The next Gronk or Graham? (1 Viewer)

[zilladog]

We all see the trends towards the passing game and away from the running game in today's NFL. As a result, we saw the emergence of 2 Tight ends who absolutely destroyed our expectations for what a tight end in today's pass heavy offenses can produce. Antonio Gates, Tony Gonzales, Jason Witten, and Dallas Clark never even had years like those two guys.

We also know that the NFL is a copycat league. Are we going to see more teams use their Tight ends like they were used in NO and NE? was 2011 a statistical anomaly due to the lockout or some other reason? Are these two guys just absolute freaks of human nature? Who are your most likely candidates to reach Gronk and Graham's tier, if anyone?

 

[djmich]

Not likely (anyone would be a longshot), but Cook fits the description to me.

 

[heidbrink]

There's been some recent buzz with Cleveland TE's Evan Moore and Jordan Cameron in that vein.

These two stories below are clipped from the FBG news blogger a couple weeks back:

.............

Browns | Expect big improvement from Jordan Cameron Tue May 15, 01:55 AM

Cleveland Browns head coach Pat Shurmur said Monday, May 14, that he expects TE Jordan Cameron to take a big step forward this season. 'The guy that looks way different is Jordan Cameron. Oh, gosh - the size - and he's had a great offseason. He's a guy that hadn't played much football, so I think he'll make a big improvement this year,' Shurmur said.

Our view: Cameron was very raw coming out of USC in 2011. He's a former basketball star who only had 16 catches during his college career. Cameron is a player to watch in dynasty leagues as he plays a lot like Saints TE Jimmy Graham. He's an athletic move TE who can attack the deep middle seam of the defense and makes difficult catches seem routine.

Link to story

.............

Browns | Two TEs could get bigger roles Sun May 13, 02:59 PM

Cleveland Browns TEs Evan Moore and Jordan Cameron could receive bigger roles in the offense this season.

Our view: Cameron is a former basketball star at USC who some think could develop into a Jimmy Graham type of weapon for the Browns. Moore is essentially a super sized WR and will give QB Brandon Weeden a good target in the red zone.

Link to story

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Are these two guys just absolute freaks of human nature? Who are your most likely candidates to reach Gronk and Graham's tier, if anyone?

Gronk is out of this world and if he stays healthy I think he's likely to end up in the HOF. A year ago I said this:

I came across something about Tony Gonzalez earlier today and for kicks entered his (estimated) pre-NFL data into the TE model. It turns out that he [Gonzalez] slots into the projections between Rob Gronkowski (prediction alert) and Jason Witten - as one of the top three or four TE 'prospects' in the database.

Gronk was, by a pretty good margin, the best TE in my TE model. And the fact that the two players most similar to him, Gonzo and Witten, are both pretty likely HOFers led me to believe he was going to be truly outstanding. So far, so good.Graham might be Gronk's equal physically, but the three year difference in age may be enough to keep his career in the mortal realm.

In terms of guys for 2012 specifically I'd watch Gresham. Between being an exceptional talent, being generally due for a breakout year, and with no obvious WR2 to pick up Simpson's 50 catches I think he could surprise.

Longer term Fleener could be outstanding.

And for an out of nowhere possibility in the coming years I think Taylor Thompson's worth paying attention to.

 

[Tau837]

Are these two guys just absolute freaks of human nature? Who are your most likely candidates to reach Gronk and Graham's tier, if anyone?

Gronk is out of this world and if he stays healthy I think he's likely to end up in the HOF. A year ago I said this:

I came across something about Tony Gonzalez earlier today and for kicks entered his (estimated) pre-NFL data into the TE model. It turns out that he [Gonzalez] slots into the projections between Rob Gronkowski (prediction alert) and Jason Witten - as one of the top three or four TE 'prospects' in the database.

Gronk was, by a pretty good margin, the best TE in my TE model. And the fact that the two players most similar to him, Gonzo and Witten, are both pretty likely HOFers led me to believe he was going to be truly outstanding. So far, so good.Graham might be Gronk's equal physically, but the three year difference in age may be enough to keep his career in the mortal realm.

In terms of guys for 2012 specifically I'd watch Gresham. Between being an exceptional talent, being generally due for a breakout year, and with no obvious WR2 to pick up Simpson's 50 catches I think he could surprise.

