The best QB in NFL history (1 Viewer)

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

Glad to see we're comparing stats to guys who played 30 years ago and using that as the final criteria.

 

[Godsbrother]

Glad to see we're comparing stats to guys who played 30 years ago and using that as the final criteria.

I agree. The rule changes in the past 30 years have favored QBs and WRs so much that it makes modern day players look much better than they are.

 

[bostonfred]

It would take a lot for Manning to pass Montana for all time greatness. Brady, on the other hand, has more yards, more TDs, a better completion percentage, a better winning percentage, a better playoff record, more Superbowl appearances, more Superbowl wins, and a better best year than Montana, through the same number of years.

Not sure I understand your argument. If you're trying to say it's easier to argue that Bray > Montana than it is to argue Manning > Montana, I think you need to check yourself into a mental hospital.Montana > Manning >>>> Brady - it's not really as close as you'd like it to be.

As I said, through the same point in their relative careers, Brady exceeds Montana in every meaningful measure. I don't put Brady ahead of Montana, but Brady and Manning are the only active QBs with the ability to pass Montana on the all time list, and despite Manning's better yardage totals and other career totals, Brady is closer to doing it.

I still disagree with your argument.

You've been making that case for a long time. It's not surprising that you still believe that Manning is better than Brady, since you have always argued that. But your case was hurt last night, once again, when Manning threw a game changing pick, once again. As I said, by every meaningful measure, Brady is on pace to exceed Montana's career numbers. That includes statistics like yards, touchdowns, and completion percentage, as well as victories, playoff winning percentage, playoff wins, Superbowl appearances and Superbowl wins. Manning's got some of those things - and a bigger lead in some areas - but Brady's ahead across the board. If Brady continues at his pace, his career will have been better in every way than Montana's. If Manning continues at his pace, you'll be able to say, Manning was much better in some ways, and not as good in others. I know you say that Superbowls are a team accomplishment, not an individual one. And that's a reasonable position. But the argument that Manning would have won more Superbowls with a better team really doesn't hold water when his only Superbowl win was because his defense stopped his opponents while he threw six picks in three games, and when his pick six decided the outcome of his other Superbowl appearance, and when his four INTs knocked the Colts out, or his three points of offensive performance in 2004, or his three straight chances against the Steelers, including the Polamalu INT, and Bettis fumbling the game back to them, and him taking repeated sacks then blaming his offensive line. And if you want to claim that the Superbowl loss wasn't all his fault, you have to admit that for the most part, the 2006 Superbowl run was in spite of Manning's performances, not because of them. The fact of the matter is that Manning has a long history of making big mistakes in the playoffs. He's an incredible quarterback with a big glaring flaw, and he missed his opportunity to overcome that flaw last night. That's not to say that there's no argument for Manning being better than Brady. I get it. We disagree, and we each are fans of the teams they play on, so it's doubtful either of us will change our minds. But while right thinking people can disagree on whether Manning has played as well as Brady, and at the end of his career, right thinking people will probably be debating whether he was as good as Montana, too, there's a very real chance that, at the end of his career, the debate about Brady vs. Montana will favor Brady clearly and in every way. There's very little chance of that being the case for Manning, and less of a chance after last night.

 

[Young 8]

Manning >>>> Brady - it's not really as close as you'd like it to be.

i didn't know the circus was in town

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

Glad to see we're comparing stats to guys who played 30 years ago and using that as the final criteria.

I agree. The rule changes in the past 30 years have favored QBs and WRs so much that it makes modern day players look much better than they are.

Montana also played in the plan B free agency era. I know it's fun to compare players between eras, but some people take it too far.

 

[fsufan]

IMO, overall QBs get too much credit/blame for winning or losing.

 

[shader]

I truly think there are alot of guys in their early 20's that post here about Montana, and really only use stats to debate the Montana/Manning debate.

I'm 32, and you'll never see me talk about guys that played in the 70's. Heck, I can barely remember the early Montana years.

But I remember Montana and the 49ers offense as being totally and completely unstoppable. They just flat out dissected teams.

Montana was at his BEST in the playoffs and especially the super bowl.

Manning is and always has been at his best in the regular season.

