The Martz Effect in Chicago (1 Viewer)

[Clifford]

In case anyone is looking at the Bears trip to the Championship game and attributing any of that success to Martz, consider these rankings:

2009, before Martz, Chicago finished 23rd

2010, after hiring Martz as OC, Chicago finished 30th.

And now we are letting this clown deal our TE and prevent us from acquiring any WR over six feet tall.

 

[FavreCo]

His resume reads 'I leave a path of destruction behind me'.

 

[BroadwayG]

23rd in what?

 

[CapnJB]

23rd in what?

Stats.

 

[BroadwayG]

23rd in what?

Stats.

Like cumulative shoe size? Is that a stat?

 

[finito]

LMAO

 

[netnalp]

I'd blame whomever hired an OC whose scheme the Bears didn't have the personnel for and Martz has shown he doesn't tailor the scheme to the players, he just forces what he has into the system and hopes for the best. Martz is a one-trick-pony, if you have the WRs and QB, decent line then go with him, if not look elsewhere.

 

[hostile]

Chi is now apparently pursuing Roy Williams now.

Williams' only Pro Bowl year came in Det under Martz, and Cutler is better than Kitna.

ChrisWesseling Chris Wesseling #Bears have begun their pursuit of Roy Williams, according to Chicago Tribune.

 

[twistd]

I can't tell you how disgusted I am. Trading Olsen for a bag of chips was unbelievable stupid. It never ceases to amaze me that Martz can only run his system. Angelo should definitely be fired for the stupidity of this move. This is the dumbest thing the Bears have done since trading for Rick Mirer.

 

[Power Monster]

I can't tell you how disgusted I am. Trading Olsen for a bag of chips was unbelievable stupid. It never ceases to amaze me that Martz can only run his system. Angelo should definitely be fired for the stupidity of this move. This is the dumbest thing the Bears have done since trading for Rick Mirer.

Rick Mirer? Ohh man where is the scotch!!!!!!!!

 

[FavreCo]

I'd blame whomever hired an OC whose scheme the Bears didn't have the personnel for and Martz has shown he doesn't tailor the scheme to the players, he just forces what he has into the system and hopes for the best. Martz is a one-trick-pony, if you have the WRs and QB, decent line then go with him, if not look elsewhere.

Been saying that for half a decade +. He is still cashing in off of Warner, Bruce, Faulk and Holt. 3 possibly 4 HOF'ers at the skill positions. He is incapable of adapting to personnel. Flat out, he's clueless and sucks.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

I'd blame whomever hired an OC whose scheme the Bears didn't have the personnel for and Martz has shown he doesn't tailor the scheme to the players, he just forces what he has into the system and hopes for the best. Martz is a one-trick-pony, if you have the WRs and QB, decent line then go with him, if not look elsewhere.

Been saying that for half a decade +. He is still cashing in off of Warner, Bruce, Faulk and Holt. 3 possibly 4 HOF'ers at the skill positions. He is incapable of adapting to personnel. Flat out, he's clueless and sucks.

Were you sleeping when he changed the entire offense the second half of the season and led Chicago to the NFC Championship game???

 

[FavreCo]

I'd blame whomever hired an OC whose scheme the Bears didn't have the personnel for and Martz has shown he doesn't tailor the scheme to the players, he just forces what he has into the system and hopes for the best. Martz is a one-trick-pony, if you have the WRs and QB, decent line then go with him, if not look elsewhere.

Been saying that for half a decade +. He is still cashing in off of Warner, Bruce, Faulk and Holt. 3 possibly 4 HOF'ers at the skill positions. He is incapable of adapting to personnel. Flat out, he's clueless and sucks.

Were you sleeping when he changed the entire offense the second half of the season and led Chicago to the NFC Championship game???

Nope. I watched that fluke season. Lucky they had a good D to lead them to the playoffs. They finish 3rd this year at best.

 

[Clifford]

23rd in what?

Stats.

Offense

 

[netnalp]

I'd blame whomever hired an OC whose scheme the Bears didn't have the personnel for and Martz has shown he doesn't tailor the scheme to the players, he just forces what he has into the system and hopes for the best. Martz is a one-trick-pony, if you have the WRs and QB, decent line then go with him, if not look elsewhere.

Been saying that for half a decade +. He is still cashing in off of Warner, Bruce, Faulk and Holt. 3 possibly 4 HOF'ers at the skill positions. He is incapable of adapting to personnel. Flat out, he's clueless and sucks.

Were you sleeping when he changed the entire offense the second half of the season and led Chicago to the NFC Championship game???

