The Chris Johnson Hype machine (3 Viewers)

[benm3218]

Did anyone watch the Titans game? He is going to be good. Very good.

 

[benm3218]

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d809e4d39

at 31 seconds watch when he first gets the hand off. He does a little lateral shake move to dodge a defender and is gone.

If you blink you will miss this move, but its a move that he excels at and that I have never seen someone make while moving full speed.

 

[joffer]

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d809e4d39

at 31 seconds watch when he first gets the hand off. He does a little lateral shake move to dodge a defender and is gone.

If you blink you will miss this move, but its a move that he excels at and that I have never seen someone make while moving full speed.

he sidestepped a guy being blocked. big deal.

 

[switz]

Did anyone watch the Titans game? He is going to be good. Very good.

A 66 yard TD where no one touched him against a terrible defense isn't super impressive. It was a weak weak weak defense and a hole to run through.The other 5 carries for 11 yards is worrisome to say the least. He'll be great if they can get him in space, but I wouldn't bet on him being an everydown back any time soon.

 

[Jon_Moore]

Did anyone watch the Titans game? He is going to be good. Very good.

A 66 yard TD where no one touched him against a terrible defense isn't super impressive. It was a weak weak weak defense and a hole to run through.The other 5 carries for 11 yards is worrisome to say the least. He'll be great if they can get him in space, but I wouldn't bet on him being an everydown back any time soon.

The run wasn't that impressive. Pretty much ran a straight line, which a handful of guys have the speed to make that play, but probably 90% of backs get tackled before the endzone.Still, to say 5 carries for 11 yards is worrisome to say the least? Are we equally worried about Maroney, Ray Rice?

 

[Michael Fox Fan]

Jonathan Stewart - 33.5Rashard Mendenhall - 32.2Tashard Choice - 30.5Ray Rice - 30.3Ryan Torain - 29.9Felix Jones - 29.6Steve Slaton - 29.0Kevin Smith - 28.5Matt Forte - 28.4Jamaal Charles - 27.9Darren McFadden - 27.7Chris Johnson - 27.5

This is part of the reason why I'm down on guys like Charles, Forte, Smith, and McFadden. The BMI numbers don't trump what my eyeballs show me, but this year they align with my pre-established opinions almost perfectly. I always felt that Rice and Mendenhall looked like a RB should look when they ran the football, whereas most of the low BMI guys failed to win me over at any point in the process. I think I've been evaluating RBs long enough to have a rough idea of what a RB "should" look like. When a RB doesn't meet those standards, it concerns me. These numbers offer a clue about what I'm seeing in their play that doesn't sit well with me.

So if you had to choose, straight up, between Lendale White and Chris Johnson who would you prefer?

I can't imagine why I would ever be forced to choose between them.

That's a helpful response. Thanks.And it's actually meaningful, since the Titans presumably will make some variation on that choice every week.

It was a somewhat pointless question IMO. White is junk. Whether or not Chris Johnson is junk is a different discussion.

Just give him an answer to the question Could it be that you don't want to have to say Chris Johnson?

I can find plenty of examples of thin backs who are better than big backs. I would rather have Jerious Norwood on my team than Musa Smith. Isolating these exceptions isn't helpful. The real question is not whether a good low BMI back can be better than a terrible ideal BMI back, but rather whether a good high BMI back is better than a good low BMI back. It must be true that even the best low BMI backs are not as good as the best high BMI backs since you simply don't find many succeeding in the NFL (and not for lack of supply since there are undoubtedly thousands of good low BMI athletes in the USA). The best low BMI athletes don't play RB. They play WR, CB, S, and basketball. The fact that you don't find them starting in the backfield of NFL teams is because they don't have the proper physical equipment to do the job well.

If we're debating the prospects of Chris Johnson and you say "he's not an ideal RB, he has a poor BMI", and he's competing directly with only Lendale White for carries, then I'd say it's a pretty relevant question. And to dismiss it as "pointless" is just rude.

 

[BigRed]

I'm quite content not knowing wtf "BMI" is, but regardless I'd say I have seen nothing to change my mind that White is the workhorse and Johnson is the change-of-pace guy who might break a few long ones and/or snag some catches, but have plenty of unimpressive runs in between and White will easily have the better numbers come Christmas.

 

[titanT]

Did anyone watch the Titans game? He is going to be good. Very good.

A 66 yard TD where no one touched him against a terrible defense isn't super impressive. It was a weak weak weak defense and a hole to run through.The other 5 carries for 11 yards is worrisome to say the least. He'll be great if they can get him in space, but I wouldn't bet on him being an everydown back any time soon.

Sure, all he did was outrun the angle on a DB that ran a 4.33 40 yard dash

 

[Bri]

Did anyone watch the Titans game? He is going to be good. Very good.

A 66 yard TD where no one touched him against a terrible defense isn't super impressive. It was a weak weak weak defense and a hole to run through.The other 5 carries for 11 yards is worrisome to say the least. He'll be great if they can get him in space, but I wouldn't bet on him being an everydown back any time soon.

5 for 11 stinks. It's not like Lendale did much better than that.The point the Titans have made time and time again is that if they can get him in the right situation, he's gone. That was true against the Rams. This is exactly why Heimerdinger is working up ways to get him in "the right situation"-lining him up wide, in the slot, RB wherever. The other point the Titans have made is that he excites everyone. Look at their rushing stats for the game AFTER he broke that big one vs before. He fired up the team. I imagine Fisher and Heimerdinger are working overtime now to find as many ways as possible to get this kid in the right spot.

 

[Avery]

I know people say don't take pre-season stats and plays too seriously but watching the ####-eating grins on the coaches faces after that play sure made me think that they are going to be working hard to find more and more playing time for this guy.

 

[titanT]

Also, CJ was 197 at the combine, where I'm sure he was a little light to run a fast time. He could easily play at 205 and be within your "magic range." BMI makes sense, but it's mostly common sense. I'd bet there's a stronger correlation with lower body strength, or Power Clean, Deadlift, Squat, and Leg Press numbers than BMI alone.

The other thing is that BMI only matters if you have skills. BMI in itself doesn't tell you anything. I'm 6'2.5'' and 245 lbs. with a BMI of 31, but I don't think I'd be a very good NFL RB. Vision, instincts, hands, balance, quickness, toughness, burst, etc. are all very important for a RB.

A lot of people misunderstand what I'm saying about BMI. I've never said that every person with an ideal BMI is going to be a great NFL running back. That's a ridiculous argument that I would never make. My basic argument about BMI is as follows:- Most of the elite RBs in the NFL fall within a narrow range of BMIs (roughly 29.5-33.5).

- There are very few RBs outside this range who have achieved sustained success in the modern NFL. Therefore...

- We should probably be wary of RB prospects who don't fall within this range. And...

- When given a choice between a RB prospect with a poor BMI and a RB prospect with an ideal BMI, we should probably favor the RB prospect with the ideal BMI assuming that he has a similar draft pedigree (i.e. favor Mendenhall over Johnson and Rice over Charles).

This year offers a great test of the importance of BMI since there were several ideal guys drafted in the first few rounds and several undersized guys drafted in the same general range. We could split them up into two groups leaving out some of the tweeners:

Ideal BMI

Jonathan Stewart - First Round

Rashard Mendenhall - First Round

Ray Rice - Second Round

Tashard Choice - Fourth Round

Low BMI

Darren McFadden - First Round

Chris Johnson - First Round

Matt Forte - Second Round

Jamaal Charles - Third Round

Anything can happen, but my prediction is that the four backs in the first group will cumulatively outperform the four backs in the second group over the next 6-8 years. Feel free to bookmark this post and bump it in the future. It will be interesting to look back on this.

Fair enough, I agree with you on many points. I think I misunderstood you or took your BMI claims the wrong way, but I think CJ can be very effective even if he can't carry the load. And adding 5-8 lbs. still isn't out of the question. Isn't Warrick Dunn 5'9'' 180? That's a 26.6, and he's had a long, successful career, although he is the exception rather than the rule.Also, how do you think body fat % plays into this? Some of the bigger backs don't have a very low bf %, so a lower bf would = a lower BMI (and maybe closer to being out of the desired range). It looks like CJ has a very low bf %.

 

[Jason Wood]

I love the kid and think he's going to be THE ball carrier by season's end. Either way, his upside could be Maurice Jones-Drew. I'm not suggesting he'll match Jones-Drew's improbably RB8 finish in his rookie season, but I do think Johnson will EASILY best his current ridiculously low ADP.

For those who keep arguing that FatDale is the workhorse, do you think Jeff Fisher is lying?

Fisher says Titans have enough carries for both White and Johnson

http://www.nashvillecitypaper.com/news.php?viewStory=61997

One preseason game is too early to judge, but the Tennessee Titans now seem well stocked at the running back position.