His one super bowl was won because the defense played great during the playoffs, and than he out-dueled Rex Grossman in the super bowl. A super bowl is a super bowl, but even in those playoffs Manning wasn't spectacular.

He's had numerous flame-outs over the years, and last night was just another example. He just about threw a pick 2 plays before the pick 6 he actually threw.

Then he got lucky he didn't throw another pick in the end zone and really bomb out with 2 int's in the 4th quarter.

You can't give Manning all the credit in the world when he wins, and then when he loses say it was a team loss.

The guy choked in the biggest situation imaginable. The situation every kid dreams of when they are little. Had a chance to go win the super bowl and threw the game away.

He's not at his best in big moments. This is an unassailable fact, not an opinion. Maybe he'll rebound and win 4 straight super bowls. But for now, he still is the greatest regular season QB of all time (aided by the rules, no doubt), and a very average post-season QB.

 

[Instinctive]

But Peyton Manning is 9-9 in the playoffs.....

I think this thread has an incorrect title...

 

[lynx4ben]

The Colts aren't even in the Super Bowl without Manning. He took a team that wasn't even that good and willed them to several victories all year.

In this thread I don't think this argument has any merit. When we are talking about whether manning is the greatest QB of all time what does this have to do with it?We could say the same thing about 3/4 QBs every year. If the saints don't have Brees they don't win the SB. If the Vikings don't have Favre they don't make it that far.It's impossible to compare how a team 'would have done' without so and so. This argument doesn't play into it. Why would anyone bother to go back through history and compare every team minus their starting QB and ask how they would have done. Let's examine the play on the field.We are comparing Manning to the best QBs of all time. Montana was a clutch QB when it counted most. If we are going to discount Favre for game winning picks, why give manning a pass? He made a terrible play call(?)/read/throw. It happened to cost his team the Super Bowl. I've seen Manning win a lot of amazing games from behind in the clutch. Unfortunately for him, we have now seen him lose one of the biggest games of his career.

 

[Instinctive]

The Colts aren't even in the Super Bowl without Manning. He took a team that wasn't even that good and willed them to several victories all year.

In this thread I don't think this argument has any merit. When we are talking about whether manning is the greatest QB of all time what does this have to do about it.We could say the same thing about 3/4 QBs every year. If the saints don't have brees they don't make it. If the Vikings don't have Favre they don't make it that far.

How can you say that? They almost did that exact thing last year...

 

[IHEARTFF]

Peyton Manning was the greatest QB of all time before last night's game, and he still is after the game. W-L record is not the determining factor of any player's greatness in a team sport, especially football.

 

[Steeler]

Peyton Manning was the greatest QB of all time before last night's game, and he still is after the game. W-L record is not the determining factor of any player's greatness in a team sport, especially football.

What criteria are you using to say he is the greatest?

 

[Ghost Rider]

The Colts aren't even in the Super Bowl without Manning. He took a team that wasn't even that good and willed them to several victories all year.

In this thread I don't think this argument has any merit. When we are talking about whether manning is the greatest QB of all time what does this have to do about it.We could say the same thing about 3/4 QBs every year. If the saints don't have brees they don't make it. If the Vikings don't have Favre they don't make it that far.

How can you say that? They almost did that exact thing last year...

Last year, they lost in the first round.

This year, they lost in the conference championship game.

Getting two rounds further in a four-round tournament is not almost the same thing.

Try again.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

The whole reason the Saints went for the onside kick was to keep the ball out of Manning's hands. That speaks for itself.

True but wasn't it interesting that the Colts were most effective yesterday when they were running the ball and that their undoing was an inteception thrown by Manning?Look, Peyton Manning is a great QB, one of the best, but his playoff record is mediocre and is a significant argument against him being the greatest ever.

Interesting that the run defense has been a weakness of the Saints all year long.. Or were you not watching?To not exploit that weakness would be pretty stupid on the part of the Colts.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

Manning beat Joe Flacco and Mark Sanchez but lost to Brees.

Brees beat Kurt Warner, Brett Favre, and Peyton Manning.

Also, was beating Rex Grossman in the Super Bowl with a 3TD/7INT ratio in the playoffs that year really that impressive?

This guy will wind up with the stats to make an argument, but he has a lot of work to do to catch Montana or even Elway on the GOAT list.

