The Battle of the Bulge--Began 70 years ago 12/16/44. (1 Viewer)

[DCThunder]

Lest we forget...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Bulge

 

[Ketamine Dreams]

My great uncle was in the Battle of the Bulge. Thank you Uncle Frank, and all who served.

 

[GregR]

Nuts.

 

[Jayrod]

I had a great-uncle in-law who was in this battle as a tank commander. I know that is a pretty distant relationship, but my wife and I spent a few evenings alone with he and his wife and we discussed the battle once. Two things he told me that I'll always remember; that they did things during that battle that would get them into trouble in today's world (I believe he was talking about war crimes type stuff) and that they stacked the frozen bodies up in piles like logs.

He was a great man and apparently had to work through a lot of psychological issues over the war. But his life is one I can only hope to match. He had success in every aspect of life and was revered by every member of his family. He died this Spring and we went to the funeral in Dallas. I seriously hope that if I live into my 90's I can have that kind of impact on the world.

RIP Uncle John

 

[gump]

My great-uncle fought there. He came back from the war in one piece physically, and ran a local business in the NE for about a decade.

One day, he decided to sell his business and his house...and move to FL. The cold days reminded him too much of being in Bastogne.

 

[eoMMan]

Never heard of it. That's an odd name for a battle.

 

[msommer]

OP couldn't wait five more days?????

 

[Guest]

OP couldn't wait five more days?????

Surprised Tim didn't start this thread 6 months ago.

 

[Al O'Pecia]

OP couldn't wait five more days?????

He made me check my phone to make sure I knew what day it is.

 

[Jack White]

That's all we need is another thread glorifying war and mass killing.

 

[Eephus]

The #1 Hit 70 years ago

 

[jonessed]

That's all we need is another thread glorifying war and mass killing.

There is no glorifying in here. The descriptions are awful. It had to be done though.

 

[timschochet]

That's all we need is another thread glorifying war and mass killing.

There is no glorifying in here. The descriptions are awful. It had to be done though.

I disagree. All battles are terrible. But the USA didn't start this one. Our soldiers fought heroically, and in so doing they helped to save the lives of possibly millions of people. If the Nazis had won this battle it would have delayed the war another 6-8 months, which would have meant a million more people dying in Hitler's death camps. It also might have meant the use of nuclear weapons in Europe. Thanks to the valor of our soldiers, none of that happened. This was a glorious victory, one of our greatest, and deserves to be remembered as such.

 

[T Bell]

The greatest loss of casualties in the history of the US Army occurred in this battle. I think it was around 70,000. Staggering number.

 

[Jack White]

That's all we need is another thread glorifying war and mass killing.

There is no glorifying in here. The descriptions are awful. It had to be done though.

I disagree. All battles are terrible. But the USA didn't start this one. Our soldiers fought heroically, and in so doing they helped to save the lives of possibly millions of people. If the Nazis had won this battle it would have delayed the war another 6-8 months, which would have meant a million more people dying in Hitler's death camps. It also might have meant the use of nuclear weapons in Europe.Thanks to the valor of our soldiers, none of that happened. This was a glorious victory, one of our greatest, and deserves to be remembered as such.

That is, of course, conventional wisdom, and what we were all taught in our youth.

And it's all a huge steaming pile of hot lunch.

The idea that by killing millions, we saved millions . . . is insane.

 

[timschochet]

That's all we need is another thread glorifying war and mass killing.

There is no glorifying in here. The descriptions are awful. It had to be done though.

I disagree. All battles are terrible. But the USA didn't start this one. Our soldiers fought heroically, and in so doing they helped to save the lives of possibly millions of people. If the Nazis had won this battle it would have delayed the war another 6-8 months, which would have meant a million more people dying in Hitler's death camps. It also might have meant the use of nuclear weapons in Europe.Thanks to the valor of our soldiers, none of that happened. This was a glorious victory, one of our greatest, and deserves to be remembered as such.

That is, of course, conventional wisdom, and what we were all taught in our youth.

And it's all a huge steaming pile of hot lunch.

The idea that by killing millions, we saved millions . . . is insane.

We killed millions during World War II? Link?

