The Camping Thread (1 Viewer)

[Koya]

I am specifically looking for info on campgrounds (tent camping / car camping) in the Northeast and Mid Atlantic, but this might fill a role similar to the NYC or Vegas threads.

With that, any suggestions for a great, scenic campground within a few hours of NYC (MD up through VT and NH ideally)? Looking for car camping options with nice scenery, good day hikes and maybe a cool downtown within a drive.

Anyone every camp at Elk Neck in MD, for starters?

 

[Koya]

Compilation of Suggested Campgrounds, Hikes etc.:

Campgrounds:

PA:

Tioga County - Home of the Pennsylvania Grand Canyon. http://www.visittiogapa.com/

Cooks Forest State Park in PA (Clarion area) http://www.cookfores...mping/index.cfm

Ohiopyle State Park in PA http://www.dcnr.stat...opyle/index.htm

 

[E-Z Glider]

Big Bend Campground, Monongahela National Forest, Union, Grant, West Virginia 26855

The cool thing about this place is that its on a peninsula surrounded by the Potomac river (put the above addy in Google Maps and you'll see what I mean) which makes it the perfect destination for a single-vehicle summer float. You can go to the entrance of the campground and literally drop your tube in on one side of the road and in about an hour, you'll be right back where you started except on the other side of the road. People would do the loop all day long, stopping to re-fill their drinks/coolers each time. Great fishing and swimming holes all along the way and even a nice rope swing.

 

[Dentist]

Don't camp with anyone named Steve

 

[FreeBaGeL]

 

[glock]

Backpacking covered up in here? I'm thinking that should that be a different thread.

 

[jb1020]

 

[Worm]

Any recommendations for a badass family tent? Would love to have one room for the wife and I to sleep, two other small rooms for kids, and maybe an entry area. There are a lot out there and it's hard to sort through the reviews sometimes.

 

[Koya]

Backpacking covered up in here? I'm thinking that should that be a different thread.

I'd think it should fall under this umbrella, unless you mean Urban Backpacking.

 

[[icon]]

Will NOT go camping without my Large ThermaRest Base Camp mat.

Also love my Kelty Cosmic 35 Bag. Have camped down into the teens with that bag and was plenty warm when zipped up nicely, but still comfortable for warm spring/fall evenings or cooler summer nights (I like it in the 20-75 degree range). Much warmer than that and I usually just sleep in my cocoon sleep sack. On very cold nights I use the Cocoon as a liner.

Cocoon Ultralight Air-core Pillow is always nice at night. Can adjust for firm/soft pillow based on preference. ALso like the silky side for warm nights or felt side for cooler nights.

 

[joffer]

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

For hiking/backpacking locations:

near NYC you can take PATH train to Hoboken, then take the Suffern line train to either Suffern or I prefer the Tuxedo stop. Pickup trail maps at EMS for Northern and Southern Bear Mountain trails (you will be hiking the Southern Bear Mtn trails).

For NH, I've hiked the AT from Franconia Notch to Crawford Notch. You'll need to setup transportation appropriately. If you've never hiked the AT I'd highly recommend, very well maintained trail and usually very scenic.

I agree w/ Icon on the thermarest, the ground is hard, you'll want the best cushioning you can afford.

 

[urbanhack]

I am specifically looking for info on campgrounds (tent camping / car camping) in the Northeast and Mid Atlantic, but this might fill a role similar to the NYC or Vegas threads.With that, any suggestions for a great, scenic campground within a few hours of NYC (MD up through VT and NH ideally)? Looking for car camping options with nice scenery, good day hikes and maybe a cool downtown within a drive.Anyone every camp at Elk Neck in MD, for starters?

Went camping up around the Catskills a few years ago. I'll see if I can dig up the name of the campground. 2.5 hour drive from NYC....nice spots and far enough spaced for some privacy.