Nope. I watched that fluke season. Lucky they had a good D to lead them to the playoffs. They finish 3rd this year at best.

I prefer coaches that look at their personnel and develop a scheme around them.

 

[cvnpoka]

I'd blame whomever hired an OC whose scheme the Bears didn't have the personnel for and Martz has shown he doesn't tailor the scheme to the players, he just forces what he has into the system and hopes for the best. Martz is a one-trick-pony, if you have the WRs and QB, decent line then go with him, if not look elsewhere.

wait, is that why the bears were the most run heavy team for the 2nd half of last season?

 

[netnalp]

I'd blame whomever hired an OC whose scheme the Bears didn't have the personnel for and Martz has shown he doesn't tailor the scheme to the players, he just forces what he has into the system and hopes for the best. Martz is a one-trick-pony, if you have the WRs and QB, decent line then go with him, if not look elsewhere.

wait, is that why the bears were the most run heavy team for the 2nd half of last season?

Yes, because their passing game was awful. Even the Lions were able to throw for 4,000+ yards the first year Martz arrived, so I don't think it can be said the numbers were down because they were learning the offense. I think it's more they didn't have players with the ability to execute the offense effectively.

 

[cvnpoka]

I'd blame whomever hired an OC whose scheme the Bears didn't have the personnel for and Martz has shown he doesn't tailor the scheme to the players, he just forces what he has into the system and hopes for the best. Martz is a one-trick-pony, if you have the WRs and QB, decent line then go with him, if not look elsewhere.

wait, is that why the bears were the most run heavy team for the 2nd half of last season?

Yes, because their passing game was awful. Even the Lions were able to throw for 4,000+ yards the first year Martz arrived, so I don't think it can be said the numbers were down because they were learning the offense. I think it's more they didn't have players with the ability to execute the offense effectively.

so they didnt have the players to execute a traditional martz offense and instead shifted to a style that better befitted their personnel? isnt that the exact opposite of what martz is being accused of itt?

 

[buck naked]

I can't tell you how disgusted I am. Trading Olsen for a bag of chips was unbelievable stupid. It never ceases to amaze me that Martz can only run his system. Angelo should definitely be fired for the stupidity of this move. This is the dumbest thing the Bears have done since trading for Rick Mirer.

I disagree. Olsen couldn't block to save his life.

 

[mr roboto]

I know aromashodu isn't a great WR, but this is the second target that Jay personally liked and felt comfortable with that Martz got rid of. His timing offense doesn't fit Jay's game and he is going to force it come hell or high water.

 

[netnalp]

I'd blame whomever hired an OC whose scheme the Bears didn't have the personnel for and Martz has shown he doesn't tailor the scheme to the players, he just forces what he has into the system and hopes for the best. Martz is a one-trick-pony, if you have the WRs and QB, decent line then go with him, if not look elsewhere.

wait, is that why the bears were the most run heavy team for the 2nd half of last season?

Yes, because their passing game was awful. Even the Lions were able to throw for 4,000+ yards the first year Martz arrived, so I don't think it can be said the numbers were down because they were learning the offense. I think it's more they didn't have players with the ability to execute the offense effectively.

so they didnt have the players to execute a traditional martz offense and instead shifted to a style that better befitted their personnel? isnt that the exact opposite of what martz is being accused of itt?

No, the reason it isn't the opposite is that despite evidence that they couldn't run the Martz offense and had to resort to running more, the team is making off-season moves, like getting rid of Olsen, that are in line with the Martz scheme and not a new scheme where they run the ball. The did get TE Spaeth, a run blocker but wouldn't Olsen have been a good compliment to a run-blocking TE? No clue why they haven't gone after WRs. Rice would have been a good addition. It just doesn't seem they are learning from the lessons of last season and continuing with a scheme that doesn't fit their personnel.

 

[mr roboto]

They aren't going after WR's because Martz wants to get the credit for his scheme. He's an academic who wants to be proven right and success is becaue of his system, not the players.

 

[Power Monster]

I'd blame whomever hired an OC whose scheme the Bears didn't have the personnel for and Martz has shown he doesn't tailor the scheme to the players, he just forces what he has into the system and hopes for the best. Martz is a one-trick-pony, if you have the WRs and QB, decent line then go with him, if not look elsewhere.

Been saying that for half a decade +. He is still cashing in off of Warner, Bruce, Faulk and Holt. 3 possibly 4 HOF'ers at the skill positions. He is incapable of adapting to personnel. Flat out, he's clueless and sucks.

Were you sleeping when he changed the entire offense the second half of the season and led Chicago to the NFC Championship game???

