The best QB in NFL history (1 Viewer)

[Carver]

Staubach in 10 games . . .130 completions231 attempts56.3% completion percentage6.6 y/a15 TDs12 INTs

Keep'em coming Dave...

 

[KingEl]

This isn't basketball, where there's only 5 guys on the floor and the team with the really, really, really good guy wins. Football is still a team game, and a QB has no control over how good or bad his defense is. The Colts defense played poorly yesterday. Yes, Manning made a very ill advised throw. Did he do anything wrong before that?BTW, if Joe Montana was the best ever, how come the team didn't miss a beat when he was replaced?

Didn't miss a beat?!! lol. uh, as great as Young was- 49ers won 1 super bowl under him. and don't forget he stepped into a dominant team that Montana had just led to two straight Super Bowls and was leading the NFC championship to go for a three peat when he was knocked out as they were driving to run the clock out and Young/Craig botched a handoff leading to NY winning.. Young steps into a team firing on all cylinders with Rice in his prime, and is able to win 1 Super Bowl with a team that Montana was able to beat playing on an avg at best KC team. Montana won 2 Super Bowls with half that talent and a developing system. Young was a fantastic QB by all measures, it shouldn't take anything away from Montana that he happened to be followed by a Top 10 all time QB. So, okay Young steps in and has fantastic success in the regular season. His rating is 96+ slightly better than Montana.. Young gets into the playoffs-- 20 games-- with this dominant cast and his rating falls eleven points to 85.8! Take away his ridiculously good 6td Superbolw and he goes 14tds, 13ints in the playoffs.... Why does his rating and play fall so much?in contrast, Montana's similarly fantastic regular season play-- partly with lesser talent-- Montana ges into the playoffs.HIS numbers go UP!!!! 10 pts higher than Young.. 23 playoff games 45TD!!!! against 21 Ints-- that's sick #'s.. To be fair take away his incredible 5tds Super Bowl like I did Young--- that leaves Montana at oh 40TD!! 21 ints!! Compare that to the 14td's, 13ints Young throws !! There is no comparison... What is my point? Young was great in regular season.. on the team that Montana helped build that was firing on all cylindars and even better talent. Young had fantastic seasons. But when the pressure ratched up, the competition ratcheted up- his play faltered while Montana excelled... and this type of fall off in #'s is seen with Marino, Manning, etc.. That's what sets Montana apart.. He had losses in the playoffs.. he played almost a season and a half of playoff/superbowls against hte very best competition- of course he had some off game,,, but no one had the constant success and excellerated play in that many playoff games as Montana.. not to mention his flair for memorable moments... a flair that Manning failed at last night.You can argue Montana is not the Goat, you can not be a fan of his, but anyone that actually thinks he was just an avg or good QB who got lucky, or was just good from a system, has no credibility and certainly doens't know Montana's career from high school. to college, to nfl living legend.

 

[IHEARTFF]

Peyton Manning in 18 career playoff games

435 completions

692 attempts

62.8% completion percentage

5164 yards

7.46 y/a

28 TDs

19 INTs

 

[IHEARTFF]

Joe Montana in 23 career playoff games

460 completions

734 attempts

62.6% completion percentage

5772 yards

7.86 y/a

45 TDs

21 INTs

 

[IHEARTFF]

Dan Marino in 18 career playoff games

385 completions

687 attempts

56.0% completion percentage

4510 yards

6.56 y/a

32 TDs

24 INTs

 

[David Yudkin]

I was only listing championship and SB appearances not first round or divisional round games . ..

 

[IHEARTFF]

I know, I'm just giving an additional perspective.

