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Tell me the "All-Time Offense" (11 individual players) (1 Viewer)

Raider Nation

Devil's Advocate
A few ground rules before we begin:

1) You may construct your offense in any of the following fashions:

- 2 RBs & 2 WRs, -or- 1 RB & 3 WRs. You must have EXACTLY 1 TE.

2) You can only list the player if he had the bulk of his success with YOUR franchise.

- Example: If you are a Seahawks fan, don't try to get away with listing Franco Harris.

3) You may "shuffle" only your guards and tackles.

- Example: If your franchise's two best tackles each played LT, you may put one of them at RT.

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My Raiders are fairly easy.

Unfortunately, almost everyone on this list played 100 years ago. :bag:

QB - Ken Stabler

RB - Marcus Allen

WR - Tim Brown

WR - Cliff Branch

WR - Fred Biletnikoff

TE - Dave Casper

LT - Art Shell

LG - Gene Upshaw

C - Jim Otto

RG - Steve Wisniewski

RT - Lincoln Kennedy

If any of my Raider pals disagree with this list, feel free to yell at me. :popcorn:

 
You say franchise, so I'll include the Houston Oilers.

QB: Warren Moon (Blanda/McNair)

RB: Earl Campbell

RB: Eddie George

WR: Ernest Givens

WR: Charley Hennigan

(not known for great WRs)

TE: Frank Wychek

LT: Brad Hopkins

LG: Bruce Matthews

C: Bob Schmidt

RG: Mike Munchak

RT: Al Jamison

The OL is tough, the WRs are rough. The Titans and Oilers have almost always been a running team - although they do have Moon.

 
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QB: Roger Staubach

RB: Tony Dorsett

RB: Emmitt Smith

WR: Bob Hayes

WR: Michael Irvin

TE: Jason Witten

LT: Mark Tuinei

LG: John Niland

C: Mark Stepnoski

RG: Larry Allen

RT: Rayfield Wright

 
New England Patriots:

QB: Brady

RB: Sam Cunningham

WR: Troy Brown (slight edge over Stanley Morgan, since Moss is the deep threat)

WR: Randy Moss (it's tough to say that he had his best success with the Pats, so I'm open to putting Stanley Morgan here)

WR: Wes Welker

TE: Ben Coates

LT: Bruce Armstrong

LG: John Hannah

C: Jon Morris

RG: Logan Mankins

RT: Matt Light

 
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You say franchise, so I'll include the Houston Oilers.QB: Warren Moon (Blanda/McNair)RB: Earl Campbell RB: Eddie GeorgeWR: Ernest GivensWR: Charley Hennigan(not known for great WRs)TE: Frank WychekLT: Brad HopkinsLG: Bruce MatthewsC: Bob SchmidtRG: Mike MunchakRT: Al JamisonThe OL is tough, the WRs are rough. The Titans and Oilers have almost always been a running team - although they do have Moon.
Good list. I'd probably go with Drew HIll or Derrick Mason for the other WR slot opposite Givens (who, surprisingly, never led the team in receiving yards in a season). Hard to leave McNair off, but Moon is a worthy choice.
 
I'll take a shot for the Dolphins. Had to go three WRs with Dan at QB:

QB Dan Marino

RB1 Larry Csonka

WR1 Paul Warfield

WR2 Mark Clayton

WR3 Nat Moore

TE Jim Mandich

LT Richmond Webb

LG Ed Newman

C Dwight Stevenson

RG Larry Little

RT Bob Kuechenberg

 
The Jets roster isn't too hard - only two toss ups, IMO:

QB: Namath

RB: Curtis Martin

RB: Freeman McNeil was the 2nd best running back in Jets history. But Richie Anderson or Emerson Boozer or Matt Snell would probably serve as better complements to Martin.

WR: Don Maynard

WR: Could put a bunch of guys here; Sauer would be a fine pick. Toon would probably be the best complement. Coles/Keyshawn/Walker all were very good at one time. Sauer and Toon retired early, whiles Coles/Keyshawn went to other teams. Walker wouldn't be a great complement to Maynard. I'll go with Toon here.