 

[gsmayes]

I camped last summer at the mouth of the Two Hearted river on Lake Superior. It's a rustic campground with water by pump and pit toilets; shower available for a small fee at the Rainbow Lodge. You have to drive about 20 miles on logging roads to get there. The 4-6 hour canoe trip is very backwoods, a lot of fallen trees, sandbars and at least a couple portages. It was the first time I'd canoed since I was a kid, fairly difficult. We did a tahquamenon falls/whitefish point daytrip and Munising/pictured rocks daytrip. Beautiful place and very secluded. http://www.exploringthenorth.com/twoheart/rainbow.html

 

[Polish Hammer]

 

[Charlie Frown]

Don't camp with anyone named Steve

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Camping would be really fun if I could bring my bed... and toilet... and a television... and house

 

[Koya]

I am specifically looking for info on campgrounds (tent camping / car camping) in the Northeast and Mid Atlantic, but this might fill a role similar to the NYC or Vegas threads.With that, any suggestions for a great, scenic campground within a few hours of NYC (MD up through VT and NH ideally)? Looking for car camping options with nice scenery, good day hikes and maybe a cool downtown within a drive.Anyone every camp at Elk Neck in MD, for starters?

Went camping up around the Catskills a few years ago. I'll see if I can dig up the name of the campground. 2.5 hour drive from NYC....nice spots and far enough spaced for some privacy.

That would be awesome. Have tentatively booked a site at Mills Norrie State Park for memorial day weekend.Bear Spring looks promising for a spot by the lake most weekends. Also curious about Mongaup Pond which seems really nice but apparently they are über strict on noise etc. not looking to have a frat party but a few beers around the fire should be an option.I'm shocked at how little campground info / reviews is on the web.

 

[the moops]

I camped last summer at the mouth of the Two Hearted river on Lake Superior.

Seriously??

With that, any suggestions for a great, scenic campground within a few hours of NYC

 

[tommyboy]

Camping would be really fun if I could bring my bed... and toilet... and a television... and house

Ive slept in the cab of my truck, slept in tents, slept on tbe ground, and in the bed of my pickup. camping is refreshing. Ive got a mummy bag rated to -35 I can camp just about anywhere. We like to winter camp in the mountains jn the snow. Just need fire and its all good. Theres something primordial about being in the elements and getting dirty. Makes you appreciate going home to a hot shower and a roof.

 

[flapgreen]

Keep your wife away from the bathroom stalls. yw

 

[gsmayes]

I camped last summer at the mouth of the Two Hearted river on Lake Superior.

Seriously??

With that, any suggestions for a great, scenic campground within a few hours of NYC

I believe this is thee camping thread, not thee camping thread for people that live in NYC.

 

[E-Z Glider]

Have tentatively booked a site at Mills Norrie State Park for memorial day weekend.

The state parks around here will be jam-packed on memorial day weekend. In fact, all the decent campgrounds will. I remember calling around a few years back and had someone down in Luray, VA tell me "honey, you dont want to be anywhere near this place on memorial day weekend."You want an epic memorial day weekend? Go to Pine Creek (aka: The PA Grand Canyon) and rent a canoe from Pine Creek Outfitters (shuttle services available). Float to either Blackwell (17 miles - 1 day) or Slate Run (28 miles - 2/3 days). This stretch is considered the the crowning-jewel of PA canoeing. Guaranteed to have your own private camping spot right on the water each night (even on memorial day weekend). Sheer cliff walls, waterfalls cascading into the creek, bald eagles, rope swings into clear blue swimming holes. Bring an ultra-light rod and couple 1/4oz Rooster Tails. Nothing like pulling a fat rainbow trout out of the water and cooking it next to the creek over an open campfire. Just keep an eye on the water levels. Spring is the perfect time to go and its usually a very fun float, but if you happen to hit it right after a big rain, it could be a little more adventurous (class II/III). You can check the water levels on their website.

 

[[icon]]

I camped last summer at the mouth of the Two Hearted river on Lake Superior.

Seriously??

With that, any suggestions for a great, scenic campground within a few hours of NYC

I believe this is thee camping thread, not thee camping thread for people that live in NYC.

We realize manrattanites think the world revolves around them, but this is going to be a pretty boring thread if you limit it to the 3 Manrattan FBGs that might go camping this year

 

[-jb-]

Any recommendations for a badass family tent? Would love to have one room for the wife and I to sleep, two other small rooms for kids, and maybe an entry area. There are a lot out there and it's hard to sort through the reviews sometimes.

Not exactly what you described but I have an REI Kingdom 6 and I love it. They also make an 8, but the 6 is plenty big enough for two adults, two kids, and a Labrador. You can also buy a garage for it to store your gear.

