The best QB in NFL history (1 Viewer)

[shader]

That's the bottom line on Peyton. He's the best regular season QB ever. But in the post-season, he's very average and usually makes big mistakes at inappropriate times.

And don't tell me the int wasn't Peyton's fault. Just don't.

 

[azgroover]

I was thinking that this morning for about 2 minutes until I realized it would be hard to plug in any of the other 31 starting QBs in football, let alone many of the all time greats and even get that team to the Super Bowl. Much less contend like they do year in and year out. Yes, this is a blemish on his record, but he is the Colts.

 

[David Yudkin]

IMO, overall QBs get too much credit/blame for winning or losing. It's a team game and if any number of players in any game played better the QB wouldn't be made to be the goat on a single play that ended up costing his team the game.

Sure, there are games where a QB makes a boatload of mistakes, turns the ball over all game long, and generally doesn't play well (see Brady vs. BAL this post season). But if Manning didn't have pinpoint accuracy yesterday the Colts could have lost by way more than they did. And Manning wasn't the one that let Brees complete 82% of his passes.

 

[Canadian Content]

starting 0-3 as a youngster doesn't help the stats.... clearly he got better with age and learned to play in more pressure games...

 

[ConstruxBoy]

That's the bottom line on Peyton. He's the best regular season QB ever. But in the post-season, he's very average and usually makes big mistakes at inappropriate times.And don't tell me the int wasn't Peyton's fault. Just don't.

I think most analysts have pointed out that Wayne quit on the route and the ball was thrown where he should be. So really it wasn't Peyton's fault. What WAS his fault is getting so pissed about Garcon's drop and then ignoring him for half of the game.

 

[comfortably numb]

Eh

Say what you will.

If I am starting a team and need a QB for my franchise, It is Manning I want.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

IMO, overall QBs get too much credit/blame for winning or losing. It's a team game and if any number of players in any game played better the QB wouldn't be made to be the goat on a single play that ended up costing his team the game. Sure, there are games where a QB makes a boatloat of mistakes, turns the ball over all game long, and generally doesn't play well (see Brady vs. BAL this post season). But if Manning didn't have pinpoint accuracy yesterday the Colts could have lost by way more than they did. And Manning wasn't the one that let Brees complete 82% of his passes.

Manning didn't lose that game, the Saints played/coached an almost perfect game to win it.

 

[Steeler]

IMO, overall QBs get too much credit/blame for winning or losing. It's a team game and if any number of players in any game played better the QB wouldn't be made to be the goat on a single play that ended up costing his team the game. Sure, there are games where a QB makes a boatloat of mistakes, turns the ball over all game long, and generally doesn't play well (see Brady vs. BAL this post season). But if Manning didn't have pinpoint accuracy yesterday the Colts could have lost by way more than they did. And Manning wasn't the one that let Brees complete 82% of his passes.

But with the game on the line in the 4th quarter, and his team needing him to produce, Manning threw a pick-six

 

[Capella]

Can't be the best QB in NFL history and throw a pick-six in the last 5 minutes of the Super Bowl while your team is down 7 and you are inside the opponent 50.

Sorry. It just cannot happen. He is out of the conversation unless he does something amazing in the next few years.

ps - I am a huge Manning fan. But you can't have him in the Montana conversation now.

 

[Godsbrother]

That's the bottom line on Peyton. He's the best regular season QB ever. But in the post-season, he's very average and usually makes big mistakes at inappropriate times.And don't tell me the int wasn't Peyton's fault. Just don't.

I think most analysts have pointed out that Wayne quit on the route and the ball was thrown where he should be. So really it wasn't Peyton's fault. What WAS his fault is getting so pissed about Garcon's drop and then ignoring him for half of the game.

Most analyst are full of crap then. Manning telegraphed the play, Porter read it and jumped the route right in front of Wayne and Manning didn't have a whole lot on the pass. Great play on Porter's part, bad play on Manning's part.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

That's the bottom line on Peyton. He's the best regular season QB ever. But in the post-season, he's very average and usually makes big mistakes at inappropriate times.And don't tell me the int wasn't Peyton's fault. Just don't.

I think most analysts have pointed out that Wayne quit on the route and the ball was thrown where he should be. So really it wasn't Peyton's fault. What WAS his fault is getting so pissed about Garcon's drop and then ignoring him for half of the game.