So well stocked that the questions become how many to do they keep on the 53-man roster and how do they divide the carries up between the running backs.

At the very least, first-round pick Chris Johnson has forced his way quickly into the conversation regarding the No. 1 running back spot that solely belonged to LenDale White last season.

Johnson’s 66-yard romp to the end zone in Saturday’s 34-13 victory over the St. Louis Rams created quite a buzz among Titans fans, and validated the theory that Johnson can be more than just a “change of pace” back for LenDale White.

“I probably should clarify things right now as far as the starting running back position is concerned,” Fisher said, trying to snuff out any talk of a running back controversy. “We’re going to use a number of running backs, and the starter, as far as I’m concerned, will be the guy that plays the first play in the game, not because one has earned the privilege to start over another. It’ll be based on what we decide to do as an offensive staff to start the game.”

White started and ran well behind the first line, getting 33 yards on six carries, all on the first offensive series, before yielding to Johnson.

Fisher said there would be ample playing time for both running backs, depending upon the situation.

“They’re going to play, and obviously, we’re going to have two players, and as it looks right now, it’s going to be LenDale and it’s going to be Chris [Johnson], and we’re going to interchange them throughout the game and back them up with the other guys,” Fisher said.

Even who those backups are might have become a bit cloudier after Saturday’s game, as Quinton Ganther rushed for 115 yards on eight carries in the second half, including two touchdowns. Could that allow Ganther to push for a roster spot or perhaps even push third-stringer Chris Henry, who finished with 38 yards on nine rushes.

“Q is here, and he’s stayed here because he’s got that kind of potential and that type of run skills,” Fisher said. “His special teams production is improving. He’s the kind of guy you want on your team. He knows what to do. He’s flexible. Last year, if you recall, he played some fullback for us. He’s a good teammate, and he’s fun to watch.”

Ganther knows he is in a tough fight, despite his strong effort.

“This is a great all-around team from start to finish,” Ganther said. “We don’t have any weak links on this team, so it’s going to be hard to make a 53-man roster from what we have in this locker room.”

Fisher wouldn’t commit to who would start or how the carries would be divvied up Friday night against the Oakland Raiders, saying only that he would like to get an earlier look at Johnson and Henry sometime during the preseason.

What did LenDale White do last year that warrants his keeping the job over a more talented youngster? His only real attribute was the ability to stay healthy enough to handled 300+ carries. The guy averaged 3.7 yards per rush last season, and scored a whopping 7 TDs on 303 carries. Those are hardly the kind of metrics that imply job security IMHO.Of the six RBs who logged 300+ carries last year, LenDale had the 2nd worst YPR (3.7) [second worst to Thomas Jones]

For a bit more perspective, there have been 48 instances of 300+ carry RBs in the last five seasons. White's YPR ranks 43rd out of 48. His 164.2 fantasy points ranks 45th out of 48. The guy did nothing last year but log 300 carries; the definition of a compiler.

White will still get touches because the Titans would be silly to hand Chris Johnson 20+ touches right out of the gate. But Johnson will be the more productive fantasy back in PPR leagues, and they'll be neck and neck in traditional redrafts IMHO.

 

[Bri]

What did LenDale White do last year that warrants his keeping the job over a more talented youngster? His only real attribute was the ability to stay healthy enough to handled 300+ carries. The guy averaged 3.7 yards per rush last season, and scored a whopping 7 TDs on 303 carries. Those are hardly the kind of metrics that imply job security IMHO.Of the six RBs who logged 300+ carries last year, LenDale had the 2nd worst YPR (3.7) [second worst to Thomas Jones]For a bit more perspective, there have been 48 instances of 300+ carry RBs in the last five seasons. White's YPR ranks 43rd out of 48. His 164.2 fantasy points ranks 45th out of 48. The guy did nothing last year but log 300 carries; the definition of a compiler. White will still get touches because the Titans would be silly to hand Chris Johnson 20+ touches right out of the gate. But Johnson will be the more productive fantasy back in PPR leagues, and they'll be neck and neck in traditional redrafts IMHO.

Odd that you left out 1110 yards rushing in his first year starting, almost seemed to dance around it.

 

[BigRed]

For those who keep arguing that FatDale is the workhorse, do you think Jeff Fisher is lying?

Oh goodness no, of course not; coaches NEVER lie in pre-season! PS where does he say White WON'T be the workhorse anyway? He is (surprise surprise) pretty vague, only saying he will use White and Johnson.

What did LenDale White do last year that warrants his keeping the job over a more talented youngster? His only real attribute was the ability to stay healthy enough to handled 300+ carries.

Well if THAT'S all...How many guys are considered good enough and reliable enough and have a team situation such that they get 300 carries?

The guy averaged 3.7 yards per rush last season, and scored a whopping 7 TDs on 303 carries. Those are hardly the kind of metrics that imply job security IMHO.

Yeah it's not like that lame offense (and him being dinged up) had anything to do w/it. Another example of how stats can be short-sighted and misleading.

Johnson will be the more productive fantasy back in PPR leagues, and they'll be neck and neck in traditional redrafts IMHO.

Anything is possible but I really doubt it.But hey totally avoid a guy who only cranked out 1000+ yds and 7 TDs last year and showed he could carry the load - even on a weak team - for a guy who hasn't proven squat and may end up with something like 200/300 yds rushing this year (not saying he will, just saying it would shock no one not riding the CJ bandwagon) and netting few if any points most games. I hope owners in my league agree.

 

[Bri]

What did LenDale White do last year that warrants his keeping the job over a more talented youngster? His only real attribute was the ability to stay healthy enough to handled 300+ carries. The guy averaged 3.7 yards per rush last season, and scored a whopping 7 TDs on 303 carries. Those are hardly the kind of metrics that imply job security IMHO.Of the six RBs who logged 300+ carries last year, LenDale had the 2nd worst YPR (3.7) [second worst to Thomas Jones]For a bit more perspective, there have been 48 instances of 300+ carry RBs in the last five seasons. White's YPR ranks 43rd out of 48. His 164.2 fantasy points ranks 45th out of 48. The guy did nothing last year but log 300 carries; the definition of a compiler.

White's stats are right in line with Eddie George. Eddie's whole career people wanted a higher average from him. He ONLY finished as the 21st ranked rushing yards all time. Jeff Fisher pounds his RB in the first quarter and last quarter. Lendale (like Eddie used to) had more carries in the 1st and 4th Q than most of his peers.Eddie's a fine model to follow, same with Fisher.

 

[LHUCKS]

Did anyone watch the Titans game? He is going to be good. Very good.

A 66 yard TD where no one touched him against a terrible defense isn't super impressive. It was a weak weak weak defense and a hole to run through.The other 5 carries for 11 yards is worrisome to say the least. He'll be great if they can get him in space, but I wouldn't bet on him being an everydown back any time soon.

 

[Michael Fox Fan]

Did anyone watch the Titans game? He is going to be good. Very good.

A 66 yard TD where no one touched him against a terrible defense isn't super impressive. It was a weak weak weak defense and a hole to run through.The other 5 carries for 11 yards is worrisome to say the least. He'll be great if they can get him in space, but I wouldn't bet on him being an everydown back any time soon.

5 for 11 stinks. It's not like Lendale did much better than that.The point the Titans have made time and time again is that if they can get him in the right situation, he's gone. That was true against the Rams. This is exactly why Heimerdinger is working up ways to get him in "the right situation"-lining him up wide, in the slot, RB wherever.

The other point the Titans have made is that he excites everyone. Look at their rushing stats for the game AFTER he broke that big one vs before. He fired up the team.

I imagine Fisher and Heimerdinger are working overtime now to find as many ways as possible to get this kid in the right spot.

I don't really understand what you're saying here, but if you're going to go in this direction:5 for 11 --> 2.2 yards per carry

Lendale rushed 6 times for 33 yards --> 5.5 yards per carry. That's a pretty big difference, and it's hard to fathom how you can say "not much better" than 2.2 yds per carry.

 

[fun-b]

How many passes would you project Johnson to catch? Haven't really it discussed yet.

I'll start things off.

Lets just say Vince Young completes roughly 240 passes.

I'll say his floor his 40 catches and his ceiling is 65 catches.

We all know Vince loves to scramble which in turn creates oppurtunities to catch short dumps when he gets pressured. Not to mention, I'm sure the Titans have worked up many a screen plays for Johnson.

Completely off-topic....everybody knows the saying "a picture is worth a million words". Well, just look at a picture of Chris Johnson and tell me he is going to be easy to bring down. The guy is chiseled. He has about the most ideal 200 lbs. of football running muscle you could imagine. Sorry, mancrush taking over there. Seriously though. Just looking at him says "football player".