 

[IHEARTFF]

John Elway in 22 career playoff games

355 completions

651 attempts

54.5% completion percentage

4964 yards

7.63 y/a

27 TDs

21 INTs

 

[IHEARTFF]

Tom Brady in 18 career playoff games

395 completions

637 attempts

62.0% completion percentage

4108 yards

6.45 y/a

28 TDs

15 INTs

 

[IHEARTFF]

Brett Favre in 24 career playoff games

481 completions

791 attempts

60.8% completion percentage

5855 yards

7.4 y/a

44 TDs

30 INTs

 

[David Yudkin]

McNabb in 6 games . . .

129 completions

225 attempts

57.3% completion percentage

6.3 y/a

9 TDs

9 INTs

 

[David Yudkin]

Marino in 4 games:

92 completions

175 attempts

52.6% completion rate

7.17 y/a

8 TDs

7 INTs

 

[DoubleG]

I was only listing championship and SB appearances not first round or divisional round games . ..

Just curious as to why you chose that cutoff instead of the natural "post season" break point.

 

[David Yudkin]

Big Ben in 5 games:

81

137

59.1% completion percentage

8.28 y/a

6 TDs

6 INTs

 

[David Yudkin]

I was only listing championship and SB appearances not first round or divisional round games . ..

Just curious as to why you chose that cutoff instead of the natural "post season" break point.

Because someone posted numbers for Manning in big games (championship games and Super Bowl games). Wild card and divisional playoff rounds could inflate stats if a QB crushed an inferior foe earlier.

 

[Ghost Rider]

I was only listing championship and SB appearances not first round or divisional round games . ..

Just curious as to why you chose that cutoff instead of the natural "post season" break point.

Because someone posted numbers for Manning in big games (championship games and Super Bowl games). Wild card and divisional playoff rounds could inflate stats if a QB crushed an inferior foe earlier.

So playoff games in the first and second rounds are not "big" games? Since you are a NE fan, why do I get the feeling that you did it this way so Manning's big three playoff games vs. Denver (twice) and KC would not be included in this, so he wouldn't look as good when comparing?

 

[David Yudkin]

I was only listing championship and SB appearances not first round or divisional round games . ..

Just curious as to why you chose that cutoff instead of the natural "post season" break point.

Because someone posted numbers for Manning in big games (championship games and Super Bowl games). Wild card and divisional playoff rounds could inflate stats if a QB crushed an inferior foe earlier.

So playoff games in the first and second rounds are not "big" games? Since you are a NE fan, why do I get the feeling that you did it this way so Manning's big three playoff games vs. Denver (twice) and KC would not be included in this, so he wouldn't look as good when comparing?

I have no horse in this race. Someone else posted the numbers for Manning, so I added the numbers for other guys as a comparison.

 

[phthalatemagic]

That's one hell of a lazy argument.

of course it is. but, it's also true.

Ohh OK.My dog like to eat her own poop.Therefore, Manning is the greatest QB of all time.TA DA

sorry. can you provide a link to any substantive argument you've made in here or elsewhere about Peyton being the best of all time? I'd be happy to engage you in that discussion if you like.that was far from my only post on the subject so not sure why you felt the need to get hung up on it.thanks for this great contribution to the thread though.

I wouldn't provide one, because I don't believe it. I didn't see any posts of yours that had any sort of meaning either. I didn't realize staffers were the only people that had license to not contribute to threads, I guess.

 

[David Yudkin]

Aikman in 7 games:

145

218

66.5% completion percentage

8.36 y/a

TDs 13

INTs 4

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

I wouldn't provide one, because I don't believe it. I didn't see any posts of yours that had any sort of meaning either. I didn't realize staffers were the only people that had license to not contribute to threads, I guess.

thanks for your insightful commentary, as always.

 

[menobrown]

I pretty much agree wholeheartedly with the original poster.

Peyton is a great QB and I think as the original poster said he might very well be the best regular season QB of all time. But we are talking about being the best QB in the history of the game so it becomes necessary to nitpick. I think Peyton is way better under pressure than he used to be but the bottom line is he's had way to many playoff dud's to be considered the greatest of all time. A lot of people say it was the defense's fault in a lot of games or that it's simply not the QB's fault. Early in his career most of the elimination games the defense stepped up and Peyton would have his worst or one of this worst games of the year. I do think he's better than that now. You can even see it in his feet which he does not move nearly as much as he used to. I certainly don't blame him for yesterday's loss but when talking about the being the BEST QB of ALL-Time you can't ignore these things and bringing them up should not be considered slamming him.

