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Terrance West vs Isaiah Crowell (1 Viewer)

Who is the Browns RB to own

  • Terrance West

    Votes: 208 48.9%

  • Isaiah Crowell

    Votes: 217 51.1%
  • Total voters
    425
Breakout or bust? Studying sophomore RBs: Part 2

Excerpt:

Terrance West & Isaiah Crowell, CLEPRIMER

The Browns signed the crown jewel of the free agent running back class in 2014 in Ben Tate, but he was eventually cut and it was a combination of Terrance West and Isaiah Crowell who led the charge on the ground. With new rookie Duke Johnson joining the mix, this will be a three-headed race for touches that could give fantasy owners fits all season long.

2014 IN REVIEW

West was a much touted sleeper among draftniks and fantasy fans alike, hailing from the small school of Towson. He notched 100 rushing yards in his first game, and surpassed 94 two other times en route to leading the team in rushing. West is a classic one-cut runner, who has solid vision and power, but lacks real breakaway speed. He is decisive in his reads and rarely gets tackled behind the line of scrimmage unless his blocking goes horribly wrong. Crowell is the bigger, faster, stronger back, with equally as good of vision. He was certainly the big-play threat in the backfield, and per Pro Football Focus had the fifth-highest breakaway percentage of running backs who had at least 25 percent of their team's carries. The only trouble with Crowell is that he sometimes waits too long trying to find a home-run hole and gets tackled for a big loss. On one particular play, he drifted along the line all the way to the sideline for an 8-yard loss instead of driving up field to make something out of nothing. But, the good far outweighs the bad with Crowell based on what he put on tape in 2014.

2015 AND BEYOND

I was really liking this tandem as a nice one-two fantasy punch in 2015, with both offering value in the RB2 to RB3 range, but now with Duke Johnson in the mix this backfield is completely muddled. Johnson figures to eat into the backfield targets, as the team has even reported giving him reps at wide receiver. That means West and Crowell will be duking it out for carries, likely both staying in the 10-15 range per game (if that). This is bad news for West, who was more of a volume runner in 2014. In the six games where he had 15 or more carries, he averaged 12-plus fantasy points per contest, versus a mere 3.4 in the nine where he had fewer than 15 totes (he was a healthy scratch in Week 6). Crowell on the other hand, given his propensity for the big play (and nose for the end zone) will have greater upside in Cleveland, even if Johnson gets a healthy amount of touches.

2015 DRAFT VALUE

Static: I'm breaking the rules here, but until we know more about how this backfield will look once the pads come on later in July, it is truly impossible to predict. If you're drafting before then, however, both West and Crowell (as well as Johnson) need to be drafted in standard leagues. There will be a leader in this backfield ... we'll just have to wait and see who it is.
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fredsavage said:
Browns are going to run the ball a record amount of times this year. Should be a good line. I'm buying on everyone including Duke at their market price.
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I agree they will run a lot.

Determining market price for each is the difficult part.

A 3 headed monster isn't very fantasy friendly.

It puts a RB2 ceiling on all 3.

 
Warpig said:
I've been offered Terrence West for my 5.01 rookie pick. This is a 16 team PPR/IDP league with salary cap and 40+ man rosters. I'm thinking about pulling the trigger. The only thing giving me pause is his contract of 6.5 mil. He was the 1.16 rookie pick last year.
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The severity of this is dependent on the total cap size, but assuming it's $143M, I'd say reject that deal unless you can cut him without penalty. It appears that the other guy is trying to offload his salary.

 
Sabertooth said:
Ojaays said:
fredsavage said:
Browns are going to run the ball a record amount of times this year. Should be a good line. I'm buying on everyone including Duke at their market price.
Click to expand...
I agree they will run a lot.Determining market price for each is the difficult part.

A 3 headed monster isn't very fantasy friendly.

It puts a RB2 ceiling on all 3.
Click to expand...
But somehow Jeremy Hill is top 10.
Click to expand...
No one in Cleveland's stable comes close to Hill in ability. Not even Duke. Not even close. And Im not saying top 10. I have Hill top 5 now.
 
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georg013 said:
Sabertooth said:
Ojaays said:
fredsavage said:
Browns are going to run the ball a record amount of times this year. Should be a good line. I'm buying on everyone including Duke at their market price.
Click to expand...
I agree they will run a lot.Determining market price for each is the difficult part.

A 3 headed monster isn't very fantasy friendly.