Nope. I watched that fluke season. Lucky they had a good D to lead them to the playoffs. They finish 3rd this year at best.

As a Bear's fan- this is the reality of the situation.

 

[cvnpoka]

No, the reason it isn't the opposite is that despite evidence that they couldn't run the Martz offense and had to resort to running more, the team is making off-season moves, like getting rid of Olsen, that are in line with the Martz scheme and not a new scheme where they run the ball. The did get TE Spaeth, a run blocker but wouldn't Olsen have been a good compliment to a run-blocking TE? No clue why they haven't gone after WRs. Rice would have been a good addition. It just doesn't seem they are learning from the lessons of last season and continuing with a scheme that doesn't fit their personnel.

is olsen much of a blocker? he has a poor blocking reputation. it sure seems like swapping a poor blocking, pass catching te for a blocking specialist is in the better interests of the run game. and could even help a pass game that was quite susceptible to the rush.afaict, free agency isnt over yet. i think their may even be some wrs left out there.

 

[sihaokills]

His resume reads 'I leave a path of destruction behind me'.

 

[netnalp]

No, the reason it isn't the opposite is that despite evidence that they couldn't run the Martz offense and had to resort to running more, the team is making off-season moves, like getting rid of Olsen, that are in line with the Martz scheme and not a new scheme where they run the ball. The did get TE Spaeth, a run blocker but wouldn't Olsen have been a good compliment to a run-blocking TE? No clue why they haven't gone after WRs. Rice would have been a good addition. It just doesn't seem they are learning from the lessons of last season and continuing with a scheme that doesn't fit their personnel.

is olsen much of a blocker? he has a poor blocking reputation. it sure seems like swapping a poor blocking, pass catching te for a blocking specialist is in the better interests of the run game. and could even help a pass game that was quite susceptible to the rush.afaict, free agency isnt over yet. i think their may even be some wrs left out there.

That's why I said he'd be a compliment to Spaeth. Don't most running teams have a blocking TE and one that's more of a receiving threat? I just think it's ridiculous for Martz to not use TEs when he's had ones the caliber of Olsen and previously Vernon Davis. It's not like teams haven't been able to build an offense around the TE till they are able to acquire WR talent. The Chargers with Gates, Chiefs with Gonzo, Broncos with Sharpe. When NFL teams figured out that the wildcat doesn't work if you don't have the personnel for it, they decreased it's use or took it out. Martz, he just keeps trying to put square pegs in round holes.

 

[McJose]

Every year I promise to myself that I will not to go into any Bears thread in the Shark Pool. And every year I break that promise. Same thing this year. But I'm glad I chose this one to start (and end) with.

No wonder Bears fans have a bad rep.

 

[twistd]

I can't tell you how disgusted I am. Trading Olsen for a bag of chips was unbelievable stupid. It never ceases to amaze me that Martz can only run his system. Angelo should definitely be fired for the stupidity of this move. This is the dumbest thing the Bears have done since trading for Rick Mirer.

I disagree. Olsen couldn't block to save his life.

The Bears need someone who can catch a pass. The Bears have an offensive line that can't block either, so Olsen fit right in.

 

[twistd]

No, the reason it isn't the opposite is that despite evidence that they couldn't run the Martz offense and had to resort to running more, the team is making off-season moves, like getting rid of Olsen, that are in line with the Martz scheme and not a new scheme where they run the ball. The did get TE Spaeth, a run blocker but wouldn't Olsen have been a good compliment to a run-blocking TE? No clue why they haven't gone after WRs. Rice would have been a good addition. It just doesn't seem they are learning from the lessons of last season and continuing with a scheme that doesn't fit their personnel.

is olsen much of a blocker? he has a poor blocking reputation. it sure seems like swapping a poor blocking, pass catching te for a blocking specialist is in the better interests of the run game. and could even help a pass game that was quite susceptible to the rush.afaict, free agency isnt over yet. i think their may even be some wrs left out there.

That's why I said he'd be a compliment to Spaeth. Don't most running teams have a blocking TE and one that's more of a receiving threat? I just think it's ridiculous for Martz to not use TEs when he's had ones the caliber of Olsen and previously Vernon Davis. It's not like teams haven't been able to build an offense around the TE till they are able to acquire WR talent. The Chargers with Gates, Chiefs with Gonzo, Broncos with Sharpe. When NFL teams figured out that the wildcat doesn't work if you don't have the personnel for it, they decreased it's use or took it out. Martz, he just keeps trying to put square pegs in round holes.