Longer term Fleener could be outstanding.

And for an out of nowhere possibility in the coming years I think Taylor Thompson's worth paying attention to.

Nice post. Glad you mentioned Fleener; I'm targeting him in my dynasty rookie draft.

 

[DexterDew]

good topic and I missed out in a couple of dynasty leagues last year because I didn't think this through... basically we are looking for the next stud TE. The NFL is changing and become a passing first league, there are also more 2 TE sets (see NE, which can support 2 Top 5 TE as an example of creating mismatches).

Now I am a big believer that you need to have a stud QB to have a stud TE. So I look there first. Going through the top 10 QBs on the FBG dynasty list you get:

Rodgers- I like Finley's potential and situation. Downside is he is never going to get 120+ targets. Williams might be worth a stash, too.

Stafford- Pettigrew is a decent option over the next couple of years. Already 27, but TEs have a little longer shelf life, he caught 83 passes on 130 targets. I don't see him being a difference maker.

Cam- No idea how he will progress as a passer. Olsen is a decent 2nd option in the passing game for now, but someday they will acquire a legit 2nd WR

Brees- Already has a Top 2 option.

Eli- I would take a flier on Bennett or Robinson, maybe see which one builds a rapport with Eli during the pre-season since Nicks is out

Brady- Already has 2 Top 5 options.

RG3- Davis is still young enough to put together a couple good years with RG3... more risk since we haven't seen him throw an NFL pass, but I am a believer and Davis could emerge as the 2nd option in that offense and good for 100+ targets (still short of being a difference maker)

Rivers- Gates probably has 1 or 2 years left, and I don't see Green being the next Gates.

Luck- Fleener and Allen. Love Fleener being with Luck for at least the next four years. I think he may be startable in FF this year. Allen is more of a long shot since we don't know how they will be used (think Allen will stay on the field more, and definately be used as a blocker more)

Romo- Witten has been solid for many years. A difference maker in PPR. He just turned 30 and has to share targets with Austin/Dez, but i see him being productive for a few more years.

Long story short, if we are trying to find the next Top 3 TE, I think Fleener and Finley are the two best bets. But neither is necessarily cheap to acquire. If we are talking fliers, then the two obtainable rookies that are in good situations are Robinson & Allen (with potential in Thompson in TEN and Rodriguez in CHI)

 

[Bracie Smathers]

There's been some recent buzz with Cleveland TE's Evan Moore and Jordan Cameron in that vein.

These two stories below are clipped from the FBG news blogger a couple weeks back:

.............

Browns | Expect big improvement from Jordan Cameron Tue May 15, 01:55 AM

Cleveland Browns head coach Pat Shurmur said Monday, May 14, that he expects TE Jordan Cameron to take a big step forward this season. 'The guy that looks way different is Jordan Cameron. Oh, gosh - the size - and he's had a great offseason. He's a guy that hadn't played much football, so I think he'll make a big improvement this year,' Shurmur said.

Our view: Cameron was very raw coming out of USC in 2011. He's a former basketball star who only had 16 catches during his college career. Cameron is a player to watch in dynasty leagues as he plays a lot like Saints TE Jimmy Graham. He's an athletic move TE who can attack the deep middle seam of the defense and makes difficult catches seem routine.

Link to story

.............

Browns | Two TEs could get bigger roles Sun May 13, 02:59 PM

Cleveland Browns TEs Evan Moore and Jordan Cameron could receive bigger roles in the offense this season.

Our view: Cameron is a former basketball star at USC who some think could develop into a Jimmy Graham type of weapon for the Browns. Moore is essentially a super sized WR and will give QB Brandon Weeden a good target in the red zone.

Link to story

I like Cameron and feel he will take a big step forward this year but their are a few obsticals in his path.One doesn't even have to do with Jordan, it has to do with his projected starting QB.

Seems Brandon Weeden never used tight ends at Oklahoma State so this is something that will impact all Cleveland TEs, Evan Moore, Jordan Cameron, Ben Watson, Alex Smith.

From Tuesday's press conference with Weeden.

This nugget raised some eyebrows.

Weeden spins this as a positive and considering the Browns lack talent at WR but have potential at TE he may be reading the situation correctly, but logically their has to be a transitional learning period for a rookie QB to learn all of the routes and then understand how to effectively utilize TEs.