 

[Tom Servo]

Nuts!

Fixed.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

I spoke of this in another thread, but I re-mention it here as a way to honor a friend who has passed away, and his father, also passed away, who was always very good to me.

My buddies dad was a very kind and gentle man. A bit older than other friend's fathers, generous to a fault, but mostly when I saw him he would drift off into a nap. He use to hire me to do choirs around his place, and to try to teach his son, my friend how to do them along with me. Neither my friend nor his Pops seemed capable of even the most mundane household repairs or maintenance. Art, the Dad, in particular never struck me as a man capable of surviving for more than 5 minutes out of doors. His idea of roughing it was having to stand up and walk a few feet on his air conditioned porch to grab a bottle of Perrier out of the cooler.

It turns out that this powderpuff of a man I knew was a young man once and that once was during WWII. I found out from his obit that he had fought, been wounded multiple times, continued fighting and was eventually captured by the Germans during the Battle of the Bulge. He was just an infantryman, and a Jew, and as such the Germans were not particularly kind to him in his capture. He was marched, with gunshot wounds in an arm and his side, and with burns on his back, through the harshest winter in 70 years out of the Ardennes, without medical aid and back to Stalag 9, the infamous Bad Orb, where he was held for 5 months as a prisoner of war. He received a Purple Heart, and Silver and Bronze Stars.

Neither he nor my friend ever spoke of this while I knew them. There was no memorabilia in either of his homes that would indicate he was ever in the war.

For a time when I was 16 to 18 years old I worked at an exclusive Jewish Country Club in Milwaukee. He was a member. He was a successful businessman, but by the standards of the place probably below average in wealth. He was a quiet man and one without any particular political connection nor hiring power, so not a man whose friendship had to be curried. Yet when Art was at the club every single member there differed to him in all ways. I could never figure that out as a kid. It turns out I have recently learned this was because every single Member at that club knew of his story, his service, and honored it.

Looking back now this colors my memories of events from my teens. Like I said, he was the Father of my best friend. Being young, irresponsible, generally stoned and basically without boundaries Tom and I decided I would have lunch with he and his father at the club. This violated any number of protocols. Workers were certainly not allowed to dine with members, more less in the main dinning room. We, Tom and I, walked in, sat down at Art's table and were waiting for him. Instantly the most powerful members of the club came up to demand the outrage end. The Manager came by to tell me I was fired, in the world of Country Clubs we had violated them. Before things went any further my fiend's Dad arrived. The crowd around us all stopped and looked in his direction as he took his time crossing the room, stopping occasionally to shake a hand or chat up a table. Art took a good five minutes to cross about a 60 foot distance. The entire time nothing was said at our table, they all just watched him. He made then wait. When he got to the table he sat down, said hello to the club President and said he did not think he would be seeing him until they played cards that afternoon, clearly dismissing the man who left without a word. The other outraged members followed. Art looked at the Club Manager, ordered a drink, asked what Tom and I wanted to drink, me underage at the time and this known to the Manager, we both ordered beers, and then Art asked the manager if he would mind very much bringing them himself instead of having the wait staff do so. The manager complied, seething, as other members were now watching the scene and employees were peeking into the room from the several service doors and obviously enjoying the scene. We had a nice lunch. At the time I was not one to dwell on Art's ability to dismiss an entire room with a look and a word or two.

 

[Jack White]

That's all we need is another thread glorifying war and mass killing.

There is no glorifying in here. The descriptions are awful. It had to be done though.

I disagree. All battles are terrible. But the USA didn't start this one. Our soldiers fought heroically, and in so doing they helped to save the lives of possibly millions of people. If the Nazis had won this battle it would have delayed the war another 6-8 months, which would have meant a million more people dying in Hitler's death camps. It also might have meant the use of nuclear weapons in Europe.Thanks to the valor of our soldiers, none of that happened. This was a glorious victory, one of our greatest, and deserves to be remembered as such.

That is, of course, conventional wisdom, and what we were all taught in our youth.

And it's all a huge steaming pile of hot lunch.

The idea that by killing millions, we saved millions . . . is insane.

We killed millions during World War II? Link?

