that cities might lend themselves to. 

By the way, that pic of the car @otb_lifer

:lmao:

Who drives that??? 
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THEM.

 
I'd be in shock if my kids didn't want to drive as soon as they can but it wouldn't be that big of a deal to me.  That probably means that I don't need to get them a car nor do I need to put them on my insurance.   

 
My nephew has basically no interest in getting his license.  I have no idea how that can even happen.  When i was in high school I don't think I knew anyone who didn't get their license right away unless they weren't allowed to or something.  

As a parent, F that, I would demand they get their license, just like I make sure they go to school, do chores................It won't be a choice.  

 
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My 15 year old got his permit the month he turned. He’s getting his license as close to his birthday as we can get his appointment scheduled. The we won’t have to cart his butt to practices and games anymore, which will be a godsend (I currently have 3 kids in sports pretty much year round and feel like a freaking cab service).

 
There are probably a lot of sociological factors. 

1) A general trend of growing up much slower. When I was 13 or so, I couldn't wait to grow up, get a license, get a job, earn some money, etc. Partially, at least, was because mom wasn't an on-demand chauffeur, and I had no money to do/buy anything. Most parents now handle those things a lot more than mine did (for age perspective, I was 10 in 1976).

2) My license at 16 was preceded by 6 years of jumping on my bike and going just about anywhere I wanted. No public transportation where I grew up, but my friends and I could bike a few miles out to get to places. So I was used to a lot of freedom, and a  license / car was a natural extension of that. I don't see many 14 year olds now just jumping on their bike and going somewhere miles away.

3) Economic in the sense that parents today want their kids to have a safe, somewhat new car, and they buy it for them. Miles away from my 72 Pontiac LeMans I bought myself for $500 I earned that summer. 

None of the above is meant to be "sheesh, kids today". It's just different, for better or worse.

 
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My son (now 23) tested for his learners permit on his 15th birthday. Prior to turning 15, he was riding his bike everywhere.

My daughter (now19) has little interest in driving. She is frank about the fact that she doesn't want the responsibility of operating a car. She has experienced three auto collisions while being a passenger, all before she was 7. We aren't talking fender benders. Each time the vehicle she was in was totaled (One with me, one her mom, and one a family friend. All fault on other drivers). So fear plays a big part as well.

 
Definitely a thing among my friends and neighbors.  I agree one of the factors is parents willing to drive their kids everywhere. I was picking my son up from soccer practice a while back. Looking at the long line of cars, parents waiting for their 12-14 yr old boys, I thought - when I was a kid we’d all have come here on our bikes. I have a neighbor who drives his son to college and picks him up several times each year. It’s about 2 hours away. Junior in college and doesn’t drive.

 
pollardsvision said:
BTW, if it came off as a knock on these yutes, it wasn't really meant to be. I do notice they don't seem to be as independent, but on the driving thing, fewer 16-18 year olds driving is probably a good thing for society.
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:goodposting: I'd be fine with no new additional drivers on the roads.

 
My wife's cousin just turned 21 and doesn't drive.  We thought this was crazy, but I guess it shows how old and out of touch I am. 

 
Lutherman2112 said:
My son (now 23) tested for his learners permit on his 15th birthday. Prior to turning 15, he was riding his bike everywhere.

My daughter (now19) has little interest in driving. She is frank about the fact that she doesn't want the responsibility of operating a car. She has experienced three auto collisions while being a passenger, all before she was 7. We aren't talking fender benders. Each time the vehicle she was in was totaled (One with me, one her mom, and one a family friend. All fault on other drivers). So fear plays a big part as well.
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I guess that's the difference between boys and girls. A boy would want his license so he can drive himself so the other dolts won't crash the car. :excited:

 
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mr roboto said:
There was a long article (I think in the Atlantic) about kids delaying many markers of independence (dating, driving, first sexual experience etc). It correlates very strongly with the smart phone iirc. 

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/09/has-the-smartphone-destroyed-a-generation/534198/
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Yep. Part of why we wanted to drive asap was we were bored at home and wanted to be with our friends. Social media and video games seem to reduce that need a fair amount for a lot of people.

 
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My son is eager to drive.  Went for his temporary license last week on the day he was eligible...15 1/2 in Ohio.  Right now he is too busy (sports, robotics, clubs, etc...) to get the coursework and road hours done.  But he has 6 months.  We'll work it in.  He wants to drive as soon as possible.

 
Kids in high school now are definitely different. The weirdest part is how little "flirting" I see between males and females. Dating doesn't seem to be on the radar for too many. 

 
A lot of the root causes have been discussed, but two comments that relate to one another.