 

[Phurfur]

The Colts aren't even in the Super Bowl without Manning. He took a team that wasn't even that good and willed them to several victories all year.

In this thread I don't think this argument has any merit. When we are talking about whether manning is the greatest QB of all time what does this have to do with it?We could say the same thing about 3/4 QBs every year. If the saints don't have Brees they don't win the SB. If the Vikings don't have Favre they don't make it that far.It's impossible to compare how a team 'would have done' without so and so. This argument doesn't play into it. Why would anyone bother to go back through history and compare every team minus their starting QB and ask how they would have done. Let's examine the play on the field.We are comparing Manning to the best QBs of all time. Montana was a clutch QB when it counted most. If we are going to discount Favre for game winning picks, why give manning a pass? He made a terrible play call(?)/read/throw. It happened to cost his team the Super Bowl. I've seen Manning win a lot of amazing games from behind in the clutch. Unfortunately for him, we have now seen him lose one of the biggest games of his career.

Manning carried the Colts this year. Is that better?

 

[Carolina Hustler]

That's the bottom line on Peyton. He's the best regular season QB ever. But in the post-season, he's very average and usually makes big mistakes at inappropriate times.And don't tell me the int wasn't Peyton's fault. Just don't.

He can if his team would perennially be 7-9 team without him on it. The Colts ARE Peyton Manning.

You can't have it both ways - you cannot say Manning is the Colts when the team wins and then when they lose say it is a team game.

Point is, no one man is good enough to carry an entire season and a SB win. Once you get to the SB, you're dealing with what is supposed to be the "other best team". 1 guy shouldn't be expected to beat the top teams on his own. Even if he's the best player in the league...Manning is the best QB in the league, Manning is the Colts, Manning can't be blamed for everything that happens bad for the Colts if he doesn't have enough help. pretty weak argument there bud, but I see how you're trying to draw the conclusion.. Clever..

 

[kremenull]

Agree with the O.P. Simply can't ignore the fact that Manning doesn't fare well in big games. This is not a new phenomenon as I'm going to simply call it how I see it.

Dating back to his UT days, where he played on some very good teams and as a "proclaimed" great QB, he never could win the SEC let alone a national championship. And one thing that was well known amongst insiders was what Florida believed - when you unleash the 'dawgs' (Jevon Kearse and the boys) on Peyton Manning, i.e, apply serious pressure on him, he wilts under the pressure and the big moments. And throughout his NFL career, more often than not this has also been the case. When has he ever won a big game outside of the friendly confines of his home (dome) stadium? Yeah, once in the Super Bowl vs. Rex Grossman. But at least once, he simply should have willed his team to a playoff win in N.E. Given a fair amount of chances like Manning has had, John Elway would have. Montana would have.

There were moments in the Super Bowl where I saw the same things pop up that validate these points. Early on, I saw Manning bail on a couple of throws, where he is almost falling down on his throw in order to avoid the ensuing hit. And what this does is he subconsciously begins to alter his game due to his disdain for getting hit. Listen, no QB loves to take hits and get abused, but sometimes you simply have to stand in there strong and upright "under the gun" to deliver a well-timed, accurate throw in the heat of a big ball game in order to come up big in these moments. Witness the game-changing interception. From my perspective, this is all on Manning here. First, I'll give credit to the Saints (and DC Gregg Williams) for understanding Mannning's biggest weakness (can't stand pressure) and bringing the blitz there and also for playing off-man coverage, where the DB (Porter) can read the QB. But Peyton threw that ball a little too early, probably due to his disdain for taking a hit as he sensed there would be pressure as the blitz was indeed coming. If he holds that ball a bit longer, for one, his team had picked up the blitz fairly well on that play and he did have at least a split second more, but more importantly, Wayne would have had time to get out of his route and at least possibly cause an incompletion rather than an int. But throwing early can be just as deadly as throwing late, and esp when the DB is in off-coverage, thereby Porter read the QB's actions perfectly and jumped the route for the pick-6 while Wayne simply hadn't had the chance to get to the spot due to the early throw.