 

[Jason Wood]

What did LenDale White do last year that warrants his keeping the job over a more talented youngster? His only real attribute was the ability to stay healthy enough to handled 300+ carries. The guy averaged 3.7 yards per rush last season, and scored a whopping 7 TDs on 303 carries. Those are hardly the kind of metrics that imply job security IMHO.

Of the six RBs who logged 300+ carries last year, LenDale had the 2nd worst YPR (3.7) [second worst to Thomas Jones]

For a bit more perspective, there have been 48 instances of 300+ carry RBs in the last five seasons. White's YPR ranks 43rd out of 48. His 164.2 fantasy points ranks 45th out of 48. The guy did nothing last year but log 300 carries; the definition of a compiler.

White will still get touches because the Titans would be silly to hand Chris Johnson 20+ touches right out of the gate. But Johnson will be the more productive fantasy back in PPR leagues, and they'll be neck and neck in traditional redrafts IMHO.

Odd that you left out 1110 yards rushing in his first year starting, almost seemed to dance around it.

Sorry, I didn't think I had to do the math. If you know his carries (which I mention) and his YPC (which I mention), you get his yardage.The Eddie George example is an interesting one. I can certainly see the comparison there in terms of having a plodding YPR. Big difference though is that George was worked to the bone. That's not today's NFL. And we've had both Jeff Fisher and 'Dinger talk about using multiple backs this year, you didn't see that kind of talk back in George's day.

George was a fantasy commodity because he got 350 carries AND turned himself into an excellent receiver. If you think LenDale is going to get 350 carries and also become a dynamic receiver, more power to you.

Before we go TOO far with the Eddie George comparison though, let's consider something:

Eddie George -- Drafted 1st round, 1996 draft
1997 -- Zero RBs drafted
1998 -- Zero RBs drafted
1999 -- Zero RBs drafted
2000 -- Mike Green, 7th rounder, drafted
2001 -- Dan Alexander, 6th round FULLBACK, drafted
2002 -- Zero RBs drafted
2003 -- Zero RBs draftedOver Eddie George's ENTIRE CAREER AS A OILER/TITAN, the team drafted two other RBs, a 7th rounder who never made an impact and a 6th round fullback. Think about that, the team never even drafted someone to back him up.

You're seriously trying to compare that to LenDale's situation?

LenDale White -- Drafted 2nd round, 2006 draft
2006 -- Quinton Ganther, 7th rounder, drafted
2007 -- Chris Henry, 2nd rounder, drafted
2008 -- Chris Johnson, 1st rounder, draftedYep...seems like a representative comparison of what Fisher and Dinger have planned.

 

[Tanner9919]

Did anyone watch the Titans game? He is going to be good. Very good.

admittedly , I did not see the game...don't want to sound harsh or anything, but how much can we really take out of this game.1. its the first pre-season game for both teams..

2. it was against the St Louis Lambs pathetic run defense, further watered down because it was their first pre-season game

don't want to get all giddy over one performance in a meaningless preseason game against a watered down version of one of the NFL's worst defenses from a year ago...

Not saying CJ doesn't have loads of talent, but, I need to see more than just one game against St Louis to be persuaded..

heck,even Maurice Morris looked all-world the other night against the Vikings supposedly rock solid run defense...MAURICE MORRIS!

I am big on McFadden because he was simply a beast in college...I'll climb on that CJ bandwagon once I see him tear it up in the 3rd pre-season game against Atlanta, another pathetically weak run defense from a year ago..but at lest in the 3rd pre-season game, teams play their starters for the better part of 3 full quarters, using 'real' schemes and not the watered down pre-season week one schemes like we've just witnessed.If CJ looks all-world in that 3rd game, I'll climb aboard the train!

 

[tribecalledjeff]

Did anyone watch the Titans game? He is going to be good. Very good.

A 66 yard TD where no one touched him against a terrible defense isn't super impressive. It was a weak weak weak defense and a hole to run through.The other 5 carries for 11 yards is worrisome to say the least. He'll be great if they can get him in space, but I wouldn't bet on him being an everydown back any time soon.

5 for 11 stinks. It's not like Lendale did much better than that.The point the Titans have made time and time again is that if they can get him in the right situation, he's gone. That was true against the Rams. This is exactly why Heimerdinger is working up ways to get him in "the right situation"-lining him up wide, in the slot, RB wherever.

The other point the Titans have made is that he excites everyone. Look at their rushing stats for the game AFTER he broke that big one vs before. He fired up the team.

I imagine Fisher and Heimerdinger are working overtime now to find as many ways as possible to get this kid in the right spot.

I don't really understand what you're saying here, but if you're going to go in this direction:5 for 11 --> 2.2 yards per carry

Lendale rushed 6 times for 33 yards --> 5.5 yards per carry. That's a pretty big difference, and it's hard to fathom how you can say "not much better" than 2.2 yds per carry.

1 - Everybody in this discussion knows that 6 carries is not enough to determine anything. So stop trying to use yards per carry in the pre-season as a relevant stat.

2 - In my league, we get to count every yard a running back makes. If you guys are in leagues that don't count the longest one, then I guess he was 5-11. Otherwise he was 6-77 or something with a TD.

3 - As others have mentioned, the sheet eating grin on the coaching staff's faces told me that they knew this was coming, and they know it's coming a lot more. They love him, the team loves him, and they are going to get him the ball.

4 - Most running backs don't score a TD on that play. His speed is an absolute difference maker.

5 - Jason Wood's post 2 up from here is absolutely fantastic, and convinced me even more that the team does not view Fatdale as their Eddie George.

 

[Liquid Tension]

EBF (and others) - have you seen this article on combine stats? In the last paragraph Barnwell talks about McFadden and says this: "Complaints about his weight or body mass index (BMI) being too low can be ignored, since neither has any sort of relationship with NFL success."

I'm not trying to tell you you're wrong because I found an article that argues against you. I'm just wondering if you had seen it and/or had a response to that argument.

I haven't seen it and I disagree with his statement.

But after reading it what is your take?I do think using weight with the 40 time is a useful tool

 

[Banger]

All this great news really sux for those of us with a dynasty/keeper draft later this month. He was a decent possibility to drop down to the 2nd half of the 1st but with all this hype his value is sky rocketing.....

 

[Liquid Tension]

EBF, I liked both your posts (that I have read so far) regarding Johnson and your concern of his BMI. I also recognize the difference is legs strength of a guy like MJD and Reggie Bush. Do you have the BMI's of all these guys and Westbrook along with Bradshaw of the Giants. Bradshaw appears to be a guy in similar stature.

Thanks

This is something I've posted a few times this offseason:

I just compiled a quick list of BMI scores for the top 30 RBs in my PPR league. I got all of my heights and weights from NFL.com and used a BMI calculator from the following link: http://www.nhlbisupport.com/bmi/.

The results:

Brian Westbrook - 29.1

LaDainian Tomlinson - 31.7

Clinton Portis - 31.1

Joseph Addai - 29.8

Adrian Peterson - 28.6

Jamal Lewis - 34.2

Frank Gore - 32.9

Marion Barber - 30.0

Willis McGahee - 31.5

Earnest Graham - 33.2

Reggie Bush - 27.5

Maurice Drew - 32.6

Edgerrin James - 29.8

Kenny Watson - 29.6

Steven Jackson - 29.7

Marshawn Lynch - 30.0

Ryan Grant - 29.6

LenDale White - 31.0

Chester Taylor - 29.7

Willie Parker - 30.0

Brandon Jacobs - 32.1

Thomas Jones - 30.8

Ronnie Brown - 31.5

Justin Fargas - 29.0

Adrian Peterson II - 30.1

Fred Taylor - 30.1

Kevin Jones - 30.9

Warrick Dunn - 27.6

DeShaun Foster - 30.1

DeAngelo Williams - 32.0

High: Jamal Lewis 34.2

Low: Reggie Bush 27.5

Average: 30.5

27 out of 30 RBs were between 28.6 and 33.2. That means 90% of the top 30 RBs in 2007 had a BMI between 28.6 and 33.2.

Note that the above numbers were compiled using NFL.com's listed heights and weights, which are not completely accurate. A lot of people claim that Brian Westbrook and Chris Johnson have similar builds because Westbrook is listed at 5'10" 203 and Johnson is listed at 5'11" and 200. If these numbers were accurate then Westbrook would have a 29.1 BMI and Johnson would have a 27.9 BMI. But those numbers aren't accurate. Brian Westbrook isn't 5'10". At the combine he was 5'8.3" and 200 pounds. That's good for a BMI of 30.1, which is barely below the league average for a top 30 back. Westbrook isn't small. He's just short. Johnson was 5'11" and 197 pounds, which is good for a BMI of 27.5. That's lower than everyone on my list except Reggie Bush. And guess what? Reggie Bush's actual combine size was 5'10.7" and 201 pounds for a BMI of 28.3. So Chris Johnson is actually smaller than any of these top 30 RBs. Unless he bulks up considerably, he is probably a RBBC type for life.As for Ahmad Bradshaw, he was 5'9.4" and 198 pounds at the combine. That's good for a BMI of 28.9, which is a little lower than you like to see.