Go look it up yourself. How many people died in WWII?

And for what? So we could replace Hitler with Stalin? How did that work out?

The idea that war will advance freedom is insane.

 

[Jayrod]

That's all we need is another thread glorifying war and mass killing.

There is no glorifying in here. The descriptions are awful. It had to be done though.

I disagree. All battles are terrible. But the USA didn't start this one. Our soldiers fought heroically, and in so doing they helped to save the lives of possibly millions of people. If the Nazis had won this battle it would have delayed the war another 6-8 months, which would have meant a million more people dying in Hitler's death camps. It also might have meant the use of nuclear weapons in Europe.Thanks to the valor of our soldiers, none of that happened. This was a glorious victory, one of our greatest, and deserves to be remembered as such.

That is, of course, conventional wisdom, and what we were all taught in our youth.

And it's all a huge steaming pile of hot lunch.

The idea that by killing millions, we saved millions . . . is insane.

We killed millions during World War II? Link?

Go look it up yourself. How many people died in WWII?

And for what? So we could replace Hitler with Stalin? How did that work out?

The idea that war will advance freedom is insane.

Hitler started the war, so the deaths are on him, not us. And he would have been far worse ruling all of Europe than Stalin ever became.

 

[Jayrod]

I spoke of this in another thread, but I re-mention it here as a way to honor a friend who has passed away, and his father, also passed away, who was always very good to me.

My buddies dad was a very kind and gentle man. A bit older than other friend's fathers, generous to a fault, but mostly when I saw him he would drift off into a nap. He use to hire me to do choirs around his place, and to try to teach his son, my friend how to do them along with me. Neither my friend nor his Pops seemed capable of even the most mundane household repairs or maintenance. Art, the Dad, in particular never struck me as a man capable of surviving for more than 5 minutes out of doors. His idea of roughing it was having to stand up and walk a few feet on his air conditioned porch to grab a bottle of Perrier out of the cooler.

It turns out that this powderpuff of a man I knew was a young man once and that once was during WWII. I found out from his obit that he had fought, been wounded multiple times, continued fighting and was eventually captured by the Germans during the Battle of the Bulge. He was just an infantryman, and a Jew, and as such the Germans were not particularly kind to him in his capture. He was marched, with gunshot wounds in an arm and his side, and with burns on his back, through the harshest winter in 70 years out of the Ardennes, without medical aid and back to Stalag 9, the infamous Bad Orb, where he was held for 5 months as a prisoner of war. He received a Purple Heart, and Silver and Bronze Stars.

Neither he nor my friend ever spoke of this while I knew them. There was no memorabilia in either of his homes that would indicate he was ever in the war.

For a time when I was 16 to 18 years old I worked at an exclusive Jewish Country Club in Milwaukee. He was a member. He was a successful businessman, but by the standards of the place probably below average in wealth. He was a quiet man and one without any particular political connection nor hiring power, so not a man whose friendship had to be curried. Yet when Art was at the club every single member there differed to him in all ways. I could never figure that out as a kid. It turns out I have recently learned this was because every single Member at that club knew of his story, his service, and honored it.

Looking back now this colors my memories of events from my teens. Like I said, he was the Father of my best friend. Being young, irresponsible, generally stoned and basically without boundaries Tom and I decided I would have lunch with he and his father at the club. This violated any number of protocols. Workers were certainly not allowed to dine with members, more less in the main dinning room. We, Tom and I, walked in, sat down at Art's table and were waiting for him. Instantly the most powerful members of the club came up to demand the outrage end. The Manager came by to tell me I was fired, in the world of Country Clubs we had violated them. Before things went any further my fiend's Dad arrived. The crowd around us all stopped and looked in his direction as he took his time crossing the room, stopping occasionally to shake a hand or chat up a table. Art took a good five minutes to cross about a 60 foot distance. The entire time nothing was said at our table, they all just watched him. He made then wait. When he got to the table he sat down, said hello to the club President and said he did not think he would be seeing him until they played cards that afternoon, clearly dismissing the man who left without a word. The other outraged members followed. Art looked at the Club Manager, ordered a drink, asked what Tom and I wanted to drink, me underage at the time and this known to the Manager, we both ordered beers, and then Art asked the manager if he would mind very much bringing them himself instead of having the wait staff do so. The manager complied, seething, as other members were now watching the scene and employees were peeking into the room from the several service doors and obviously enjoying the scene. We had a nice lunch. At the time I was not one to dwell on Art's ability to dismiss an entire room with a look and a word or two.