Browns rookie QB never used TE in college

Is it tough learning the offense, is it complex, is it different than what you’ve run?:

“Yeah, it’s completely different from what I ran. But I don’t think it’s complex. It all makes sense. You’ve just gotta study it. It’s all terminology. [it’s] a lot of the same concepts as far as route concepts and stuff like that. I think the biggest difference for me is we didn’t use the tight end at Oklahoma State, so incorporating a tight end is a benefit for me as well, but I think it’s the biggest difference from Oklahoma State to what we did now. Knock on wood, I’m making steps in the right direction.”

Here is a projection for Cameron that someone came up with. Don't agree or disagree with this but its the first projection I've seen on what Cameron might do this season:

My link

... With a full offseason's worth of time to build chemistry with his quarterbacks, Cameron should see his development accelerate. That improved rapport combined with his innate athletic ability should propel him into a far more integral part of the Browns' passing game than he was last season.

Look for Cameron to pull down between 20-30 passes this season, worth at least 250 yards. His talent lies in gaining yards after the catch, and he should also prove to be a solid red-zone target.

As such, he could add five to seven touchdowns to the Browns' total this year—and for a team that had just 20 total scores in 2011, that will certainly make a difference.

Not sure on those projections, the TDs seem really high unless he's the second coming of Jerimichael Finley and he and Weeden get some sort of Vulcan mind-meld on goal line fades.

 

[Bronx Bomber]

good topic and I missed out in a couple of dynasty leagues last year because I didn't think this through... basically we are looking for the next stud TE. The NFL is changing and become a passing first league, there are also more 2 TE sets (see NE, which can support 2 Top 5 TE as an example of creating mismatches).Now I am a big believer that you need to have a stud QB to have a stud TE. So I look there first. Going through the top 10 QBs on the FBG dynasty list you get:Rodgers- I like Finley's potential and situation. Downside is he is never going to get 120+ targets. Williams might be worth a stash, too.Stafford- Pettigrew is a decent option over the next couple of years. Already 27, but TEs have a little longer shelf life, he caught 83 passes on 130 targets. I don't see him being a difference maker.Cam- No idea how he will progress as a passer. Olsen is a decent 2nd option in the passing game for now, but someday they will acquire a legit 2nd WRBrees- Already has a Top 2 option. Eli- I would take a flier on Bennett or Robinson, maybe see which one builds a rapport with Eli during the pre-season since Nicks is outBrady- Already has 2 Top 5 options.RG3- Davis is still young enough to put together a couple good years with RG3... more risk since we haven't seen him throw an NFL pass, but I am a believer and Davis could emerge as the 2nd option in that offense and good for 100+ targets (still short of being a difference maker)Rivers- Gates probably has 1 or 2 years left, and I don't see Green being the next Gates.Luck- Fleener and Allen. Love Fleener being with Luck for at least the next four years. I think he may be startable in FF this year. Allen is more of a long shot since we don't know how they will be used (think Allen will stay on the field more, and definately be used as a blocker more)Romo- Witten has been solid for many years. A difference maker in PPR. He just turned 30 and has to share targets with Austin/Dez, but i see him being productive for a few more years.Long story short, if we are trying to find the next Top 3 TE, I think Fleener and Finley are the two best bets. But neither is necessarily cheap to acquire. If we are talking fliers, then the two obtainable rookies that are in good situations are Robinson & Allen (with potential in Thompson in TEN and Rodriguez in CHI)

Looks like the theme is that it will be someone with a top 5 ish QB and a pass heavy offense.

 

[cstu]

The Bears' Kellen Davis has a chance to break out this year:

- Tice likes to use TE's unlike Martz

- He has a QB who can put up near-elite numbers when healthy

- He's a red zone target and has 9 TD's on 28 career catches

- Cutler has said that Davis can be an elite TE

Link

Blocking specialist Matt Spaeth is confident that the tight end position will have a bigger role in Mike Tice's offense than the one Mike Martz ran the past couple of seasons.

