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The Grossman that played against ARZ (1 Viewer)
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Dieselskid
Footballguy
As time goes on, this is the Grossman that will show up more often than not.
nflguru
Footballguy
I don't want to believe this, but its tough not to have it in the back of your mine from here forward.. He has been sharp most of the season (outside of the arz game)... Lots of throws high today and was also under a lot of pressure... I know he hurt himself last season by running, but it would be nice to see him take off at least once a game...
twistd
Footballguy
I agree that Grossman should have been pulled. I'm beginning to believe that Grossman is not a starting NFL QB. He has turned the ball over 10 times in the last 3 games. When he is bad, he is so bad that he can single-handedly lose the game for you. The Bears don't need a QB to throw 4 TDs a game. They have a decent running game and a really good D. They need a QB to manage the game and not do anything really stupid. Grossman can not be counted on to do that. If the Bears were an average team across the board they might need to win some games by having Grossman throw 3 TDs. But this team seems to be better off having a QB who just doesn't screw up. Griese fills that bill.Dieselskid said:
Mapmaker
Footballguy
Although he was drafted in 2003 this week-end's game was only his 16th played, so essentially your looking at a rookie QB that is bound to make rookie mistakes and bonehead plays .. he needs to learn to take better care of the ball and not panic in the face of heavy blitz packages ... he'll be Ok as a starting QB but he has a long ways to go before he should be annointed to the Hall of Fame.
bullitt
Footballguy
Although he was drafted in 2003 this week-end's game was only his 16th played, so essentially your looking at a rookie QB that is bound to make rookie mistakes and bonehead plays .. he needs to learn to take better care of the ball and not panic in the face of heavy blitz packages ... he'll be Ok as a starting QB but he has a long ways to go before he should be annointed to the Hall of Fame.
As is the case for every other QB in the NFL.
Urinal Mint
Footballguy
I think more time may actually be hurting Grossman. Now that he's finally forming a true body of work (on film), I think teams are learning how to scheme against him and lure him into poor throws. Hey may overcome this, but it stands to reason that his early success this year was due to a lack of history. He is obviously capable, but shows a real knack for making some bonehead throws.
I don't understand why they're asking Rex to win the game for them.
Run the ball. Keep your elite D fresh. Win the game.
With that D, you don't need to score 30, stop trying.
Lovie Smith has fallen in love with this high powered offense. Rex is not Manning. Bears offense isn't the Colts. It doesn't need to be. Stop chucking it 40 times a game.
If the Bears don't run it 40 times a game on the ground, the OC should be fired. Dilfer could have thrown it 35-40-45 times. Big Ben could have been tossing it 35+ times a game. But when your D is that good, you don't need to. Kill the clock, let your D nuke them, and go home with a 13-6 win. Ever Bears game I see, I get the impression they're trying to win a shootout.
It's only a shootout if you turn it over 5+ times giving the other team short field after short field. It's laughable that with TJ/Benson they aren't running a ball control offense. They made one long TD bomb to Berrian early in the year, and fell in love with it. It's over already. Go back to boring football and you'll have a much better shot in the playoffs.
Run the ball. Keep your elite D fresh. Win the game.
With that D, you don't need to score 30, stop trying.
Lovie Smith has fallen in love with this high powered offense. Rex is not Manning. Bears offense isn't the Colts. It doesn't need to be. Stop chucking it 40 times a game.
If the Bears don't run it 40 times a game on the ground, the OC should be fired. Dilfer could have thrown it 35-40-45 times. Big Ben could have been tossing it 35+ times a game. But when your D is that good, you don't need to. Kill the clock, let your D nuke them, and go home with a 13-6 win. Ever Bears game I see, I get the impression they're trying to win a shootout.
It's only a shootout if you turn it over 5+ times giving the other team short field after short field. It's laughable that with TJ/Benson they aren't running a ball control offense. They made one long TD bomb to Berrian early in the year, and fell in love with it. It's over already. Go back to boring football and you'll have a much better shot in the playoffs.
How many more years does Rexy get to be a rookie QB? He's been through camp 4 times, played in preaseason 4 times, stood on the sideline for years. Played in a playoff game. How many rookies get to do that? He's is NOT a rookie. He's a 4 year veteran that has played in only 16 games. That isnt atypical for quarterbacks. They are called 'backups', and even backup QBs are expected not to go out and turn the ball over 4 times.Guys like Charlie Frye and JP Losman have started similar amounts of games, how come nobody describes them as a virtual rookie? Or Seneca Wallace? Bruce Gradkowski is an actual rookie and he's only thrown 1 pick all season.Being a rookie is like being a virgin, even if you botch it or sustain an injury, you only get to be it once.
ebcpastor2004
Footballguy
The way I see it- you've got a one-trick pony with Rexy: the deep ball. Berrian, the deep threat, goes out after one catch with a rib injury and GROSSman can't recover. That's when the game plan should have changed and they should have run the ball down Miami's throat. And yes I do own TJ (& BB & CB)
Theisman was on Mike & Mike this morning and he said exactly what I was thinking- what scares you about Grossman is that his interceptions are so inexplicable you wonder what he could have been thinking. A couple of those yesterday there wasnt a Bear within 15 yards.
