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The American Food System (2 Viewers)

Chaos Commish said:
This wasn't about the health hazards of GMOs. China is very actively pursuing GMOs (of their own). China has approved many of ours. It is a time consuming process. This was about supply. If they needed our corn they would have taken it, just like they have with that same GMO (Viptera) since 2011. It being unapproved was a handy loophole for accepting Ukrainian corn and sending ours back.

I don't know enough about the genetically engineered pest thwarting protein being added to these crops to get real excited about it (positively or negatively). If it means the crops are dosed with less pesticides, that could be a good thing. The more I look at these crops and the actual genetics, the more I think the fear is BS. The anti-gmo campaign driven primarily by the organic movement is really effective, but not necessarily really accurate. Organic crops are saturated with pesticides too. Since the organic approved poisons are much less effective, they spray more. I visited a huge organic lettuce farm on the Cali coast last month. They spray the crop with compost tea. Pretty much tea made from horsechit and rotting plant matter. I'll never eat anything from that place. You work that stuff into the soil fine, but don't spray my food with it. No wonder there's so much food poisoning from organic greens.
Article seems to suggest this particular GMO is not on China's list and so it was rejected. No mention of supply :shrug: If there's more to this story, I'd like to read it. To the bold, I agree 100%. I've said a million times here our standard for "organic" is laughable at best and a complete waste of money in the large national chain stores.

 
Chaos Commish said:
This wasn't about the health hazards of GMOs. China is very actively pursuing GMOs (of their own). China has approved many of ours. It is a time consuming process. This was about supply. If they needed our corn they would have taken it, just like they have with that same GMO (Viptera) since 2011. It being unapproved was a handy loophole for accepting Ukrainian corn and sending ours back.

I don't know enough about the genetically engineered pest thwarting protein being added to these crops to get real excited about it (positively or negatively). If it means the crops are dosed with less pesticides, that could be a good thing. The more I look at these crops and the actual genetics, the more I think the fear is BS. The anti-gmo campaign driven primarily by the organic movement is really effective, but not necessarily really accurate. Organic crops are saturated with pesticides too. Since the organic approved poisons are much less effective, they spray more. I visited a huge organic lettuce farm on the Cali coast last month. They spray the crop with compost tea. Pretty much tea made from horsechit and rotting plant matter. I'll never eat anything from that place. You work that stuff into the soil fine, but don't spray my food with it. No wonder there's so much food poisoning from organic greens.
Article seems to suggest this particular GMO is not on China's list and so it was rejected. No mention of supply :shrug: If there's more to this story, I'd like to read it. To the bold, I agree 100%. I've said a million times here our standard for "organic" is laughable at best and a complete waste of money in the large national chain stores.
I was repeating what was told to me by an Ag professor/farmer on the same trip mentioned above. The China corn rejection story isn't real fresh. We were specifically discussing Viptera and the improved Duracade (rejected/unapproved gmos from Syngenta). Because, per Maurile's comments too, both reduce the total pesticide load by reducing insecticide necessity. All these damned crops are RoundupReady nowadays, so they're getting soaked with glyphosate and/or glufosinate (herbicides). The Chinese take on millions of tons of this corn from us. The point is they've approved gmos that get heavier and more toxic pesticide dosings than the unapproved strain they used to reject our shipment. Insecticides are generally nastier to humans than herbicides. So this protein keeping bugs off crops might be an improvement. Same said professor sure thinks so.

Not sure I can find you a link, and pure speculation from my friend wondered if China wasn't doing Putin a favor with that corn purchase. Here is some reading material.

eta for clarification: Maurile stated pesticide use increased with gmos. I agree, but it has been a huge increase in herbicides... RoundUp. This makes farmer's lives very easy, btw. Weeds die, crops thrive. Insecticide doses remained stable with RoundUp Ready GMOs. The GMOs being rejected had a new traits built into the gmo stack that reduced insecticide needs. Non gmo crops require more work, but less herbicide and more insecticide than the rejected corn... in general... still not sure this is clear... or matters.

 
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Anyone following the study attempting to link Monsanto to the kidney disease problem in Central America? I've also heard rumblings of our government attempting to withhold money from those countries if they don't use Monsanto's GMO modified seeds rather than their local seeds.