Spaeth concedes the exact role in the passing game is uncertain, but "as of right now, I would say yes, the tight end is going to be involved a lot more." Spaeth calls starter Kellen Davis a "tremendous, tremendous talent" and a "freakish athlete" whose "best stuff is yet to come." Davis' role is a situation to monitor in training camp. May. 23 - 11:47 am et

 

[Sake-Bombers]

From everything I'm reading, Kyle Rudolph has a great chance to emerge this season as a key part of the Vikings offense. He's a guy I'm targeting wherever I can.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

The Bears' Kellen Davis has a chance to break out this year:

Was running out as I finished my last post and meant to add that Kellen Davis and Martellus Bennett could be nice surprises (though not as good as the 'Gr's).

 

[lbouchard]

Yeah you need to be a physical freak and have an elite QB. So Finley comes to mind, but he has so many drops. Gronk and Graham are really in perfect situation

 

[football fan]

good topic and I missed out in a couple of dynasty leagues last year because I didn't think this through... basically we are looking for the next stud TE. The NFL is changing and become a passing first league, there are also more 2 TE sets (see NE, which can support 2 Top 5 TE as an example of creating mismatches).Now I am a big believer that you need to have a stud QB to have a stud TE. So I look there first. Going through the top 10 QBs on the FBG dynasty list you get:Rodgers- I like Finley's potential and situation. Downside is he is never going to get 120+ targets. Williams might be worth a stash, too.Stafford- Pettigrew is a decent option over the next couple of years. Already 27, but TEs have a little longer shelf life, he caught 83 passes on 130 targets. I don't see him being a difference maker.Cam- No idea how he will progress as a passer. Olsen is a decent 2nd option in the passing game for now, but someday they will acquire a legit 2nd WRBrees- Already has a Top 2 option. Eli- I would take a flier on Bennett or Robinson, maybe see which one builds a rapport with Eli during the pre-season since Nicks is outBrady- Already has 2 Top 5 options.RG3- Davis is still young enough to put together a couple good years with RG3... more risk since we haven't seen him throw an NFL pass, but I am a believer and Davis could emerge as the 2nd option in that offense and good for 100+ targets (still short of being a difference maker)Rivers- Gates probably has 1 or 2 years left, and I don't see Green being the next Gates.Luck- Fleener and Allen. Love Fleener being with Luck for at least the next four years. I think he may be startable in FF this year. Allen is more of a long shot since we don't know how they will be used (think Allen will stay on the field more, and definately be used as a blocker more)Romo- Witten has been solid for many years. A difference maker in PPR. He just turned 30 and has to share targets with Austin/Dez, but i see him being productive for a few more years.Long story short, if we are trying to find the next Top 3 TE, I think Fleener and Finley are the two best bets. But neither is necessarily cheap to acquire. If we are talking fliers, then the two obtainable rookies that are in good situations are Robinson & Allen (with potential in Thompson in TEN and Rodriguez in CHI)

Good stuff, the only two concerns that I have about Finley are 1) there are a lot of talented WRs on the packers roster to share targets with (TEs - GB kept five TEs on their roster last year, so maybe one or two of these guys develop into decent NFL players) and 2) Finley drops a lot of balls - I am a packer homer - watch all of their games and some of their practices, and Finley always seems to be dropping a pass. His hands are a little suspect.

 

[cstu]

Yeah you need to be a physical freak and have an elite QB. So Finley comes to mind, but he has so many drops. Gronk and Graham are really in perfect situation

Davis has the talent and if he stays healthy he has the QB.Graham

6-6 1/4, 260

40 - 4.53

20 - 2.61

10 - 1.53

Vert - 38 1/2

Broad - 10'0

Shuttle - 4.45 (4.39 Pro Day)

3 Cone - 6.90

Kellen Davis

6-6 1/2, 262

40 - 4.59

20 - 2.62

10 - 1.53

Vert - 34 (Pro Day)

Broad - 9'10

Shuttle - 4.38

3 Cone - 7.15

This clipshows what he can do if used properly.

 

[_lurker_]

TEs that I think can be a lesser version of Gronk and Hernandez... Pitta and Dickson BAL TEs.

 

[TS Garp]

Gronkowski had an historic season for a TE and Graham wasn't far behind. They were both in ideal situations; playing in high-octane offenses with a hall of fame quarterback throwing them the ball. I don't think we're likely to see that again. So, if the question is will we see a TE match what Gronkowski and Graham did last year, I think the answer is no. The only ones I think have a chance are Hernandez, Pettigrew, and Finley.