 

[DropKick]

I pretty much agree wholeheartedly with the original poster.Peyton is a great QB and I think as the original poster said he might very well be the best regular season QB of all time. But we are talking about being the best QB in the history of the game so it becomes necessary to nitpick. I think Peyton is way better under pressure than he used to be but the bottom line is he's had way to many playoff dud's to be considered the greatest of all time. A lot of people say it was the defense's fault in a lot of games or that it's simply not the QB's fault. Early in his career most of the elimination games the defense stepped up and Peyton would have his worst or one of this worst games of the year. I do think he's better than that now. You can even see it in his feet which he does not move nearly as much as he used to. I certainly don't blame him for yesterday's loss but when talking about the being the BEST QB of ALL-Time you can't ignore these things and bringing them up should not be considered slamming him.

Agreed.He is a great QB. There have been other great QBs. Manning is 9-9 in the play-offs. Just the one SB win.All the talk about him being the GOAT is just a lot of what have you done for me lately and short memories.Pretty funny though - all the talk about him having chopped liver coaching and talent around him.

 

[phthalatemagic]

I wouldn't provide one, because I don't believe it. I didn't see any posts of yours that had any sort of meaning either. I didn't realize staffers were the only people that had license to not contribute to threads, I guess.

thanks for your insightful commentary, as always.

And thank you for your contributions. I'm sure you are considered a big reason FBGs was the #11 FF site in 2009.

 

[PizzaDeliveryGuy]

I wouldn't provide one, because I don't believe it. I didn't see any posts of yours that had any sort of meaning either. I didn't realize staffers were the only people that had license to not contribute to threads, I guess.

thanks for your insightful commentary, as always.

And thank you for your contributions. I'm sure you are considered a big reason FBGs was the #11 FF site in 2009.

Link?

 

[shader]

This isn't basketball, where there's only 5 guys on the floor and the team with the really, really, really good guy wins. Football is still a team game, and a QB has no control over how good or bad his defense is. The Colts defense played poorly yesterday. Yes, Manning made a very ill advised throw. Did he do anything wrong before that?BTW, if Joe Montana was the best ever, how come the team didn't miss a beat when he was replaced?

Probably because it was Steve Young who replaced him.If Steve Young played for the Colts right now, I'm sure they'd still be pretty dang good.

 

[Carver]

This isn't basketball, where there's only 5 guys on the floor and the team with the really, really, really good guy wins. Football is still a team game, and a QB has no control over how good or bad his defense is. The Colts defense played poorly yesterday. Yes, Manning made a very ill advised throw. Did he do anything wrong before that?

BTW, if Joe Montana was the best ever, how come the team didn't miss a beat when he was replaced?

Probably because it was Steve Young who replaced him.If Steve Young played for the Colts right now, I'm sure they'd still be pretty dang good better in the playoffs.

 

[wiscstlatlmia]

i realize this is a basketball reference but...wilt chamberlain was a better player than bill russell and who had all the rings in that relationship

 

[IHEARTFF]

Colts team defensive ranks last 12 years

Yr Yards Pts

98 - 29 29

99 - 15 17

00 - 21 15

01 - 29 31

02 - 8 7

03 - 11 20

04 - 29 19

05 - 11 2

06 - 21 23

07 - 3 1

08 - 11 7

09 - 17 2

In contrast, last 12 Super Bowl Champion team defensive ranks

98 - 11 8

99 - 6 4

00 - 2 1

01 - 24 6

02 - 1 1

03 - 7 1

04 - 9 2

05 - 4 3

06 - 21 23

07 - 7 17

08 - 1 1

09 - 25 20

The Colts in 06 and the 09 Saints were the only 2 winners that weren't top 10 in at least 1 of the 2 defensive categories. Although, when healthy in the playoffs, the Saints allowed 14, 28, and 17 points to the 11, 2, and 7th ranked scoring offenses.