It puts a RB2 ceiling on all 3.
Click to expand...
But somehow Jeremy Hill is top 10.
Click to expand...
No one in Cleveland's stable comes close to Hill in ability. Not even Duke. Not even close. And Im not saying top 10. I have Hill top 5 now.
Click to expand...
Is that right?

Hm. I must have a foggy memory of crow in College

 
Soulfly3 said:
georg013 said:
Sabertooth said:
Ojaays said:
fredsavage said:
Browns are going to run the ball a record amount of times this year. Should be a good line. I'm buying on everyone including Duke at their market price.
Click to expand...
I agree they will run a lot.Determining market price for each is the difficult part.

A 3 headed monster isn't very fantasy friendly.

It puts a RB2 ceiling on all 3.
Click to expand...
But somehow Jeremy Hill is top 10.
Click to expand...
No one in Cleveland's stable comes close to Hill in ability. Not even Duke. Not even close. And Im not saying top 10. I have Hill top 5 now.
Click to expand...
Is that right?

Hm. I must have a foggy memory of crow in College
Click to expand...
Let me start by saying, I own Crow. And Hill. So I have done my homework. Crow had one eye opeing season at Georgia. Love his ability. But in the NFL, it has not translated the way Hill's has. That is a fact. At least not yet. Hill moved what many had as a top 5 back in Gio to the lessor part of a RBBC. Crow "potentially" got first team reps one day during OTAs. Think about that for a second. If Crow had shown Hill's production, there would be no Duke Johnson and we wouldn't be asking who is better, West or Crow. It would be Crow. The numbers don't lie Fly and you know it. Until Crow has the type of season Hill had, he shouldn't be talked about in the same breath. Best case scenario, Crow proves me wrong, wins the starting job with Johnson playing a Gio role to Hill's starter role. Then I party like Josh Gordon is back on the field. But until then, he takes a back seat to Hill. Easily.

 
Let me start by saying, I own Crow. And Hill. So I have done my homework. Crow had one eye opeing season at Georgia. Love his ability. But in the NFL, it has not translated the way Hill's has. That is a fact. At least not yet. -george013

Yeah, let's let the numbers do the talking on that one. Unfortunately Crowell didn't get to play against Cleveland twice last season, and won't this season. Likewise Crowell got to go up against Geno and the boys twice. So let's throw those out and look at apples to apples Common opponents last year.

Jeremy Hill scored about 12.41 PPG against common opponents. Crowell went for about 8.69 PPG.

Hill had around 50% more points in those games. Which is great. But that still doesn't prove to me that he was better. His usage stats were way higher than Crowell's. On a per touch basis against common opponents, Crowell was more effecient (i.e. better for the lay person).

Points per touch against common opponents was

Hill .81 PPT

Crowell .89 PPT

Hill got used a lot more. And if he gets 57% more usage than Crowell this year, then yeah I agree he will be a much better fantasy option. But that's not a given is it? Hill's usage is capped just like Crowell's is. I think West is firmly entrenched in the backup role this season behind 1a Crowell and 1b Johnson. I think his usage (barring injury of course) is going to be pretty much the same as Cedric Peerman or whoever is carrying the clip board in Cincy.

 
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For the sake of thread integrity, I won't get into a Hill/Crow debate here. I look forward to healthy Hill dialogue this season Saber! Should be fun! All I have to say is, just watch the man play!!!

 
Sabertooth said:
Ojaays said:
fredsavage said:
Browns are going to run the ball a record amount of times this year. Should be a good line. I'm buying on everyone including Duke at their market price.
Click to expand...
I agree they will run a lot.

Determining market price for each is the difficult part.

A 3 headed monster isn't very fantasy friendly.

It puts a RB2 ceiling on all 3.
Click to expand...
But somehow Jeremy Hill is top 10.
Click to expand...
This is absurd. Why are we discussing Hill in a West vs Crowell thread? Hill is considered top 10 because he beat out Gio. Crowell isn't becasuse he didn't beat out West. Or Duke Johnson. It seems pretty obvious.

 
Sabertooth said:
Let me start by saying, I own Crow. And Hill. So I have done my homework. Crow had one eye opeing season at Georgia. Love his ability. But in the NFL, it has not translated the way Hill's has. That is a fact. At least not yet. -george013

Yeah, let's let the numbers do the talking on that one. Unfortunately Crowell didn't get to play against Cleveland twice last season, and won't this season. Likewise Crowell got to go up against Geno and the boys twice. So let's throw those out and look at apples to apples Common opponents last year.

Jeremy Hill scored about 12.41 PPG against common opponents. Crowell went for about 8.69 PPG.