For reference, here's this year's top rookies using actual heights and weights:

Jonathan Stewart - 33.5

Rashard Mendenhall - 32.2

Tashard Choice - 30.5

Ray Rice - 30.3

Ryan Torain - 29.9

Felix Jones - 29.6

Steve Slaton - 29.0

Kevin Smith - 28.5

Matt Forte - 28.4

Jamaal Charles - 27.9

Darren McFadden - 27.7

Chris Johnson - 27.5

What do you use as a correct measure of guys height and weight? I see so many different sizes and weights for the same guys? What is generally accepted as the "bible" for accuracy?

 

[Bri]

What did LenDale White do last year that warrants his keeping the job over a more talented youngster? His only real attribute was the ability to stay healthy enough to handled 300+ carries. The guy averaged 3.7 yards per rush last season, and scored a whopping 7 TDs on 303 carries. Those are hardly the kind of metrics that imply job security IMHO.

Of the six RBs who logged 300+ carries last year, LenDale had the 2nd worst YPR (3.7) [second worst to Thomas Jones]

For a bit more perspective, there have been 48 instances of 300+ carry RBs in the last five seasons. White's YPR ranks 43rd out of 48. His 164.2 fantasy points ranks 45th out of 48. The guy did nothing last year but log 300 carries; the definition of a compiler.

White will still get touches because the Titans would be silly to hand Chris Johnson 20+ touches right out of the gate. But Johnson will be the more productive fantasy back in PPR leagues, and they'll be neck and neck in traditional redrafts IMHO.

Odd that you left out 1110 yards rushing in his first year starting, almost seemed to dance around it.

Sorry, I didn't think I had to do the math. If you know his carries (which I mention) and his YPC (which I mention), you get his yardage.The Eddie George example is an interesting one. I can certainly see the comparison there in terms of having a plodding YPR. Big difference though is that George was worked to the bone. That's not today's NFL. And we've had both Jeff Fisher and 'Dinger talk about using multiple backs this year, you didn't see that kind of talk back in George's day.

George was a fantasy commodity because he got 350 carries AND turned himself into an excellent receiver. If you think LenDale is going to get 350 carries and also become a dynamic receiver, more power to you.

Before we go TOO far with the Eddie George comparison though, let's consider something:

Eddie George -- Drafted 1st round, 1996 draft
1997 -- Zero RBs drafted
1998 -- Zero RBs drafted
1999 -- Zero RBs drafted
2000 -- Mike Green, 7th rounder, drafted
2001 -- Dan Alexander, 6th round FULLBACK, drafted
2002 -- Zero RBs drafted
2003 -- Zero RBs draftedOver Eddie George's ENTIRE CAREER AS A OILER/TITAN, the team drafted two other RBs, a 7th rounder who never made an impact and a 6th round fullback. Think about that, the team never even drafted someone to back him up.

You're seriously trying to compare that to LenDale's situation?

LenDale White -- Drafted 2nd round, 2006 draft
2006 -- Quinton Ganther, 7th rounder, drafted
2007 -- Chris Henry, 2nd rounder, drafted
2008 -- Chris Johnson, 1st rounder, draftedYep...seems like a representative comparison of what Fisher and Dinger have planned. :(

Jason, I'm lovin' Chris Johnson. I think he'll steal Lendale's job by the end of 2008 if not sooner. Your post was about Lendale in 2007 and I sorely disagree with that. For whatever reason, the fatdale stuff, not being Reggie, not the super duper talent some expect from USC...for some reason people around here are down on him. IMO it's quite unfair and maybe even unprecedented. Lendale didn't start a game in 2006, not one.

I sure can't recall a young RB getting picked on around here for getting 1100 yards his first year starting. It's never fit with me, still makes little sense to me.

The drafted RBs could be explained alot of ways. While statistically some guys(like Doug or Chase) have gone back to show that it isn't becoming a 2 RB league, that doesn't mean we haven't heard coaches say something like "in this day and age you need a real good backup" or somesuch. IIRC Wade Phillips could have/should have/but didn't put down Julius when Marion began starting but instead said something like that vague quote I just mentioned.

I've noticed Fisher seems to want something else from his RBs ever since Jarrett Payton. Can't put my finger on what it is but my guess is Sweetness' boy reminded Fisher of all that he offerred in his prime and Fisher is looking for those qualities. I've emailed some other folks you and I respect and discussed this and I can tell you I'm not alone in my thinking. Jarrett stirred something up.

I don't put much stock in Quinton in the 7th round as being a slight on Lendale, let's dismiss that one.

Henry and Johnson have wicked speed. Lendale doesn't.

Few years back, Jonathan Smith was a very good back in NFLE, may have led NFLE in rushing IIRC. He got hurt and was pretty much done. (note there were actually two jonathan smith's one goes by Mckenzie and played for KC, he wasn't as good)

There was a guy that went to Denver Damien Nash. Wasn't he a 3rd rounder or well about middle of the draft?

Chris Brown was phenomenal many times when he got 100 yards or more. It wasn't just a good game but, he really looked like an excellent back when he was "hot".

Travis Henry had his moments in Buffalo, Tennessee, and in Denver.

There was that fullback that was a pretty good RB in college too. He's still in the league. On Denver now maybe? oh Troy Fleming

Fisher hasn't been satisfied in quite some time. No back did enough to make Fisher say he's going to hitch his wagon to this guy and stop looking. I'd guess I went back 5,6,7 years or so. That's not to say some of them haven't had terrific games or even very good seasons. Chris had 1000 at an OK age where some coach might've said he's worth a shot. Travis had 1200 in less than 300 carries which is something of an accomplishment in Tennessee. Lendale's 1100 last year. Which brings me back to Sweetness and his son. Does Fisher need to be told there isn't another Walter Payton? Are Lendale's toughness and grit on grind it out carries and Chris Johnson's speed and grace while running are those two a combo that comes close to Sweetness in his mind?

1996 23 HOU RB 16 16 335 1368 8 76 4.1 1997* 24 TEN RB 16 16 357 1399 6 30 3.9 1998* 25 TEN RB 16 16 348 1294 5 37 3.7 1999* 26 TEN RB 16 16 320 1304 9 40 4.1 2000*+ 27 TEN RB 16 16 403 1509 14 35 3.7 2001 28 TEN RB 16 16 315 939 5 27 3.0 2002 29 TEN RB 16 16 343 1165 12 35 3.4 2003 30 TEN RB 16 16 312 1031 5 27 3.3 2007 23 TEN RB 16 16 303 1110 7 28 3.7see above, he's got a guy in Lendale doing a very very good Eddie George imitation. Picture Lendale's stats as a year for Eddie. It would mesh up just fine and not be noticable.Fisher wants more now though and an Eddie imitation isn't enough.

 

[Jason Wood]

What did LenDale White do last year that warrants his keeping the job over a more talented youngster? His only real attribute was the ability to stay healthy enough to handled 300+ carries. The guy averaged 3.7 yards per rush last season, and scored a whopping 7 TDs on 303 carries. Those are hardly the kind of metrics that imply job security IMHO.

Of the six RBs who logged 300+ carries last year, LenDale had the 2nd worst YPR (3.7) [second worst to Thomas Jones]

For a bit more perspective, there have been 48 instances of 300+ carry RBs in the last five seasons. White's YPR ranks 43rd out of 48. His 164.2 fantasy points ranks 45th out of 48. The guy did nothing last year but log 300 carries; the definition of a compiler.

White will still get touches because the Titans would be silly to hand Chris Johnson 20+ touches right out of the gate. But Johnson will be the more productive fantasy back in PPR leagues, and they'll be neck and neck in traditional redrafts IMHO.

Odd that you left out 1110 yards rushing in his first year starting, almost seemed to dance around it.

Sorry, I didn't think I had to do the math. If you know his carries (which I mention) and his YPC (which I mention), you get his yardage.The Eddie George example is an interesting one. I can certainly see the comparison there in terms of having a plodding YPR. Big difference though is that George was worked to the bone. That's not today's NFL. And we've had both Jeff Fisher and 'Dinger talk about using multiple backs this year, you didn't see that kind of talk back in George's day.

George was a fantasy commodity because he got 350 carries AND turned himself into an excellent receiver. If you think LenDale is going to get 350 carries and also become a dynamic receiver, more power to you.

Before we go TOO far with the Eddie George comparison though, let's consider something:

Eddie George -- Drafted 1st round, 1996 draft
1997 -- Zero RBs drafted
1998 -- Zero RBs drafted
1999 -- Zero RBs drafted
2000 -- Mike Green, 7th rounder, drafted
2001 -- Dan Alexander, 6th round FULLBACK, drafted
2002 -- Zero RBs drafted
2003 -- Zero RBs draftedOver Eddie George's ENTIRE CAREER AS A OILER/TITAN, the team drafted two other RBs, a 7th rounder who never made an impact and a 6th round fullback. Think about that, the team never even drafted someone to back him up.