 
Yeah....it's

the American People That are Stupid
He is probably right to extent, but he is dumb for saying it.
No...he's not close to right and all the letters to congressmen and senators with respect to GMOs should prove that. People don't want them until they can be assured they are safe and even then some don't want them. There's nothing stupid about that. My argument all along has been that if they put the GMO info on the labels (ingredient side) it would at least take the lid off the can and allow the conversations begin to flow. If a company sees that they are losing sales and they believe it's because of the labeling, they have an opportunity to educate people on GMOs. They also now have a motivation to research GMO affects to prove/disprove beliefs not known today. This is something that science is perfect for resolving. There's a reason these people are battling against the labeling and it's not because of the lack of American intellect.

 
Anyone following the study attempting to link Monsanto to the kidney disease problem in Central America? I've also heard rumblings of our government attempting to withhold money from those countries if they don't use Monsanto's GMO modified seeds rather than their local seeds.
No I haven't but that is horrible.

 
Anyone following the study attempting to link Monsanto to the kidney disease problem in Central America? I've also heard rumblings of our government attempting to withhold money from those countries if they don't use Monsanto's GMO modified seeds rather than their local seeds.
Sadly not surprising in the latest bit. I haven't read through this whole thread so I apologize if it's repeat information - but with the way the FDA and Monsanto leadership interconnect, it's open season on the public food supply. Now, with the muscle of the US government behind them, Monsanto is free to roam the world and strong arm everyone into using their seeds. With all of the Federal Court rulings going in favor of Monsanto (shocker! Clarence Thomas was a former Monsanto legal counsel) this will get a whole lot worse before it gets any better.

 
Yeah....it's

the American People That are Stupid
He is probably right to extent, but he is dumb for saying it.
No...he's not close to right and all the letters to congressmen and senators with respect to GMOs should prove that. People don't want them until they can be assured they are safe and even then some don't want them. There's nothing stupid about that. My argument all along has been that if they put the GMO info on the labels (ingredient side) it would at least take the lid off the can and allow the conversations begin to flow. If a company sees that they are losing sales and they believe it's because of the labeling, they have an opportunity to educate people on GMOs. They also now have a motivation to research GMO affects to prove/disprove beliefs not known today. This is something that science is perfect for resolving. There's a reason these people are battling against the labeling and it's not because of the lack of American intellect.
I'm for as much truth in labeling as possible. That said, most Americans don't know or care about what is in their food. Companies can't be trusted to present the public with the whole truth anyway. Forget GMOs, we know which foods lead to increased risk of heart disease, obesity, and cancer. It doesn't stop people from consuming them regularly.

 
Yeah....it's

the American People That are Stupid
He is probably right to extent, but he is dumb for saying it.
No...he's not close to right and all the letters to congressmen and senators with respect to GMOs should prove that. People don't want them until they can be assured they are safe and even then some don't want them. There's nothing stupid about that. My argument all along has been that if they put the GMO info on the labels (ingredient side) it would at least take the lid off the can and allow the conversations begin to flow. If a company sees that they are losing sales and they believe it's because of the labeling, they have an opportunity to educate people on GMOs. They also now have a motivation to research GMO affects to prove/disprove beliefs not known today. This is something that science is perfect for resolving. There's a reason these people are battling against the labeling and it's not because of the lack of American intellect.
I'm for as much truth in labeling as possible. That said, most Americans don't know or care about what is in their food. Companies can't be trusted to present the public with the whole truth anyway. Forget GMOs, we know which foods lead to increased risk of heart disease, obesity, and cancer. It doesn't stop people from consuming them regularly.
I don't think much of the general public (i.e. the mouth breathers) truly has a grasp of this and a lot of it has to do with food labeling.

I agree that putting "GMO" on food labels could hurt those product as much out of ignorance as anything, people will interpret as GMO = Bad, which isn't necessarily the case, just like the whole trans-fats thing but I really don't give two ####s about that. Label the food properly and let God sort the rest out.