If the question is which TE's have a chance to take a big step forward and surprise, I'd list the following:

* Jared Cook: Started to deliver on his massive potential after a slow start. Put up 21/335/1 in his last 3 games and has big-play potential.

* Jacob Tamme: Everyone's talking about Thomas and Decker, but I think Manning will throw to Tamme early and often and he will be a weekly starter in most leagues at some point.

* Jermaine Gresham: Quietly getting better and 56/596/6 in 14 games is pretty decent. Could turn into 70/850/9 this season.

Longer shots:

* Maretellus Bennett: Disappointment so far but steps into a great offense as a starter and he's on a one-year deal, so he'll be motivated.

* Kellen Davis: No more Martz and Tice should use him a lot. Sleeper.

* Lance Kendricks: Popular sleeper pick last year flopped in a huge way, but the entire team was a mess. Will get another opportunity.

* Kyle Rudolph: Has the physical tools and could emerge.

* Evan Moore: Good red zone target but needs to get on the field more.

 

[az_prof]

I have Fleener and I like him and his situation.

But I also like Kendricks in STL and Kyle Rudolph in MN. Of those two, I like Kendrick's chances better because I DO think Bradford will become an elite QB.

 

[ShaHBucks]

Fred Davis

 

[underdog223]

How about Julius Thomas. I think he could be a beast with Manning in there.

 

[Anthony Borbely]

I would say nobody because of situations. I think Finley is the most capable, but there are too many options in the Green Bay passing game. Same with Hernandez. Vernon Davis could be with a better QB. But I don't see it happening this year.

 

[Sabertooth]

Both of these guys have laser arms quarterbacks, size, and athletic ability. Both play in prolific offense and have mediocre defenses. There are two players that fit this description in the NFL. They are both in the NFC North. Finley and Pettigrew appear to be viable candidates to really take that huge jump. I'd include NFC North alum Greg Olsen too but I don't see the passing attack in Carolina being effective enough to make him a true superstar.

 

[Nagle2998]

I think Hernandez could be just as good he just needs to stay healthy because he could just as easily be the te who gets 17 Td's as Gronk was.

 

[lbouchard]

I think Hernandez could be just as good he just needs to stay healthy because he could just as easily be the te who gets 17 Td's as Gronk was.

Hernandez isn't the RZ threat that Gronk is. I like Hernandez, but he's more of a between the 20s guy, and is more WR than TE.

 

[nickdib]

I think Hernandez could be just as good he just needs to stay healthy because he could just as easily be the te who gets 17 Td's as Gronk was.

Hernandez isn't the RZ threat that Gronk is. I like Hernandez, but he's more of a between the 20s guy, and is more WR than TE.

Physically he may not be but in the first 2 weeks of the season before he hurt his knee, Hernandez looked like the New England TE to own. And throughout the season he had a lot of red zone targets that he didnt come up with that next year he could definitely catch them and get a ton of tds. He also got ripped off of another td last year on a holding call.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

Fred Davis.

Last season before Davis got suspended he was on pace to catch 78 passes for 1061 yards and 117 targets with John Beck and Rex Grossman as his QB's.

So things we know.... Shannahn likes to utilize a good pass catching TE as he had with Sharpe for many years in Denver.

Davis is a 2.17 NFL draft pick so the talent has always been there. He is 6'4 and 260 pounds so he has nice size and very good speed. RG3 is a massive upgrade for the now and the future and Davis is only 26 years of age and entering his prime. So in a year where Davis was going to go over 1000 plus yards with crappy QB's what can he do with improved play by both himself and the QB going forward?

He is flying under the radar to me.

 

[Shutout]

If the Packers would use finley the way the Saints and Patriots commit themselves to using their guys, there is no doubt Finley is the the guy with the best QB and best talent.

Almost anyone else in the league has questionmarks.

In Indy, I guess I'm the minority but see Allen being the TE there, sooner than later. He's really not a blocker at all but he is in that height range/athletic ability range to where I could see him being used a lot like Hernandez in New England. I could definitely see him being NOT Gronk/graham-like but a solid top 7-8 TE.