Any QB can have a rough day- look at Brady yesterday. But he had a couple of badly tipped balls, and sometimes you make a questionable throw (even a good throw) and the DB just flat out makes a great play. Thats acceptable.
Grossman's problem is that when his progression breaks down or he has to move around, he goes into default Gator's mode and just wings the ball down the field off his back foot. That isnt something thats going to correct itself. Grossman has a decision making problem combined with a mechanics problem, and that is very bad news, particularly come playoff time when the stakes go up. UM is right, teams are now going to scheme to get Grossman out of his comfort zone and know he will make a disasterous mistake. Practically can tell the D line not to sack the guy- let him out of the pocket and he'll throw the ball up for grabs.
Any QB can have a rough day- look at Brady yesterday. But he had a couple of badly tipped balls, and sometimes you make a questionable throw (even a good throw) and the DB just flat out makes a great play. Thats acceptable.
Grossman's problem is that when his progression breaks down or he has to move around, he goes into default Gator's mode and just wings the ball down the field off his back foot. That isnt something thats going to correct itself. Grossman has a decision making problem combined with a mechanics problem, and that is very bad news, particularly come playoff time when the stakes go up. UM is right, teams are now going to scheme to get Grossman out of his comfort zone and know he will make a disasterous mistake. Practically can tell the D line not to sack the guy- let him out of the pocket and he'll throw the ball up for grabs.
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Ed Wood
Footballguy
Dr. Jekyl, meet Mr. Hyde
Not a Bears fans so I have no vest interested, but Gross man!!
So, the question becomes, can the Bears win it with Grossman at the helm? More specifically, can he put together 3 quality performances against 3 supposedly quality teams in the playoffs, or will he throw a stinkbomb somewhere in there and kill the Bears' chances? Or will he even get that far?
Not a Bears fans so I have no vest interested, but Gross man!!
So, the question becomes, can the Bears win it with Grossman at the helm? More specifically, can he put together 3 quality performances against 3 supposedly quality teams in the playoffs, or will he throw a stinkbomb somewhere in there and kill the Bears' chances? Or will he even get that far?
msommer
Footballguy
Actually I think Losman should be called a rookie as well - but the haters are not going to allow that.Frye - he's also practically a rookie in terms of games started.
Redhots GM
Footballguy
This is the issue with Grossman. If the O line doesn't give him time and his receivers are covered he's lost. You can see it in his eyes and his feet. When he's flustered he throws to imaginery Bears off his back foot and bad things happen. After a play like that you see him walk off the field with no clue as to what just happened.... like a deer in the headlights.He's nowhere near a playoff caliber QB....
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Thank you for proving my point. The rookie designation by definition refers to how long you have been in the NFL, not how many games you start. When Seattle brought in Matt Hasselbeck from the ultimate thankless job of being Brett Favres backup- nobody said 'hey look the Seahawks new rookie QB'. There's a difference between being a rookie and a backup. A big difference.If anything this whole misnomer is an insult to actual rookie QBs who do get it done. The guys that walk in with 1 training camp under their belt and never having had a chance to be on the sideline, much less master the playbook and get a handle on NFL speed. i've got a lot more sympathy (and respect) for Matt Lienart and Vince Young... too much to give Grossman and Losman the same level of consideration.
Warpig
Footballguy
That "elite" D gave up almost 200 rushing yards and, was it 3 passing TD's to THE MR. JOEY HARRINGTON?! I didn't get to see the game but if they started falling behind, Grossman may have been forcing things to try and make a play since it's quite obvious the "elite" D didn't have it going that day.
All these people moaning and groaning are more than likely Griese owners. Let's see, Brady gave up 4 INT's last night...where are the posts with people saying Brady needs to be benched?
QB's tend to run hot and cold. Look at Manning last year. Brady, McNabb, Vick, Palmer...etc. I guess every QB in the league should be benched when they have bad days.
jonessed
Footballguy
Nope. The cat is out of the bag on how to rattle Grossman and the Bears will not survive 3+ turnover games against playoff teams. I find it hard to believe that he won't put up at least one stinker.
