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The Alt-Right Movement: a pole (1 Viewer)

What percentage of white folks do you believe at least somewhat support the Alt-Right movement, whet

  • >90%

    Votes: 10 4.1%

  • >75%

    Votes: 18 7.4%

  • >50%

    Votes: 47 19.3%

  • >25%

    Votes: 85 35.0%

  • <25%

    Votes: 83 34.2%
  • Total voters
    243
Smoo said:
Yeah, I prefer to dismiss the radicals nutbars and try to find the actual voices in a movement like this. When I think of "alt-right", I think of Milo Yiannopolous, Ben Shapiro, and Steven Crowder, not the armies of douchebags who worship them and give them a bad name.
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you've just ruined Maria Menounos for me by association

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/prowrestling/images/c/c0/Maria_Menounos_1.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20131106155209

http://fullhdpictures.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Maria-Menounos-Photos-HD.jpg

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.28357.1336428083!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/gallery_1200/maria-menounos.jpg

maybe not, though

 
sublimeone said:
Are those people alt-right? I mean, I guess... from my understanding of the 'alt-right' -- basically a fringe of the right... they guys are a fringe of that fringe.

Are they neo nazis? yes

Are they white supremacists? yes

Is there a difference between "white nationalist" and "white supremacist? I don't know.

I think the real question to ask is: Do we really believe a couple hundred degenerates meeting at the Holiday Inn conference room are something to concern ourselves with? Or are these people simply useful idiots for the left to try and smear the right?

I think we all know the answer. It isn't the right trumpeting these people. It's the left, trying to create the illusion that this is mainstream and the reason Trump won. It's utter nonsense.
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They may not be the mainstream, but they're also not as fringe as you think.

 
Smoo said:
Yeah, that's why I clarified that when I say "alt-right", I have Milo, Ben and Steve in mind, not these clowns. Ans it's what I was talking about when I said the movement had been hijacked. Maybe I have it backwards, maybe this has always been the movement and I just managed to find some of the more rational faces of it to listen to.

Either, way, those people are clearly nuts but that doesn't mean there aren't people out there with legitimate critical things to say about feminism, BLM, political correctness, Islamophobia, and free speech that are worth listening to, even if you wind up disagreeing. And that's why my answer is still "I support some aspects of the movement".
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I hate to quibble, I really do.  But if Hitler had a world class animal rights program (let's pretend it's an issue I cared deeply about), I'd probably steer clear of saying "you know, there are some things about Hitler's regime that were actually good ideas."

Regardless, Milo appears by all accounts to be a genuine nutbag.  Unless he's just trolling, in which case I defer to Vonnegut, who said something along the lines of "We are what we pretend to be."  Or something. 

Finally, I don't advocate the government stifling Milo, Ben, and Steve's speech.  Not one bit.  But they are clearly, objectively, ^ssholes. Apropos of nothing, I guess. Is that who you want carrying your banner? 

 
sublimeone said:
Are those people alt-right? I mean, I guess... from my understanding of the 'alt-right' -- basically a fringe of the right... they guys are a fringe of that fringe.

Are they neo nazis? yes

Are they white supremacists? yes

Is there a difference between "white nationalist" and "white supremacist? I don't know.

I think the real question to ask is: Do we really believe a couple hundred degenerates meeting at the Holiday Inn conference room are something to concern ourselves with? Or are these people simply useful idiots for the left to try and smear the right?

I think we all know the answer. It isn't the right trumpeting these people. It's the left, trying to create the illusion that this is mainstream and the reason Trump won. It's utter nonsense.
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Appreciate the responses.  And I appreciate the question you ask at the end.  I don't know the answer.  

And to be honest, I'm MUCH more concerned about the guy from Kansas that Trump is considering giving a key cabinet position to.  I think that any type of targeting of Muslims or immigrants (even illegal immigrants) is a really scary idea. 

I'm actually pretty disconcerted that Trump hasn't said anything to denounce this group here.  Didn't we go through something pretty similar early in Obama's administration about reverend Wright?  I can't remember how Obama handled it. 

 
I'd like to see Trump do/say something similar: 

Reverend Wright situation:

The Jeremiah Wright controversy gained national attention in the United States, in March 2008 when ABC News, after reviewing dozens of U.S. Presidential candidate Barack Obama's pastor Jeremiah Wright's sermons,[1] excerpted parts which were subject to intense media scrutiny.[2][3] Wright is a retired senior pastor of Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago and former pastor of President Obama.[4] Obama denounced the statements in question, but critics continued to press the issue of his relationship with Wright. In response to this, he gave a speech titled "A More Perfect Union", in which he sought to place Wright's comments in a historical and sociological context. In the speech, Obama again denounced Wright's remarks, but did not disown him as a person. The controversy began to fade, but was renewed in late April when Wright made a series of media appearances, including an interview on Bill Moyers Journal, a speech at the NAACP, and a speech at the National Press Club.[5] After the last of these, Obama spoke more forcefully against his former pastor, saying that he was "outraged" and "saddened" by his behavior, and in May he resigned his membership in the church.[6]