 
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Ilov80s said:
Yeah....it's

the American People That are Stupid
He is probably right to extent, but he is dumb for saying it.
No...he's not close to right and all the letters to congressmen and senators with respect to GMOs should prove that. People don't want them until they can be assured they are safe and even then some don't want them. There's nothing stupid about that. My argument all along has been that if they put the GMO info on the labels (ingredient side) it would at least take the lid off the can and allow the conversations begin to flow. If a company sees that they are losing sales and they believe it's because of the labeling, they have an opportunity to educate people on GMOs. They also now have a motivation to research GMO affects to prove/disprove beliefs not known today. This is something that science is perfect for resolving. There's a reason these people are battling against the labeling and it's not because of the lack of American intellect.
I'm for as much truth in labeling as possible. That said, most Americans don't know or care about what is in their food. Companies can't be trusted to present the public with the whole truth anyway. Forget GMOs, we know which foods lead to increased risk of heart disease, obesity, and cancer. It doesn't stop people from consuming them regularly.
It's true that people don't know what they don't know. That's why I believe informing folks is our best chance. Many ways to do that and labels aren't the primary way to educate. They are a pretty good way to get the discussion/information flowing though.

 
Ilov80s said:
Yeah....it's

the American People That are Stupid
He is probably right to extent, but he is dumb for saying it.
No...he's not close to right and all the letters to congressmen and senators with respect to GMOs should prove that. People don't want them until they can be assured they are safe and even then some don't want them. There's nothing stupid about that. My argument all along has been that if they put the GMO info on the labels (ingredient side) it would at least take the lid off the can and allow the conversations begin to flow. If a company sees that they are losing sales and they believe it's because of the labeling, they have an opportunity to educate people on GMOs. They also now have a motivation to research GMO affects to prove/disprove beliefs not known today. This is something that science is perfect for resolving. There's a reason these people are battling against the labeling and it's not because of the lack of American intellect.
I'm for as much truth in labeling as possible. That said, most Americans don't know or care about what is in their food. Companies can't be trusted to present the public with the whole truth anyway. Forget GMOs, we know which foods lead to increased risk of heart disease, obesity, and cancer. It doesn't stop people from consuming them regularly.
It's true that people don't know what they don't know. That's why I believe informing folks is our best chance. Many ways to do that and labels aren't the primary way to educate. They are a pretty good way to get the discussion/information flowing though.
What is the best way to educate? In my HS's health class, healthy eating is a big topic. The teacher is a (over the top) die-hard anti every additive possible. He picks apart every food and it really surprises the kids that they are eating all these strange chemicals. However, most of them say, "Who cares. I eat what I like and don't want my teacher or Mrs. Obama telling me what to eat." The kids are sooooo pissed about the new "healthy" school requirements. I think the healthy school food move is totally backfiring. It has created a ton of animosity towards the Obamas (I work at a school that is 40%+ African American, they are the most angry) and backlash against healthy food. The healthy food is disgusting (and doesn't look or taste very healthy to me). The cafeteria is ran by Sisco and it's likely the bargain basement food. I would assume skip lunch before I ate 90% of that food. If anything, kids will walk away from the experience thinking healthy food = gross food.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Ilov80s said:
Yeah....it's

the American People That are Stupid
He is probably right to extent, but he is dumb for saying it.
No...he's not close to right and all the letters to congressmen and senators with respect to GMOs should prove that. People don't want them until they can be assured they are safe and even then some don't want them. There's nothing stupid about that. My argument all along has been that if they put the GMO info on the labels (ingredient side) it would at least take the lid off the can and allow the conversations begin to flow. If a company sees that they are losing sales and they believe it's because of the labeling, they have an opportunity to educate people on GMOs. They also now have a motivation to research GMO affects to prove/disprove beliefs not known today. This is something that science is perfect for resolving. There's a reason these people are battling against the labeling and it's not because of the lack of American intellect.
I'm for as much truth in labeling as possible. That said, most Americans don't know or care about what is in their food. Companies can't be trusted to present the public with the whole truth anyway. Forget GMOs, we know which foods lead to increased risk of heart disease, obesity, and cancer. It doesn't stop people from consuming them regularly.
It's true that people don't know what they don't know. That's why I believe informing folks is our best chance. Many ways to do that and labels aren't the primary way to educate. They are a pretty good way to get the discussion/information flowing though.
What is the best way to educate? In my HS's health class, healthy eating is a big topic. The teacher is a (over the top) die-hard anti every additive possible. He picks apart every food and it really surprises the kids that they are eating all these strange chemicals. However, most of them say, "Who cares. I eat what I like and don't want my teacher or Mrs. Obama telling me what to eat." The kids are sooooo pissed about the new "healthy" school requirements. I think the healthy school food move is totally backfiring. It has created a ton of animosity towards the Obamas (I work at a school that is 40%+ African American, they are the most angry) and backlash against healthy food. The healthy food is disgusting (and doesn't look or taste very healthy to me). The cafeteria is ran by Sisco and it's likely the bargain basement food. I would assume skip lunch before I ate 90% of that food. If anything, kids will walk away from the experience thinking healthy food = gross food.
Not sure there is a "best" way to educate. This is one of those topics where knowledge is power. I can't help but chuckle at Sisco being the one running the program. Somehow, I don't think they're giving their all in that arena. I have a feeling had they just "changed" the food without telling them it's "healthy" the uproar wouldn't be as great. Kids and teenagers can be a fickle bunch.