Martz is supposed to be this offensive genius, but he can't make use of the players he has. The Bears are a worse team today because their receiving core got worse. They weren't very good to start with. And the Bears are hanging their hopes on Roy Williams, really? How sad is it that Roy Williams would improve your receiving core? How many teams do you think Roy Williams could start for? I think that the Bears may very well finish third in their own division. I see them taking a big step backwards.

 

[twistd]

Here is something to think about. The NFL is definitely a copycat league. The Dolphins have some success with the Wildcat, and suddenly the next year half a dozen teams are running it. The Steelers have so much success with a 3-4 zone blitz scheme, and a bunch of teams are running that now. Bill Walsh creates the WCO and you still have a bunch of teams running that. Martz coached the Rams when they won a Super Bowl, but no one but him has run his scheme. It was marginally successful with the Lions and a complete failure with the Niners. But it should tell you something that although he has had success with it, no one else will use it. I think it succeeded in St Louis because of the talent they had, but it is inherently flawed, and other teams seem to feel that way or someone, besides Martz, would be running this scheme.

 

[therokie0070]

you guys are smoking crack!!! What was the bears record last year? who won the division? last time I checked stats don't mean crap if you win the game!!! SD had best O and D stats and they did not win the division and sucked!! Martz is not there to help your fantasy team he is there to help the bears win games and make it to the playoffs for a shot at the superbowl!!

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

No, the reason it isn't the opposite is that despite evidence that they couldn't run the Martz offense and had to resort to running more, the team is making off-season moves, like getting rid of Olsen, that are in line with the Martz scheme and not a new scheme where they run the ball. The did get TE Spaeth, a run blocker but wouldn't Olsen have been a good compliment to a run-blocking TE? No clue why they haven't gone after WRs. Rice would have been a good addition. It just doesn't seem they are learning from the lessons of last season and continuing with a scheme that doesn't fit their personnel.

is olsen much of a blocker? he has a poor blocking reputation. it sure seems like swapping a poor blocking, pass catching te for a blocking specialist is in the better interests of the run game. and could even help a pass game that was quite susceptible to the rush.afaict, free agency isnt over yet. i think their may even be some wrs left out there.

That's why I said he'd be a compliment to Spaeth. Don't most running teams have a blocking TE and one that's more of a receiving threat? I just think it's ridiculous for Martz to not use TEs when he's had ones the caliber of Olsen and previously Vernon Davis. It's not like teams haven't been able to build an offense around the TE till they are able to acquire WR talent. The Chargers with Gates, Chiefs with Gonzo, Broncos with Sharpe. When NFL teams figured out that the wildcat doesn't work if you don't have the personnel for it, they decreased it's use or took it out. Martz, he just keeps trying to put square pegs in round holes.

Martz is supposed to be this offensive genius, but he can't make use of the players he has. The Bears are a worse team today because their receiving core got worse. They weren't very good to start with. And the Bears are hanging their hopes on Roy Williams, really? How sad is it that Roy Williams would improve your receiving core? How many teams do you think Roy Williams could start for? I think that the Bears may very well finish third in their own division. I see them taking a big step backwards.

The Bears WR core is better. Returning Knox, Bennett, Hester was your core from last year. Roy Williams and Sam Hurd are much better than Devin Aromashadu and Rashied Davis. That's what people aren't realizing, the Bears WR3 and WR4 will be improved because the whole unit is improved. The offense doesn't go through 1 player, so having upgrades at multiple positions makes the entire unit better.Add in the Bears got rid of the 32nd ranked Punter last year and signed a middle tier guy, that improves field position greatly.

 

[Lash]

here is why you lost Orton (read title of this linked thread) .... http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=591516&st=0&gopid=13375923entry13375923

 

[flapgreen]

Martz will end Cutler's career this year in Chicago.

 

[twistd]

you guys are smoking crack!!! What was the bears record last year? who won the division? last time I checked stats don't mean crap if you win the game!!! SD had best O and D stats and they did not win the division and sucked!! Martz is not there to help your fantasy team he is there to help the bears win games and make it to the playoffs for a shot at the superbowl!!

The Bears won last year in spite of Martz, not because of Martz. Probably Tice had more to do with the Bears success offensively than Martz did. The Bears were a very good,opportunistic defense. The special teams were very good. The offense did just enough to win. Reworking the roster to fit the Martz scheme is a mistake, IMO. They would be much better off to improve the offensive line, and run a more conventional offense, while focusing on the run. Martz will get Cutler killed. Another thing that helped the Bears is they stayed relatively healthy. The Packers had a rash of injuries and still were competitive. I think the Bears are very well poised to take a major step backwards.