Obama's statement:

I am outraged by the comments that were made and saddened by the spectacle that we saw yesterday... The person that I saw yesterday was not the person that I met 20 years ago. His comments were not only divisive and destructive, but I believe that they end up giving comfort to those who prey on hate, and I believe that they do not portray accurately the perspective of the black church. They certainly don't portray accurately my values and beliefs. And if Reverend Wright thinks that that's political posturing, as he put it, then he doesn't know me very well. And based on his remarks yesterday, well, I may not know him as well as I thought either.... What became clear to me is that he was presenting a world view that contradicts who I am and what I stand for, and what I think particularly angered me was his suggestion somehow that my previous denunciation of his remarks were somehow political posturing. Anybody who knows me and anybody who knows what I'm about knows that I am about trying to bridge gaps and I see the commonality in all people. ...[A]fter seeing Reverend Wright's performance, I felt as if there was a complete disregard for what the American people are going through and the need for them to rally together to solve these problems. ...[W]hatever relationship I had with Reverend Wright has changed, as a consequence of this.

 
Sweet J said:
I hate to quibble, I really do.  But if Hitler had a world class animal rights program (let's pretend it's an issue I cared deeply about), I'd probably steer clear of saying "you know, there are some things about Hitler's regime that were actually good ideas."

Regardless, Milo appears by all accounts to be a genuine nutbag.  Unless he's just trolling, in which case I defer to Vonnegut, who said something along the lines of "We are what we pretend to be."  Or something. 

Finally, I don't advocate the government stifling Milo, Ben, and Steve's speech.  Not one bit.  But they are clearly, objectively, ^ssholes. Apropos of nothing, I guess. Is that who you want carrying your banner? 
Click to expand...
Quibble away, as long as I can as well.

First, while this is certainly hard to accept given historical hindsight, of course there had to have been things about Hitler's regime that were actually good ideas. And this is just probability analysis. The odds that somebody led a country for that long without making a single decision that could, even in hindsight, be considered useful... they have to be vanishingly small.

Milo happily labels himself a troll. He thinks it's funny, I think it's obnoxious. But get him in an actual exchange of ideas rather than one of his theatrical tirades and he's quite engaging.

Oh, they don't carry my banner. Sam Harris carries my banner. But I'll happily listen to somebody who's willing to honestly engage with the ideas. Even if I disagree with them, I can still take something away from thei reasoning and use it to hone my own views. I watched an interview with Larry Elder once that would have made the old me want to hurl my monitor off of a balcony, but I found it useful to listen to him and understand why I dismissed his ideas rather than simply dismiss his ideas out of hand.

 
Sweet J said:
Appreciate the responses.  And I appreciate the question you ask at the end.  I don't know the answer.  

And to be honest, I'm MUCH more concerned about the guy from Kansas that Trump is considering giving a key cabinet position to.  I think that any type of targeting of Muslims or immigrants (even illegal immigrants) is a really scary idea. 

I'm actually pretty disconcerted that Trump hasn't said anything to denounce this group here.  Didn't we go through something pretty similar early in Obama's administration about reverend Wright?  I can't remember how Obama handled it. 
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http://www.breitbart.com/2016-presidential-race/2016/11/22/donald-trump-disavow-alt-right-groups/

 
sublimeone said:
Are those people alt-right? I mean, I guess... from my understanding of the 'alt-right' -- basically a fringe of the right... they guys are a fringe of that fringe.

Are they neo nazis? yes

Are they white supremacists? yes

Is there a difference between "white nationalist" and "white supremacist? I don't know.

I think the real question to ask is: Do we really believe a couple hundred degenerates meeting at the Holiday Inn conference room are something to concern ourselves with? Or are these people simply useful idiots for the left to try and smear the right?

I think we all know the answer. It isn't the right trumpeting these people. It's the left, trying to create the illusion that this is mainstream and the reason Trump won. It's utter nonsense.
Click to expand...
OK, first, you are creating a straw man, with the stuff about the alt-right bring mainstream, and the reason Trump won.

That simply is not happening.

You are correct, the right isn't trumpeting these people, because they are embarrassing.  The liberal media is showing this speech enthusiastically, no doubt. 

So what? That is some scary sheet right there, and if Fox News isn't going to show it, someone else should. 

As to them being the fringe of the fringe, the dirtbag from Breitbart just assumed control of the White House, so yeah, I'm gonna not just dismiss them as a few hundred nuts in a Holiday Inn.  