LT: Winston Hill

LG: Randy Rasmussen

C: Kevin Mawae

RG: Dan Alexander

RT: Marvin Powell

 
QB -- Otto Graham (Kosar, Sipe)

FB -- Marion Mottley

RB -- Jim Brown

WR -- Paul Warfield

WR -- Dante Lavelli

TE -- Ozzie Newsome

LT -- Joe Thomas

LG -- Steinbach

C -- Mack

LG -- Hickerson

RT -- Schafrath

 
QB: Dave Krieg

RB: Curt Warner

FB: John L Williams

LT: Walter Jones

LG: Steve Hutchinson

C: Robbie Tobeck

RG: Edwin Bailey

RT: Steve August

TE: Itula Mili

WR: Steve Largent

WR: Darrell Jackson

Players that came up just short... QB Matt Hasselbeck, C Blair Bush, G Edwin Bailey, G Chris Gray, WR Brian Blades, RB Shaun Alexander

 
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Steelers

QB- Ben Roethlisberger ( :lmao: couldn't resist.)

FB- Franco Harris

TB- Jerome Bettis

WR- John Stallworth

WR- Hines Ward

TE- Elbie Nickle

LT- John Kolb

LG- Alan Faneca

C- Christ this is tough to call....I'm going Dawson unless I can cheap out put him at G since he played there in '88.

RG- Sam Davis, for longevity more than anything(Abilitywise, it was probably Carlton Haselrig.)

RT- Tunch Ilkin

 
QB -- Otto Graham (Kosar, Sipe)FB -- Marion MottleyRB -- Jim BrownWR -- Paul WarfieldWR -- Dante LavelliTE -- Ozzie NewsomeLT -- Joe ThomasLG -- SteinbachC -- MackLG -- HickersonRT -- Schafrath
I think you want to re-work that offensive line. Joe Thomas over Lou Groza is indefensible and Mack (is it Alex? Am I forgetting some Mack for Cleveland, because I really don't know how it could be Alex) over Frank Gatski is even more nuts. I'd throw Jim Ray Smith over Steinbach, too.
 
SteelersQB- Ben Roethlisberger ( :thumbup: couldn't resist.)FB- Franco HarrisTB- Jerome BettisWR- John StallworthWR- Hines WardTE- Elbie NickleLT- John KolbLG- Alan FanecaC- Christ this is tough to call....I'm going Dawson unless I can cheap out put him at G since he played there in '88.RG- Sam Davis, for longevity more than anything(Abilitywise, it was probably Carlton Haselrig.)RT- Tunch Ilkin
I'm sure you meant Bradshaw... :lmao:
 
Before all the 'forum Matlocks' have a collective brain hemorrhage, the Roethlisberger entry is a gag. It's easily Bradshaw at this point.

(Oh, I see I'm too late already. You guys must have an alert for the word "Roethlisberger" setup)

 
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QB -- Otto Graham (Kosar, Sipe)

FB -- Marion Mottley

RB -- Jim Brown

WR -- Paul Warfield

WR -- Dante Lavelli

TE -- Ozzie Newsome

LT -- Joe Thomas

LG -- Steinbach

C -- Mack

LG -- Hickerson

RT -- Schafrath
:goodposting: Lou Groza, Joe DeLamielleure and Frank Gatski there for sure.

 
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I'll take a shot at the 'Skins:

QB - Sonny Jurgensen

RB - Cliff Battles

RB - John Riggins

WR - Bobby Mitchell

WR - Art Monk

TE - Jerry Smith

T - Turk Edwards

T - Chris Samuels

C - Len Hauss

G - Russ Grimm

G - Joe Jacoby (cheated a little on this one)

 
I'll take a shot at the 'Skins:QB - Sonny JurgensenRB - Cliff BattlesRB - John RigginsWR - Bobby MitchellWR - Art MonkTE - Jerry SmithT - Turk EdwardsT - Chris SamuelsC - Len HaussG - Russ GrimmG - Joe Jacoby (cheated a little on this one)
If you're going to go back to the Battles days, then there's one and only one QB for the Redskins.
 
I'll take a shot at the 'Skins:QB - Sonny JurgensenRB - Cliff BattlesRB - John RigginsWR - Bobby MitchellWR - Art MonkTE - Jerry SmithT - Turk EdwardsT - Chris SamuelsC - Len HaussG - Russ GrimmG - Joe Jacoby (cheated a little on this one)
If you're going to go back to the Battles days, then there's one and only one QB for the Redskins.
:goodposting:I certainly don't begrudge anyone picking Baugh over Jurgensen. It certainly isn't a given either way. But for my money, it's Jurgensen every day of the week.
 