 

[twistd]

No, the reason it isn't the opposite is that despite evidence that they couldn't run the Martz offense and had to resort to running more, the team is making off-season moves, like getting rid of Olsen, that are in line with the Martz scheme and not a new scheme where they run the ball. The did get TE Spaeth, a run blocker but wouldn't Olsen have been a good compliment to a run-blocking TE? No clue why they haven't gone after WRs. Rice would have been a good addition. It just doesn't seem they are learning from the lessons of last season and continuing with a scheme that doesn't fit their personnel.

is olsen much of a blocker? he has a poor blocking reputation. it sure seems like swapping a poor blocking, pass catching te for a blocking specialist is in the better interests of the run game. and could even help a pass game that was quite susceptible to the rush.afaict, free agency isnt over yet. i think their may even be some wrs left out there.

That's why I said he'd be a compliment to Spaeth. Don't most running teams have a blocking TE and one that's more of a receiving threat? I just think it's ridiculous for Martz to not use TEs when he's had ones the caliber of Olsen and previously Vernon Davis. It's not like teams haven't been able to build an offense around the TE till they are able to acquire WR talent. The Chargers with Gates, Chiefs with Gonzo, Broncos with Sharpe. When NFL teams figured out that the wildcat doesn't work if you don't have the personnel for it, they decreased it's use or took it out. Martz, he just keeps trying to put square pegs in round holes.

Martz is supposed to be this offensive genius, but he can't make use of the players he has. The Bears are a worse team today because their receiving core got worse. They weren't very good to start with. And the Bears are hanging their hopes on Roy Williams, really? How sad is it that Roy Williams would improve your receiving core? How many teams do you think Roy Williams could start for? I think that the Bears may very well finish third in their own division. I see them taking a big step backwards.

The Bears WR core is better. Returning Knox, Bennett, Hester was your core from last year. Roy Williams and Sam Hurd are much better than Devin Aromashadu and Rashied Davis. That's what people aren't realizing, the Bears WR3 and WR4 will be improved because the whole unit is improved. The offense doesn't go through 1 player, so having upgrades at multiple positions makes the entire unit better.Add in the Bears got rid of the 32nd ranked Punter last year and signed a middle tier guy, that improves field position greatly.

I don't think the WR core is much better. Hester is what he is. Knox and Bennett may get a little better. Aromashadu was no loss, Hurd and Davis are a wash. So you add Roy Williams and subtract Greg Olsen. I'd say the WR core is marginally better than they were. Becoming more familiar with the offense should help. But I think, personnel wise, they are dreaming if they think these additions are a major upgrade. To really make the offense better you have to improve the offensive line. Carimi should be an upgrade at either RT or LT, but Williams and Garza are still there. Neither is all that good. The jury is still out on Webb. He looked okay at times, and overwhelmed at others. Kreutz may be the best option at center remaining if they can get him resigned, but his play has declined. I'd like to see a really solid guard or tackle brought in to shore up that line, in addition to Carimi.

 

[Donnybrook]

It is going to be interesting watching the Chicago Rams this year. They are obviously less talented than the original version especially on the oline and in the defensive backfield.

 

[netnalp]

No, the reason it isn't the opposite is that despite evidence that they couldn't run the Martz offense and had to resort to running more, the team is making off-season moves, like getting rid of Olsen, that are in line with the Martz scheme and not a new scheme where they run the ball. The did get TE Spaeth, a run blocker but wouldn't Olsen have been a good compliment to a run-blocking TE? No clue why they haven't gone after WRs. Rice would have been a good addition. It just doesn't seem they are learning from the lessons of last season and continuing with a scheme that doesn't fit their personnel.

is olsen much of a blocker? he has a poor blocking reputation. it sure seems like swapping a poor blocking, pass catching te for a blocking specialist is in the better interests of the run game. and could even help a pass game that was quite susceptible to the rush.afaict, free agency isnt over yet. i think their may even be some wrs left out there.

That's why I said he'd be a compliment to Spaeth. Don't most running teams have a blocking TE and one that's more of a receiving threat? I just think it's ridiculous for Martz to not use TEs when he's had ones the caliber of Olsen and previously Vernon Davis. It's not like teams haven't been able to build an offense around the TE till they are able to acquire WR talent. The Chargers with Gates, Chiefs with Gonzo, Broncos with Sharpe. When NFL teams figured out that the wildcat doesn't work if you don't have the personnel for it, they decreased it's use or took it out. Martz, he just keeps trying to put square pegs in round holes.