The big thing to me is, if we just dismiss them as fringe, we are really normalizing everything they do. This is how guys like Rush Limbaugh become establishment voices.  

 
We'll never know the answer to this, but I'd love to know how many of the people who voted for Trump did it "just to see what would happen". I suspect it's a depressingly large number.

 
Smoo said:
We'll never know the answer to this, but I'd love to know how many of the people who voted for Trump did it "just to see what would happen". I suspect it's a depressingly large number.
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I actually believe the majority of people who voted for him 1) really despise Hillary Clinton, and were convinced she was dirty; 2) they genuinely believed Trump when he said stuff like "I'm going to bring back all the coal mining jobs in West Virginia and Pennsylvania," and "we are bringing manufacturing back to Ohio and Michigan and we are going to slap tariffs on cars imported from Mexico," and "we are going to stop illegal immigration into the United States," etc. etc. 

 
Sweet J said:
kudos to Trump for saying this.  Genuine, non-snarky, kudos.  I hope he keeps it up.  I'm convinced the majority of people who voted him into office do not consider themselves racists or white nationalists, so I think he has nothing to lose by hitting hard against racists and white nationalists.  
Click to expand...
No ####. Good grief, stop buying the BS. 

Here's a video of Trump throwing a KKK member out of a rally and the crowd going nuts: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj7oALqyykg

 
Sweet J said:
I actually believe the majority of people who voted for him 1) really despise Hillary Clinton, and were convinced she was dirty; 2) they genuinely believed Trump when he said stuff like "I'm going to bring back all the coal mining jobs in West Virginia and Pennsylvania," and "we are bringing manufacturing back to Ohio and Michigan and we are going to slap tariffs on cars imported from Mexico," and "we are going to stop illegal immigration into the United States," etc. etc. 
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I absolutely believe #2 and think that was a huge part of it. But I really have trouble buying #1. Somebody legitimately and fairly concerned with "dirtiness" or "crookedness" could not in good conscience have voted for either of them.

 
massraider said:
As to them being the fringe of the fringe, the dirtbag from Breitbart just assumed control of the White House, so yeah, I'm gonna not just dismiss them as a few hundred nuts in a Holiday Inn.  
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Where is the evidence that Steve Bannon is a 'dirtbag?' -- it's being repeated over and over and over and over... 'he's a racist, he's a anti-semite...' but I have yet to see anything other than a few references to a headlines on the Breitbart website. Meanwhile an actual anti-semite is about to become the head of the DNC. 

It's all so preposterous.

 
Too bad we can't see who voted for what, I would like to see the 5 alias that wanted to prove the Alt right is a real thing. 

 
sublimeone said:
Where is the evidence that Steve Bannon is a 'dirtbag?' -- it's being repeated over and over and over and over... 'he's a racist, he's a anti-semite...' but I have yet to see anything other than a few references to a headlines on the Breitbart website. Meanwhile an actual anti-semite is about to become the head of the DNC. 

It's all so preposterous.
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Is this a shtick where you claim ignorance of something, then when people show you the evidence, you latch onto something minor in the response, and claim ignorance of that thing?

If so, well done. I salute you, sir.

 
Smoo said:
I absolutely believe #2 and think that was a huge part of it. But I really have trouble buying #1. Somebody legitimately and fairly concerned with "dirtiness" or "crookedness" could not in good conscience have voted for either of them.
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People who are legitimately concerned with crookedness would rarely have the opportunity to vote at all.

 
massraider said:
Well, they might not be according to Hoyle Nazis, so that seems like a nice slippery response.  
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Sorry, you need more that a couple hundred whacks to have a movement. There are groups of Bronies larger than this "movement" that endorsed Clinton. I hardly think that means Bill dresses as a cartoon pony and prances around. 

 
Sweet J said:
Jesus, you mean a bunch of whiny millennials who are being catered to by some university officials (while being NOT-catered to by others)?  THAT'S you're example of an "anti-free speech movement"?  Cry me an effing river.

The alt right "movement" is a sea of sludge and hate disguising itself and pretending to be an advocate in the same way that the "men's movement" does, attacking and going after people who is perceived to be against them.  No thanks.

I will fight to the bitter end any government attempt to limit free speech, even free speech that I despise.  But show me some real attempt to limit, and show me some reasonable response to it, rather than racist garbage. 
Click to expand...
Yes.  That would be an example. I have no idea what alt-right has to do with it though.

 
Sweet J said:
kudos to Trump for saying this.  Genuine, non-snarky, kudos.  I hope he keeps it up.  I'm convinced the majority of people who voted him into office do not consider themselves racists or white nationalists, so I think he has nothing to lose by hitting hard against racists and white nationalists.  
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I agree with this, but I also think he catered to them during the election cycle.