 

[lbouchard]

If the Packers would use finley the way the Saints and Patriots commit themselves to using their guys, there is no doubt Finley is the the guy with the best QB and best talent.Almost anyone else in the league has questionmarks.In Indy, I guess I'm the minority but see Allen being the TE there, sooner than later. He's really not a blocker at all but he is in that height range/athletic ability range to where I could see him being used a lot like Hernandez in New England. I could definitely see him being NOT Gronk/graham-like but a solid top 7-8 TE.

Dwayne Allen is the blocker/Gronk role, while Fleener is the one used like a WR/Hernandez

 

[nickdib]

If the Packers would use finley the way the Saints and Patriots commit themselves to using their guys, there is no doubt Finley is the the guy with the best QB and best talent.Almost anyone else in the league has questionmarks.In Indy, I guess I'm the minority but see Allen being the TE there, sooner than later. He's really not a blocker at all but he is in that height range/athletic ability range to where I could see him being used a lot like Hernandez in New England. I could definitely see him being NOT Gronk/graham-like but a solid top 7-8 TE.

Dwayne Allen is the blocker/Gronk role, while Fleener is the one used like a WR/Hernandez

I'd rather have gronk

 

[cstu]

In Indy, I guess I'm the minority but see Allen being the TE there, sooner than later. He's really not a blocker at all but he is in that height range/athletic ability range to where I could see him being used a lot like Hernandez in New England. I could definitely see him being NOT Gronk/graham-like but a solid top 7-8 TE.

Allen is much shorter and slower than Gronk (6-3 vs 6-6, 4.89 vs 4.65). I don't know why he's not considered a good blocker since he looked like it on the videos I watched. He's athletic and did 27 reps at the combine so blocking shouldn't be a problem for him. I believe both TE's will be used heavily in the passing game but Allen will be blocking much more than Fleener.

 

[lbouchard]

If the Packers would use finley the way the Saints and Patriots commit themselves to using their guys, there is no doubt Finley is the the guy with the best QB and best talent.Almost anyone else in the league has questionmarks.In Indy, I guess I'm the minority but see Allen being the TE there, sooner than later. He's really not a blocker at all but he is in that height range/athletic ability range to where I could see him being used a lot like Hernandez in New England. I could definitely see him being NOT Gronk/graham-like but a solid top 7-8 TE.

Dwayne Allen is the blocker/Gronk role, while Fleener is the one used like a WR/Hernandez

I'd rather have gronk

I said he was going to be in the Gronk role of blocking, compared to Fleener being in the Hernandez role of being split out. If anyone in Indy would post Gronk like stats, it would be Fleener

 

[Tau837]

If the Packers would use finley the way the Saints and Patriots commit themselves to using their guys, there is no doubt Finley is the the guy with the best QB and best talent.Almost anyone else in the league has questionmarks.In Indy, I guess I'm the minority but see Allen being the TE there, sooner than later. He's really not a blocker at all but he is in that height range/athletic ability range to where I could see him being used a lot like Hernandez in New England. I could definitely see him being NOT Gronk/graham-like but a solid top 7-8 TE.

Dwayne Allen is the blocker/Gronk role, while Fleener is the one used like a WR/Hernandez

I'd rather have gronk

I said he was going to be in the Gronk role of blocking, compared to Fleener being in the Hernandez role of being split out. If anyone in Indy would post Gronk like stats, it would be Fleener

 

[Tau837]

Fred Davis.Last season before Davis got suspended he was on pace to catch 78 passes for 1061 yards and 117 targets with John Beck and Rex Grossman as his QB's.So things we know.... Shannahn likes to utilize a good pass catching TE as he had with Sharpe for many years in Denver.Davis is a 2.17 NFL draft pick so the talent has always been there. He is 6'4 and 260 pounds so he has nice size and very good speed. RG3 is a massive upgrade for the now and the future and Davis is only 26 years of age and entering his prime. So in a year where Davis was going to go over 1000 plus yards with crappy QB's what can he do with improved play by both himself and the QB going forward?He is flying under the radar to me.

No concern over his suspension?

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

Fred Davis.Last season before Davis got suspended he was on pace to catch 78 passes for 1061 yards and 117 targets with John Beck and Rex Grossman as his QB's.So things we know.... Shannahn likes to utilize a good pass catching TE as he had with Sharpe for many years in Denver.Davis is a 2.17 NFL draft pick so the talent has always been there. He is 6'4 and 260 pounds so he has nice size and very good speed. RG3 is a massive upgrade for the now and the future and Davis is only 26 years of age and entering his prime. So in a year where Davis was going to go over 1000 plus yards with crappy QB's what can he do with improved play by both himself and the QB going forward?He is flying under the radar to me.