Most analyst are full of crap then. Manning telegraphed the play, Porter read it and jumped the route right in front of Wayne and Manning didn't have a whole lot on the pass. Great play on Porter's part, bad play on Manning's part.

Eh, I know Porter said he got that from watching tape on Manning and he probably did. But I don't think Wayne put forth the effort needed on the route. In fact, he seemed out it all game.

 

[KingEl]

IMO, overall QBs get too much credit/blame for winning or losing. It's a team game and if any number of players in any game played better the QB wouldn't be made to be the goat on a single play that ended up costing his team the game. Sure, there are games where a QB makes a boatloat of mistakes, turns the ball over all game long, and generally doesn't play well (see Brady vs. BAL this post season). But if Manning didn't have pinpoint accuracy yesterday the Colts could have lost by way more than they did. And Manning wasn't the one that let Brees complete 82% of his passes.

I didn't think Manning has pinpoint accuracy last night at all. He played a mostly dink and dunk game- the few longer passes he threw were either overthrown or almost picked. At least one time the Saint's player would have had the pick if he turned around in time to see the ball, and another on a deep sideline pass, the ball was underthrown and the Saints player turned the wrong way.. The last drive, Manning threw the ball in the wrong spot and it was intercepted but the Saints player had his foot out from being pushed out by the WR. If anything, Manning was lucky to not have a terrible game last night. He did loft a beauty to Clark towards the end of the game, but overall Manning looked tentative and "his" playcalling (since everyone say's it's really him) was poor along with clock management at certain times..... He just didn't have a good game, and even though it is a team game- that drive with 5 minutes to go was his chance to truly cement his status- and whether you think it was Wayne's fault or Mannings- it went bad. Manning is great- but over his carreer and there have been enough games to determine this- I don't beleive he handles the pressure as well as the best did.

 

[Happy Ragnarok]

IMO, overall QBs get too much credit/blame for winning or losing. It's a team game and if any number of players in any game played better the QB wouldn't be made to be the goat on a single play that ended up costing his team the game. Sure, there are games where a QB makes a boatloat of mistakes, turns the ball over all game long, and generally doesn't play well (see Brady vs. BAL this post season). But if Manning didn't have pinpoint accuracy yesterday the Colts could have lost by way more than they did. And Manning wasn't the one that let Brees complete 82% of his passes.

Manning didn't lose that game, the Saints played/coached an almost perfect game to win it.

He didn't take it over and win it, either. You aren't necessarily to blame for a loss if you don't rise up and take the Super Bowl over on the strength of your own talent and leadership. But you aren't the GOAT, either. Montana comes through there. Brady comes through there. Warner comes through there. Manning didn't. Again.

 

[Godsbrother]

IMO, overall QBs get too much credit/blame for winning or losing. It's a team game and if any number of players in any game played better the QB wouldn't be made to be the goat on a single play that ended up costing his team the game. Sure, there are games where a QB makes a boatloat of mistakes, turns the ball over all game long, and generally doesn't play well (see Brady vs. BAL this post season). But if Manning didn't have pinpoint accuracy yesterday the Colts could have lost by way more than they did. And Manning wasn't the one that let Brees complete 82% of his passes.

Manning didn't lose that game, the Saints played/coached an almost perfect game to win it.

We have been hearing for years how Manning is smarter than every other QB in the league and that he is effectively a coach on the field. Of course he wasn't entirely to blame but Manning most certainly did lose the game and no matter how you slice it he hasn't been all that great in the postseason.

 

[Godsbrother]

IMO, overall QBs get too much credit/blame for winning or losing. It's a team game and if any number of players in any game played better the QB wouldn't be made to be the goat on a single play that ended up costing his team the game. Sure, there are games where a QB makes a boatloat of mistakes, turns the ball over all game long, and generally doesn't play well (see Brady vs. BAL this post season). But if Manning didn't have pinpoint accuracy yesterday the Colts could have lost by way more than they did. And Manning wasn't the one that let Brees complete 82% of his passes.

Manning didn't lose that game, the Saints played/coached an almost perfect game to win it.

He didn't take it over and win it, either. You aren't necessarily to blame for a loss if you don't rise up and take the Super Bowl over on the strength of your own talent and leadership. But you aren't the GOAT, either. Montana comes through there. Brady comes through there. Warner comes through there. Manning didn't. Again.

You had me until you got to Warner...

 

[Football Critic]

What are you talkin about?