 
Ilov80s said:
Yeah....it's

the American People That are Stupid
He is probably right to extent, but he is dumb for saying it.
No...he's not close to right and all the letters to congressmen and senators with respect to GMOs should prove that. People don't want them until they can be assured they are safe and even then some don't want them. There's nothing stupid about that. My argument all along has been that if they put the GMO info on the labels (ingredient side) it would at least take the lid off the can and allow the conversations begin to flow. If a company sees that they are losing sales and they believe it's because of the labeling, they have an opportunity to educate people on GMOs. They also now have a motivation to research GMO affects to prove/disprove beliefs not known today. This is something that science is perfect for resolving. There's a reason these people are battling against the labeling and it's not because of the lack of American intellect.
I'm for as much truth in labeling as possible. That said, most Americans don't know or care about what is in their food. Companies can't be trusted to present the public with the whole truth anyway. Forget GMOs, we know which foods lead to increased risk of heart disease, obesity, and cancer. It doesn't stop people from consuming them regularly.
It's true that people don't know what they don't know. That's why I believe informing folks is our best chance. Many ways to do that and labels aren't the primary way to educate. They are a pretty good way to get the discussion/information flowing though.
What is the best way to educate? In my HS's health class, healthy eating is a big topic. The teacher is a (over the top) die-hard anti every additive possible. He picks apart every food and it really surprises the kids that they are eating all these strange chemicals. However, most of them say, "Who cares. I eat what I like and don't want my teacher or Mrs. Obama telling me what to eat." The kids are sooooo pissed about the new "healthy" school requirements. I think the healthy school food move is totally backfiring. It has created a ton of animosity towards the Obamas (I work at a school that is 40%+ African American, they are the most angry) and backlash against healthy food. The healthy food is disgusting (and doesn't look or taste very healthy to me). The cafeteria is ran by Sisco and it's likely the bargain basement food. I would assume skip lunch before I ate 90% of that food. If anything, kids will walk away from the experience thinking healthy food = gross food.
Not sure there is a "best" way to educate. This is one of those topics where knowledge is power. I can't help but chuckle at Sisco being the one running the program. Somehow, I don't think they're giving their all in that arena. I have a feeling had they just "changed" the food without telling them it's "healthy" the uproar wouldn't be as great. Kids and teenagers can be a fickle bunch.
They would know, they aren't stupid. Cookies gone. Arizona Ice T, gone. Nachos and fries and pizza rolls and mozzarella sticks and the like are gone. I'm not sure how the deal with Sisco works, but the good is awful. The non healthy stuff at least tasted good.

 
They would know, they aren't stupid. Cookies gone. Arizona Ice T, gone. Nachos and fries and pizza rolls and mozzarella sticks and the like are gone. I'm not sure how the deal with Sisco works, but the good is awful. The non healthy stuff at least tasted good.
My heart goes out to the children.

 
This op-ed seems like it should go here. I think change may be slowly arriving.