 

[Apple Jack]

I camped last summer at the mouth of the Two Hearted river on Lake Superior.

Seriously??

With that, any suggestions for a great, scenic campground within a few hours of NYC

I believe this is thee camping thread, not thee camping thread for people that live in NYC.

We realize manrattanites think the world revolves around them, but this is going to be a pretty boring thread if you limit it to the 3 Manrattan FBGs that might go camping this year

The guy who started the thread specifically asked for places within a few hours of NYC.

 

[gmbacm]

I'm shocked at how little campground info / reviews is on the web.

There is a site waiting to be created here...

 

[ivnabru]

Just bought the Karakoram 20 bag when it came out (First Ascent brought it back was a pretty good bag in the 70s). Absolutely awesome, not cheap. But great. I've already taken it out at 15 degrees and was comfortable (granted had a bivvy and a sleeping pad) and it's only 2 lbs. I'm backpacking with under 20 lbs on weekend trips now.

 

[nysportsfan]

:sehorn:

I really need to go camping this spring/summer.

 

[Osaurus]

Used to do tons of camping in CO, WY, MI, and WI. Now, not so much as the tolerable season in FL is a couple of months IMO. Did a lot of USFS campgrounds and some primitive. I would say one of the most important things is to have your gear well organized. Also, the USFS forest maps are great. I cannot recommend them enough.

 

[Koya]

I camped last summer at the mouth of the Two Hearted river on Lake Superior.

Seriously??

With that, any suggestions for a great, scenic campground within a few hours of NYC

I believe this is thee camping thread, not thee camping thread for people that live in NYC.

Correct. My immediate personal need is 4 hour drive or less from NYC but I thought it would be useful to have a thread dedicated to camping in general.

 

[Koya]

Keep your wife away from the bathroom stalls. yw

She already has asked if she can wear heels in the tent.

 

[Stoneys]

I am specifically looking for info on campgrounds (tent camping / car camping) in the Northeast and Mid Atlantic, but this might fill a role similar to the NYC or Vegas threads.

With that, any suggestions for a great, scenic campground within a few hours of NYC (MD up through VT and NH ideally)? Looking for car camping options with nice scenery, good day hikes and maybe a cool downtown within a drive.

Anyone every camp at Elk Neck in MD, for starters?

Tioga County - Home of the Pennsylvania Grand Canyon. http://www.visittiogapa.com/Cooks Forest State Park in PA (Clarion area) http://www.cookforest.com/activities/camping/index.cfm

Ohiopyle State Park in PA http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/stateparks/findapark/ohiopyle/index.htm

 

[Guest]

I need to get out and do more camping this year. Along the "kids grow up so fast" lines, my kids are almost too busy now to take an extended camping trip.

My son will graduate HS next year, and I hope he and I can get back up to the Boundary Waters for one last hoorah.

 

[moleculo]

I'm open to hearing about any great spots in the southern Appalachian area...western NC, GA, SC, TN, western VA. We've been in this area 4 years now and have found a few good spots, always on the lookout for more.

Here's where I've been over the past few years:

Table Rock State Park

KEOWEE-TOXAWAY State Park: better than Table Rock - more secluded campground, softer ground.

Carolina Hemlocks Recreation Area really liked this area for tubing and fishing, but seemed a little crowded.

Black Rock Mountain State Park

Beyond that, I have some places I can suggest in florida, southern WY, and Yellowstone.

 

[E-Z Glider]

I am specifically looking for info on campgrounds (tent camping / car camping) in the Northeast and Mid Atlantic, but this might fill a role similar to the NYC or Vegas threads.

With that, any suggestions for a great, scenic campground within a few hours of NYC (MD up through VT and NH ideally)? Looking for car camping options with nice scenery, good day hikes and maybe a cool downtown within a drive.

Anyone every camp at Elk Neck in MD, for starters?

Tioga County - Home of the Pennsylvania Grand Canyon. http://www.visittiogapa.com/Cooks Forest State Park in PA (Clarion area) http://www.cookforest.com/activities/camping/index.cfm

Ohiopyle State Park in PA http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/stateparks/findapark/ohiopyle/index.htm

All 3 are excellent destinations.I already gave my recommendation for PA Grand Canyon.