Hill had around 50% more points in those games. Which is great. But that still doesn't prove to me that he was better. His usage stats were way higher than Crowell's. On a per touch basis against common opponents, Crowell was more effecient (i.e. better for the lay person).

Points per touch against common opponents was

Hill .81 PPT

Crowell .89 PPT

Hill got used a lot more. And if he gets 57% more usage than Crowell this year, then yeah I agree he will be a much better fantasy option. But that's not a given is it? Hill's usage is capped just like Crowell's is. I think West is firmly entrenched in the backup role this season behind 1a Crowell and 1b Johnson. I think his usage (barring injury of course) is going to be pretty much the same as Cedric Peerman or whoever is carrying the clip board in Cincy.
Click to expand...
The thing about the "per touch basis" is that Hill will most certainly get more touches in 2016 than Crowell will with Duke & West there as well, barring injury of course.

 
Ojaays said:
fredsavage said:
Browns are going to run the ball a record amount of times this year. Should be a good line. I'm buying on everyone including Duke at their market price.
Click to expand...
I agree they will run a lot.

Determining market price for each is the difficult part.

A 3 headed monster isn't very fantasy friendly.

It puts a RB2 ceiling on all 3.
Click to expand...
Is the line good enough to make up for the short comings at QB and WR? Suspect the answer is no, which puts the ceiling much lower on all 3, if the touches are spread out.

 
maf005 said:
Riversco said:
Bob Magaw said:
Schaub wasn't a running QB like RG3 (or Manziel), so what happened in HOU probably wasn't a good indicator of what to expect from an offense that had RG3 as a focal point, or what one centered around Manziel might look like. HOU had Andre Johnson, and Schaub was a vet. By not taking a WR in the draft knowing Gordon might not be available at all in 2014, drafting a strong run blocking street fighter OL in Bitonio, and maybe looking to protect a rookie QB by limiting passing mistakes and emphasizing the run game, there could be a lot of opportunity for RBs in CLE, whoever emerges.

Whatever the WAS pass/run split was in 2013 relative to 2012, Morris was very productive in both instances.
Click to expand...
The bottom line is that I need to hear Pettine say they will be run first to counter Kyle Shanahan's track record. If you feel differently, fine. I will say West is a nonfactor.
Click to expand...
As will Crowell. Ben Tate was one of the top FA rbs this year and is only 25. Neither Crowell nor West are anything more than an injury handcuff for the next 2 years minimum
Click to expand...
oof

 
32 Counter Pass said:
Ojaays said:
fredsavage said:
Browns are going to run the ball a record amount of times this year. Should be a good line. I'm buying on everyone including Duke at their market price.
Click to expand...
I agree they will run a lot.Determining market price for each is the difficult part.

A 3 headed monster isn't very fantasy friendly.

It puts a RB2 ceiling on all 3.
Click to expand...
Is the line good enough to make up for the short comings at QB and WR? Suspect the answer is no, which puts the ceiling much lower on all 3, if the touches are spread out.
Click to expand...
I disagree.They might suck at QB, but that O line, with a healthy Mack and now adding Erving to Thomas and Bitonio is about as good as it gets for running the ball.

I just have no confidence in any one of the 3 getting enough touches consistently to be any more than a RB2

 
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Week 1 - Crowell

Week 2 - West

Week 3 - Johnson

Week 4 - Crowell

Week 5 - West

Week 6 - Johnson

Wash. Rinse. Repeat.

 
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Crowell is the first of the 3 to be drafted.

The article posted was spot on.

The ADP of all 3 is late, late enough that you could grab all 3 and see who falls out.

My strategy :

Draft Crow, after I've drafted 2 starters.

If either of the other 2 is still available later, I'll grab one.

The thing not to overlook here is, the Cleveland O line is Elite in the run game,

Cleveland will run the ball, then run the ball, and then run again,

one of these guys and maybe two, will be plenty relevant to have on your roster.

 
Cleavland bombs all year drafts a half decent QB next year... hopefully and then with that line and a half decent then we have a breakout conversation on any of these guys

but i belive the current order is going to come down to RB-1 Crow, Duke on passing, west giving breathers adventully falling to the wayside, as both crow is better between the tackle and duke is better catching the ball where west dosent out perform either in their area.

 
I have never witnessed a player leading a team in rushing his rookie year and then almost forgotten about the following year. I swear there's thousands of people that forget West is even there

 
Freelove said:
Sabertooth said:
Bri said:
I have never witnessed a player leading a team in rushing his rookie year and then almost forgotten about the following year. I swear there's thousands of people that forget West is even there
Click to expand...
Tre Mason is another one.
Click to expand...
Tre Mason proved to be, by a pretty significant margin, the best RB on the roster by year's end.