You're seriously trying to compare that to LenDale's situation?

LenDale White -- Drafted 2nd round, 2006 draft
2006 -- Quinton Ganther, 7th rounder, drafted
2007 -- Chris Henry, 2nd rounder, drafted
2008 -- Chris Johnson, 1st rounder, draftedYep...seems like a representative comparison of what Fisher and Dinger have planned.

Jason, I'm lovin' Chris Johnson. I think he'll steal Lendale's job by the end of 2008 if not sooner. Your post was about Lendale in 2007 and I sorely disagree with that. For whatever reason, the fatdale stuff, not being Reggie, not the super duper talent some expect from USC...for some reason people around here are down on him. IMO it's quite unfair and maybe even unprecedented. Lendale didn't start a game in 2006, not one.

I sure can't recall a young RB getting picked on around here for getting 1100 yards his first year starting. It's never fit with me, still makes little sense to me.

The drafted RBs could be explained alot of ways. While statistically some guys(like Doug or Chase) have gone back to show that it isn't becoming a 2 RB league, that doesn't mean we haven't heard coaches say something like "in this day and age you need a real good backup" or somesuch. IIRC Wade Phillips could have/should have/but didn't put down Julius when Marion began starting but instead said something like that vague quote I just mentioned.

I've noticed Fisher seems to want something else from his RBs ever since Jarrett Payton. Can't put my finger on what it is but my guess is Sweetness' boy reminded Fisher of all that he offerred in his prime and Fisher is looking for those qualities. I've emailed some other folks you and I respect and discussed this and I can tell you I'm not alone in my thinking. Jarrett stirred something up.

I don't put much stock in Quinton in the 7th round as being a slight on Lendale, let's dismiss that one.

Henry and Johnson have wicked speed. Lendale doesn't.

Few years back, Jonathan Smith was a very good back in NFLE, may have led NFLE in rushing IIRC. He got hurt and was pretty much done. (note there were actually two jonathan smith's one goes by Mckenzie and played for KC, he wasn't as good)

There was a guy that went to Denver Damien Nash. Wasn't he a 3rd rounder or well about middle of the draft?

Chris Brown was phenomenal many times when he got 100 yards or more. It wasn't just a good game but, he really looked like an excellent back when he was "hot".

Travis Henry had his moments in Buffalo, Tennessee, and in Denver.

There was that fullback that was a pretty good RB in college too. He's still in the league. On Denver now maybe? oh Troy Fleming

Fisher hasn't been satisfied in quite some time. No back did enough to make Fisher say he's going to hitch his wagon to this guy and stop looking. I'd guess I went back 5,6,7 years or so. That's not to say some of them haven't had terrific games or even very good seasons. Chris had 1000 at an OK age where some coach might've said he's worth a shot. Travis had 1200 in less than 300 carries which is something of an accomplishment in Tennessee. Lendale's 1100 last year. Which brings me back to Sweetness and his son. Does Fisher need to be told there isn't another Walter Payton? Are Lendale's toughness and grit on grind it out carries and Chris Johnson's speed and grace while running are those two a combo that comes close to Sweetness in his mind?

1996 23 HOU RB 16 16 335 1368 8 76 4.1 1997* 24 TEN RB 16 16 357 1399 6 30 3.9 1998* 25 TEN RB 16 16 348 1294 5 37 3.7 1999* 26 TEN RB 16 16 320 1304 9 40 4.1 2000*+ 27 TEN RB 16 16 403 1509 14 35 3.7 2001 28 TEN RB 16 16 315 939 5 27 3.0 2002 29 TEN RB 16 16 343 1165 12 35 3.4 2003 30 TEN RB 16 16 312 1031 5 27 3.3 2007 23 TEN RB 16 16 303 1110 7 28 3.7see above, he's got a guy in Lendale doing a very very good Eddie George imitation. Picture Lendale's stats as a year for Eddie. It would mesh up just fine and not be noticable.Fisher wants more now though and an Eddie imitation isn't enough.

I think at the end of the day we're coming at this from two different directions but winding up in the same place.

 

[Colin Dowling]

I haven't read all the in depth discussion of BMI and 40's and such in the last few pages, but I'll say this: Anyone who was unimpressed with the touchdown is Aside from the fact he absolutely torched the DB, the first 8 yards of that run were ridiculous. Say what you want about the DL not going hard and not being any good (point given) but the fact that none of the linebackers even moved towards him is impressive. No, he won't run through the line with a full head of steam every carry, but the one or two or three times this season that he does get in to the secondary, he'll be in the endzone. Now add in that it has been close to two decades since the Titans/Oilers had ANYONE that was a threat to go the distance from anywhere on the field...

 

[EBF]

EBF, I liked both your posts (that I have read so far) regarding Johnson and your concern of his BMI. I also recognize the difference is legs strength of a guy like MJD and Reggie Bush. Do you have the BMI's of all these guys and Westbrook along with Bradshaw of the Giants. Bradshaw appears to be a guy in similar stature.

Thanks

This is something I've posted a few times this offseason:

I just compiled a quick list of BMI scores for the top 30 RBs in my PPR league. I got all of my heights and weights from NFL.com and used a BMI calculator from the following link: http://www.nhlbisupport.com/bmi/.

The results:

Brian Westbrook - 29.1

LaDainian Tomlinson - 31.7

Clinton Portis - 31.1

Joseph Addai - 29.8

Adrian Peterson - 28.6

Jamal Lewis - 34.2

Frank Gore - 32.9

Marion Barber - 30.0

Willis McGahee - 31.5

Earnest Graham - 33.2

Reggie Bush - 27.5

Maurice Drew - 32.6

Edgerrin James - 29.8

Kenny Watson - 29.6

Steven Jackson - 29.7

Marshawn Lynch - 30.0

Ryan Grant - 29.6

LenDale White - 31.0

Chester Taylor - 29.7

Willie Parker - 30.0

Brandon Jacobs - 32.1

Thomas Jones - 30.8

Ronnie Brown - 31.5

Justin Fargas - 29.0

Adrian Peterson II - 30.1

Fred Taylor - 30.1

Kevin Jones - 30.9

Warrick Dunn - 27.6

DeShaun Foster - 30.1

DeAngelo Williams - 32.0

High: Jamal Lewis 34.2

Low: Reggie Bush 27.5

Average: 30.5

27 out of 30 RBs were between 28.6 and 33.2. That means 90% of the top 30 RBs in 2007 had a BMI between 28.6 and 33.2.

Note that the above numbers were compiled using NFL.com's listed heights and weights, which are not completely accurate. A lot of people claim that Brian Westbrook and Chris Johnson have similar builds because Westbrook is listed at 5'10" 203 and Johnson is listed at 5'11" and 200. If these numbers were accurate then Westbrook would have a 29.1 BMI and Johnson would have a 27.9 BMI. But those numbers aren't accurate. Brian Westbrook isn't 5'10". At the combine he was 5'8.3" and 200 pounds. That's good for a BMI of 30.1, which is barely below the league average for a top 30 back. Westbrook isn't small. He's just short. Johnson was 5'11" and 197 pounds, which is good for a BMI of 27.5. That's lower than everyone on my list except Reggie Bush. And guess what? Reggie Bush's actual combine size was 5'10.7" and 201 pounds for a BMI of 28.3. So Chris Johnson is actually smaller than any of these top 30 RBs. Unless he bulks up considerably, he is probably a RBBC type for life.As for Ahmad Bradshaw, he was 5'9.4" and 198 pounds at the combine. That's good for a BMI of 28.9, which is a little lower than you like to see.

For reference, here's this year's top rookies using actual heights and weights:

Jonathan Stewart - 33.5

Rashard Mendenhall - 32.2

Tashard Choice - 30.5

Ray Rice - 30.3

Ryan Torain - 29.9

Felix Jones - 29.6

Steve Slaton - 29.0

Kevin Smith - 28.5

Matt Forte - 28.4

Jamaal Charles - 27.9

Darren McFadden - 27.7

Chris Johnson - 27.5

What do you use as a correct measure of guys height and weight? I see so many different sizes and weights for the same guys? What is generally accepted as the "bible" for accuracy?

I used NFL Draft Scout for the prospect numbers. As far as I know, they have the exact heights and weights taken from the combine. The list of NFL players was compiled from heights and weights found on NFL.com. I've posted the same list using NFL Draft Scout combine numbers in the BMI thread.

 

[Michael Fox Fan]

Did anyone watch the Titans game? He is going to be good. Very good.