Cooks Forest is a beautiful area, but Id actually camp at Clear Creek State Park rather than Cooks Forest. Cooks is a parking lot for RVs. Clear Creek offers some non-electric sites which offer woods and privacy for tent campers, specifically sites 42-53. Go for a hike and check out some of the old-growth forests. There are trees here estimated to be 450 years old. Gives you a real idea of what it was like before all the clear-cutting. The Clarion River also offers great canoeing/swimming/fishing.

Kentuck Campground is a great place in Ohiopyle for a family. It has 226 sites, but you'll want one of the 26 walk-in tent sites for maximum privacy. There are also some super-fun private (ie: huge party) campsites around this area if going without kids. If you go here, you have to go white water rafting. Dont take a canoe unless you have airbags and know what you're doing.

 

[urbanhack]

I am specifically looking for info on campgrounds (tent camping / car camping) in the Northeast and Mid Atlantic, but this might fill a role similar to the NYC or Vegas threads.With that, any suggestions for a great, scenic campground within a few hours of NYC (MD up through VT and NH ideally)? Looking for car camping options with nice scenery, good day hikes and maybe a cool downtown within a drive.Anyone every camp at Elk Neck in MD, for starters?

Went camping up around the Catskills a few years ago. I'll see if I can dig up the name of the campground. 2.5 hour drive from NYC....nice spots and far enough spaced for some privacy.

That would be awesome. Have tentatively booked a site at Mills Norrie State Park for memorial day weekend.Bear Spring looks promising for a spot by the lake most weekends. Also curious about Mongaup Pond which seems really nice but apparently they are über strict on noise etc. not looking to have a frat party but a few beers around the fire should be an option.I'm shocked at how little campground info / reviews is on the web.

Mongaup Pond is where we camped. It rained all weekend and almost no one was there, so can't comment on the noise. But I really liked the layout and the scenery of the campground!

 

[Koya]

Appreciate the early advice. As far as memorial day I know it will be a #### show and would want to be part of it. Would be wide and I and friends drinking and all so don't care that it's busy and we have a decent site that isn't too close to adjoining camp sites

 

[Stoneys]

I am specifically looking for info on campgrounds (tent camping / car camping) in the Northeast and Mid Atlantic, but this might fill a role similar to the NYC or Vegas threads.

With that, any suggestions for a great, scenic campground within a few hours of NYC (MD up through VT and NH ideally)? Looking for car camping options with nice scenery, good day hikes and maybe a cool downtown within a drive.

Anyone every camp at Elk Neck in MD, for starters?

Tioga County - Home of the Pennsylvania Grand Canyon. http://www.visittiogapa.com/Cooks Forest State Park in PA (Clarion area) http://www.cookforest.com/activities/camping/index.cfm

Ohiopyle State Park in PA http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/stateparks/findapark/ohiopyle/index.htm

All 3 are excellent destinations.I already gave my recommendation for PA Grand Canyon.

Cooks Forest is a beautiful area, but Id actually camp at Clear Creek State Park rather than Cooks Forest. Cooks is a parking lot for RVs. Clear Creek offers some non-electric sites which offer woods and privacy for tent campers, specifically sites 42-53. Go for a hike and check out some of the old-growth forests. There are trees here estimated to be 450 years old. Gives you a real idea of what it was like before all the clear-cutting. The Clarion River also offers great canoeing/swimming/fishing.

Kentuck Campground is a great place in Ohiopyle for a family. It has 226 sites, but you'll want one of the 26 walk-in tent sites for maximum privacy. There are also some super-fun private (ie: huge party) campsites around this area if going without kids. If you go here, you have to go white water rafting. Dont take a canoe unless you have airbags and know what you're doing.

Also not far from Cooks Forest / Clear Creek is the Allegheny National Forest. Plenty of area to camp and hike. One is the North Country Trail. If you are into fishing, all three off loads of fishing. Cooks Forest/Clear Creek on on the Clarion River for canoeing/kayaking too. Upper Allegheny River also has canoeing/kayaking in the Tionesta/Tidioute/Warren areas. Which reminds me that the Kinzua Bridge State Park and Kinzua Lake and Dam area for camping.Yough Lake and Dam are not that far from Ohiopyle State Park and it also offers camping. Ohiopyle offers white water rafting as well as calmer canoeing/kayaking from Yough Dam to the whitewater area.