 

[KingEl]

i realize this is a basketball reference but...wilt chamberlain was a better player than bill russell and who had all the rings in that relationship

u mean Chamberlain was a better SCORER than Russel, right?! Cause there are plenty of arguement pro/con for the better players claim- but thats for another forum, another day.and in terms of our discussion. we're putting Manning against guys with plenty of gaudy stats too, not just rings.

 

[Carver]

i realize this is a basketball reference but...wilt chamberlain was a better player than bill russell and who had all the rings in that relationship

u mean Chamberlain was a better SCORER than Russel, right?! Cause there are plenty of arguement pro/con for the better players claim- but thats for another forum, another day.and in terms of our discussion. we're putting Manning against guys with plenty of gaudy stats too, not just rings.

Beat me to it. Russell was a beast dipped in hot sauce on the defensive side of the floor.

 

[IHEARTFF]

Manning's playoff records:

Most 300+ yard passing games: 8

Most 400+ yard passing games: 2 (tied with Dan Marino)

Most yards passing, 1st half of game: 360 vs. Denver Broncos, 1/9/05

Led the biggest comeback in conference championship game history (18 points 1/21/07 vs New England)

One of only four QBs to post a perfect 158.3 rating in a game (Don Meredith, Terry Bradshaw, Dave Krieg)

Most games with 30+ completions: 4

 

[Godsbrother]

Deleted my post.

Why? You cant blame that on anyone on the offense.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_EQTMUYzdo

Porter KILLED that pass play. Not Manning or Wayne.

Manning should never have thrown that ball. Great play by Porter reading and jumping it... But that was a horrible decision by Manning. Just awful. Look at how open Collie was. the heat was coming and Manning let it fly.

Wayne had his guy 1 on 1.. That should have been Waynes ball.. But he didn't fight for it.That wasn't Manning's fault

Watch the play again -- Manning stares Wayne down and telegraphs the play. Porter reads it, jumps the route and runs for the TD. Manning is a great QB, one of the greatest ever, but he blew it on that play ( it was also a heckuva play by Porter).

 

[Godsbrother]

Manning's playoff records:Most 300+ yard passing games: 8Most 400+ yard passing games: 2 (tied with Dan Marino)Most yards passing, 1st half of game: 360 vs. Denver Broncos, 1/9/05 Led the biggest comeback in conference championship game history (18 points 1/21/07 vs New England)One of only four QBs to post a perfect 158.3 rating in a game (Don Meredith, Terry Bradshaw, Dave Krieg)Most games with 30+ completions: 4

Stats are great but they don't hand out Lombardis for stats.

 

[IHEARTFF]

San Fran's team defensive ranks during Montana SB winning years

Yr Yards Points

81 - 2 2

84 - 10 1

88 - 3 8

89 - 4 3

I wonder if that helps a QB to know he has an elite defense to help him out.

 

[IHEARTFF]

Manning's playoff records:Most 300+ yard passing games: 8Most 400+ yard passing games: 2 (tied with Dan Marino)Most yards passing, 1st half of game: 360 vs. Denver Broncos, 1/9/05 Led the biggest comeback in conference championship game history (18 points 1/21/07 vs New England)One of only four QBs to post a perfect 158.3 rating in a game (Don Meredith, Terry Bradshaw, Dave Krieg)Most games with 30+ completions: 4

Stats are great but they don't hand out Lombardis for stats.

They also don't hand them out to individual players, either.