Bottom line for me here as well is that Manning tends to come up small in big games. It is what it is. There is no way anyone can say that the Colts weren't supposed to win this game as everything was setup for them to win the Super Bowl this year - homefield thorughout the playoffs, rest down the stretch, pretty weak AFC playoff opposition, you name it. Manning simply came up short and now there are several contemporaries who he hasn't separated himself from, Brees and Warner both have as many rings as Manning, Brady and Big Ben have more, so let's not even go there in mentioning Manning as the all-time greatest QB.

Regular season success is fine and dandy, but overall, Manning is not a player who I consider to be a "clutch performer", and that is where your legacy is built.

 

[lynx4ben]

The Colts aren't even in the Super Bowl without Manning. He took a team that wasn't even that good and willed them to several victories all year.

In this thread I don't think this argument has any merit. When we are talking about whether manning is the greatest QB of all time what does this have to do about it.We could say the same thing about 3/4 QBs every year. If the saints don't have brees they don't make it. If the Vikings don't have Favre they don't make it that far.

How can you say that? They almost did that exact thing last year...

Did you watch any Vikings games this year? 2008 was a down (pathetic) year for the NFC North. The Vikings were the best of the worst. They won the division and got knocked out immediately in the first round.

Thus, if you think not winning a single playoff game is almost getting there, i have the following advice for you: Stick to horse shoes almost counts there...

 

[bostonfred]

Manning carried the Colts this year. Is that better?

To what?

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Manning carried the Colts this year. Is that better?

To what?

To further than Brady did the Pats? To a SB appearance? To the best regular season record in '09'?Those are only the ones that stick out in my mind. I'm sure I can come up with a few more.

 

[Bull Dozier]

The whole reason the Saints went for the onside kick was to keep the ball out of Manning's hands. That speaks for itself.

True but wasn't it interesting that the Colts were most effective yesterday when they were running the ball and that their undoing was an inteception thrown by Manning?Look, Peyton Manning is a great QB, one of the best, but his playoff record is mediocre and is a significant argument against him being the greatest ever.

Interesting that the run defense has been a weakness of the Saints all year long.. Or were you not watching?To not exploit that weakness would be pretty stupid on the part of the Colts.

Doesn't Manning get all this credit for being the only QB that calls his own plays, or a large majority of them? Maybe he should have called some more runs.

 

[IHEARTFF]

Peyton Manning was the greatest QB of all time before last night's game, and he still is after the game. W-L record is not the determining factor of any player's greatness in a team sport, especially football.

What criteria are you using to say he is the greatest?

StatsPFR Greatest QB

PFR Adjusting W-L

 

[Carolina Hustler]

The whole reason the Saints went for the onside kick was to keep the ball out of Manning's hands. That speaks for itself.

True but wasn't it interesting that the Colts were most effective yesterday when they were running the ball and that their undoing was an inteception thrown by Manning?Look, Peyton Manning is a great QB, one of the best, but his playoff record is mediocre and is a significant argument against him being the greatest ever.

Interesting that the run defense has been a weakness of the Saints all year long.. Or were you not watching?To not exploit that weakness would be pretty stupid on the part of the Colts.

Doesn't Manning get all this credit for being the only QB that calls his own plays, or a large majority of them? Maybe he should have called some more runs.

IMO, the Colts played a good game all the way up to the 4th quarter. That one pick6 hadn't gone down that way and we'd be talking purely and solely about the on sides kick. In the 4th quarter with 4 mins left, it's not really a good time to run the ball... if you're 14 points down is it?

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

That's the bottom line on Peyton. He's the best regular season QB ever. But in the post-season, he's very average and usually makes big mistakes at inappropriate times.And don't tell me the int wasn't Peyton's fault. Just don't.

PManning has had 10 teams with 10 or mroe wins.He has 1 NFL Chapionship. In the rain. Vs. Rex Grossman and the 2006 Bears, if there's a mediocre Super Bowl victory besides Super Bowl V, that's it.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

That's the bottom line on Peyton. He's the best regular season QB ever. But in the post-season, he's very average and usually makes big mistakes at inappropriate times.And don't tell me the int wasn't Peyton's fault. Just don't.

PManning has had 10 teams with 10 or mroe wins.He has 1 NFL Chapionship. In the rain. Vs. Rex Grossman and the 2006 Bears, if there's a mediocre Super Bowl victory besides Super Bowl V, that's it.