Chicago Bears

QB: Sid Luckman

RB: Walter Payton, Neil Anderson

WR: George "Papa Bear" Hallas (He actually played WR during his playing days) Tom Waddle

TE: Mike Ditka

T: James "Big Cat" Williams

G: George Musso

C: Olin Kruetz

G: Ruben Brown

T: John Tait

Return Specialist: Gale Sayers

 
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KC Chiefs:

QB -- Trent Green (Len Dawson)

FB -- Tony Richardson

RB -- Priest Holmes (Larry Johnson)

WR -- Otis Taylor

WR -- Carlos Carson (Eddie Kennison)

TE -- Tony Gonzalez

LT -- Willie Roaf (did have 4 Pro Bowls in KC)

LG -- Brian Waters

C -- Casey Wiegmann

LG -- Will Shields

RT -- Jim Tyrer

 
Buffalo Bills all time team

QB- Jim Kelly

RB- OJ Simpson

RB- Thurman Thomas

WR- Andre Reed

WR- Eric Moulds

TE- Ernie Warlick (sorry Pete)

LT- Billy Shaw

LG- Joe Delamielleure

C- Kent Hull (or Jim Richter)

RG- Reuben Brown

RT- Stew Barber

 
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I feel like the Bills all time team would obliterate every team on this list. Is this just me being nostalgic?

:goodposting: :fro: :bag:

 
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I'll take a shot at the 'Skins:QB - Sonny JurgensenRB - Cliff BattlesRB - John RigginsWR - Bobby MitchellWR - Art MonkTE - Jerry SmithT - Turk EdwardsT - Chris SamuelsC - Len HaussG - Russ GrimmG - Joe Jacoby (cheated a little on this one)
I think most older guys would put Charley Taylor in over Monk or Mitchell. Even though I never saw either Taylor or Mitchell play, I've always been partial to Mitchell for some reason.Jim Lachey also deserves consideration at T.
 
I'll take a shot at the 'Skins:QB - Sonny JurgensenRB - Cliff BattlesRB - John RigginsWR - Bobby MitchellWR - Art MonkTE - Jerry SmithT - Turk EdwardsT - Chris SamuelsC - Len HaussG - Russ GrimmG - Joe Jacoby (cheated a little on this one)
I think most older guys would put Charley Taylor in over Monk or Mitchell. Even though I never saw either Taylor or Mitchell play, I've always been partial to Mitchell for some reason.Jim Lachey also deserves consideration at T.
I had a hard time deciding between Taylor and Mitchell. Either are very deserving. Like you, I've always been partial to Mitchell, too. Not sure why, though.I considered Lachey, but I just didn't think he was good enough, long enough. 3 1st team All Pros in a row is hard to ignore, but I liked Samuels longevity better. And I certainly wasn't going to bump off a HOFer (Edwards) for Lachey. :)Realistically, Jacoby should probably be the other tackle, but I couldn't find another guard I really liked for this. :)
 
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QB: Fouts

RB: LT

WR: Lance Alworth

WR: Charlie Joiner

WR: Wes Chandler

TE: Kellen Winslow

T: Russ Washington

G: Ed White

C: Nick Hardwick

G: Walt Sweeney

T: Ron Mix

 
For the Saints, without researching:

QB - Drew Brees (the longevity will come)

RB - Deuce McAllister

RB - Dalton Hilliard (shortish career, but great at his peak)

WR - Joe Horn

WR - Marcus Colston (again, the longevity will come)

TE - Hoby Brenner (a soft-handed blocking type, very clutch)

LT - Willie Roaf

LG - Jahri Evans (again, the longevity will come)

C - John Hill (held down the C slot forever in the 70s-80s)

RG - Brad Edelmlan (short but excellent peak, injured during some prime years)

RT - Stan Brock

PK - Morten Andersen

Honorable mentions (or 2nd string): QB Archie Manning, RB George Rogers (stud who was derailed by cocaine), FB Hokie Gajan (a great I-formation battering ram, wouldn't have a place in today's NFL), WR Eric Martin, G Carl Nicks (will pass Edelman with two more strong seasons), T Jammal Brown (great early career, needs to battle back from injuries)

 
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QB -- Otto Graham (Kosar, Sipe)

FB -- Marion Mottley

RB -- Jim Brown

WR -- Paul Warfield

WR -- Dante Lavelli

TE -- Ozzie Newsome

LT -- Joe Thomas

LG -- Steinbach

C -- Mack

LG -- Hickerson

RT -- Schafrath
:thumbup: Lou Groza, Joe DeLamielleure and Frank Gatski there for sure.
DeLamielleure would violate RN's rule in the OP. Groza and Gatski for sure.
I wanted Joe D, but I have to admit he wasn't primarily ours. In fact the same thing might be said for Warfield. I saw & loved Groza, but I think Joe Thomas is better. Finally, I really stretched it at center -- didn't even think of Gatski ;) -- and went with our current guy who I THINK will turn out to be one of the greats (I hope). I was tempted to put LeCharles Bentley in there since he was a Cleveland native.
 