Brees isnt 9 and 9 in the playoffs....

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

The Colts aren't even in the Super Bowl without Manning. He took a team that wasn't even that good and willed them to several victories all year.

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

The whole reason the Saints went for the onside kick was to keep the ball out of Manning's hands. That speaks for itself.

 

[David Yudkin]

Can't be the best QB in NFL history and throw a pick-six in the last 5 minutes of the Super Bowl while your team is down 7 and you are inside the opponent 50. Sorry. It just cannot happen. He is out of the conversation unless he does something amazing in the next few years.ps - I am a huge Manning fan. But you can't have him in the Montana conversation now.

Montana had 3 post season games with 2 INT and 2 playoff games with 3 INT. He had 3 playoff games with a passer rating in the 30s or 40s. He had 5 playoff games where he had more INT than TD. It's not like he walked on water. Yes, he was a god in the Super Bowl, but things did not go as well in the years when the Niners didn't make the Super Bowl. But no one remembers those games.People have short memories. They remember highlight real games but not the bad games, and 25 years from now people will remember Manning's better games more than his clunkers. And I would not classify his perofrmance yesterday as a clunker. I don't know if his receiver turned out when he was supposed to turn in, but if his receiver did the wrong thing is that Manning's fault? How about if Wayne tipped it in the air and someone intercepted it and still ran it back? Too much happens in the course of a game that gets overlooked and everyone will point to a big play ot two as the reason a team won or lost.Maybe Manning did throw a wayward pass and made a poor decision. Even so, the rest of the game he was excellent. IMO, it's hard to pin a loss on one guy for one play (unless he pretty much did nothing else the rest of the game).

 

[Godsbrother]

The Colts aren't even in the Super Bowl without Manning. He took a team that wasn't even that good and willed them to several victories all year.

Take any team's starting QB away and they likely don't make the Super Bowl. The Colts have been the winningest team in the regular season for the past decade and have one Super Bowl win to show for it. Manning deserves a lot of credit for both.

 

[switz]

That's the bottom line on Peyton. He's the best regular season QB ever. But in the post-season, he's very average and usually makes big mistakes at inappropriate times.And don't tell me the int wasn't Peyton's fault. Just don't.

really.... W/L are result of a TEAM, not a QB.... Peyton is clearly one of the best ever, better than MOST multiple SB winning QBs.

 

[switz]

The whole reason the Saints went for the onside kick was to keep the ball out of Manning's hands. That speaks for itself.

 

[Dr. No]

I'm not a big manning guy, but you can't let this game be the deciding factor here.

It is utterly amazing that Manning could get an otherwise average team like this to the super bowl.

and I left that game thinking that the Colts might still be the better team but that the Saints really pushed the limits of an aggressive gameplan and had a lot of things work out in their favor to get them to win.

It took a perfect plan and perfect execution to get that win.

I was rooting for the Saints, I'm glad they won it all... but I still feel the same way I did after the Vikings v. Saints game.. that it took some definite good fortune and some good breaks to win.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

The whole reason the Saints went for the onside kick was to keep the ball out of Manning's hands. That speaks for itself.

I still have to say here that Montana > Manning. But then to me Montana > everyone

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

That's the bottom line on Peyton. He's the best regular season QB ever. But in the post-season, he's very average and usually makes big mistakes at inappropriate times.And don't tell me the int wasn't Peyton's fault. Just don't.

He can if his team would perennially be 7-9 team without him on it. The Colts ARE Peyton Manning.

 

[Dr. No]

That's the bottom line on Peyton. He's the best regular season QB ever. But in the post-season, he's very average and usually makes big mistakes at inappropriate times.And don't tell me the int wasn't Peyton's fault. Just don't.

really.... W/L are result of a TEAM, not a QB.... Peyton is clearly one of the best ever, better than MOST multiple SB winning QBs.

Peyton didn't miss the FG, peyton didn't not recover the onside kick attempt, peyton didn't allow 24 of the 31 points.there is no argument that Bradshaw is a better QB than even Marino and the SB count there is 4-0.Montana and Brady get more credit than they deserve also.Still for my money i'll take Peyton, Marino or Elway and their combined 3 superbowl titles over Bradshaw, Montana, Brady and their 12 (err.. 11 because a miracle helmet catch ruined one of them)

 

[azgroover]

IMO, overall QBs get too much credit/blame for winning or losing. It's a team game and if any number of players in any game played better the QB wouldn't be made to be the goat on a single play that ended up costing his team the game. Sure, there are games where a QB makes a boatloat of mistakes, turns the ball over all game long, and generally doesn't play well (see Brady vs. BAL this post season). But if Manning didn't have pinpoint accuracy yesterday the Colts could have lost by way more than they did. And Manning wasn't the one that let Brees complete 82% of his passes.