I'm not sure what your point is....But I'd say a win against the Bears D in the rain isn't the easiest thing to accomplish from a QB's perspective.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

That's the bottom line on Peyton. He's the best regular season QB ever. But in the post-season, he's very average and usually makes big mistakes at inappropriate times.And don't tell me the int wasn't Peyton's fault. Just don't.

PManning has had 10 teams with 10 or more wins [edit].He has 1 NFL Chapionship. In the rain. Vs. Rex Grossman and the 2006 Bears, if there's a mediocre Super Bowl victory besides Super Bowl V, that's it.

I'm not sure what your point is....But I'd say a win against the Bears D in the rain isn't the easiest thing to accomplish from a QB's perspective.

My point is PManning has done the absolute least with great receivers, great lines, three terrific running backs, and defenses coached and built by Jim Mora and Tony Dungy.

 

[Driver]

That's the bottom line on Peyton. He's the best regular season QB ever. But in the post-season, he's very average and usually makes big mistakes at inappropriate times.

And don't tell me the int wasn't Peyton's fault. Just don't.

really.... W/L are result of a TEAM, not a QB.... Peyton is clearly one of the best ever, better than MOST multiple SB winning QBs.

Interesting, I decided to evaluate all of the QBs who have appeared as the primary QB in two or more SuperBowls:4-0 Bradshaw

4-0 Montana

3-0 Aikman

2-0 Starr

2-0 Plunkett

2-0 Roethlisberger

3-1 Brady

2-1 Griese

2-2 Staubach

1-1 Theismann

1-1 Favre

1-1 Peyton Manning

2-3 Elway

1-2 Warner

0-2 Morton

0-3 Tarkenton

0-3 Kelly

The QBs who won more than one SB were: Starr, Staubach, Griese, Bradshaw, Plunkett, Elway, Montana, Aikman, Brady, and Roethlisberger.

The QBs who won exactly one SB were: Namath, Unitas, Stabler, McMahon, Simms, Doug Williams, Hostetler, Rypien, Young, Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Eli Manning, and Drew Brees.

The QBs who lost exactly one SB were: Lamonica, Morrall, Kapp, Kilmer, Ferragamo, Jaworski, Anderson, Woodley, Marino, Grogan, Esiason, Frank Reich, Humphries, O'Donnell, Bledsoe, Chandler, McNair, Collins, Gannon, Delhomme, McNabb, Hasselbeck, and Grossman.

Of the 44 SBs to date, 31 have been won by QBs who participated as the primary QB in more than one SB. More than 50% (23 out of 44) SBs have been lost by QBs who participated as the primary QB in a single SB.

Of QBs who participated in more than one SB, the combined record is 31-21.

IMO the cream rises to the top, and the clutch performers bring their best game to the most important games -- and they find a way to win those games. In this regard, Peyton Manning is lacking as a top QB and clutch performer in the biggest games.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

0-3 Kelly

4th one didn't count for some reason?

 

[Carolina Hustler]

That's the bottom line on Peyton. He's the best regular season QB ever. But in the post-season, he's very average and usually makes big mistakes at inappropriate times.And don't tell me the int wasn't Peyton's fault. Just don't.

PManning has had 10 teams with 10 or more wins [edit].He has 1 NFL Chapionship. In the rain. Vs. Rex Grossman and the 2006 Bears, if there's a mediocre Super Bowl victory besides Super Bowl V, that's it.

I'm not sure what your point is....But I'd say a win against the Bears D in the rain isn't the easiest thing to accomplish from a QB's perspective.

My point is PManning has done the absolute least with great receivers, great lines, three terrific running backs, and defenses coached and built by Jim Mora and Tony Dungy.

The least? Manning's stats and w/l records alone are amassing. And I'm not sure where you'd classify his WR/RB's but I've never seen him as having the "best" in either of those categories.From my perspective, He's done alot. And Addai/Brown, Wayne/Collie/Garcon aren't exactly great...

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

And Addai/Brown, Wayne/Collie/Garcon aren't exactly great...

if you include Dallas Clark, that's 4 1st round picks at the skill positions. And Polian is one of the best talent evaluators in the league so it's not like the Colts roster is loaded with scrubs.