Great story.

 

[Jayrod]

That's all we need is another thread glorifying war and mass killing.

I think this assumption is where things went awry with you.

That's not what we are doing here.

 

[timschochet]

I did not ask how many people died in World War II. I asked how many people WE, the United States, killed in World War II.

As for your the rest of your statement, my grandfather was an inmate at a Nazi death camp

and liberated by the US Army in April, 1945. At that time he was suffering from typhus and weighed 72 pounds. Without the United States, he and the rest of my family would have been dead. Along with thousands of others.

Your post disgusts me. Take your bull#### somewhere else.

 

[Tom Servo]

I spoke of this in another thread, but I re-mention it here as a way to honor a friend who has passed away, and his father, also passed away, who was always very good to me.

Cool story.

 

[timschochet]

DW, loved your story.

 

[Tom Servo]

I did not ask how many people died in World War II. I asked how many people WE, the United States, killed in World War II.

As for your the rest of your statement, my grandfather was an inmate at a Nazi death camp

and liberated by the US Army in April, 1945. At that time he was suffering from typhus and weighed 72 pounds. Without the United States, he and the rest of my family would have been dead. Along with thousands of others.

Your post disgusts me. Take your bull#### somewhere else.

I've never liked one of your posts until now. Good work here.

 

[timschochet]

Sorry, but it really pisses me off when people who know absolutely nothing about the sacrifice of our soldiers and how many lives they saved spout off nonsense like this.

Yes it's personal to me; I won't deny that. But it's also one of the greatest moments in American history . We really did bring freedom to millions of people under the yoke of the greatest evil the world has ever known. That is not hyperbole. We should be proud of that fact, forever.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

DW, loved your story.

When liberated Art was in segregation, designated for transport to the Labor Camp at Berga. My understanding was that Berga is where Jews were sent to be worked to death alongside Slavs and Russian POWs who fared worse than our own.

 

[timschochet]

Lol Tom Servo. You never liked ONE of my posts until now? That's a lot to dislike.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

I did not ask how many people died in World War II. I asked how many people WE, the United States, killed in World War II.

As for your the rest of your statement, my grandfather was an inmate at a Nazi death camp

and liberated by the US Army in April, 1945. At that time he was suffering from typhus and weighed 72 pounds. Without the United States, he and the rest of my family would have been dead. Along with thousands of others.

Your post disgusts me. Take your bull#### somewhere else.

At the Country Club I worked at it was not at all unusual to see forearms tattooed with serial numbers. I bet we had a dozen members who survived the camps. Probably most of the members had some close connection to the holocaust.

 

[timschochet]

DW, loved your story.

When liberated Art was segregated, designated for transport to the Labor Camp at Berga. My understanding was that Berga is were Jews were sent to be worked to death alongside Slavs and Russian POWs who fared worse than our own..

not familiar with Berga. Do you mean Bergen-Belson? That was the first camp Patton liberated. My grandfather was at Mauthasen, which was the 2nd camp liberated and I think is located outside Vienna.

 

[Jack White]

I did not ask how many people died in World War II. I asked how many people WE, the United States, killed in World War II.

As for your the rest of your statement, my grandfather was an inmate at a Nazi death camp

and liberated by the US Army in April, 1945. At that time he was suffering from typhus and weighed 72 pounds. Without the United States, he and the rest of my family would have been dead. Along with thousands of others.

Your post disgusts me. Take your bull#### somewhere else.

"We" don't kill people in wars; governments kill people. War is the health of the state, as Randolph Bourne explained.

As for your disgust, that's your problem. You think I should go away just because you say so?

 

[timschochet]

I did not ask how many people died in World War II. I asked how many people WE, the United States, killed in World War II.