As to how will people get jobs, the greatest job creation and opportunity, especially for the knowledge sector / young workforce are ever more located in urban areas. Core cities, smaller downtowns, urban mixed use centers. Reliance on the auto has given way in terms of consumer preference to mobility choices with an emphasis on walkability (two key indicators: 1. land in walkable urban places is up to twice as valuable in terms of land value, rent premiums etc on average as compared to those that are only driveable suburban in nature and 2. In the current real estate cycle, market share has shifted to a net loss (and at times significant loss) of market share for suburban driveable vs urban and walakable). And you know why these jobs are generally located in the cities/urban nodes?

There is far greater market preference from young workers for more urban living options. Even as millennial evolve and are now buying homes you see significant price premiums for homes located near these walkable neighborhoods and downtowns. 

I just gave a talk on this Sunday in New Orleans in fact. Talent is the greatest driver of corporate real estate decisions today, and talent generally wants to live in or at least near urban walkable vibrant centres of commerce and culture. Becomes a self fulfilling prophecy as then the jobs are located there.

As far as driving trends, the growing demand for walkable urban has essentially mirrored the decrease in desire for drivers licences which have been falling for years now. The kids don't want the lifestyle we grew up in - for many, cars are not independence but a limiting factor and something that ties you down... they want mobility options and walkable hoods  more than generations past... just the pendulum swinging back to equilibrium after building auto dependent environments, almost exclusively, for decades 

 
Hipsters seem to want to ride bike everywhere and take pride in not driving. After living in a large city for a couple years, I'm still surprised at the weather conditions people will ride bike. Winters in my area are not pleasant. I'll see people riding bike in below freezing temps or in large amounts of fresh snowfall. The other day I had someone bragging to me about how they rode every day in the winter. I don't understand it.

 
sports_fan said:
Hipsters seem to want to ride bike everywhere and take pride in not driving. After living in a large city for a couple years, I'm still surprised at the weather conditions people will ride bike. Winters in my area are not pleasant. I'll see people riding bike in below freezing temps or in large amounts of fresh snowfall. The other day I had someone bragging to me about how they rode every day in the winter. I don't understand it.
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I blame Koya 

 
Ilov80s said:
Kids in high school now are definitely different. The weirdest part is how little "flirting" I see between males and females. Dating doesn't seem to be on the radar for too many. 
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Hey Gramps, flirting these days is done purely through social media. You know, "liking" the new profile picture, emojis, etc. Try and keep up, eh?

 
Stepson is 16 (17 in July) and still doesn't have enough "practice" hours on his learner permit to get his license.  And seems in no hurry to do so.

Which is OK with me considering his older sister basically doubled our insurance (WITHOUT adding a 3rd car), and boys tend to make it go up more yet. He's not really social and rarely needs to be driven anywhere so it doesn't seem like it will be a great inconvenience.

 
Apple Jack said:
Yep. Part of why we wanted to drive asap was we were bored at home and wanted to be with our friends. Social media and video games seem to reduce that need a fair amount for a lot of people.
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16 YO daughter of a girl at work had $500 burning a hole in her pocket a few months before she turned 16. She had to have new phone, and it had to be an iPhone. I brought up the idea that that $500 might be better put towards a car (and a much cheaper phone). The 16 YO looked at me like I had 3 heads. Now, her social life is much like that article. And she's got no car and no good way to reliably get to a job to pay the monthly phone bill. She doesn't care much, as she spends all day in her room with wifi.

It's also interesting talking to the parents I work with when it comes dating and such. The parents would lose their minds if their own kids were doing anything resembling what they were doing from ages 15-18. The kids don't have the desire to put themselves in the dangerous situations that we did, and the parents certainly seem happy with that. It's interesting to me to see how these kids develop towards adulthood, having very little experience doing things on their own or even really interacting with humans (relative to previous generations). As the article mentions, the physical safety probably comes at a cost to mental health.

 
My son is 21 and doesn't have his license.  

He attends college in Philly and just uses public transportation, trains/subway mostly.  Occasionally Uber.  He can get to school and back when necessary on the train via 2 different routes.  His internship was in Center City so he'll take the train from either his school or home.  He also can't really have a car at his school so the urgency for a license isn't there, although he has at least acknowledged that he needs to get one.  He wants to work in the city so he'll continue to use public transportation when possible.  He graduates at the end of June and getting his license should be his top priority after finding a job.

The only thing he really does when home is bowl and I drive him to his tournaments.  So far it hasn't been problematic.

 
Apple Jack said:
Yep. Part of why we wanted to drive asap was we were bored at home and wanted to be with our friends. Social media and video games seem to reduce that need a fair amount for a lot of people.
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And that's bad IMO. Doesn't replace actual face to face interaction.

 
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