A 66 yard TD where no one touched him against a terrible defense isn't super impressive. It was a weak weak weak defense and a hole to run through.The other 5 carries for 11 yards is worrisome to say the least. He'll be great if they can get him in space, but I wouldn't bet on him being an everydown back any time soon.

5 for 11 stinks. It's not like Lendale did much better than that.The point the Titans have made time and time again is that if they can get him in the right situation, he's gone. That was true against the Rams. This is exactly why Heimerdinger is working up ways to get him in "the right situation"-lining him up wide, in the slot, RB wherever.

The other point the Titans have made is that he excites everyone. Look at their rushing stats for the game AFTER he broke that big one vs before. He fired up the team.

I imagine Fisher and Heimerdinger are working overtime now to find as many ways as possible to get this kid in the right spot.

I don't really understand what you're saying here, but if you're going to go in this direction:5 for 11 --> 2.2 yards per carry

Lendale rushed 6 times for 33 yards --> 5.5 yards per carry. That's a pretty big difference, and it's hard to fathom how you can say "not much better" than 2.2 yds per carry.

1 - Everybody in this discussion knows that 6 carries is not enough to determine anything. So stop trying to use yards per carry in the pre-season as a relevant stat.

2 - In my league, we get to count every yard a running back makes. If you guys are in leagues that don't count the longest one, then I guess he was 5-11. Otherwise he was 6-77 or something with a TD.

3 - As others have mentioned, the sheet eating grin on the coaching staff's faces told me that they knew this was coming, and they know it's coming a lot more. They love him, the team loves him, and they are going to get him the ball.

4 - Most running backs don't score a TD on that play. His speed is an absolute difference maker.

5 - Jason Wood's post 2 up from here is absolutely fantastic, and convinced me even more that the team does not view Fatdale as their Eddie George.

tribe - stop lecturing me on a simplistic concept such as "data credibility". I'm a credentialed actuary, so this isn't news to me.If you bothered reading the posts you quoted, you would see that I specifically was responding to Bri's post and even said "if you're going to go in this direction". HE called out the 5 carries for 11 yds and HE compared it to Lendale White's performance.

Get your story straight before calling me out.

 

[Captain Spaulding]

The only thing I'm taking from the preseason game is that Chris Johnson has demonstrated that he is NOT a total bum at running back but probably can find a career playing RB in the NFL. Starter material, RBBC material or 3rd down back is still TBD. That's all for now.

Check back in after a few more pre-season games to at least get some trends on this guy, then check back in at mid-season to see how he stacks up against NFL starting defenders going full speed.

 

[tribecalledjeff]

Did anyone watch the Titans game? He is going to be good. Very good.

A 66 yard TD where no one touched him against a terrible defense isn't super impressive. It was a weak weak weak defense and a hole to run through.The other 5 carries for 11 yards is worrisome to say the least. He'll be great if they can get him in space, but I wouldn't bet on him being an everydown back any time soon.

5 for 11 stinks. It's not like Lendale did much better than that.The point the Titans have made time and time again is that if they can get him in the right situation, he's gone. That was true against the Rams. This is exactly why Heimerdinger is working up ways to get him in "the right situation"-lining him up wide, in the slot, RB wherever.

The other point the Titans have made is that he excites everyone. Look at their rushing stats for the game AFTER he broke that big one vs before. He fired up the team.

I imagine Fisher and Heimerdinger are working overtime now to find as many ways as possible to get this kid in the right spot.

I don't really understand what you're saying here, but if you're going to go in this direction:5 for 11 --> 2.2 yards per carry

Lendale rushed 6 times for 33 yards --> 5.5 yards per carry. That's a pretty big difference, and it's hard to fathom how you can say "not much better" than 2.2 yds per carry.

1 - Everybody in this discussion knows that 6 carries is not enough to determine anything. So stop trying to use yards per carry in the pre-season as a relevant stat.

2 - In my league, we get to count every yard a running back makes. If you guys are in leagues that don't count the longest one, then I guess he was 5-11. Otherwise he was 6-77 or something with a TD.

3 - As others have mentioned, the sheet eating grin on the coaching staff's faces told me that they knew this was coming, and they know it's coming a lot more. They love him, the team loves him, and they are going to get him the ball.

4 - Most running backs don't score a TD on that play. His speed is an absolute difference maker.

5 - Jason Wood's post 2 up from here is absolutely fantastic, and convinced me even more that the team does not view Fatdale as their Eddie George.

tribe - stop lecturing me on a simplistic concept such as "data credibility". I'm a credentialed actuary, so this isn't news to me.If you bothered reading the posts you quoted, you would see that I specifically was responding to Bri's post and even said "if you're going to go in this direction". HE called out the 5 carries for 11 yds and HE compared it to Lendale White's performance.

Get your story straight before calling me out.

I was more replying to the thread in general, just happened to hit reply to your post since it was the most recent. Sorry if I offended you, it wasn't meant to in any way. I will add, however, that if you are going to yell at someone for lecturing you on a simplistic concept, you should probably learn that the period at the end of a sentence goes inside the quotation marks. I wouldn't even have pointed it out, but I am amused by people that call others out for what they consider stupid comments or mistakes, only to make one of their own in the process.

 

[tombonneau]

I will add, however, that if you are going to yell at someone for lecturing you on a simplistic concept, you should probably learn that the period at the end of a sentence goes inside the quotation marks. I wouldn't even have pointed it out, but I am amused by people that call others out for what they consider stupid comments or mistakes, only to make one of their own in the process.

How do you know he's not British?

 

[Fear & Loathing]

What did LenDale White do last year that warrants his keeping the job over a more talented youngster? His only real attribute was the ability to stay healthy enough to handled 300+ carries. The guy averaged 3.7 yards per rush last season, and scored a whopping 7 TDs on 303 carries. Those are hardly the kind of metrics that imply job security IMHO.

Of the six RBs who logged 300+ carries last year, LenDale had the 2nd worst YPR (3.7) [second worst to Thomas Jones]

For a bit more perspective, there have been 48 instances of 300+ carry RBs in the last five seasons. White's YPR ranks 43rd out of 48. His 164.2 fantasy points ranks 45th out of 48. The guy did nothing last year but log 300 carries; the definition of a compiler.

White will still get touches because the Titans would be silly to hand Chris Johnson 20+ touches right out of the gate. But Johnson will be the more productive fantasy back in PPR leagues, and they'll be neck and neck in traditional redrafts IMHO.

Odd that you left out 1110 yards rushing in his first year starting, almost seemed to dance around it.

Sorry, I didn't think I had to do the math. If you know his carries (which I mention) and his YPC (which I mention), you get his yardage.The Eddie George example is an interesting one. I can certainly see the comparison there in terms of having a plodding YPR. Big difference though is that George was worked to the bone. That's not today's NFL. And we've had both Jeff Fisher and 'Dinger talk about using multiple backs this year, you didn't see that kind of talk back in George's day.

George was a fantasy commodity because he got 350 carries AND turned himself into an excellent receiver. If you think LenDale is going to get 350 carries and also become a dynamic receiver, more power to you.

Before we go TOO far with the Eddie George comparison though, let's consider something:

Eddie George -- Drafted 1st round, 1996 draft
1997 -- Zero RBs drafted
1998 -- Zero RBs drafted
1999 -- Zero RBs drafted
2000 -- Mike Green, 7th rounder, drafted
2001 -- Dan Alexander, 6th round FULLBACK, drafted
2002 -- Zero RBs drafted
2003 -- Zero RBs draftedOver Eddie George's ENTIRE CAREER AS A OILER/TITAN, the team drafted two other RBs, a 7th rounder who never made an impact and a 6th round fullback. Think about that, the team never even drafted someone to back him up.

You're seriously trying to compare that to LenDale's situation?

LenDale White -- Drafted 2nd round, 2006 draft
2006 -- Quinton Ganther, 7th rounder, drafted
2007 -- Chris Henry, 2nd rounder, drafted
2008 -- Chris Johnson, 1st rounder, draftedYep...seems like a representative comparison of what Fisher and Dinger have planned.

I'm surprised how people here still have their head in sand on the Titans RB picture. I don't know if they're doing to be contrarians, or if they didn't see White play last year, or if they're not keeping up with news out of Titans camp this summer. Whatever the case, those in the "White to be workhorse/Johnson to be relegated" camp are in for a rude awakening.

I'm not calling him Adrian Peterson, but it's obvious at this point that Johnson is going to take the league by storm early on. I mean just take the pulse of that training camp. Oh well, it's nice to take solace in the fact that there was a very vocal minority of contrarians on these boards hammering away at Peterson's expected production last season as well -- you know, Chester Taylor is the starter, Peterson is injury prone, runs too high, isn't all that special, blah blah blah. . . .