Manning didn't lose that game, the Saints played/coached an almost perfect game to win it.

He didn't take it over and win it, either. You aren't necessarily to blame for a loss if you don't rise up and take the Super Bowl over on the strength of your own talent and leadership. But you aren't the GOAT, either. Montana comes through there. Brady comes through there. Warner comes through there. Manning didn't. Again.

You had me until you got to Warner...

Had me until Brady. Colts needed more than a FG.

 

[Godsbrother]

The whole reason the Saints went for the onside kick was to keep the ball out of Manning's hands. That speaks for itself.

True but wasn't it interesting that the Colts were most effective yesterday when they were running the ball and that their undoing was an inteception thrown by Manning?Look, Peyton Manning is a great QB, one of the best, but his playoff record is mediocre and is a significant argument against him being the greatest ever.

 

[Godsbrother]

That's the bottom line on Peyton. He's the best regular season QB ever. But in the post-season, he's very average and usually makes big mistakes at inappropriate times.And don't tell me the int wasn't Peyton's fault. Just don't.

He can if his team would perennially be 7-9 team without him on it. The Colts ARE Peyton Manning.

You can't have it both ways - you cannot say Manning is the Colts when the team wins and then when they lose say it is a team game.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Take any team's starting QB away and they likely don't make the Super Bowl. The Colts have been the winningest team in the regular season for the past decade and have one Super Bowl win to show for it. Manning deserves a lot of credit for both.

That's just not true. The 70s Steelers would have won four Superbowls with Kenny Anderson or Brian Sipe at the helm - just to pick two contemporaneous QBs from their OWN DIVISION. Hell, with a true HOF quality QB at the helm, like Anderson, the Steelers might have gone from 1975-1979 without losing a game. With the possible exception of Ringo Starr no one's ever been made to look as much better than he really was by the people around him like Bradshaw was on those Steelers teams.

 

[Godsbrother]

there is no argument that Bradshaw is a better QB than even Marino and the SB count there is 4-0.

Bradshaw was a better QB than Marino or Manning in the post season.

 

[H.K.]

IMO, overall QBs get too much credit/blame for winning or losing.

“A quarterback's job is to go out and win games for his team” - Ken Anderson

You won't find a current or former QB worth his salt that disagrees with that quote. QB's are responsible for scoring at least one more point than their opponent each game, and it doesn't really matter how they do it. Can circumstances not controlled by a QB make that task harder or easier? Absolutely. However, it doesn't alter their accountability one bit.

 

[Godsbrother]

Take any team's starting QB away and they likely don't make the Super Bowl. The Colts have been the winningest team in the regular season for the past decade and have one Super Bowl win to show for it. Manning deserves a lot of credit for both.

That's just not true. The 70s Steelers would have won four Superbowls with Kenny Anderson or Brian Sipe at the helm - just to pick two contemporaneous QBs from their OWN DIVISION. Hell, with a true HOF quality QB at the helm, like Anderson, the Steelers might have gone from 1975-1979 without losing a game. With the possible exception of Ringo Starr no one's ever been made to look as much better than he really was by the people around him like Bradshaw was on those Steelers teams.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Bradshaw, like Manning, called all of his own plays and was effectively the offensive coordinator. Bradshaw was a HUGE part of the 70's championship teams.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

That's the bottom line on Peyton. He's the best regular season QB ever. But in the post-season, he's very average and usually makes big mistakes at inappropriate times.And don't tell me the int wasn't Peyton's fault. Just don't.

He can if his team would perennially be 7-9 team without him on it. The Colts ARE Peyton Manning.

You can't have it both ways - you cannot say Manning is the Colts when the team wins and then when they lose say it is a team game.

Why not? Just because he takes an 8-8 team and makes it 12-4 every year doesn't mean he's made it the best team in the league. There are 52 other guys playing the game after all. Surely they have SOME impact on what happens?

 

[Possum]

Manning is great- but over his carreer and there have been enough games to determine this- I don't beleive he handles the pressure as well as the best did.