Also, if you are into hikinig/walking or biking, there is the Greater Allegheny Passage. http://www.atatrail.org/

The Greater Allegheny Passage is 141 miles long and connects Pittsburgh, PA with Cumberland, MD. In Cumberland, the GAP joins the C&O Canal Towpath, creating a continuous trail experience, 325 miles long, to Washington, DC.

 

[Worm]

I'm open to hearing about any great spots in the southern Appalachian area...western NC, GA, SC, TN, western VA. We've been in this area 4 years now and have found a few good spots, always on the lookout for more.

Here's where I've been over the past few years:

Table Rock State Park

KEOWEE-TOXAWAY State Park: better than Table Rock - more secluded campground, softer ground.

Carolina Hemlocks Recreation Area really liked this area for tubing and fishing, but seemed a little crowded.

Black Rock Mountain State Park

Beyond that, I have some places I can suggest in florida, southern WY, and Yellowstone.

I don't remember, do you have any kids? Just curious which you'd recommend with young-ish kids tagging along.eta - most interested in having some easy hikes and streams to play in

 

[moleculo]

I'm open to hearing about any great spots in the southern Appalachian area...western NC, GA, SC, TN, western VA. We've been in this area 4 years now and have found a few good spots, always on the lookout for more.

Here's where I've been over the past few years:

Table Rock State Park

KEOWEE-TOXAWAY State Park: better than Table Rock - more secluded campground, softer ground.

Carolina Hemlocks Recreation Area really liked this area for tubing and fishing, but seemed a little crowded.

Black Rock Mountain State Park

Beyond that, I have some places I can suggest in florida, southern WY, and Yellowstone.

I don't remember, do you have any kids? Just curious which you'd recommend with young-ish kids tagging along.eta - most interested in having some easy hikes and streams to play in

yes - small kids. Oldest being 4 last year. Last We went to Carolina Hemlocks and would have had a better time if it didn't rain. Camping in the rain sucks enough without dealing with the kids who have no real interest in keeping mud out of the tent. They had a nice creek that you could walk to and tube in. A quick hike down the creek and you could find a nice little fishing hole, but ther may be tubers floating down. We ended up driving down a ways to find tuber-free area to try to fish, but didn't really have any luck.Year before that was Keowee-Toxaway and Table Rock. Keowee-toxaway was much better IMO. There were some nice little hikes in the area, but a but much for a 3 yr old. She ended up riding in the back-pack for most of it. There was a real nice lake there that looked fishable. Table Rock and Toxaway are really close to each other and there are some nice hikes in the area, but both are a short drive - i.e. trail head is not necessarily directly in the campground.

 

[Koya]

Went camping the last couple weeks - my first time in years, and wife's first two times ever. So far, so good ( thank god, because I was in no mood to return all our ####).

Quick reviews for two campsites close to NYC.

Clarence Fahnstock. Right off the taxonomy in Carmel,

NY about 55 miles north of NYC.

Very pleased and pleasantly surprised after making resevations one night before. Lucked out with the last site in a loop, so had a good amount of space and privacy. Pretty/ wooded terrain with some bedrock in places. A good number of fairly private sites but also some almost field like, great for groups if you get adjacent sites but otherwise not nice. You can mostly tell the better / more secluded sites from the map.

No rvs which is a plus, and looked to be a number of hiking / biking options. Cool little Hudson river town called Cold Spring with a couple pubs and some good food options as well. Had a great brunch at Hudson Hills market and cafe and the depot has a great outdoor patio for an afternoon brew.

This weekend: Mills Norrie State Park

Beatiful park but meh campground on banks of the Hudson 20 north of Poughkeepsie. Mostly flat with woods but not dense enough for privacy. A few secluded ish spots but wouldn't recommend unless you will be using the park marina etc. more a communal experience and had a great time thanks to cool neighbors. Rhineneck is a cute lil artsy/yuppie main st town with a few restaurants, bistros and theatres/arts.

 

[pittstownkiller]

I make a yearly trek to a wilderness preserve run by the NYSDEP in the Adirondacks (not to far from Lake Placid); It is the William C. Whitney preserve and it is primitive camping. No power equipment, no running water, just box privies, bears, and moose. It is on the shores of Lake Lila and it is very serene. You will need a to get to most sites but you can get them brought to you. I go up around July 4th and get in at least one night in the town of Long Lake . It is a bear hiking your equipment in, so you should know what your doing; between the trails and the canoeing you will be miles from your car.