 

[DropKick]

Manning's playoff records:Most 300+ yard passing games: 8Most 400+ yard passing games: 2 (tied with Dan Marino)Most yards passing, 1st half of game: 360 vs. Denver Broncos, 1/9/05 Led the biggest comeback in conference championship game history (18 points 1/21/07 vs New England)One of only four QBs to post a perfect 158.3 rating in a game (Don Meredith, Terry Bradshaw, Dave Krieg)Most games with 30+ completions: 4

Stats are great but they don't hand out Lombardis for stats.

They also don't hand them out to individual players, either.

Throwing for lots of yardage (in an age of expanded play-offs where the rules promote passing) doesn't make you the greatest. At the end of the day, it's wins and losses that count. Still 9-9...Today, he is the goat, just not the GOAT.

 

[KingEl]

San Fran's team defensive ranks during Montana SB winning yearsYr Yards Points81 - 2 284 - 10 188 - 3 8 89 - 4 3 I wonder if that helps a QB to know he has an elite defense to help him out.

I wonder if having one of the most efficent, deadly QB's ever putting tremondous pressure on the opposing teams offense to try and keep up helps make his defense elite.,, two sides to everything and neither takes away from the other.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

Colts team defensive ranks last 12 yearsYr Yards Pts98 - 29 2999 - 15 1700 - 21 1501 - 29 3102 - 8 703 - 11 2004 - 29 1905 - 11 206 - 21 2307 - 3 108 - 11 7 09 - 17 2

Looks like the Colts had a top-7 defense (in pts/allowed) the last 3 years and in 5 of the past 8. Not too shabby.

 

[ookook]

Two points to make.

1. I am not sure that Manning chokes in pressure games,as much as I think he performs poorly against pressure defenses. Yes, this hurts his GOAT argument. His offense is very predictable in how it responds to the defense as presented at the snap. It is not that hard to obfuscate some coverages and to bait him since given a certain blitz you pretty much know where he is going. When I think about when the Pats have taken him apart it was always with creative defensive schemes.

2. The responsibility for the INT has to be shared between Manning and Wayne. Manning shouldn't have telegraphed or thrown the ball where it was expected. Wayne missed the blitz or the hot read. He simply did not make an early step to break inside when it was clearly a blitz.

 

[CanadianNFLJunkie]

A big problem that I have when people state their case about greatness in football players, this isn't a sport like basketball or hockey or other sports where these athletes play offense and defense. I've seen a lot of HOF QB's play and I have to put Manning ahead of Montana, Favre, Marino, Young, Elway, Unitas, etc....etc. Sure Manning threw a pick yesterday that resulted in a TD that led to New Orleans winning the Super Bowl, but how can we put all the blame on Manning on that? How do we know that the receiver didn't curl properly on the route? Manning is #1 for sure in my book.

Have you watched Manning in all his playoff games? I can't call him the greatest ever because I have seen him make far to many mistakes in crucial games and crucial moments in the most important games. This year was the first year he has played like he could be the greatest QB of all time in multiple playoff games and then he throws multiple balls into defenders hands on his last two drives while losing. There is no doubt that other QB's get lucky on their way to a Championship Ring but I have watched players like Troy Aikman and Joe Montana play at the top of their games for more than one playoff run. Manning has had plenty of chances to do so and this year is the first year he came close to doing it.

Chances are if I've seen Unitas play, I've seen Manning and all of his playoff games. What do you want the guy to do, walk on water for you? Your comment about the most important games, wouldn't that be like the very next game of any player playing? Come on now.

 

[Eminence]

Forgive me if I am wrong. But I believe the only stats that matter in post-season play are W's and L's.

 

[Cassius]

The Colts aren't even in the Super Bowl without Manning. He took a team that wasn't even that good and willed them to several victories all year.

True, but this can be said of several (most?) Super Bowl teams - nobody is saying Manning doesn't make the Colts a contender, the thread is about having him in the discussion as the best ever.

The whole reason the Saints went for the onside kick was to keep the ball out of Manning's hands. That speaks for itself.