KC Chiefs:QB -- Trent Green (Len Dawson)FB -- Tony RichardsonRB -- Priest Holmes (Larry Johnson)WR -- Otis TaylorWR -- Carlos Carson (Eddie Kennison)TE -- Tony GonzalezLT -- Willie Roaf (did have 4 Pro Bowls in KC)LG -- Brian WatersC -- Casey WiegmannLG -- Will ShieldsRT -- Jim Tyrer
I'm by no means a Chiefs historian, so I have no idea about their historic WR's. But seeing Kennison mentioned in a thread like this is pitiful. I feel bad for your franchise if this is true.
 
I'll take a shot at the 'Skins:

QB - Sonny Jurgensen

RB - Cliff Battles

RB - John Riggins

WR - Bobby Mitchell

WR - Art Monk

TE - Jerry Smith

T - Turk Edwards

T - Chris Samuels

C - Len Hauss

G - Russ Grimm

G - Joe Jacoby (cheated a little on this one)
I think most older guys would put Charley Taylor in over Monk or Mitchell. Even though I never saw either Taylor or Mitchell play, I've always been partial to Mitchell for some reason.Jim Lachey also deserves consideration at T.
I had a hard time deciding between Taylor and Mitchell. Either are very deserving. Like you, I've always been partial to Mitchell, too. Not sure why, though.
I have them neck and neck in my receiver rankings: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=1486Here's an article I wrote about both players: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=1442

 
:confused: to putting Stabler on your roster over Lamonica.
:confused: What is your fascination with The Mad Bomber? He was good. Stabler was better.

Besides, you already attempted this crusade and the people spoke.

Lamonica

62-16-6 record. Twice led the AFL in touchdown passes and once led the league in passing yardage.

UPI Player of the Year twice, first in 1967 and then again two years later in 1969.

Stabler

69-26-1 record. Threw for more yards and touchdowns than any other Raider QB.

Lead the league in touchdown passes twice.

Named the 1974 NFL MVP.

Played in four Pro Bowls. All-Pro twice.

Lead the Raiders to their first Super Bowl victory.

If you want to disagree, that's fine. But a "thumbs down" for my Stabler selection is a joke.

 
QB: FoutsRB: LTWR: Lance AlworthWR: Charlie JoinerWR: Wes ChandlerTE: Kellen WinslowT: Russ WashingtonG: Ed WhiteC: Nick HardwickG: Walt SweeneyT: Ron Mix
Holy ####. I would hate to be the defensive coordinator game-planning against that team. :confused:
 
Eagles:

QB: Donovan McNabb (could put Van Broclin back there too)

RB: Brian Westbrook (could also swap out Steve Van Buren as well)

RB: Wilbert Montgomery

WR: Tommy McDonald

WR: Terrell Owens

WR: Harold Carmichael (Chris Carter and Mike Quick could also make the list as well)

TE: Pete Retzlaff

LT: Bob Brown

LG: Bucko Kilroy (what a name)

C: Jim Ringo

RG: Jermaine Mayberry

RT: Al Wistert

 
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The Jets roster isn't too hard - only two toss ups, IMO:QB: NamathRB: Curtis MartinRB: Freeman McNeil was the 2nd best running back in Jets history. But Richie Anderson or Emerson Boozer or Matt Snell would probably serve as better complements to Martin.WR: Don MaynardWR: Could put a bunch of guys here; Sauer would be a fine pick. Toon would probably be the best complement. Coles/Keyshawn/Walker all were very good at one time. Sauer and Toon retired early, whiles Coles/Keyshawn went to other teams. Walker wouldn't be a great complement to Maynard. I'll go with Toon here.LT: Winston HillLG: Randy RasmussenC: Kevin MawaeRG: Dan AlexanderRT: Marvin Powell
TE: Mickey Shuler
 
For the Detroit Lions:

QB - Bobby Layne

RB - Barry Sanders

RB - Doak Walker (For his ability to play multiple positions....Billy Sims was considered)

WR - Herman Moore

WR - Gail Cogdill (Calvin will likely move into the starting role sooner rather than later)

TE - Charlie Sanders

OT - Lou Creekmur

OT - Lomas Brown

C - Alex Wojciechowicz

OG - Harley Sewell

OG - John Gordy

 
QB - Ken StablerRB - Marcus AllenWR - Tim BrownWR - Cliff BranchWR - Fred BiletnikoffTE - Dave CasperLT - Art ShellLG - Gene UpshawC - Jim OttoRG - Steve WisniewskiRT - Lincoln KennedyIf any of my Raider pals disagree with this list, feel free to yell at me. :wall:
TE Todd Christensen
 
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QB - Jay Cutler

RB - Payton - HOF

RB - Sayers - HOF

WR - Curtis Conway

WR - Jeff Graham

TE - Ditka - HOF

LT - William R. Lyman - HOF - is credited with pioneering the shifting pre-snap style of line play.