Another link with a picture.

 

[Koya]

Kutta had some questions re: Camping, thought I'd recap here:

1. I am thinking of getting a few tents - a four-man for the wife and I, a four-man for the girls (14 and 16), and a two-man for my boy. There is no way one big tent would fly with everyone - they are really used to their own space and I pretty much want to keep it that way.

2. What else do I need?

3. How do you cook food?

4. What do you do for lights?

5. How do you start a fire?

Give me all the basics. I don't need anything fancy. We plan to keep things pretty simple.

1. Ton's of tent options out there. REI had, until recently, some great 4 person from a season ago, if you can still get one, grab and go (Kingdom 4). Even at 20% off if you can get some regular coupon and it's a great basic tent. I've had great experience way back when with Sierra Designs, but they were very light weight, more geared for backpacking.2. There are camping check lists all over the web. REI has one: http://www.rei.com/expertadvice/articles/family+camping+checklist.html but a google search will yield a number of options.

3. Cooking can come in a few options. Assuming car camping, portable propane grills (weber Q, coleman has one) works great and you can get a propane stove also. Many campsites also have either a charcoal grill and / or a fire pit with a grill. But get yourself a travel grill (propane or charcoal) and a two burner propane stove and you'll be good to start.

4. Plenty of economical lanterns (LED's are all over btw. A LOT of light not much price). I have some funky lil guy thats awesome (will look up the name), but don't need to overthink this.

Candles work. Fire gives off some light as well. I'd suggest one or two big coleman LED lanterns (like 25-40 depending on the bells and whistles) and some smaller ones, including light weight ones to hang inside your tent (there will be lil hanging hooks, essentially).

Also think of tent fans for hot nights.

5. Easiest way to start a fire is to get some firestarter wood, it's a charm. Make sure you arrive to the site, if possible, with 2-3 bundles of TREATED wood (untreated is not allowed in many campsites).

Hope that helps to start from someone getting his wife introduced to camping while reacquainting myself.

 

[kutta]

Thanks Koya!

I don't know how to merge threads, but if the mods want to merge mine into this one, I'm totally cool with that.

 

[Koya]

Thanks Koya!I don't know how to merge threads, but if the mods want to merge mine into this one, I'm totally cool with that.

Meh, if we keep the convo here will take care of itself. I find the Vegas and NYC threads very helpful, and when I was looking for camping advice I found very, very little on the web (surprisingly), so a clearinghouse thread seemed appropriate.My next step is a mountain bike (500-750 bucks).

 

[[icon]]

Thermarest base camp mats to sleep on.

Cook on the fire itself. Campfire fajitas in tin roasting tray... Or use a Dutch oven. Either way cooking on a stove is lame. Build a fire, and use it.

Inflatable pillows are great. When combined with therma rest mats and a nice bag w stuff sack you can get your bedding down nice and small.

Kids may act too cool for smores.... Until you break em out at the campsite.

Get a good footprint for your tent. Too big and it will trap water under it. Too small and #### will soak thru.

 

[Apple Jack]

If you're car camping, forget the Thermarest and just bring air mattresses. That's the beauty of car camping; it's like camping in your backyard. You don't have to haul anything. You can get Thermarests once you start camping camping.

 

[kutta]

Thermarest base camp mats to sleep on.Cook on the fire itself. Campfire fajitas in tin roasting tray... Or use a Dutch oven. Either way cooking on a stove is lame. Build a fire, and use it. Inflatable pillows are great. When combined with therma rest mats and a nice bag w stuff sack you can get your bedding down nice and small.Kids may act too cool for smores.... Until you break em out at the campsite. Get a good footprint for your tent. Too big and it will trap water under it. Too small and #### will soak thru.

Do you have a specific tent suggestion? I have no idea what is good and what isn't.I saw a Coleman 4- man tent at Costco for like $60. It seemed like a great deal, but again, I have no clue.

 

[kutta]

If you're car camping, forget the Thermarest and just bring air mattresses. That's the beauty of car camping; it's like camping in your backyard. You don't have to haul anything. You can get Thermarests once you start camping camping.

Air mattresses seem like such a pain to inflate. Are they cheaper than the Thermarest thingies?