As for your the rest of your statement, my grandfather was an inmate at a Nazi death camp

and liberated by the US Army in April, 1945. At that time he was suffering from typhus and weighed 72 pounds. Without the United States, he and the rest of my family would have been dead. Along with thousands of others.

Your post disgusts me. Take your bull#### somewhere else.

"We" don't kill people in wars; governments kill people. War is the health of the state, as Randolph Bourne explained.

As for your disgust, that's your problem. You think I should go away just because you say so?

it wouldn't displease me.

 

[Jack White]

Sorry, but it really pisses me off when people who know absolutely nothing about the sacrifice of our soldiers and how many lives they saved spout off nonsense like this.

Yes it's personal to me; I won't deny that. But it's also one of the greatest moments in American history . We really did bring freedom to millions of people under the yoke of the greatest evil the world has ever known. That is not hyperbole. We should be proud of that fact, forever.

Soldiers don't save lives; they end them. That's their job.

You can't make people free by killing them.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

DW, loved your story.

When liberated Art was segregated, designated for transport to the Labor Camp at Berga. My understanding was that Berga is were Jews were sent to be worked to death alongside Slavs and Russian POWs who fared worse than our own..

not familiar with Berga. Do you mean Bergen-Belson? That was the first camp Patton liberated. My grandfather was at Mauthasen, which was the 2nd camp liberated and I think is located outside Vienna.

My understanding is that it was a satellite camp to Buchenwald. Jewish POWs had an extremely high death rate there. Most Jewish POWs who were remotely healthy were sent over in February to be worked to death. the less healthy were designated for transport but Berga actually was in danger of being liberated first so transports were stopped and confused. the Nazi's had to evaluate the worth of slave labor from diseased and dying men, transport costs, and toward the end the optics of piles of corpses versus walking corpses as witnesses. A brutal time and an uncertain history as I try to find out more about my friend's Dad.

 

[T Bell]

That's all we need is another thread glorifying war and mass killing.

There is no glorifying in here. The descriptions are awful. It had to be done though.

I disagree. All battles are terrible. But the USA didn't start this one. Our soldiers fought heroically, and in so doing they helped to save the lives of possibly millions of people. If the Nazis had won this battle it would have delayed the war another 6-8 months, which would have meant a million more people dying in Hitler's death camps. It also might have meant the use of nuclear weapons in Europe.Thanks to the valor of our soldiers, none of that happened. This was a glorious victory, one of our greatest, and deserves to be remembered as such.

That is, of course, conventional wisdom, and what we were all taught in our youth.

And it's all a huge steaming pile of hot lunch.

The idea that by killing millions, we saved millions . . . is insane.

You're naive, son, and your soft implied apology for German and Japanese hegemony is actually offensive to me.

 

[Jack White]

I did not ask how many people died in World War II. I asked how many people WE, the United States, killed in World War II.

As for your the rest of your statement, my grandfather was an inmate at a Nazi death camp

and liberated by the US Army in April, 1945. At that time he was suffering from typhus and weighed 72 pounds. Without the United States, he and the rest of my family would have been dead. Along with thousands of others.

Your post disgusts me. Take your bull#### somewhere else.

"We" don't kill people in wars; governments kill people. War is the health of the state, as Randolph Bourne explained.

As for your disgust, that's your problem. You think I should go away just because you say so?

it wouldn't displease me.

Why do you fear people who dare to disagree with you?

What's wrong with having different opinions expressed and debated?

Why do you resort to a plea for censorship?

 

[Jack White]

That's all we need is another thread glorifying war and mass killing.

There is no glorifying in here. The descriptions are awful. It had to be done though.

I disagree. All battles are terrible. But the USA didn't start this one. Our soldiers fought heroically, and in so doing they helped to save the lives of possibly millions of people. If the Nazis had won this battle it would have delayed the war another 6-8 months, which would have meant a million more people dying in Hitler's death camps. It also might have meant the use of nuclear weapons in Europe.Thanks to the valor of our soldiers, none of that happened. This was a glorious victory, one of our greatest, and deserves to be remembered as such.

That is, of course, conventional wisdom, and what we were all taught in our youth.

And it's all a huge steaming pile of hot lunch.