Shermanator
Footballguy
He's a Gator qb. nuff said
Judge Smails
Footballguy
So this week the D was on the field a lot and cracked for the first time. But that doesn't negate the points above. This team does not need to score 30 points a game to win. They need their QB to NOT turn the ball over and lose games. They take way too many unnecessary risks downfield. Move the chains. Stretch the field once inawhile. But don't throw balls up for grabs..That "elite" D gave up almost 200 rushing yards and, was it 3 passing TD's to THE MR. JOEY HARRINGTON?! I didn't get to see the game but if they started falling behind, Grossman may have been forcing things to try and make a play since it's quite obvious the "elite" D didn't have it going that day.
All these people moaning and groaning are more than likely Griese owners. Let's see, Brady gave up 4 INT's last night...where are the posts with people saying Brady needs to be benched?
QB's tend to run hot and cold. Look at Manning last year. Brady, McNabb, Vick, Palmer...etc. I guess every QB in the league should be benched when they have bad days.
I agree but most not all. I think under pressure he shows his inexperience. While not so unexpected, the Bears gotta protect him better if they're gonna go deep in the playoffs. Injuries seem to be taking many key Giant players out of this next matchup but most weeks they can bring it. Andy Reid will send his boys after Rex too. The Boys(not sure 3 NFCE teams can make it but) Canty and Ware can get after the QB esp Ware. The Bears have to adjust. TE stays in more, FB stays home more, whatever Lovie decides. Also maybe inexperienced Rex needs to get on his linemen in the right professional way. It's probably a good thing this has come up now.
benson_will_lead_the_way
Footballguy
your exactly right....i mean seriously, why would any good Qb out of high school attend Florida??? Their fate is already pre-determined for them....They cannot be successful no matter what because of the school they went to. This in fact started from the very first Qb in the Florida program to the end of time.
I agree there need to be adjustments, but keeping more guys in to protect is exactly the wrong thing to do. In the modern NFL this plays into the defenses hands. Think about it, the fewer receivers in pass routes the easier for the defense to cover them, and the more tempting it is for the QB to try to force it to a covered reciever. This invites defenses to blitz, forcing the QB to make an even faster decision (a blitzer always has an advantage over a blocker- momentum, and knowing where he is coming from). The better and more experienced Qbs in the league read the blitz and make sure the proper reciever does as well- who runs a hot route to get the ball away quickly and let the receiver hopefully run free against an overcommitted defense. But Grossman likes to throw the ball down the field even at the risk of holding it too long (think Drew Bledsoe) so his odds of both recognizing the blitz, recognizing his hot route, and deciding to make the one step drop throw are not good odds. Worse he'll probably throw it off his back foot opening up all kinds of disaster scenarios.Teams like the Patriots and the Colts have proved that you get better results by doing the counterintuitive and flooding more recievers. Defenses cant cover everyone so a QB making quick reads will identify the likely open target and make a quick decision before the pass rush can get to him. As long as a pass rusher or blitzer doesnt get a completely free rush the QB can get the ball out for at least a short gain- thats how the modern pass game resembles a run game in many respects, a swing pass is about equivalent to an off tackle run. What the Bears need to do with Grossman is get it through his head that its ok to either throw the ball away or dump it off for a short pass. The guy swings for the fences too often, and the Bears just dont need that to win. Mechanically he needs to be stopped from throwing off his back foot. Brett Favre aside, no quarterback can get away with that at the NFL level no matter the circumstance, particularly throwing blind. If i'm Lovey i make him spend the week stepping into throws and let him know if I see that next week i'm sitting him down- even if it works. Somebody needs to get inside Rex's head and shake him up a little- there is such a thing as being too confident in your ability.
boubucarow
Footballguy
Grossman deserves no excuses for his play versus Arizona and Miami (as well as practically the entire Viking game). However to be fair, Brady threw two extremely high risk/extremely low reward passes into triple coverage when he had no reason to force such passes. There is no quarterback that does not make highly suspect decisions with the ball. The question is how often they will be rattled or confused enough to do so. Obviously, Manning and Brady have proven they are usually top notch performers.Grossman has been rattled or confused for the majority of three games this year. On one hand, five great games out of eight is pretty for a player who just reached 16 career starts (one playoff game included). On the other, three really bad games out of eight isn't good for a team with super bowl aspirations.As has been mentioned, the real key for the Bears is whether Grossman can avoid the really bad game when the defense clicks in the playoffs and whether Grossman can shine when it is needed in the postseason. The prospects for either is highly questionable at this point. But he has a few really big games left to prove what adjustments he has made.Two of Brady's passes hit his receivers in the hands and bounced to a defender. Two of Grossmans ints he just threw directly to a defender without a Bear around. There's a big difference. Brady had an off game. Grossman is establishing a disturbing pattern.