LG - Stan Jones - HOF - Besides being a seven-time Pro Bowl guard, Jones switched to DT in 1963 and started on the Bears' title team.

C - George Trafton - HOF

RG - Dan Fortmann - HOF - was the premier guard in football and superb tackler. Bears were 72-19-2 and won three titles in his eight seasons.

RT - George Musso - HOF

 
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:thumbup: to putting Stabler on your roster over Lamonica.
:goodposting: What is your fascination with The Mad Bomber? He was good. Stabler was better.If you want to disagree, that's fine. But a "thumbs down" for my Stabler selection is a joke.
Chase has his formula. He's put all the data into the formula and determined all the rankings. Whenever someone posts some ranking that goes against his formula's results, he is amazed and can't believe that anyone would think such nonsense.
 
QB - Ken StablerRB - Marcus AllenWR - Tim BrownWR - Cliff BranchWR - Fred BiletnikoffTE - Dave CasperLT - Art ShellLG - Gene UpshawC - Jim OttoRG - Steve WisniewskiRT - Lincoln KennedyIf any of my Raider pals disagree with this list, feel free to yell at me. :thumbup:
TE Todd Christensen
It's not an outlandish suggestion, but I wanted more of an in-line blocker for this squad.Besides, nobody with a perm makes my team.
 
:thumbup: to putting Stabler on your roster over Lamonica.
:goodposting: What is your fascination with The Mad Bomber? He was good. Stabler was better.

Besides, you already attempted this crusade and the people spoke.

Lamonica

62-16-6 record. Twice led the AFL in touchdown passes and once led the league in passing yardage.

UPI Player of the Year twice, first in 1967 and then again two years later in 1969.

Stabler

69-26-1 record. Threw for more yards and touchdowns than any other Raider QB.

Lead the league in touchdown passes twice.

Named the 1974 NFL MVP.

Played in four Pro Bowls. All-Pro twice.

Lead the Raiders to their first Super Bowl victory.

If you want to disagree, that's fine. But a "thumbs down" for my Stabler selection is a joke.
Lamonica had the better record and the better stats. Lamonica was more efficient and more productive.Have I linked to this before? http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=3203

Stabler had two fantastic seasons -- and then a bunch of solid ones. He was also in a system where he wasn't asked to do as much -- in those two years, he threw only 601 passes, combined. and in those years, he was playing with Shell and Upshaw in their primes, Branch in his prime, and a still very good Fred Biletnikoff. In '74 Otto was still there and in '76 Casper was huge. Now Lamonica had a bunch of talent, too, but I think it's worth noting that Stabler had only two huge efficiency seasons, then came with a bunch of talent around him, and they came on not too many pass attempts (considering those seasons look like outliers, it's reasonable to assume that the low number of attempts was at least a part of why his efficiency numbers were so good). The analysis I've done also indicates that Stabler faced a notably easier schedule than Lamonica, although that's never a huge factor.

Lamonica, meanwhile, threw for over 400 passes in '67, '68 and '69. Those seasons, the Raiders lost just four games. Lamonica was fantastic for three seasons, not two, and in 1970 he put up another very strong season (better than Stabler's third best season). The two QBs stand out for having six great seasons, and Lamonica had four of those great years. He also never had the terrible season that Stabler had in '78.

I think people put Stabler ahead of Lamonica because he was post-merger and he was more recent. That's understandable, but not a good reason. Undoubtedly some put him ahead because of the ring, and I'd put that in the same boat -- understandable, but not a good reason. Many NFL fans don't appreciate Lamonica, which is sad. But for a Raiders fan, I think it deserves a thumb down. What makes you say "he was good" but that "Stabler was better?"

 
Buffalo Bills all time teamQB- Jim KellyRB- OJ Simpson RB- Thurman ThomasWR- Andre ReedWR- Eric MouldsTE- Ernie Warlick (sorry Pete)LT- Billy ShawLG- Joe DelamielleureC- Kent Hull (or Jim Richter)RG- Reuben BrownRT- Stew Barber
Exactly what I was thinking, except I would have put Metz at TE over Warlick...
 

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