No concern over his suspension?

Yes, there is definitely some concern over what will happen if he gets caught again.

 

[Dirk Digler]

intrigued by... Stocker and Housler.

Dont think they are Gronk/Graham material, but I didn't think Gronk and Graham were Gronk and Graham material after year 1 either.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

intrigued by... Stocker and Housler. Dont think they are Gronk/Graham material, but I didn't think Gronk and Graham were Gronk and Graham material after year 1 either.

They showed a ton of potential after a year...Gronk had 10 TDs.

 

[cstu]

intrigued by... Stocker and Housler. Dont think they are Gronk/Graham material, but I didn't think Gronk and Graham were Gronk and Graham material after year 1 either.

Stocker is expected to be mainly a blocker and TB is putting less emphasis on TE so I don't see much fantasy potential there.I like Housler but drafting Floyd put a huge damper on his potential. He's also stuck behind Heap and King for at least one more year.

 

[grateful zed]

is vernon davis too old for this thread?

 

[cstu]

is vernon davis too old for this thread?

Considering he's already been the #1 TE, I would say so.

 

[Matt Bitonti]

Gronk is out of this world and if he stays healthy I think he's likely to end up in the HOF.

I agree with this but look at Gronk's injury history and the way he plays the game, he's not long for this league. He's already had a fusion surgery when he was at Arizona. The better long term bet is Hernandez. Gronk will burn brightly and inevitably get hurt.

 

[ninerfanatic492000]

intrigued by... Stocker and Housler. Dont think they are Gronk/Graham material, but I didn't think Gronk and Graham were Gronk and Graham material after year 1 either.

Housler is close in terms of athletic ability has a chance if he gets a chance and some seasoning. The ironic thing is when housler actually made a play he looked alot like a young todd heap(who gronk reminds me of as well, just used more and more effectively)

 

[GreatLakesMike]

Jordan Cameron and Robert Housler.

 

[Phenix]

Can we stop with all the Finley stuff? He has been in the league 4 years about to be 5 and has never had 60 catches or 800 yards. Has as many injuries and issues as catches really. Just stop already, get over Finley, he is nothing but just an average producer. He had 92 targets and only caught 55 passes last year. How is that good or even close to elite status?

And the next Gronk or Graham meens young guy that you are not expecting who shows up from no where. Finley does not fit that mold, nor should he be in this discussion.

Bump Finley!

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

Can we stop with all the Finley stuff? He has been in the league 4 years about to be 5 and has never had 60 catches or 800 yards. Has as many injuries and issues as catches really. Just stop already, get over Finley, he is nothing but just an average producer. He had 92 targets and only caught 55 passes last year. How is that good or even close to elite status?And the next Gronk or Graham meens young guy that you are not expecting who shows up from no where. Finley does not fit that mold, nor should he be in this discussion.Bump Finley!

I agree that he's overrated. From a pure athletic standpoint, he's not elite either. He's tall and Rodgers can find him in good matchups. 4 of his 8 TDs last year came against Chicago(3 in one game)...they had the matchup.

 

[KellysHeroes]

Fred Davis.Last season before Davis got suspended he was on pace to catch 78 passes for 1061 yards and 117 targets with John Beck and Rex Grossman as his QB's.So things we know.... Shannahn likes to utilize a good pass catching TE as he had with Sharpe for many years in Denver.Davis is a 2.17 NFL draft pick so the talent has always been there. He is 6'4 and 260 pounds so he has nice size and very good speed. RG3 is a massive upgrade for the now and the future and Davis is only 26 years of age and entering his prime. So in a year where Davis was going to go over 1000 plus yards with crappy QB's what can he do with improved play by both himself and the QB going forward?He is flying under the radar to me.

No concern over his suspension?

Yes, there is definitely some concern over what will happen if he gets caught again.