 

[gianmarco]

Manning beat Joe Flacco and Mark Sanchez but lost to Brees.Brees beat Kurt Warner, Brett Favre, and Peyton Manning.Also, was beating Rex Grossman in the Super Bowl with a 3TD/7INT ratio in the playoffs that year really that impressive?This guy will wind up with the stats to make an argument, but he has a lot of work to do to catch Montana or even Elway on the GOAT list.

 

[Steeler]

Peyton Manning was the greatest QB of all time before last night's game, and he still is after the game. W-L record is not the determining factor of any player's greatness in a team sport, especially football.

What criteria are you using to say he is the greatest?

StatsPFR Greatest QB

PFR Adjusting W-L

Great, so you are just echoing what someone else thinks... that's cool.I didn't read much of either thread, but i think I read enough to understand that the first link is only talking about the regular season? If so, nobody is really disputing Manning as a very good / great / whatever adjective you want to use regular season QB. Does the guy have a similar list for playoff performances?

The 2nd article seemed to make excuses for Manning having an "idiot kicker" but again, I didn't read too much of it.

 

[KingEl]

That's the bottom line on Peyton. He's the best regular season QB ever. But in the post-season, he's very average and usually makes big mistakes at inappropriate times.And don't tell me the int wasn't Peyton's fault. Just don't.

PManning has had 10 teams with 10 or more wins [edit].He has 1 NFL Chapionship. In the rain. Vs. Rex Grossman and the 2006 Bears, if there's a mediocre Super Bowl victory besides Super Bowl V, that's it.

I'm not sure what your point is....But I'd say a win against the Bears D in the rain isn't the easiest thing to accomplish from a QB's perspective.

My point is PManning has done the absolute least with great receivers, great lines, three terrific running backs, and defenses coached and built by Jim Mora and Tony Dungy.

The least? Manning's stats and w/l records alone are amassing. And I'm not sure where you'd classify his WR/RB's but I've never seen him as having the "best" in either of those categories.From my perspective, He's done alot. And Addai/Brown, Wayne/Collie/Garcon aren't exactly great...

hold on a second-- Marvin Harrison was surely one of the best WR's.. The guy was fanastic for many years.. As of right now, Manning has a very good collection of talent around him.. So what if he doesn't have a top 5 all time great WR to throw to right now. Wayne, Collie, Garcon, Clark and Addai out of the backfieild is an extremely talented group in a great system. You can't say Manning is just carrying his team with scrubs around him.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

And Addai/Brown, Wayne/Collie/Garcon aren't exactly great...

if you include Dallas Clark, that's 4 1st round picks at the skill positions. And Polian is one of the best talent evaluators in the league so it's not like the Colts roster is loaded with scrubs.

Everyone knows the earlier picks in a draft give you better odds, but don't promise anything... Plenty of examples of that... Some of the best players were drafted later in the draft. That's not a strong argument.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

And Addai/Brown, Wayne/Collie/Garcon aren't exactly great...

if you include Dallas Clark, that's 4 1st round picks at the skill positions. And Polian is one of the best talent evaluators in the league so it's not like the Colts roster is loaded with scrubs.

Everyone knows the earlier picks in a draft give you better odds, but don't promise anything... Plenty of examples of that... Some of the best players were drafted later in the draft. That's not a strong argument.

so you don't think that Reggie Wayne and Dallas Clark are among the league's elite at their positions?how many current NFL QBs have a top-5 WR and top-3 TE to throw to?

 

[Ron_Mexico]

That's the bottom line on Peyton. He's the best regular season QB ever. But in the post-season, he's very average and usually makes big mistakes at inappropriate times.And don't tell me the int wasn't Peyton's fault. Just don't.

I think most analysts have pointed out that Wayne quit on the route and the ball was thrown where he should be. So really it wasn't Peyton's fault. What WAS his fault is getting so pissed about Garcon's drop and then ignoring him for half of the game.

Most analyst are full of crap then. Manning telegraphed the play, Porter read it and jumped the route right in front of Wayne and Manning didn't have a whole lot on the pass. Great play on Porter's part, bad play on Manning's part.