The idea that by killing millions, we saved millions . . . is insane.

You're naive, son, and your soft implied apology for German and Japanese hegemony is actually offensive to me.

That's your inference, not my implication.

I oppose mass murder by ALL governments. That includes Germany and Japan.

 

[Jayrod]

I did not ask how many people died in World War II. I asked how many people WE, the United States, killed in World War II.

As for your the rest of your statement, my grandfather was an inmate at a Nazi death camp

and liberated by the US Army in April, 1945. At that time he was suffering from typhus and weighed 72 pounds. Without the United States, he and the rest of my family would have been dead. Along with thousands of others.

Your post disgusts me. Take your bull#### somewhere else.

"We" don't kill people in wars; governments kill people. War is the health of the state, as Randolph Bourne explained.

As for your disgust, that's your problem. You think I should go away just because you say so?

it wouldn't displease me.

Why do you fear people who dare to disagree with you?

What's wrong with having different opinions expressed and debated?

Why do you resort to a plea for censorship?

We aren't afraid...and different opinions are fine, but its not like we've never heard this idiocy before.

And its not a plea for censorship, more like when I shoot a stray dog with a bb gun at 2 am because it won't stop barking. We just want you to shut up already.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

I did not ask how many people died in World War II. I asked how many people WE, the United States, killed in World War II.

As for your the rest of your statement, my grandfather was an inmate at a Nazi death camp

and liberated by the US Army in April, 1945. At that time he was suffering from typhus and weighed 72 pounds. Without the United States, he and the rest of my family would have been dead. Along with thousands of others.

Your post disgusts me. Take your bull#### somewhere else.

"We" don't kill people in wars; governments kill people. War is the health of the state, as Randolph Bourne explained.

As for your disgust, that's your problem. You think I should go away just because you say so?

it wouldn't displease me.

Why do you fear people who dare to disagree with you?

What's wrong with having different opinions expressed and debated?

Why do you resort to a plea for censorship?

We aren't afraid...and different opinions are fine, but its not like we've never heard this idiocy before.

And its not a plea for censorship, more like when I shoot a stray dog with a bb gun at 2 am because it won't stop barking. We just want you to shut up already.

I laughed.

 

[beer 30]

DW, loved your story.

When liberated Art was segregated, designated for transport to the Labor Camp at Berga. My understanding was that Berga is were Jews were sent to be worked to death alongside Slavs and Russian POWs who fared worse than our own..

Berga

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

DW, loved your story.

When liberated Art was segregated, designated for transport to the Labor Camp at Berga. My understanding was that Berga is were Jews were sent to be worked to death alongside Slavs and Russian POWs who fared worse than our own..

Berga

http://www.cnn.com/2010/LIVING/10/28/acevedo.holocaust.soldier/

Here's another link for you. You will like this one because it also provides an anecdote for your immigration arguments.

 

[boots11234]

I did not ask how many people died in World War II. I asked how many people WE, the United States, killed in World War II.

As for your the rest of your statement, my grandfather was an inmate at a Nazi death camp

and liberated by the US Army in April, 1945. At that time he was suffering from typhus and weighed 72 pounds. Without the United States, he and the rest of my family would have been dead. Along with thousands of others.

Your post disgusts me. Take your bull#### somewhere else.

I've never liked one of your posts until now. Good work here.

Ugggg. I liked it too. First for everything I guess and for the Op go take your hippy Leftist Bs some place else. I bet you have a masters degree don't you? It's usually the better educated a person is the more morally confused they are.

 

[Jack White]

I did not ask how many people died in World War II. I asked how many people WE, the United States, killed in World War II.

As for your the rest of your statement, my grandfather was an inmate at a Nazi death camp

and liberated by the US Army in April, 1945. At that time he was suffering from typhus and weighed 72 pounds. Without the United States, he and the rest of my family would have been dead. Along with thousands of others.

Your post disgusts me. Take your bull#### somewhere else.

"We" don't kill people in wars; governments kill people. War is the health of the state, as Randolph Bourne explained.

As for your disgust, that's your problem. You think I should go away just because you say so?

it wouldn't displease me.

Why do you fear people who dare to disagree with you?