West proved pretty much the opposite.
Click to expand...
How do you figure, re-West?

He closed his season with 18 for 94 (5.2) and a TD.

 
Bri said:
I have never witnessed a player leading a team in rushing his rookie year and then almost forgotten about the following year. I swear there's thousands of people that forget West is even there
Click to expand...
Okay but he led Crowell by a whopping 66 yards and scored 4 fewer TDs. He deserves more discussion for sure but I am not surprised people are far more interested in Crowell.

 
Chaka said:
Bri said:
I have never witnessed a player leading a team in rushing his rookie year and then almost forgotten about the following year. I swear there's thousands of people that forget West is even there
Click to expand...
Okay but he led Crowell by a whopping 66 yards and scored 4 fewer TDs. He deserves more discussion for sure but I am not surprised people are far more interested in Crowell.
Click to expand...
yeah definitely close and a good shared backfield, didn't mean to insinuate he was the workhorse back

 
Bri said:
Chaka said:
Bri said:
I have never witnessed a player leading a team in rushing his rookie year and then almost forgotten about the following year. I swear there's thousands of people that forget West is even there
Click to expand...
Okay but he led Crowell by a whopping 66 yards and scored 4 fewer TDs. He deserves more discussion for sure but I am not surprised people are far more interested in Crowell.
Click to expand...
yeah definitely close and a good shared backfield, didn't mean to insinuate he was the workhorse back
Click to expand...
I understand West led the team in carries and yards (even by a small margin) but practically no one talks about him holding onto that split in carries. It doesn't make sense that he is being treated as an afterthought.

 
Chaka said:
Bri said:
Chaka said:
Bri said:
I have never witnessed a player leading a team in rushing his rookie year and then almost forgotten about the following year. I swear there's thousands of people that forget West is even there
Click to expand...
Okay but he led Crowell by a whopping 66 yards and scored 4 fewer TDs. He deserves more discussion for sure but I am not surprised people are far more interested in Crowell.
Click to expand...
yeah definitely close and a good shared backfield, didn't mean to insinuate he was the workhorse back
Click to expand...
I understand West led the team in carries and yards (even by a small margin) but practically no one talks about him holding onto that split in carries. It doesn't make sense that he is being treated as an afterthought.
Click to expand...
Not only did West lead the team, but he had a much stronger close to the season. Yet everyone assumes Crowell will start. I don't really understand it. I wouldn't put any of them as a heavy favorite, and the rotation makes none of them a priority for me. Having said that, I'd rather pay nearly nothing for West than anything substantial for either of the other two.

 
The only one that really costs anything worthwhile is Crowell. I'll just gladly pick the other guys at virtually no cost.

 
Don't understand the lack of respect for West either. What is he all of a sudden chopped liver? In my recent PPR redraft, Crowell owner handcuffed with the rookie and West sits on the waiver wire. Still not sure I want anything at all to do with the Cleveland RB game. But I'm at least intruiged. West shouldn't be on anyone's waiver wire.

 
Say it aint so coach!

"Browns RB Isaiah Crowell is already having "exchange problems" early in camp.

Crowell apparently fumbled two handoffs from Josh McCown, and later dropped a short pass. It's just a reminder of Crowell's ball-security issues, which earned him an October benching and more limited role down the stretch last season. Crowell is atop the Browns' running-back depth chart, but can't put the ball on the ground in the preseason."

-Rotoworld
 
Warpig said:
Say it aint so coach!

"Browns RB Isaiah Crowell is already having "exchange problems" early in camp.

Crowell apparently fumbled two handoffs from Josh McCown, and later dropped a short pass. It's just a reminder of Crowell's ball-security issues, which earned him an October benching and more limited role down the stretch last season. Crowell is atop the Browns' running-back depth chart, but can't put the ball on the ground in the preseason."

-Rotoworld
Click to expand...
McCown is the one who sucks. Was probably his fault.

 
The reason West has fallen by the wayside is because of what I like to call eyeballs. West looks like a decent talent, nothing special. Crowell has the ability to be a beast behind that OL.

That's why Crowell is the most expensive. Pretty simple.

 
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I dealt with this circus last year. I hope I don't fall prey to it again.

Usually if a guy looks good on Sunday, he will most likely be given another chance the next week to build on it. Not in Cleveland. It is all dependent on who practices better...so unless you have access to the Browns practices, or feel like spending all Sunday morning trying to figure out who is starting this week.......do not touch.

 
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