Warpig
Footballguy
I agree that he trys to force too many balls deep instead of taking what the defense gives him. Hell, I was screaming about that in the game against Arizona. Instead of passing it to the RB's or to the TE's (that were usually wide open in the middle of the field), he was heaving it 50 yards downfield to a double covered WR. It baffled the hell out of me. And it appears that he is still doing it.I'm not bashing him saying he needs to be benched, but I do agree that he has things he needs to work on to get to the next tier of QB's. He has a rocket arm and nice touch but he needs to play smarter.
Dancing Bear
Footballguy
This is SO TRUE and the metaphor made me laugh!
So the Bears D isn't elite? I stopped reading after that.They fell behind because Rex came out trying to be like Peyton Manning. 42 pass attempts? Maybe they wouldn't have 6 turnovers if they weren't running the run and shoot offense.That "elite" D gave up almost 200 rushing yards and, was it 3 passing TD's to THE MR. JOEY HARRINGTON?! I didn't get to see the game but if they started falling behind, Grossman may have been forcing things to try and make a play since it's quite obvious the "elite" D didn't have it going that day.
All these people moaning and groaning are more than likely Griese owners. Let's see, Brady gave up 4 INT's last night...where are the posts with people saying Brady needs to be benched?
QB's tend to run hot and cold. Look at Manning last year. Brady, McNabb, Vick, Palmer...etc. I guess every QB in the league should be benched when they have bad days.
If you have an elite D, two highly paid RBs, a QB who's played 12 games, you don't come out chucking it around like it's flag football.
RUN THE BALL. Control the clock. Grind the game out. Why are the Bears asking Rex to win the game? Maybe Rex was "having an off day" when he was throwing more TDs to miami then the bears. They are simply asking Rex to do too much, with not enough offensive talent.
The OFFENSE has almost lost them two games, and lost them the game yesterday. The defense is not the problem with the Bears.
It's laughable you're asking a 12 game starter, to go out there and chuck it 42 times. Yes they were down, because Rex had 4 turnovers. They weren't down because the D was getting it's ### kicked. 6 turnovers? Bears need to follow the Raven blue print. No mistakes, strong D.
Here's Rex's split the last 4
2/0
0/4
3/0
1/3
56% passing overall. 10 ints.
They need to ride TJ/Benson, use play action, and let Rex manage the game. They are not the 1999 rams. They are a ball control offense, that is veryyy confused.
Dancing Bear
Footballguy
There are really two points here to me.
a) There were way TOO MANY mistakes by the collective Bears and specifically Grossman [4 out of 6].
b) Most of these mistakes were at the wrong end of the field! Only one of the turnovers resulted in Miami having the ball at their own end of the 50-yard line. The other 5 resulted in a possession with little or NO field left to score; the Chicago defense literally had no chance. On 4 out of 5 of these mistakes Miami scores a TD! These were pre-wrapped Holiday gifts! From the 6 ... From the 12 ... From the 20 ... From the 24 ...
a) There were way TOO MANY mistakes by the collective Bears and specifically Grossman [4 out of 6].
b) Most of these mistakes were at the wrong end of the field! Only one of the turnovers resulted in Miami having the ball at their own end of the 50-yard line. The other 5 resulted in a possession with little or NO field left to score; the Chicago defense literally had no chance. On 4 out of 5 of these mistakes Miami scores a TD! These were pre-wrapped Holiday gifts! From the 6 ... From the 12 ... From the 20 ... From the 24 ...
hawaiiankrush
Footballguy
Very simply, Grossman's mechanics breaks down when he gets enough pressure. He starts throwing off his back foot and his arm action therefore does not have the proper follow-through. Ergo, the balls start to sail all over the place.
I don't disagree with that theory. It's sorta works both ways though. Keeping more in to protect could work so could another reciever. Interesting you mentioned the Pats and Colts because they each do both. Both play two TEs often and mix up whether they stay home or go out on a pass route. Those options, IMO, are because of their level headed QBs. The Bears don't have one, they have a nervous guy(which is fine at this point in his career). Along your theory, I might guess an extra receiver would make him think more and slow things up rather than make a quick decision(talking seconds or half seconds). Plenty of Os have a RB/FB there to dump the ball to. That can be useful for him in the sense you mention but Centers success and conversely the team's lack of success makes me believe a QB can rely on that too much and it's not a good constant to have. On a play here or there, sure that's common.I agree with the first sentence of your last paragraph completely but that's a calm/rational thought you want him to have and the problem is he's not thinking that way. I think they gotta get him to that point and protection might do it. Further, I could see a QB that folds under pressure now, doesn't have success on those critical 3rd downs in the playoffs. I wouldn't be surprised if they could address this and he'll do well later on under pressure.I don't think Rex has won too many close games or led too many 4th quarter comebacks. His confidence level will go up when he gets some of them under his belt too.
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