 
Smoo said:
We'll never know the answer to this, but I'd love to know how many of the people who voted for Trump did it "just to see what would happen". I suspect it's a depressingly large number.
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There are lot of people who just hate liberals of all races.  

 
sublimeone said:
No ####. Good grief, stop buying the BS. 
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my mother in law would consider herself "not racist" but she'd be the first person to complain that someone with brown skin was browsing homes for sale in her neighborhood :shrug:

sort of like this HONY post:

"“This racial stuff to me is BS and I’m tired of hearing it. I have it made because I’m a white male? I’m prejudiced? That #### is long ago. Way long ago. Enough of it. It’s all the media. It’s all for ratings. It’s this false racial #### that they keep pumping into everybody’s head. They’re keeping everyone on edge. If there’s a police shooting—it’s white versus black. Always white versus black. Who cares about the facts? Race is more important. Watching the news, you’d think there was a race war out there. But then I walk outside and I just don’t see it. I hold the door for the black guy. He holds the door for me. I wouldn’t even know there was a problem if it wasn’t for the television. They need to quit making #### out of nothing.”

he's right, there's no racism, discrimination or prejudice in this country. we won that war in the 60s. of course, when you're a 50 something white guy there's no such thing as racism. it's not directed at you. i don't have to worry about getting punched in the head because i kissed a guy, because i'm not gay, but i understand that some people live with that fear every day and it concerns me.

it's disingenuous and naive to suggest that people "get over it" when it comes to racism and prejudice. unless you're in a minority population you probably have no idea what it means to be disadvantaged for your appearance, orientation, etc. 

it's the stance of someone who has no worldly experience that doesn't look past their own nose. 

 
sublimeone said:
Where is the evidence that Steve Bannon is a 'dirtbag?' -- it's being repeated over and over and over and over... 'he's a racist, he's a anti-semite...' but I have yet to see anything other than a few references to a headlines on the Breitbart website. Meanwhile an actual anti-semite is about to become the head of the DNC. 

It's all so preposterous.
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this is how we got here, folks

 
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mr. furley said:
my mother in law would consider herself "not racist" but she'd be the first person to complain that someone with brown skin was browsing homes for sale in her neighborhood :shrug:

sort of like this HONY post:

"“This racial stuff to me is BS and I’m tired of hearing it. I have it made because I’m a white male? I’m prejudiced? That #### is long ago. Way long ago. Enough of it. It’s all the media. It’s all for ratings. It’s this false racial #### that they keep pumping into everybody’s head. They’re keeping everyone on edge. If there’s a police shooting—it’s white versus black. Always white versus black. Who cares about the facts? Race is more important. Watching the news, you’d think there was a race war out there. But then I walk outside and I just don’t see it. I hold the door for the black guy. He holds the door for me. I wouldn’t even know there was a problem if it wasn’t for the television. They need to quit making #### out of nothing.”

he's right, there's no racism, discrimination or prejudice in this country. we won that war in the 60s. of course, when you're a 50 something white guy there's no such thing as racism. it's not directed at you. i don't have to worry about getting punched in the head because i kissed a guy, because i'm not gay, but i understand that some people live with that fear every day and it concerns me.

it's disingenuous and naive to suggest that people "get over it" when it comes to racism and prejudice. unless you're in a minority population you probably have no idea what it means to be disadvantaged for your appearance, orientation, etc. 

it's the stance of someone who has no worldly experience that doesn't look past their own nose. 
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I'd feel a lot safer walking down the street hand in hand with my boyfriend than wearing a 'make America great again' hat

 
mr. furley said:
this is how we got here, folks
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Sorry I don't blindly accept the popular narrative. Maybe you could provide a quote from Bannon that would suggest racism/anti-Semitism? 

ETA: if he is a racist I want to know and would gladly join the pile on. I just find it hard to believe.

 
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He's not going to change his mind.  Don't bother :shrug:

"Anyone that uses fascist or nazi as a pejorative is our collective enemy or needs red pilling on the big picture" - some alt right freak

 
Loan Sharks said:
Too bad we can't see who voted for what, I would like to see the 5 alias that wanted to prove the Alt right is a real thing. 
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the alt right is a real thing. Media lied and labeled a guy the leader of it(so they could define the movement by this guy) and played him in such a way that would allow the media to define the alt right in a way that doesn't exist for the majority of people in it.

 
ilikedwight said:
the alt right is a real thing. Media lied and labeled a guy the leader of it(so they could define the movement by this guy) and played him in such a way that would allow the media to define the alt right in a way that doesn't exist for the majority of people in it.
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Nice.  That clear it up for everyone?.

 
i sense a theme here. "liberal media" lies. right wing news sources are telling the truth.

eta: except when right wing news sources post horrible, terrible headlines that wouldn't be fit for third world propaganda campaigns. then, it's .. you know ... just like .. not that big of a deal.

 
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