Martz is supposed to be this offensive genius, but he can't make use of the players he has. The Bears are a worse team today because their receiving core got worse. They weren't very good to start with. And the Bears are hanging their hopes on Roy Williams, really? How sad is it that Roy Williams would improve your receiving core? How many teams do you think Roy Williams could start for? I think that the Bears may very well finish third in their own division. I see them taking a big step backwards.

The Bears WR core is better. Returning Knox, Bennett, Hester was your core from last year. Roy Williams and Sam Hurd are much better than Devin Aromashadu and Rashied Davis. That's what people aren't realizing, the Bears WR3 and WR4 will be improved because the whole unit is improved. The offense doesn't go through 1 player, so having upgrades at multiple positions makes the entire unit better.Add in the Bears got rid of the 32nd ranked Punter last year and signed a middle tier guy, that improves field position greatly.

To match what Martz's system was able to do with the Rams, the Bears #1 & 2 WRs need to increase their combined receptions by 60-80. Under Martz the Rams #3 & 4 WRs combined for about 70-80 receptions. The Bears #3 & 4 are doing that, the #1 & 2 have a long way to go.

 

[flapgreen]

No, the reason it isn't the opposite is that despite evidence that they couldn't run the Martz offense and had to resort to running more, the team is making off-season moves, like getting rid of Olsen, that are in line with the Martz scheme and not a new scheme where they run the ball. The did get TE Spaeth, a run blocker but wouldn't Olsen have been a good compliment to a run-blocking TE? No clue why they haven't gone after WRs. Rice would have been a good addition. It just doesn't seem they are learning from the lessons of last season and continuing with a scheme that doesn't fit their personnel.

is olsen much of a blocker? he has a poor blocking reputation. it sure seems like swapping a poor blocking, pass catching te for a blocking specialist is in the better interests of the run game. and could even help a pass game that was quite susceptible to the rush.afaict, free agency isnt over yet. i think their may even be some wrs left out there.

That's why I said he'd be a compliment to Spaeth. Don't most running teams have a blocking TE and one that's more of a receiving threat? I just think it's ridiculous for Martz to not use TEs when he's had ones the caliber of Olsen and previously Vernon Davis. It's not like teams haven't been able to build an offense around the TE till they are able to acquire WR talent. The Chargers with Gates, Chiefs with Gonzo, Broncos with Sharpe. When NFL teams figured out that the wildcat doesn't work if you don't have the personnel for it, they decreased it's use or took it out. Martz, he just keeps trying to put square pegs in round holes.

Martz is supposed to be this offensive genius, but he can't make use of the players he has. The Bears are a worse team today because their receiving core got worse. They weren't very good to start with. And the Bears are hanging their hopes on Roy Williams, really? How sad is it that Roy Williams would improve your receiving core? How many teams do you think Roy Williams could start for? I think that the Bears may very well finish third in their own division. I see them taking a big step backwards.

The Bears WR core is better. Returning Knox, Bennett, Hester was your core from last year. Roy Williams and Sam Hurd are much better than Devin Aromashadu and Rashied Davis. That's what people aren't realizing, the Bears WR3 and WR4 will be improved because the whole unit is improved. The offense doesn't go through 1 player, so having upgrades at multiple positions makes the entire unit better.Add in the Bears got rid of the 32nd ranked Punter last year and signed a middle tier guy, that improves field position greatly.

Better? You have to be the most delusional Bears fan ever. They let their most reliable receiver go and add Roy Williams and Sam Hurd, now they're better? This shtick got old years ago. Ya think they should bring your boy Benson back to bolster the running game? How about giving Ron Turner another shot at things? If they did, you would back every move they made. Maybe you should apply for a job in the front office to wipe JA's ### every time he goes to the bathroom and tell him how good it smells.

 

[cvnpoka]

They let their most reliable receiver go

huh?

 

[netnalp]

They let their most reliable receiver go

huh?

Probably means Olsen, but I think he was #3 in receptions, but he wasn't behind the WRs by many.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

The Bears WR core is better. Returning Knox, Bennett, Hester was your core from last year. Roy Williams and Sam Hurd are much better than Devin Aromashadu and Rashied Davis. That's what people aren't realizing, the Bears WR3 and WR4 will be improved because the whole unit is improved. The offense doesn't go through 1 player, so having upgrades at multiple positions makes the entire unit better.Add in the Bears got rid of the 32nd ranked Punter last year and signed a middle tier guy, that improves field position greatly.

Better? You have to be the most delusional Bears fan ever. They let their most reliable receiver go and add Roy Williams and Sam Hurd, now they're better? This shtick got old years ago. Ya think they should bring your boy Benson back to bolster the running game? How about giving Ron Turner another shot at things? If they did, you would back every move they made. Maybe you should apply for a job in the front office to wipe JA's ### every time he goes to the bathroom and tell him how good it smells.

