Chase Stuart
Footballguy
If Stabler was better than Lamonica, why did Lamonica have a better record?Chase, you're obviously young and stubborn and that's fine. I was once too. You're probably way too young to see them both play. I did see them both and I saw the Jets game. The wind didn't grab the ball on the throw Lamonica choked on. I'm not going to go back and check the weather reports (you probably will), but Namath threw for a bunch of yards too so I'm sure the winds weren't that much of a factor that day. By the way they weren't Super Bowl champs when they played and it wasn't "considered" a lateral—it was a lateral...a choking lateral.You say in Lamonica's "prime" he was 4-3. That says a lot right there. In his "prime" he wasn't much better than .500. And you talk about him facing tough teams? Stabler was stuck with the in their prime Steelers during his best days, teams with better defenses than Lamonica EVER saw. If Lamonica would have faced those Steelers teams he would have wet his pants and then crapped 'em for good measure. Heck, even Stabler was lousy in some games against the Steelers.You're really reaching on this now, Chase. The majority that on this thread that DID see both play say Stabler was better. I'm not sure what else to tell ya, but numbers aren't everything.I think your standards are crazy. He threw for 401 yards against the Super Bowl champs, playing in the swirling winds at Shea Stadium in December (think that might have to do with why that pass was considered a lateral?), and you want to call that a bad game? The same Jets defense that, in the Super Bowl, forced Earl Morrall -- aka the NFL MVP -- to go 6/17 for 71 yards, with 3 INTs and 0 points? His prime was from '67 to '70. Over that stretch he went 4-3 excluding the Colts game where he left with an injury; all three of his losses came to the eventual Super Bowl champ, all of whom had really good defenses. In that time he had one of the most absurdly good playoff games of any QB of any era. And in the regular season he won a higher percentage of his starts than anyone that's played the game since then. So no, I don't think he was a choker. He was a high risk, high reward QB. Sometimes, like in basketball where you live by the 3, die by the 3, you can lose some big games that way. A vertical offense tends to increase a team's variance; it's not unusual for a high variance team to lose key games. But even still, I'm not sure you can point to a single playoff game Lamonica lost when he QB'ed the better team. And it's not like the guy we're comparing him to had an unblemished playoff record, either.As an aside, you're more than old enough to use more mature phrases than wet the bed, and I think it really detracts from your overall post.Lamonica didn't have SOME great playoff moments. He had TWO.Here's a breakdown:1967AFL Championship—Raiders clobber Oilers 40-7. Lamonica is only 10 for 24, good for 111 yards. He does throw 2 TDs.Super Bowl—Raiders clobbered 33-14. Lamonica is only 15 for 34, good for 208 yards. Another 2 TDs, but only 1 when it matters. He wet the bed. But I'll give him a pass for this one. Any AFL QB probably would have shriveled up against the Packers.1968AFL playoff—Raiders clobber Chiefs 41-6. Lamonica completes only 19 of 39 passes but they go for 347 yards and 5 scores. Great? Absolutely.AFL Championship—Raiders lose 27-23. Lamonica does throw for 401 yards but completes only 20 of 47 passes and just 1 for a score. If that's not bad enough, trailing by 4 late but driving the Raiders, Lamonica throws a swing pass BEHIND Charlie Smith. Ralph Baker of the Jets picks it up and the Raiders season ends. I repeat, Lamonica throws it BEHIND his intended receiver. He wet his pants.1969AFL playoff—Raiders clobber Oilers 56-14. Lamonica is called on to throw just 17 times but connects for 6 scores. Great? Absolutely. AFL Championship—Raiders lose—at home—to Chiefs 17-7. Perhaps the wettingest incident of them all. Lamonica completes 15 of 39 yards for 1 TD and 3 picks. Passer rating 19.9. In the 1970 playoffs, he completed 8 of 16 passes for 2 TDs in one game, and then just 1 of 4 before leaving with an injury in the the AFC title game against the Colts. No playoffs in 1971. In 1972, he was 6 for 18 before being pulled in the Immaculate Reception Game that Snake almost pulled out. That game was, effectively, the changing of the guard for Raider QBs.So Lamonica was in 9 playoff games, was great in 2 and the rest were unmemorable if not downright embarrassing. And the only time he was great was in a couple blowouts. When things got tight, he couldn't come through. Lamonica's playoff record as a Raider QB was 4-5.Stabler's playoff record with the Raiders was 7-4 and he was great in the Sea of Hands game (20 of 30/293/3 and the game-winner with less than a minute to play—against the defending champs no less); was great in another close one, the 1975 playoff game against the Bengals the Raiders won 31-28 (17 of 23/199/3); and the Ghost to the Post game (21 of 40/345/3 and drove the Raiders to a tying field goal in the waning seconds of regulation and tossed the winning score in the second overtime period).I'm too old to wasted my time arguing most subjects on this board, but not this one.Stabler was clearly better and should be the QB on any all-time Raider team.
to putting Stabler on your roster over Lamonica.
Stabler was clearly better and should be the QB on any all-time Raider team.