Difference-making talent doesn't come along all that often. It would be a shame to miss out on the anticipation factor only because you refused to see it.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

The only thing I'm taking from the preseason game is that Chris Johnson has demonstrated that he is NOT a total bum at running back but probably can find a career playing RB in the NFL. Starter material, RBBC material or 3rd down back is still TBD. That's all for now. Check back in after a few more pre-season games to at least get some trends on this guy, then check back in at mid-season to see how he stacks up against NFL starting defenders going full speed.

Right. And miss out on drafting him. Anticipation has no place in fantasy football for you? It must suck always being behind the times, but it does sometimes have it's advantages. Mark Twain: "If the end of the world was coming, I'd move to Cincinnati because they'll find out about it 10 years after everyone else does."

 

[Riffraff]

Just a few random thoughts about comments here:

1. You can't take out his big run and only count his others. It's like taking a QB's completions away and complaining that all his incompletions averaged 0 yards per attempt. Just plain stupid. Take the good and the bad, all yards and TDs count.

2. Complaining that it was the St Louis defense and not a stronger defense. You play the teams on your schedule, no others. Sure, the Rams may stink, but it's still the only other team that was on the field. Should be tempered expectations, but not complete dismissal.

3. BMI is a tool, not the whole truth. Everything in moderation.

4. Johnson had the "can't miss video clip of the week." Only so many of them to go around in the pre-season, be glad he got one of them. Don't expect it every week. Probably won't happen the rest of the pre-season.

5. Johnson showed he has NFL quality ability. It only took him 1 half of football to flash the ability. Can't complain about that even if you are a hater.

 

[Native]

The only thing I'm taking from the preseason game is that Chris Johnson has demonstrated that he is NOT a total bum at running back but probably can find a career playing RB in the NFL. Starter material, RBBC material or 3rd down back is still TBD. That's all for now. Check back in after a few more pre-season games to at least get some trends on this guy, then check back in at mid-season to see how he stacks up against NFL starting defenders going full speed.

Does your league draft in midseason?

 

[Bri]

Did anyone watch the Titans game? He is going to be good. Very good.

A 66 yard TD where no one touched him against a terrible defense isn't super impressive. It was a weak weak weak defense and a hole to run through.The other 5 carries for 11 yards is worrisome to say the least. He'll be great if they can get him in space, but I wouldn't bet on him being an everydown back any time soon.

5 for 11 stinks. It's not like Lendale did much better than that.The point the Titans have made time and time again is that if they can get him in the right situation, he's gone. That was true against the Rams. This is exactly why Heimerdinger is working up ways to get him in "the right situation"-lining him up wide, in the slot, RB wherever.

The other point the Titans have made is that he excites everyone. Look at their rushing stats for the game AFTER he broke that big one vs before. He fired up the team.

I imagine Fisher and Heimerdinger are working overtime now to find as many ways as possible to get this kid in the right spot.

I don't really understand what you're saying here, but if you're going to go in this direction:5 for 11 --> 2.2 yards per carry

Lendale rushed 6 times for 33 yards --> 5.5 yards per carry. That's a pretty big difference, and it's hard to fathom how you can say "not much better" than 2.2 yds per carry.

Sorry for the late replyI believed Lendale was 5 for 12 at the point when Chris was 5 for 11.

I looked at play by play and I'm wrong.

 

[switz]

1. You can't take out his big run and only count his others. It's like taking a QB's completions away and complaining that all his incompletions averaged 0 yards per attempt. Just plain stupid. Take the good and the bad, all yards and TDs count.

Don't think anyone is trying to eliminate that run, but looking at ALL his runs to determine how successful he will be during the regular season. The problem is if he's not successful regularly, he's going to be limited to gimmicky type plays, and then once defenses figure the gimmick plays out, he's not going to be very successful at all.Bottom line is, he's probably not going to break a 66 yard TD every week, with two safeties out of position, and a wide open hole to run through. So then if on most weeks he can only average 2-3 YPC, are you going to start him? See Reggie Bush a la 2006 and 2007 if you can't see what I'm talking about.Now I'm of the opinion Bush can turn it around this year, but I also think Bush > Johnson.

 

[Chunky Soup]

1. You can't take out his big run and only count his others. It's like taking a QB's completions away and complaining that all his incompletions averaged 0 yards per attempt. Just plain stupid. Take the good and the bad, all yards and TDs count.

Don't think anyone is trying to eliminate that run, but looking at ALL his runs to determine how successful he will be during the regular season. The problem is if he's not successful regularly, he's going to be limited to gimmicky type plays, and then once defenses figure the gimmick plays out, he's not going to be very successful at all.Bottom line is, he's probably not going to break a 66 yard TD every week, with two safeties out of position, and a wide open hole to run through. So then if on most weeks he can only average 2-3 YPC, are you going to start him? See Reggie Bush a la 2006 and 2007 if you can't see what I'm talking about.

Now I'm of the opinion Bush can turn it around this year, but I also think Bush > Johnson.

I think you're drawing too much from the preseason game. What we could tell is that he was running the ball late in the second Q [edit] (yes, bad linemen, etc too), and broke off a run to make the play off the week. Awesome play, showed off his speed, and certainly his potential.Portis went 7 carries for 18 yards with a long of 11. Is he going to average 2-3 YPC, etc? No. Or at least we wouldn't deduce this about him for some reason.

 

[Riffraff]

See Reggie Bush a la 2006 and 2007 if you can't see what I'm talking about.

I see the Reggie Bush analogy. I used it before it was en vogue.For fantasy purposes, I only expect Johnson to get about 75% of what Bush gets in points. I hope for more, but don't expect it.

Johnson didn't cost a 1.01 rookie pick like Bush did. Johnson was just a guy you can get at the 1.07 pick (before this weekend). Value.

My comments about Johnson back in April, after I took him with the 1.07 pick:

1.07 RB Chris Johnson, TEN - Fastest player in the draft. Will be the lightning to Lendale's thunder. Tennessee loves to run the ball. Coaching staff is pretty good. Young likes to drop off passes creating open space for Johnson. He may very well be the best receiver on the Titans. RBush has nearly the same type of situation and ended up the #24 RB (a #2 RB). I'll hope for 75% of what RBush produces at the 1.07 spot (a nice #3 RB).

Article published today that confirms what I wrote yesterday. Rotoworld even used the Reggie Bush analogy. LOL

The Tennessean link is gone now, but it jived with what I wrote before the article was published. Ditto with Roto, my comments were before they posted theirs about being like Bush. I'm still holding the opinion I did 3+ months ago.

 

[Riffraff]

I think you're drawing too much from the preseason game. What we could tell is that he was running the ball late in the second half (yes, bad linemen, etc too), and broke off a run to make the play off the week. Awesome play, showed off his speed, and certainly his potential.

Portis went 7 carries for 18 yards with a long of 11. Is he going to average 2-3 YPC, etc? No. Or at least we wouldn't deduce this about him for some reason.

It was in the 2nd quarter, not half.

 

[RBM]

1. You can't take out his big run and only count his others. It's like taking a QB's completions away and complaining that all his incompletions averaged 0 yards per attempt. Just plain stupid. Take the good and the bad, all yards and TDs count.

Don't think anyone is trying to eliminate that run, but looking at ALL his runs to determine how successful he will be during the regular season. The problem is if he's not successful regularly, he's going to be limited to gimmicky type plays, and then once defenses figure the gimmick plays out, he's not going to be very successful at all.Bottom line is, he's probably not going to break a 66 yard TD every week, with two safeties out of position, and a wide open hole to run through. So then if on most weeks he can only average 2-3 YPC, are you going to start him? See Reggie Bush a la 2006 and 2007 if you can't see what I'm talking about.

Now I'm of the opinion Bush can turn it around this year, but I also think Bush > Johnson.

I think you're drawing too much from the preseason game. What we could tell is that he was running the ball late in the second half (yes, bad linemen, etc too), and broke off a run to make the play off the week. Awesome play, showed off his speed, and certainly his potential.Portis went 7 carries for 18 yards with a long of 11. Is he going to average 2-3 YPC, etc? No. Or at least we wouldn't deduce this about him for some reason.

Stop that. We know Portis is a big time running back in the NFL. What a bad comparison

 

[Burning Sensation]

1. You can't take out his big run and only count his others. It's like taking a QB's completions away and complaining that all his incompletions averaged 0 yards per attempt. Just plain stupid. Take the good and the bad, all yards and TDs count.

Don't think anyone is trying to eliminate that run, but looking at ALL his runs to determine how successful he will be during the regular season. The problem is if he's not successful regularly, he's going to be limited to gimmicky type plays, and then once defenses figure the gimmick plays out, he's not going to be very successful at all.Bottom line is, he's probably not going to break a 66 yard TD every week, with two safeties out of position, and a wide open hole to run through. So then if on most weeks he can only average 2-3 YPC, are you going to start him? See Reggie Bush a la 2006 and 2007 if you can't see what I'm talking about.