Eh, I know Porter said he got that from watching tape on Manning and he probably did. But I don't think Wayne put forth the effort needed on the route. In fact, he seemed out it all game.

It was a horrible read by Manning, and he didn't even own it during the post game interview.He had no problem pointing out many other disapointments from other plays that hurt the Colts.But no mention about why on earth he would throw throw that weak ball with Porter breaking on the inside.

 

[Devine Intervention]

Manning beat Joe Flacco and Mark Sanchez but lost to Brees.Brees beat Kurt Warner, Brett Favre, and Peyton Manning.Also, was beating Rex Grossman in the Super Bowl with a 3TD/7INT ratio in the playoffs that year really that impressive?This guy will wind up with the stats to make an argument, but he has a lot of work to do to catch Montana or even Elway on the GOAT list.

Didnt the Almight Brady lose to Flacco????

 

[teamroc]

You can't be the greatest of all time when all your major passing stats drop in the playoffs. And no not everyone's drop in the playoffs.

Manning isn't a big game guy. Sorry he just isn't.

He's great. He's in anyone's top 10. He's probably in most people's top 5. He's not the greatest ever. Regular season sure. But in the playoffs he's had some huge stinkers.

Take all your money, family, friends, and gamble them on a SB game. You can pick any QB in his prime to lead your team. I'm sorry you're not picking Manning. You just aren't. In a single big game, in a SB game, your life at stake, you're not picking Manning. There's too many big game QBs, with way more rings, who will make it a lot easier to sleep the night before.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

Manning beat Joe Flacco and Mark Sanchez but lost to Brees.Brees beat Kurt Warner, Brett Favre, and Peyton Manning.Also, was beating Rex Grossman in the Super Bowl with a 3TD/7INT ratio in the playoffs that year really that impressive?This guy will wind up with the stats to make an argument, but he has a lot of work to do to catch Montana or even Elway on the GOAT list.

Didnt the Almight Brady lose to Flacco????

almighty? where did I mention Tom Brady in my post?but, regarding Brady, winning 3 rings and having a 14-4 postseason record probably means we can overlook that bad game a bit, no? Losing Welker the week before probably didn't help him much either.

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

Manning beat Joe Flacco and Mark Sanchez but lost to Brees.Brees beat Kurt Warner, Brett Favre, and Peyton Manning.Also, was beating Rex Grossman in the Super Bowl with a 3TD/7INT ratio in the playoffs that year really that impressive?This guy will wind up with the stats to make an argument, but he has a lot of work to do to catch Montana or even Elway on the GOAT list.

Didnt the Almight Brady lose to Flacco????

I think he lost to Jake Plummer too.

 

[IDrinkyourMilkshake]

IMO, overall QBs get too much credit/blame for winning or losing. It's a team game and if any number of players in any game played better the QB wouldn't be made to be the goat on a single play that ended up costing his team the game. Sure, there are games where a QB makes a boatloat of mistakes, turns the ball over all game long, and generally doesn't play well (see Brady vs. BAL this post season). But if Manning didn't have pinpoint accuracy yesterday the Colts could have lost by way more than they did. And Manning wasn't the one that let Brees complete 82% of his passes.

Manning didn't lose that game, the Saints played/coached an almost perfect game to win it.

He didn't take it over and win it, either. You aren't necessarily to blame for a loss if you don't rise up and take the Super Bowl over on the strength of your own talent and leadership. But you aren't the GOAT, either. Montana comes through there. Brady comes through there. Warner comes through there. Manning didn't. Again.

You had me until you got to Warner...

Had me until Brady. Colts needed more than a FG.

Super Bowl 42 - Brady has an 80 yard drive resulting in a TD to put the Pats up by 4 with 2:42 left. Too bad their D crumbled.

 

[Football Critic]

It would take a lot for Manning to pass Montana for all time greatness. Brady, on the other hand, has more yards, more TDs, a better completion percentage, a better winning percentage, a better playoff record, more Superbowl appearances, more Superbowl wins, and a better best year than Montana, through the same number of years.

Not sure I understand your argument. If you're trying to say it's easier to argue that Bray > Montana than it is to argue Manning > Montana, I think you need to check yourself into a mental hospital.Montana > Manning >>>> Brady - it's not really as close as you'd like it to be.