 

[H.K.]

The Colts ARE Peyton Manning.

You can't have it both ways - you cannot say Manning is the Colts when the team wins and then when they lose say it is a team game.

Why not? Just because he takes an 8-8 team and makes it 12-4 every year doesn't mean he's made it the best team in the league. There are 52 other guys playing the game after all. Surely they have SOME impact on what happens?

Wait, so now the Colts ARE NOT Peyton Manning?

 

[Capella]

but things did not go as well in the years when the Niners didn't make the Super Bowl. But no one remembers those games.

No they don't. You know why they don't? Because those games weren't the Super Bowl.That's the beauty of sports. They often decide these arguments on the field in the biggest game, not some nerdy spreadsheet. One was decided last night.

 

[Godsbrother]

The Colts ARE Peyton Manning.

You can't have it both ways - you cannot say Manning is the Colts when the team wins and then when they lose say it is a team game.

Why not? Just because he takes an 8-8 team and makes it 12-4 every year doesn't mean he's made it the best team in the league. There are 52 other guys playing the game after all. Surely they have SOME impact on what happens?

Wait, so now the Colts ARE NOT Peyton Manning?

The Colts are only Peyton Manning when they win.

 

[Possum]

That's the bottom line on Peyton. He's the best regular season QB ever. But in the post-season, he's very average and usually makes big mistakes at inappropriate times.

And don't tell me the int wasn't Peyton's fault. Just don't.

He can if his team would perennially be 7-9 team without him on it. The Colts ARE Peyton Manning.

You can't have it both ways - you cannot say Manning is the Colts when the team wins and then when they lose say it is a team game.

Why not? Just because he takes an 8-8 team and makes it 12-4 every year doesn't mean he's made it the best team in the league. There are 52 other guys playing the game after all. Surely they have SOME impact on what happens?

 

[bostonfred]

Peyton is clearly one of the best ever, better than MOST multiple SB winning QBs.

I think most people would agree with this statement. Manning had a chance to move higher up the list last night, and it didn't happen. The interception didn't help, but this is far from his worst playoff game. One thing that did change last night, though, was the argument that Manning would have won as many Superbowls as Brady if he'd been on the Pats, or as Roethlisberger if he were on the Steelers. Leading your team to a win on the biggest stage isn't something you can ever take for granted. Right thinking people will debate Manning vs. Brady for a long time, just like Montana vs. Marino. I've always been a Montana > Marino guy. And among those who believe that Montana is the best of all time, there's a simple test. It would take a lot for Manning to pass Montana for all time greatness. Brady, on the other hand, has more yards, more TDs, a better completion percentage, a better winning percentage, a better playoff record, more Superbowl appearances, more Superbowl wins, and a better best year than Montana, through the same number of years.

 

[switz]

It would take a lot for Manning to pass Montana for all time greatness. Brady, on the other hand, has more yards, more TDs, a better completion percentage, a better winning percentage, a better playoff record, more Superbowl appearances, more Superbowl wins, and a better best year than Montana, through the same number of years.

Not sure I understand your argument. If you're trying to say it's easier to argue that Bray > Montana than it is to argue Manning > Montana, I think you need to check yourself into a mental hospital.Montana > Manning >>>> Brady - it's not really as close as you'd like it to be.

 

[Godsbrother]

Peyton is clearly one of the best ever, better than MOST multiple SB winning QBs.

I think most people would agree with this statement. Manning had a chance to move higher up the list last night, and it didn't happen. The interception didn't help, but this is far from his worst playoff game. One thing that did change last night, though, was the argument that Manning would have won as many Superbowls as Brady if he'd been on the Pats, or as Roethlisberger if he were on the Steelers. Leading your team to a win on the biggest stage isn't something you can ever take for granted.

I think you have legitimate point for Manning on the Patriots. Manning and Brady are very similar.However the o-line has been so bad since 2006 that I doubt that Manning or Brady would have survived a season playing for the Steelers. I am not saying Roethlisberger is the better QB overall because he isn't. But he is the perfect QB for the Steelers. I really don't think that Manning or Brady would hold up playing behind that line.

 

[bostonfred]

It would take a lot for Manning to pass Montana for all time greatness. Brady, on the other hand, has more yards, more TDs, a better completion percentage, a better winning percentage, a better playoff record, more Superbowl appearances, more Superbowl wins, and a better best year than Montana, through the same number of years.