What's wrong with having different opinions expressed and debated?

Why do you resort to a plea for censorship?

We aren't afraid...and different opinions are fine, but its not like we've never heard this idiocy before.

And its not a plea for censorship, more like when I shoot a stray dog with a bb gun at 2 am because it won't stop barking. We just want you to shut up already.

Censorship is the suppression of speech, public communication or other information which may be considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, politically incorrect or inconvenient as determined by governments, media outlets, authorities or other groups or institutions.

Governments, private organizations and individuals may engage in censorship. (italics mine)

The difference between us is that I oppose mass murder in all its forms, regardless of who perpetrates it. Conversely, you favor mass murder as long as it's perpetrated by people in certain costumes that you approve of.

Is it really so bad to have ONE voice here who opposes war and mass murder?

 

[boots11234]

I did not ask how many people died in World War II. I asked how many people WE, the United States, killed in World War II.

As for your the rest of your statement, my grandfather was an inmate at a Nazi death camp

and liberated by the US Army in April, 1945. At that time he was suffering from typhus and weighed 72 pounds. Without the United States, he and the rest of my family would have been dead. Along with thousands of others.

Your post disgusts me. Take your bull#### somewhere else.

"We" don't kill people in wars; governments kill people. War is the health of the state, as Randolph Bourne explained.

As for your disgust, that's your problem. You think I should go away just because you say so?

it wouldn't displease me.

Why do you fear people who dare to disagree with you?

What's wrong with having different opinions expressed and debated?

Why do you resort to a plea for censorship?

We aren't afraid...and different opinions are fine, but its not like we've never heard this idiocy before.And its not a plea for censorship, more like when I shoot a stray dog with a bb gun at 2 am because it won't stop barking. We just want you to shut up already.

Censorship is the suppression of speech, public communication or other information which may be considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, politically incorrect or inconvenient as determined by governments, media outlets, authorities or other groups or institutions.

Governments, private organizations and individuals may engage in censorship. (italics mine)

The difference between us is that I oppose mass murder in all its forms, regardless of who perpetrates it. Conversely, you favor mass murder as long as it's perpetrated by people in certain costumes that you approve of.


Is it really so bad to have ONE voice here who opposes war and mass murder?

It is when that voice is attached to an idiot.

 

[Jack White]

I did not ask how many people died in World War II. I asked how many people WE, the United States, killed in World War II.

As for your the rest of your statement, my grandfather was an inmate at a Nazi death camp

and liberated by the US Army in April, 1945. At that time he was suffering from typhus and weighed 72 pounds. Without the United States, he and the rest of my family would have been dead. Along with thousands of others.

Your post disgusts me. Take your bull#### somewhere else.

"We" don't kill people in wars; governments kill people. War is the health of the state, as Randolph Bourne explained.

As for your disgust, that's your problem. You think I should go away just because you say so?

it wouldn't displease me.

Why do you fear people who dare to disagree with you?

What's wrong with having different opinions expressed and debated?

Why do you resort to a plea for censorship?

We aren't afraid...and different opinions are fine, but its not like we've never heard this idiocy before.And its not a plea for censorship, more like when I shoot a stray dog with a bb gun at 2 am because it won't stop barking. We just want you to shut up already.

Censorship is the suppression of speech, public communication or other information which may be considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, politically incorrect or inconvenient as determined by governments, media outlets, authorities or other groups or institutions.

Governments, private organizations and individuals may engage in censorship. (italics mine)

The difference between us is that I oppose mass murder in all its forms, regardless of who perpetrates it. Conversely, you favor mass murder as long as it's perpetrated by people in certain costumes that you approve of.



Is it really so bad to have ONE voice here who opposes war and mass murder?

It is when that voice is attached to an idiot.

An idiot, dolt, or dullard is an intellectually disabled person, or someone who acts in a self-defeating or significantly counterproductive way. Archaically the word mome has also been used. The similar terms moron, imbecile, and cretin have all gained specialized meanings in modern times. An idiot is said to be idiotic, and to suffer from idiocy. A dunce is an idiot who is specifically incapable of learning. An idiot differs from a fool (who is unwise) and an ignoramus (who is uneducated/an ignorant), neither of which refers to someone with low intelligence. In modern English usage, the terms "idiot" and "idiocy" describe an extreme folly or stupidity, and its symptoms (foolish or stupid utterance or deed). In psychology, it is a historical term for the state or condition now called profound intellectual disability.