How did their WR core get worse?Did they get worse at TE? Yes, Kellen Davis is a downgrade from Greg Olsen. However, Matt Spaeth is an upgrade over Manu.The shtick that is old, is the media and Bears fans hating on Chicago QB's no matter what they produce. Jay Cutler is the best QB Chicago has had since Sid Luckman over 5 decades ago, however it's easier to be critical.All you do is complain about the Bears year after year, well they must've done something right if they went to the NFC Championship game last year. It gets old

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

The Bears WR core is better. Returning Knox, Bennett, Hester was your core from last year. Roy Williams and Sam Hurd are much better than Devin Aromashadu and Rashied Davis. That's what people aren't realizing, the Bears WR3 and WR4 will be improved because the whole unit is improved. The offense doesn't go through 1 player, so having upgrades at multiple positions makes the entire unit better.Add in the Bears got rid of the 32nd ranked Punter last year and signed a middle tier guy, that improves field position greatly.

I don't think the WR core is much better. Hester is what he is. Knox and Bennett may get a little better. Aromashadu was no loss, Hurd and Davis are a wash. So you add Roy Williams and subtract Greg Olsen. I'd say the WR core is marginally better than they were. Becoming more familiar with the offense should help. But I think, personnel wise, they are dreaming if they think these additions are a major upgrade. To really make the offense better you have to improve the offensive line. Carimi should be an upgrade at either RT or LT, but Williams and Garza are still there. Neither is all that good. The jury is still out on Webb. He looked okay at times, and overwhelmed at others. Kreutz may be the best option at center remaining if they can get him resigned, but his play has declined. I'd like to see a really solid guard or tackle brought in to shore up that line, in addition to Carimi.

The Bears WR core is better with Earl Bennett healthy. Knox is entering year 3. But even so the WR core is better.I think Chris Williams has been injured a lot in his young career, but I like his potential.I'm not a fan of Webb, he reminds me of Phil Loadholt. He is a big guy that doesn't move his feet well.I would like our short yardage issues to Olin Kreutz. He gets overwhelmed due to his small size and depleting skills. He goes against Suh, Rai, and Kevin Williams/Pat Williams.

 

[twistd]

The Bears WR core is better. Returning Knox, Bennett, Hester was your core from last year. Roy Williams and Sam Hurd are much better than Devin Aromashadu and Rashied Davis. That's what people aren't realizing, the Bears WR3 and WR4 will be improved because the whole unit is improved. The offense doesn't go through 1 player, so having upgrades at multiple positions makes the entire unit better.Add in the Bears got rid of the 32nd ranked Punter last year and signed a middle tier guy, that improves field position greatly.

I don't think the WR core is much better. Hester is what he is. Knox and Bennett may get a little better. Aromashadu was no loss, Hurd and Davis are a wash. So you add Roy Williams and subtract Greg Olsen. I'd say the WR core is marginally better than they were. Becoming more familiar with the offense should help. But I think, personnel wise, they are dreaming if they think these additions are a major upgrade. To really make the offense better you have to improve the offensive line. Carimi should be an upgrade at either RT or LT, but Williams and Garza are still there. Neither is all that good. The jury is still out on Webb. He looked okay at times, and overwhelmed at others. Kreutz may be the best option at center remaining if they can get him resigned, but his play has declined. I'd like to see a really solid guard or tackle brought in to shore up that line, in addition to Carimi.

The Bears WR core is better with Earl Bennett healthy. Knox is entering year 3. But even so the WR core is better.I think Chris Williams has been injured a lot in his young career, but I like his potential.I'm not a fan of Webb, he reminds me of Phil Loadholt. He is a big guy that doesn't move his feet well.I would like our short yardage issues to Olin Kreutz. He gets overwhelmed due to his small size and depleting skills. He goes against Suh, Rai, and Kevin Williams/Pat Williams.