Not sure I understand your argument. If you're trying to say it's easier to argue that Bray > Montana than it is to argue Manning > Montana, I think you need to check yourself into a mental hospital.Montana > Manning >>>> Brady - it's not really as close as you'd like it to be.

As I said, through the same point in their relative careers, Brady exceeds Montana in every meaningful measure. I don't put Brady ahead of Montana, but Brady and Manning are the only active QBs with the ability to pass Montana on the all time list, and despite Manning's better yardage totals and other career totals, Brady is closer to doing it. As a side note, My brother's been in and out of mental hospitals for years, and is currently homeless in California, so I don't really appreciate that kind of attack. I'm sorry for saying something bad about your favorite player.

 

[Da Guru]

IMO, overall QBs get too much credit/blame for winning or losing. It's a team game and if any number of players in any game played better the QB wouldn't be made to be the goat on a single play that ended up costing his team the game. Sure, there are games where a QB makes a boatload of mistakes, turns the ball over all game long, and generally doesn't play well (see Brady vs. BAL this post season). But if Manning didn't have pinpoint accuracy yesterday the Colts could have lost by way more than they did. And Manning wasn't the one that let Brees complete 82% of his passes.

I could not agree more.If the Colts defense would have forced a TO or two, or stopped the Saints Mannings stat line was more than enough to win. The problem with a game like yesterday is that with the Saints gambling and winning it forced Manning to play a flawless game..that does not happen too often in the NFL.

 

[KingEl]

Can't be the best QB in NFL history and throw a pick-six in the last 5 minutes of the Super Bowl while your team is down 7 and you are inside the opponent 50. Sorry. It just cannot happen. He is out of the conversation unless he does something amazing in the next few years.ps - I am a huge Manning fan. But you can't have him in the Montana conversation now.

Montana had 3 post season games with 2 INT and 2 playoff games with 3 INT. He had 3 playoff games with a passer rating in the 30s or 40s. He had 5 playoff games where he had more INT than TD. It's not like he walked on water. Yes, he was a god in the Super Bowl, but things did not go as well in the years when the Niners didn't make the Super Bowl. But no one remembers those games.People have short memories. They remember highlight real games but not the bad games, and 25 years from now people will remember Manning's better games more than his clunkers. And I would not classify his perofrmance yesterday as a clunker. I don't know if his receiver turned out when he was supposed to turn in, but if his receiver did the wrong thing is that Manning's fault? How about if Wayne tipped it in the air and someone intercepted it and still ran it back? Too much happens in the course of a game that gets overlooked and everyone will point to a big play ot two as the reason a team won or lost.Maybe Manning did throw a wayward pass and made a poor decision. Even so, the rest of the game he was excellent. IMO, it's hard to pin a loss on one guy for one play (unless he pretty much did nothing else the rest of the game).

Montana played almost two season's worth of playoff games, and his #'s were spectacular. Sure he had some bad games- two season's worth against the very best competition- it's going to happen. But his #'s went up in the postseason- even higher than his already steller regular season #'s, while many other great's #'s significantly fall from the regular season to the playoffs. As for Manning, certainly one game or one play doesn't make or break him as being a great Qb. However, that drive was his chance to have that defining "Montana like" moment though- and he didn't come through.. I also don't think the rest of his game was that excellant either. He dinked and dunked and was off on most of his midrange/longer passes. He looked tenatitve and if he is the play caller as everyone always says he is when the going is good- he did a avg to poor job. He did have some pinpont slant passes and one nice long pass to Clark, but overall Manning did not rise to the occasion in this game.. Where that leaves him in the legacy scheme of things remains to be seen.. And, yes, in hindsight the good games and greatness get remembered.. but Manning hasn't had "the drive" or "the Catch" to define him- so I don't know that he will have the live forever highlight reel that Montana and others have.

 

[SuperJohn96]

Can't be the best QB in NFL history and throw a pick-six in the last 5 minutes of the Super Bowl while your team is down 7 and you are inside the opponent 50. Sorry. It just cannot happen. He is out of the conversation unless he does something amazing in the next few years.ps - I am a huge Manning fan. But you can't have him in the Montana conversation now.