Is everything considered an "argument" with you?Its about discussion, but you seem to be here on FBG to oppose people, instead of discuss you point with facts or reason.And I just joined a week ago and this is what I notice.

 

[bostonfred]

Manning carried the Colts this year. Is that better?

To what?

To further than Brady did the Pats? To a SB appearance? To the best regular season record in '09'?Those are only the ones that stick out in my mind. I'm sure I can come up with a few more.

Completely Manning carried his team further than Brady did the Pats this year. If we're talking about who had a better year, I think most people would agree that Manning had a better year even though he didn't win the Superbowl. But if you're using the fact that Manning carried the Colts further than Brady carried the Pats, then don't be surprised when I point out that Brady's carried the Pats further in the course of a shorter career than Manning has carried the Colts.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

And Addai/Brown, Wayne/Collie/Garcon aren't exactly great...

if you include Dallas Clark, that's 4 1st round picks at the skill positions. And Polian is one of the best talent evaluators in the league so it's not like the Colts roster is loaded with scrubs.

Everyone knows the earlier picks in a draft give you better odds, but don't promise anything... Plenty of examples of that... Some of the best players were drafted later in the draft. That's not a strong argument.

so you don't think that Reggie Wayne and Dallas Clark are among the league's elite at their positions?how many current NFL QBs have a top-5 WR and top-3 TE to throw to?

Elite QB's typically have at least 2 top receiving options that can be attributed to the amount of passes they throw and/or receiving ability. And no, I don't consider Wayne an elite nfl WR. Great for FF but I'd rank many in front of him as far as real nfl receivers go...

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

And no, I don't consider Wayne an elite nfl WR. Great for FF but I'd rank many in front of him as far as real nfl receivers go...

I understand what you are saying b/c I felt the same way about Marvin Harrison for many years despite his production.Can you post a list of current NFL WRs that you think are clearly better than Reggie Wayne though? I'd like to see it.

 

[Carver]

Had me until Brady. Colts needed more than a FG.

Super Bowl 42 - Brady has an 80 yard drive resulting in a TD to put the Pats up by 4 with 2:42 left. Too bad their D crumbled.

And that was after taking a BEATING the entire game with pressure in his face the whole way down the field.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Manning carried the Colts this year. Is that better?

To what?

To further than Brady did the Pats? To a SB appearance? To the best regular season record in '09'?Those are only the ones that stick out in my mind. I'm sure I can come up with a few more.

Completely Manning carried his team further than Brady did the Pats this year. If we're talking about who had a better year, I think most people would agree that Manning had a better year even though he didn't win the Superbowl. But if you're using the fact that Manning carried the Colts further than Brady carried the Pats, then don't be surprised when I point out that Brady's carried the Pats further in the course of a shorter career than Manning has carried the Colts.

That would assume that Brady wasn't handed a great situation and was under a great coaching staff, and.,.and....and..The Pats were winning before Brady started throwing the ball. And I'd say Brady has less to do with the Pats winning percentage then Manning for the colts..... A lot less..

 

[IHEARTFF]

Peyton Manning was the greatest QB of all time before last night's game, and he still is after the game. W-L record is not the determining factor of any player's greatness in a team sport, especially football.

What criteria are you using to say he is the greatest?

StatsPFR Greatest QB

PFR Adjusting W-L

Great, so you are just echoing what someone else thinks... that's cool.I didn't read much of either thread, but i think I read enough to understand that the first link is only talking about the regular season? If so, nobody is really disputing Manning as a very good / great / whatever adjective you want to use regular season QB. Does the guy have a similar list for playoff performances?

The 2nd article seemed to make excuses for Manning having an "idiot kicker" but again, I didn't read too much of it.

So for those of you who don't use statistics, what do you use to determine who is better?

 

[Carolina Hustler]

And no, I don't consider Wayne an elite nfl WR. Great for FF but I'd rank many in front of him as far as real nfl receivers go...

I understand what you are saying b/c I felt the same way about Marvin Harrison for many years despite his production.Can you post a list of current NFL WRs that you think are clearly better than Reggie Wayne though? I'd like to see it.

Maybe. Will you first publish the list where you rank Wayne in the top 5.