Again, it speaks to plenty, but it doesn't make Manning in the discussion for best QB all-time.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Deleted my post.

Why? You cant blame that on anyone on the offense.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_EQTMUYzdo

Porter KILLED that pass play. Not Manning or Wayne.

Manning should never have thrown that ball. Great play by Porter reading and jumping it... But that was a horrible decision by Manning. Just awful. Look at how open Collie was. the heat was coming and Manning let it fly.

Wayne had his guy 1 on 1.. That should have been Waynes ball.. But he didn't fight for it.That wasn't Manning's fault

Watch the play again -- Manning stares Wayne down and telegraphs the play. Porter reads it, jumps the route and runs for the TD. Manning is a great QB, one of the greatest ever, but he blew it on that play ( it was also a heckuva play by Porter).

I've watched it several times. I disagree, Wayne was his first read. Throwing to your first read isn't telegraphing the play.. A QB looks up, his first read is open on a fast developing play, he throws it.. What was he supposed to do, check all his other WRs first? Wayne is at fault, he did nothing to guarantee himself the ball. 1 on 1, a #1 WR should be able to win the battle. Especially when the ball is withing arms reach. And if he would have made a move to the ball, it would have hit him right in the chest, easy catch.QB's are supposed to be able to count on their #1 WR's in 1 on 1 coverage.

If it were me, my first read, to my #1 WR, and he's got his guy in 1 on 1, I throw it to him.. But for some reason you disagree... :shakes head: hmm

 

[Carolina Hustler]

San Fran's team defensive ranks during Montana SB winning yearsYr Yards Points81 - 2 284 - 10 188 - 3 8 89 - 4 3 I wonder if that helps a QB to know he has an elite defense to help him out.

I wonder if having one of the most efficent, deadly QB's ever putting tremondous pressure on the opposing teams offense to try and keep up helps make his defense elite.,, two sides to everything and neither takes away from the other.

LOL, no... You guys are to much..Typically When you have 1 team scoring a lot of points, the other team is doing as much as possible to catch up.. Low scoring, clock killing games help defenses. Not High scoring offenses. There were actually stats to prove this somewhere, I'll look for them...

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Forgive me if I am wrong. But I believe the only stats that matter in post-season play are W's and L's.

For teams... Not for individuals. And that argument can be made for every game. Not just playoff games. So if you had it your way, we'd just stop keeping stats all together since they don't matter...

 

[KingEl]

San Fran's team defensive ranks during Montana SB winning yearsYr Yards Points81 - 2 284 - 10 188 - 3 8 89 - 4 3 I wonder if that helps a QB to know he has an elite defense to help him out.

I wonder if having one of the most efficent, deadly QB's ever putting tremondous pressure on the opposing teams offense to try and keep up helps make his defense elite.,, two sides to everything and neither takes away from the other.

LOL, no... You guys are to much..Typically When you have 1 team scoring a lot of points, the other team is doing as much as possible to keep up.. Low scoring, clock killing games help defenses. Not High scoring offenses. There were actually stats to prove this somewhere, I'll look for them...

While your at it, check the stats for the patriots def a few year ago when Brady and the offense was dominating. The other team trying to catch up leads to one dimensional play, sacks, and turnovers.. I had the Patriots def that year.. they weren't a dominant quality def- but they feasted on those opposing offenses trying to catch up. Benefited the Saints this year too.

 

[Steeler]

Manning's playoff records:Most 300+ yard passing games: 8Most 400+ yard passing games: 2 (tied with Dan Marino)Most yards passing, 1st half of game: 360 vs. Denver Broncos, 1/9/05 Led the biggest comeback in conference championship game history (18 points 1/21/07 vs New England)One of only four QBs to post a perfect 158.3 rating in a game (Don Meredith, Terry Bradshaw, Dave Krieg)Most games with 30+ completions: 4

Stats are great but they don't hand out Lombardis for stats.

They also don't hand them out to individual players, either.