How a national food policy could save millions of American lives

By Mark Bittman, Michael Pollan, Ricardo Salvador and Olivier De Schutter November 7

Mark Bittman, an opinion columnist and food writer for the New York Times, is the author of “How to Cook Everything Fast.” Michael Pollan, who teaches journalism at the University of California at Berkeley, is the author of “The Omnivore’s Dilemma.” Ricardo Salvador is a senior scientist and director of the food and environment program at the Union of Concerned Scientists. Olivier De Schutter, a professor of international human rights law at the Catholic University of Louvain, was the U.N. special rapporteur on the right to food from 2008 to 2014.
How we produce and consume food has a bigger impact on Americans’ well-being than any other human activity. The food industry is the largest sector of our economy; food touches everything from our health to the environment, climate change, economic inequality and the federal budget. Yet we have no food policy — no plan or agreed-upon principles — for managing American agriculture or the food system as a whole.

That must change.

The food system and the diet it’s created have caused incalculable damage to the health of our people and our land, water and air. If a foreign power were to do such harm, we’d regard it as a threat to national security, if not an act of war, and the government would formulate a comprehensive plan and marshal resources to combat it. (The administration even named an Ebola czar to respond to a disease that threatens few Americans.) So when hundreds of thousands of annual deaths are preventable — as the deaths from the chronic diseases linked to the modern American way of eating surely are — preventing those needless deaths is a national priority.


A national food policy would do that, by investing resources to guarantee that:


● All Americans have access to healthful food;

● Farm policies are designed to support our public health and environmental objectives;

● Our food supply is free of toxic bacteria, chemicals and drugs;

● Production and marketing of our food are done transparently;

● The food industry pays a fair wage to those it employs;

● Food marketing sets children up for healthful lives by instilling in them a habit of eating real food;

● Animals are treated with compassion and attention to their well-being;


● The food system’s carbon footprint is reduced, and the amount of carbon sequestered on farmland is increased;

● The food system is sufficiently resilient to withstand the effects of climate change.

Only those with a vested interest in the status quo would argue against creating public policies with these goals. Now weigh them against the reality that our current policies and public investments have given us:

Because of unhealthy diets, 100 years of progress in improving public health and extending lifespan has been reversed. Today’s children are expected to live shorter lives than their parents. In large part, this is because a third of these children will develop Type 2 diabetes, formerly rare in children and a preventable disease that reduces life expectancy by several years. At the same time, our fossil-fuel-dependent food and agriculture system is responsible for more greenhouse gas emissions than any other sector of the economy but energy. And the exploitative labor practices of the farming and fast-food industries are responsible for much of the rise inincome inequality in America.


We find ourselves in this situation because government policy in these areas is made piecemeal. Diet-related chronic disease, food safety, marketing to children, labor conditions, wages for farm and food-chain workers, immigration, water and air quality, greenhouse gas emissions, and support for farmers: These issues are all connected to the food system. Yet they are overseen by eight federal agencies. Amid this incoherence, special interests thrive and the public good suffers.

In the early days of the Obama administration, there were encouraging signs that the new president recognized the problems of our food system and wanted to do something about them. He spoke about the importance of safety, transparency and competition in the food industry.

Since then, the first lady has made childhood obesity her signature issue, elevating food on the national agenda. But as Michelle Obama raises awareness of healthy eating and tries to reform school lunch, she is struggling to undo the damage caused by outmoded agricultural policies that her husband has left largely undisturbed. The result is the spectacle of Michelle Obama warning Americans to avoid high-fructose corn syrup at the same time the president is signing farm bills that subsidize its production.

The contradictions of our government’s policies around food become clear as soon as you compare the federal recommendations for the American diet, known as MyPlate, with the administration’s agricultural policies. While MyPlate recommends a diet of 50 percent vegetables and fruits, the administration devotes less than 1 percent of farm subsidies to support the research, production and marketing of those foods. More than 60 percent of that funding subsidizes the production of corn and other grains — food that is mostly fed to animals, converted to fuel for cars or processed into precisely the sort of junk the first lady is urging us to avoid.


How could one government be advancing two such diametrically opposed goals? By failing to recognize that an agricultural policy is not the same as a food policy — and that the former does not necessarily contribute to public health.

Our food system is largely a product of agricultural policies that made sense when the most important public health problem concerning food was the lack of it and when the United States saw “feeding the world” as its mission. These policies succeeded in boosting the productivity of American farmers, yet today they are obsolete and counterproductive, providing billions in public support to an industry that churns out a surfeit of unhealthy calories — while at the same time undermining the ability of the world’s farmers to make a living from their land.