I don't remember Bennett being injured last year. He just wasn't on the field that much. Knox may improve, but I see him as a #2 or maybe a slot guy. Knox seemed out of position a lot last year. Maybe that gets corrected as he gains knowledge of the system, but I am skeptical. I would feel a lot better about Knox if he was playing across from a player like Steve Smith or Santana Moss. Those are players that command attention. I think that would help him a lot. I think they could mentor him. Williams is not a good mentor. I hope you are right, and the WRs get better, but I need to see a lot more from them. Williams had some good games last year but overall he was a disappointment. Maybe he plays closer to the 2006 version, rather than the 2010 version.I think Chris Williams just isn't very good. I think he would probably be sitting on the bench except for the fact that the Bears invested a first round pick in him. If he was playing between a Pro Bowl center and a Pro Bowl tackle, maybe he'd be okay. But right now he is just not very good.You may be right about Webb. I'd feel better with him at RT than at LT.Kreutz has tailed off in his play, but I don't know what better options are out there. Right now they are $500,000 apart on contract. The Bears offered $3 million for a year, he wanted $5 million. The Bears upped it to $4 million, he came down to $4.5 million and that is where they stand. I don't know what other options are out there at center, but so far Garza or Williams don't look like the answer. And I wonder if Kreutz can get that much money from anyone else in the league. The bottom line is that I thought the offensive line was the biggest problem coming in to this year. Drafting Carimi was a good start, but they need to do more, particularly if they don't sign Kreutz.

 

[mlball77]

The Bears WR core is better. Returning Knox, Bennett, Hester was your core from last year. Roy Williams and Sam Hurd are much better than Devin Aromashadu and Rashied Davis. That's what people aren't realizing, the Bears WR3 and WR4 will be improved because the whole unit is improved. The offense doesn't go through 1 player, so having upgrades at multiple positions makes the entire unit better.

Add in the Bears got rid of the 32nd ranked Punter last year and signed a middle tier guy, that improves field position greatly.

I don't think the WR core is much better. Hester is what he is. Knox and Bennett may get a little better. Aromashadu was no loss, Hurd and Davis are a wash. So you add Roy Williams and subtract Greg Olsen. I'd say the WR core is marginally better than they were. Becoming more familiar with the offense should help. But I think, personnel wise, they are dreaming if they think these additions are a major upgrade. To really make the offense better you have to improve the offensive line. Carimi should be an upgrade at either RT or LT, but Williams and Garza are still there. Neither is all that good. The jury is still out on Webb. He looked okay at times, and overwhelmed at others. Kreutz may be the best option at center remaining if they can get him resigned, but his play has declined. I'd like to see a really solid guard or tackle brought in to shore up that line, in addition to Carimi.

The Bears WR core is better with Earl Bennett healthy. Knox is entering year 3. But even so the WR core is better.I think Chris Williams has been injured a lot in his young career, but I like his potential.

I'm not a fan of Webb, he reminds me of Phil Loadholt. He is a big guy that doesn't move his feet well.

I would like our short yardage issues to Olin Kreutz. He gets overwhelmed due to his small size and depleting skills. He goes against Suh, Rai, and Kevin Williams/Pat Williams.

I don't remember Bennett being injured last year. He just wasn't on the field that much. Knox may improve, but I see him as a #2 or maybe a slot guy. Knox seemed out of position a lot last year. Maybe that gets corrected as he gains knowledge of the system, but I am skeptical. I would feel a lot better about Knox if he was playing across from a player like Steve Smith or Santana Moss. Those are players that command attention. I think that would help him a lot. I think they could mentor him. Williams is not a good mentor. I hope you are right, and the WRs get better, but I need to see a lot more from them. Williams had some good games last year but overall he was a disappointment. Maybe he plays closer to the 2006 version, rather than the 2010 version.I think Chris Williams just isn't very good. I think he would probably be sitting on the bench except for the fact that the Bears invested a first round pick in him. If he was playing between a Pro Bowl center and a Pro Bowl tackle, maybe he'd be okay. But right now he is just not very good.

You may be right about Webb. I'd feel better with him at RT than at LT.

Kreutz has tailed off in his play, but I don't know what better options are out there. Right now they are $500,000 apart on contract. The Bears offered $3 million for a year, he wanted $5 million. The Bears upped it to $4 million, he came down to $4.5 million and that is where they stand. I don't know what other options are out there at center, but so far Garza or Williams don't look like the answer. And I wonder if Kreutz can get that much money from anyone else in the league. The bottom line is that I thought the offensive line was the biggest problem coming in to this year. Drafting Carimi was a good start, but they need to do more, particularly if they don't sign Kreutz.

IIRC, Bennett started off camp and the preseason with a hammy injury or some injury that put him behind the curve right out of the gate. I think he got a tiny bit more opportunity toward the end of the season and in the playoffs. Based on comments from Martz during the offseason, it seems like he is now thinking that Bennett should play a more significant role. With Roy Williams now in town, I have my doubts, but the Mike Furrey or Shaun McDonald roles seem very do-able... and I think Bennett is the superior WR when compared to those former Martz surprises. However, the Bears passing game isn't nearly what Martz had going for those other teams, so I'd expect the Furrey/McDonald role to be less productive (since the whole passing attack is less productive).