Are you Cooper?

 

[culdeus]

Deleted my post.

Why? You cant blame that on anyone on the offense.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_EQTMUYzdo

Porter KILLED that pass play. Not Manning or Wayne.

Manning should never have thrown that ball. Great play by Porter reading and jumping it... But that was a horrible decision by Manning. Just awful. Look at how open Collie was. the heat was coming and Manning let it fly.

Wayne had his guy 1 on 1.. That should have been Waynes ball.. But he didn't fight for it.That wasn't Manning's fault

Watch the play again -- Manning stares Wayne down and telegraphs the play. Porter reads it, jumps the route and runs for the TD. Manning is a great QB, one of the greatest ever, but he blew it on that play ( it was also a heckuva play by Porter).

It was also the same play ran just two plays ago with a slight formation shift. Manning thinks he is playing Madden sometimes with his money plays down the stretch.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

San Fran's team defensive ranks during Montana SB winning yearsYr Yards Points81 - 2 284 - 10 188 - 3 8 89 - 4 3 I wonder if that helps a QB to know he has an elite defense to help him out.

I wonder if having one of the most efficent, deadly QB's ever putting tremondous pressure on the opposing teams offense to try and keep up helps make his defense elite.,, two sides to everything and neither takes away from the other.

LOL, no... You guys are to much..Typically When you have 1 team scoring a lot of points, the other team is doing as much as possible to keep up.. Low scoring, clock killing games help defenses. Not High scoring offenses. There were actually stats to prove this somewhere, I'll look for them...

While your at it, check the stats for the patriots def a few year ago when Brady and the offense was dominating. The other team trying to catch up leads to one dimensional play, sacks, and turnovers.. I had the Patriots def that year.. they weren't a dominant quality def- but they feasted on those opposing offenses trying to catch up. Benefited the Saints this year too.

That is only 1 dimension of defensive play. That doesn't tell defensive rank, or describe the final score... But for FF purposes.. lol.. I'm sure it helped you.. now go back and remember that your FF score and real NFL are 2 different things all together..And if you want something looked up, do the work yourself... don't make a baseless claim unless you're willing to back it up. You speculate that teams that get scored against have bad offenses.... or do poorly against the other teams def. Thats just patently untrue...

 

[shader]

Deleted my post.

Why? You cant blame that on anyone on the offense.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_EQTMUYzdo

Porter KILLED that pass play. Not Manning or Wayne.

Manning should never have thrown that ball. Great play by Porter reading and jumping it... But that was a horrible decision by Manning. Just awful. Look at how open Collie was. the heat was coming and Manning let it fly.

Wayne had his guy 1 on 1.. That should have been Waynes ball.. But he didn't fight for it.That wasn't Manning's fault

Watch the play again -- Manning stares Wayne down and telegraphs the play. Porter reads it, jumps the route and runs for the TD. Manning is a great QB, one of the greatest ever, but he blew it on that play ( it was also a heckuva play by Porter).

I've watched it several times. I disagree, Wayne was his first read. Throwing to your first read isn't telegraphing the play.. A QB looks up, his first read is open on a fast developing play, he throws it.. What was he supposed to do, check all his other WRs first? Wayne is at fault, he did nothing to guarantee himself the ball. 1 on 1, a #1 WR should be able to win the battle. Especially when the ball is withing arms reach. And if he would have made a move to the ball, it would have hit him right in the chest, easy catch.QB's are supposed to be able to count on their #1 WR's in 1 on 1 coverage.

If it were me, my first read, to my #1 WR, and he's got his guy in 1 on 1, I throw it to him.. But for some reason you disagree... :shakes head: hmm

It wasn't Wayne's fault. It was a hot-read. The Colts run this play all the time. Porter gambled and jumped the route.Manning is at fault, but primarily it was just a great play. There is no way Wayne could have got to the ball. Porter was a good 2 yards in front of him when he caught it.