Montana had 3 post season games with 2 INT and 2 playoff games with 3 INT. He had 3 playoff games with a passer rating in the 30s or 40s. He had 5 playoff games where he had more INT than TD. It's not like he walked on water. Yes, he was a god in the Super Bowl, but things did not go as well in the years when the Niners didn't make the Super Bowl. But no one remembers those games.People have short memories. They remember highlight real games but not the bad games, and 25 years from now people will remember Manning's better games more than his clunkers. And I would not classify his perofrmance yesterday as a clunker. I don't know if his receiver turned out when he was supposed to turn in, but if his receiver did the wrong thing is that Manning's fault? How about if Wayne tipped it in the air and someone intercepted it and still ran it back? Too much happens in the course of a game that gets overlooked and everyone will point to a big play ot two as the reason a team won or lost.Maybe Manning did throw a wayward pass and made a poor decision. Even so, the rest of the game he was excellent. IMO, it's hard to pin a loss on one guy for one play (unless he pretty much did nothing else the rest of the game).

Montana was 16-7 as a starter in the playoffs.He went 3-0 four times, and 0-1 four times...ETA: Peyton went 4-0 once, and 0-1 SIX times.

 

[culdeus]

I still think with Peyton the "trying to do to much" is the real problem. You can't be the head coach and the QB. It works great when you are up against Rex Grossman, but up against a team that will throw a billion looks at you it just can't work. His offense is too much predicated on running the same routes, the same formations, the same plays even week in and week out. He doesn't have enough time to prepare like a simple coach. This player/coach thing will have to stop if he is to win another super bowl prior to his retirement.

 

[David Yudkin]

Can't be the best QB in NFL history and throw a pick-six in the last 5 minutes of the Super Bowl while your team is down 7 and you are inside the opponent 50. Sorry. It just cannot happen. He is out of the conversation unless he does something amazing in the next few years.ps - I am a huge Manning fan. But you can't have him in the Montana conversation now.

Montana had 3 post season games with 2 INT and 2 playoff games with 3 INT. He had 3 playoff games with a passer rating in the 30s or 40s. He had 5 playoff games where he had more INT than TD. It's not like he walked on water. Yes, he was a god in the Super Bowl, but things did not go as well in the years when the Niners didn't make the Super Bowl. But no one remembers those games.People have short memories. They remember highlight real games but not the bad games, and 25 years from now people will remember Manning's better games more than his clunkers. And I would not classify his perofrmance yesterday as a clunker. I don't know if his receiver turned out when he was supposed to turn in, but if his receiver did the wrong thing is that Manning's fault? How about if Wayne tipped it in the air and someone intercepted it and still ran it back? Too much happens in the course of a game that gets overlooked and everyone will point to a big play ot two as the reason a team won or lost.Maybe Manning did throw a wayward pass and made a poor decision. Even so, the rest of the game he was excellent. IMO, it's hard to pin a loss on one guy for one play (unless he pretty much did nothing else the rest of the game).

Montana was 16-7 as a starter in the playoffs.He went 3-0 four times, and 0-1 four times...

My point was that even Montana had some pretty bad clunkers. No one will argue against him winning a lot of games and putting up big numbers overall.

 

[switz]

It would take a lot for Manning to pass Montana for all time greatness. Brady, on the other hand, has more yards, more TDs, a better completion percentage, a better winning percentage, a better playoff record, more Superbowl appearances, more Superbowl wins, and a better best year than Montana, through the same number of years.

Not sure I understand your argument. If you're trying to say it's easier to argue that Bray > Montana than it is to argue Manning > Montana, I think you need to check yourself into a mental hospital.Montana > Manning >>>> Brady - it's not really as close as you'd like it to be.

As I said, through the same point in their relative careers, Brady exceeds Montana in every meaningful measure. I don't put Brady ahead of Montana, but Brady and Manning are the only active QBs with the ability to pass Montana on the all time list, and despite Manning's better yardage totals and other career totals, Brady is closer to doing it.

I still disagree with your argument.

As a side note, My brother's been in and out of mental hospitals for years, and is currently homeless in California, so I don't really appreciate that kind of attack. I'm sorry for saying something bad about your favorite player.

I apologise for the way the comment came across. And I'm sorry about your brothers situation.

 

[SuperJohn96]

but things did not go as well in the years when the Niners didn't make the Super Bowl. But no one remembers those games.

No they don't. You know why they don't? Because those games weren't the Super Bowl.That's the beauty of sports. They often decide these arguments on the field in the biggest game, not some nerdy spreadsheet. One was decided last night.

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