Now I'm of the opinion Bush can turn it around this year, but I also think Bush > Johnson.

I think you're drawing too much from the preseason game. What we could tell is that he was running the ball late in the second half (yes, bad linemen, etc too), and broke off a run to make the play off the week. Awesome play, showed off his speed, and certainly his potential.Portis went 7 carries for 18 yards with a long of 11. Is he going to average 2-3 YPC, etc? No. Or at least we wouldn't deduce this about him for some reason.

Stop that. We know Portis is a big time running back in the NFL. What a bad comparison

I think you are missing the point.

 

[switz]

Portis went 7 carries for 18 yards with a long of 11. Is he going to average 2-3 YPC, etc? No. Or at least we wouldn't deduce this about him for some reason.

Stop that. We know Portis is a big time running back in the NFL. What a bad comparison

Yes, it was a very bad example. We know what Portis can do already... we don't know what Johnson can do. Portis was also running in the first quarter versus first stringers in a vanilla offense. Portis also is known for not really trying much in the preseason.Johnson broke his big run in the second quarter versus second stringers who were out of position. And Johnson is obviously tryign to impress his team.

We'll see as the preseason goes by, but we know Portis isn't completely dependent on big plays to put up points. We don't know yet how Johnson will fare... I'm just saying when you look at his carries, 82% were for 2-3 yards.

 

[Burning Sensation]

1. You can't take out his big run and only count his others. It's like taking a QB's completions away and complaining that all his incompletions averaged 0 yards per attempt. Just plain stupid. Take the good and the bad, all yards and TDs count.

Don't think anyone is trying to eliminate that run, but looking at ALL his runs to determine how successful he will be during the regular season. The problem is if he's not successful regularly, he's going to be limited to gimmicky type plays, and then once defenses figure the gimmick plays out, he's not going to be very successful at all.Bottom line is, he's probably not going to break a 66 yard TD every week, with two safeties out of position, and a wide open hole to run through. So then if on most weeks he can only average 2-3 YPC, are you going to start him? See Reggie Bush a la 2006 and 2007 if you can't see what I'm talking about.

Now I'm of the opinion Bush can turn it around this year, but I also think Bush > Johnson.

That hole wasnt that wide open, he stutteed stepped while the seam opened at the line of scrimmage, then accelarated to top speed through the hole blowing by the LB's. The safeties were out of position because they didnt have any time to react. Like him or not, over 90% of the RB's in the league dont run for 66 yards on that play. Felix Jones definetly doesnt....just saying.

 

[SayWhat?]

We don't know yet how Johnson will fare... I'm just saying when you look at his carries, 82% were for 2-3 yards.

Oh my Lord the haters have made this thread nearly unreadable. "82% of his carries were for 2-3 yards?" Are you serious? He actually had runs of -1, 0, 3, 3, 6 and 66. Spin that whichever way you want, but he ended with 6 carries for 77 yards and a touchdown along with a catch for 14 yards (and was targeted on at least one other pass). He ran the ball hard and obviously had a chance to show off his ridiculous speed. It's not all that difficult to see that the Titans have pretty big plans in store for Chris Johnson. The only debate it seems at this point is what he'll do with the opportunity when the regular season arrives. Thus far, based on all the available training camp reports and the Titans first preseason game, he hasn't failed to live up to the hype.

 

[Milwaukees_best]

Chris johnson is a special player. Safetys are going to have a real tough time taking the correct angle on the guy because he accelerates so fast in and out of cuts. With guys like him it only takes one mistake on an angle and he is gone. The guy is going to touch the ball in the kicking game, passing game, and running game behind a great OLINE. he is going to be a safety valve for a heck of a running QB. He is going to be involved in option plays.

I think that as these new athletes come out there is no perfect study. These are all tools and the key is finding the right combo. I dont think that anyone is saying he is destined for failure because of his BMI, but they are saying that if your expecting 25 carries a game for a season, he isnt going to hold up as in his current build.

Draft Chris Johnson with confidence. Expect something similar to Maurice Jones Drew as the 2 teams have very similar builds and the 2 players will play similar roles in the offense in my opinion. There will be plenty of touches to go around in Tennessee. You never have to worry about Vince Young throwing the ball 40 times. For Dynasty leagues, Johnson easily has room to add some weight.

 

[switz]

1. You can't take out his big run and only count his others. It's like taking a QB's completions away and complaining that all his incompletions averaged 0 yards per attempt. Just plain stupid. Take the good and the bad, all yards and TDs count.

Don't think anyone is trying to eliminate that run, but looking at ALL his runs to determine how successful he will be during the regular season. The problem is if he's not successful regularly, he's going to be limited to gimmicky type plays, and then once defenses figure the gimmick plays out, he's not going to be very successful at all.Bottom line is, he's probably not going to break a 66 yard TD every week, with two safeties out of position, and a wide open hole to run through. So then if on most weeks he can only average 2-3 YPC, are you going to start him? See Reggie Bush a la 2006 and 2007 if you can't see what I'm talking about.

Now I'm of the opinion Bush can turn it around this year, but I also think Bush > Johnson.

That hole wasnt that wide open, he stutteed stepped while the seam opened at the line of scrimmage, then accelarated to top speed through the hole blowing by the LB's. The safeties were out of position because they didnt have any time to react. Like him or not, over 90% of the RB's in the league dont run for 66 yards on that play. Felix Jones definetly doesnt....just saying.

I could care less whether Felix Jones could or not... but to say the safeties were out of position because they didn't have time to react is laughable. They overreacted to the sweep. It didn't matter if Johnson ran a 4.3 or 4.5 he had nobody challenging him on that run.Again, as I've said all along, I'm not saying he sucks. I think he'll be a great COP back. I just don't see him being successful as a full time starter. His speed is only good if he can break a tackle at the line and get through it when there isn't a hole. Something he has yet to show in the NFL. Not saying he can't do it... just that a lot of people are overreacting to his 66 yard run, and ignoring his lackluster performance on the other carries.

 

[Liquid Tension]

Just a few random thoughts about comments here:1. You can't take out his big run and only count his others. It's like taking a QB's completions away and complaining that all his incompletions averaged 0 yards per attempt. Just plain stupid. Take the good and the bad, all yards and TDs count.2. Complaining that it was the St Louis defense and not a stronger defense. You play the teams on your schedule, no others. Sure, the Rams may stink, but it's still the only other team that was on the field. Should be tempered expectations, but not complete dismissal.3. BMI is a tool, not the whole truth. Everything in moderation.4. Johnson had the "can't miss video clip of the week." Only so many of them to go around in the pre-season, be glad he got one of them. Don't expect it every week. Probably won't happen the rest of the pre-season.5. Johnson showed he has NFL quality ability. It only took him 1 half of football to flash the ability. Can't complain about that even if you are a hater.

What is this? Perspective? Is that allowed here?

 

[Tyrion]

1. You can't take out his big run and only count his others. It's like taking a QB's completions away and complaining that all his incompletions averaged 0 yards per attempt. Just plain stupid. Take the good and the bad, all yards and TDs count.

Don't think anyone is trying to eliminate that run, but looking at ALL his runs to determine how successful he will be during the regular season. The problem is if he's not successful regularly, he's going to be limited to gimmicky type plays, and then once defenses figure the gimmick plays out, he's not going to be very successful at all.Bottom line is, he's probably not going to break a 66 yard TD every week, with two safeties out of position, and a wide open hole to run through. So then if on most weeks he can only average 2-3 YPC, are you going to start him? See Reggie Bush a la 2006 and 2007 if you can't see what I'm talking about.

Now I'm of the opinion Bush can turn it around this year, but I also think Bush > Johnson.

That hole wasnt that wide open, he stutteed stepped while the seam opened at the line of scrimmage, then accelarated to top speed through the hole blowing by the LB's. The safeties were out of position because they didnt have any time to react. Like him or not, over 90% of the RB's in the league dont run for 66 yards on that play. Felix Jones definetly doesnt....just saying.

I could care less whether Felix Jones could or not... but to say the safeties were out of position because they didn't have time to react is laughable. They overreacted to the sweep. It didn't matter if Johnson ran a 4.3 or 4.5 he had nobody challenging him on that run.Again, as I've said all along, I'm not saying he sucks. I think he'll be a great COP back. I just don't see him being successful as a full time starter. His speed is only good if he can break a tackle at the line and get through it when there isn't a hole. Something he has yet to show in the NFL. Not saying he can't do it... just that a lot of people are overreacting to his 66 yard run, and ignoring his lackluster performance on the other carries.

Not picking on either of you but they are both really fast and both showed good moves and ran away from defenders. Could they both be really good? Does one of them have to suck? Just saying it doesn't have to be a either/or situation. Chris having success does not mean Felix is not going to be just as good or the other way around.