These farm policies have nourished an agricultural-industrial complex before which the president and the first lady seem powerless. The administration’s early efforts to use antitrust laws to protect farmers and consumers from agribusiness oligopolies were quietly dropped. Promises to regulate the use of antibiotics in animal agriculture — widely acknowledged as a threat to public health — resulted in toothless voluntary guidelines from the Food and Drug Administration.

When it came to regulating methane, one of the most potent greenhouse gases, the Environmental Protection Agency proposed stringent rules for the energy industry — and another voluntary program for agriculture, the single biggest emitter of the gas. And in February the president signed yet another business-as-usual farm bill, which continues to encourage the dumping of cheap but unhealthy calories in the supermarket.


These policies and the diet they sponsor threaten to undermine President Obama’s Affordable Care Act. The government now finds itself in the absurd position of financing both sides in the war on Type 2 diabetes, a disease that, along with its associated effects, now costs $245 billion, or 23 percent of the national deficit in 2012, to treat each year. The government subsidizes soda with one hand, while the other writes checks to pay for insulin pumps. This is not policy; this is insanity.

The good news is that solutions are within reach — precisely because the problems are largely a result of government policies. We know that the government has the power to reshape the food system because it has already done so at least once — when President Richard Nixon rejiggered farm policy to boost production of corn and soy to drive down food prices.

Of course, reforming the food system will ultimately depend on a Congress that has for decades been beholden to agribusiness, one of the most powerful lobbies on Capitol Hill. As long as food-related issues are treated as discrete rather than systemic problems, congressional committees in thrall to special interests will be able to block change.

But there is something the president can do now, on his own, to break that deadlock, much as he has done with climate change. In the next State of the Union address, he should announce an executive order establishing a national policy for food, health and well-being. By officially acknowledging the problem and by setting forth a few simple principles on which most Americans agree, the introduction of such a policy would create momentum for reform. By elevating food and farming to a matter of public concern rather than a parochial interest, the president can make it much more difficult for the interests of agribusiness to prevail over those of public and environmental health.


The national food policy could be developed and implemented by a new White House council, which would coordinate among, say, the Department of Health and Human Services and the USDA to align agricultural policies with public health objectives, and the EPA and the USDA to make sure food production doesn’t undermine environmental goals. A national food policy would lay the foundation for a food system in which healthful choices are accessible to all and in which it becomes possible to nourish ourselves without exploiting other people or nature.

As Obama begins the last two years of his administration facing an obstructionist Republican Congress, this is an area where he can act on his own — and his legacy may depend on him doing so. For the president won’t be able to achieve his goals for health care, climate change, immigration and economic inequality — the four pillars of his second term — if he doesn’t address the food system and its negative impact on those issues.

There are precedents for such a policy. Already a handful of states are developing food charters, and scores of U.S. cities have established food policy councils to expand access to healthful food. Brazil and Mexico are far ahead of the United States in developing national food policies. Mexico’s recognition of food as a key driver of public health led to the passage last year of a national tax on junk food and soda, which in the first year has reduced consumption of sugary beverages by 10 percent and increased consumption of water.

Brazil has had a national food policy since 2004. In the city of Belo Horizonte that policy — coupled with an investment of 2 percent of the local budget in food-access and farmer-support programs — has reduced poverty by 25 percent and child mortality by 60 percent, and provided access to credit for 2 million farmers, all within a decade.


A well-articulated national food policy in the United States would make it much more difficult for Congress to pass bills that fly in its face. The very act of elevating food among the issues the White House addresses would build public support for reforms. And once the government embraces a goal such as “We guarantee the right of every American to eat food that is healthy, green, fair and affordable” — it becomes far more difficult to pass or sign a farm bill that erodes those guarantees.

Think of the food system as something that works for us rather than exploits us, something that encourages health rather than undermines it. That is the food system the people of the United States deserve, and Obama, in his remaining time in office, can begin to build it.
 
Great read and depressing read all at the same time. I'm not holding my breath that Congress or the President will be making any major fuss over our food in the near future.

 
Not to mention all of the cancer causing artificial colors that are present in most of our candy. Our CANDY! All of that crap is banned in Europe.

 

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