Great job: encounter someone who dares to disagree with you, and you resort to censorship and name-calling.

I will continue to post here where and when it suits me. I don't really care if you -- or anyone else -- doesn't like it. I find that when people are afraid or insecure, they often tend to resort to "shut up" rather than having a conversation.

Oh, and have a nice day!

 

[timschochet]

If Jack White can unite Boots and I, that really says something.

Anyone who equates what the US did during WWII to what the Nazis did is really beyond the pale.

 

[timschochet]

DW, loved your story.

When liberated Art was segregated, designated for transport to the Labor Camp at Berga. My understanding was that Berga is were Jews were sent to be worked to death alongside Slavs and Russian POWs who fared worse than our own..

Berga

http://www.cnn.com/2010/LIVING/10/28/acevedo.holocaust.soldier/Here's another link for you. You will like this one because it also provides an anecdote for your immigration arguments.

Thanks DW. It's certainly true that much of my sentiment regarding illegal immigrants was shaped by my family history.

 

[Tom Servo]

Lol Tom Servo. You never liked ONE of my posts until now? That's a lot to dislike.

Absence of like is not a dislike.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

I did not ask how many people died in World War II. I asked how many people WE, the United States, killed in World War II.

As for your the rest of your statement, my grandfather was an inmate at a Nazi death camp

and liberated by the US Army in April, 1945. At that time he was suffering from typhus and weighed 72 pounds. Without the United States, he and the rest of my family would have been dead. Along with thousands of others.

Your post disgusts me. Take your bull#### somewhere else.

"We" don't kill people in wars; governments kill people. War is the health of the state, as Randolph Bourne explained.

As for your disgust, that's your problem. You think I should go away just because you say so?

it wouldn't displease me.

Why do you fear people who dare to disagree with you?

What's wrong with having different opinions expressed and debated?

Why do you resort to a plea for censorship?

We aren't afraid...and different opinions are fine, but its not like we've never heard this idiocy before.And its not a plea for censorship, more like when I shoot a stray dog with a bb gun at 2 am because it won't stop barking. We just want you to shut up already.

Censorship is the suppression of speech, public communication or other information which may be considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, politically incorrect or inconvenient as determined by governments, media outlets, authorities or other groups or institutions.

Governments, private organizations and individuals may engage in censorship. (italics mine)

The difference between us is that I oppose mass murder in all its forms, regardless of who perpetrates it. Conversely, you favor mass murder as long as it's perpetrated by people in certain costumes that you approve of.



Is it really so bad to have ONE voice here who opposes war and mass murder?

It is when that voice is attached to an idiot.

An idiot, dolt, or dullard is an intellectually disabled person, or someone who acts in a self-defeating or significantly counterproductive way. Archaically the word mome has also been used. The similar terms moron, imbecile, and cretin have all gained specialized meanings in modern times. An idiot is said to be idiotic, and to suffer from idiocy. A dunce is an idiot who is specifically incapable of learning. An idiot differs from a fool (who is unwise) and an ignoramus (who is uneducated/an ignorant), neither of which refers to someone with low intelligence. In modern English usage, the terms "idiot" and "idiocy" describe an extreme folly or stupidity, and its symptoms (foolish or stupid utterance or deed). In psychology, it is a historical term for the state or condition now called profound intellectual disability.

Great job: encounter someone who dares to disagree with you, and you resort to censorship and name-calling.

I will continue to post here where and when it suits me. I don't really care if you -- or anyone else -- doesn't like it. I find that when people are afraid or insecure, they often tend to resort to "shut up" rather than having a conversation.

Oh, and have a nice day!

Would you expand your etymology to include dolt, dullard, and dip####, the "three D's". I love learning, and you clearly are a learned man (or woman - I may be presuming too much from your screen name).

Why dullard did not make the list so as to be "the four D's", I do not know.