Davis is a beast, use the threat of suspension to get him cheap

 

[Shutout]

In Indy, I guess I'm the minority but see Allen being the TE there, sooner than later. He's really not a blocker at all but he is in that height range/athletic ability range to where I could see him being used a lot like Hernandez in New England. I could definitely see him being NOT Gronk/graham-like but a solid top 7-8 TE.

Allen is much shorter and slower than Gronk (6-3 vs 6-6, 4.89 vs 4.65). I don't know why he's not considered a good blocker since he looked like it on the videos I watched. He's athletic and did 27 reps at the combine so blocking shouldn't be a problem for him. I believe both TE's will be used heavily in the passing game but Allen will be blocking much more than Fleener.

Perhaps because yours is only one opinion of many and the majority of the paid professionals who analyze talent all agree that he's not much of a blocker.

 

[Shutout]

If the Packers would use finley the way the Saints and Patriots commit themselves to using their guys, there is no doubt Finley is the the guy with the best QB and best talent.Almost anyone else in the league has questionmarks.In Indy, I guess I'm the minority but see Allen being the TE there, sooner than later. He's really not a blocker at all but he is in that height range/athletic ability range to where I could see him being used a lot like Hernandez in New England. I could definitely see him being NOT Gronk/graham-like but a solid top 7-8 TE.

Dwayne Allen is the blocker/Gronk role, while Fleener is the one used like a WR/Hernandez

I'd rather have gronk

I said he was going to be in the Gronk role of blocking, compared to Fleener being in the Hernandez role of being split out. If anyone in Indy would post Gronk like stats, it would be Fleener

I don't know how you guys can be so matter-of-fact about that.The OP's question was "next Gronk or Graham", which alludes to a guy that became a top TE but wasn't viewed by the consensus to be that type of talent and/or in that type of position.To me, that is ALLen much more so than Fleener. Everyone is all ga-ga over Fleener and making these assumptions that because he was with Luck, its all going to be Elfin magic. And people are glossing over Allen. But he IS very talented and he's not a guy that is a blocker. If Indy used that draft pick on him with the idea that he is going to be a blocker then they failed in two ways. But, in the vein of the OP's question, Allen is without a doubt a guy that could be a big boon for people drafting him.In a handful of drafts, I've seen Fleener go about 1.11 in every one of them. Allen: about 3rd or 4th round. I think it is highly likely that they both end up very comparable in fantasy production this year so that's a steal for people drafting Allen.

 

[ATC1]

How about Julius Thomas. I think he could be a beast with Manning in there.

Out into left field long shot prediction? Came in to post about Julius Thomas. Former Basketball player, very raw, but has the tools. Only thing that was missing was a QB. If he spent last year learning routes and gets Timming down with Manning, I think he will be the WW TE of the year.

 

[Shutout]

How about Julius Thomas. I think he could be a beast with Manning in there.

Out into left field long shot prediction? Came in to post about Julius Thomas. Former Basketball player, very raw, but has the tools. Only thing that was missing was a QB. If he spent last year learning routes and gets Timming down with Manning, I think he will be the WW TE of the year.

No way.Tamme is there and Manning trusts Tamme because Tamme knows what Manning expects.Dreesen is a very underrated guy. He would be in line before Thomas.Thomas is still a raw prospect and it takes a while to learn what Manning is doing, in addition to just learning the basics. Manning doesn't have a season or two to pour into Thomas and why would he? He's got a solid guy in Dreesen as well as a guy that already knows (and has performed well) with what he is doing. Thomas has been the type of guy that everyone wants so bad to connect the dots and illustrate his "Gates-like" path and his "Graham-like" attributes, but so much of this depends on the QB and with Manning, it just doesn't seem to make sense. I actually think that Thomas' development might be slowed by having Manning around.

 

[Sabertooth]

intrigued by... Stocker and Housler. Dont think they are Gronk/Graham material, but I didn't think Gronk and Graham were Gronk and Graham material after year 1 either.

I'm still not even convinced Gronk and Graham aren't sell-high type of guys right now. But for who? Gronk in TE required leagues is more valuable than Calvin. Hell if he performs like last years, he's more valuable than Kevlar.

 

[Tau837]

The OP's question was "next Gronk or Graham", which alludes to a guy that became a top TE but wasn't viewed by the consensus to be that type of talent and/or in that type of position.

I disagree. The OP asked:

Who are your most likely candidates to reach Gronk and Graham's tier, if anyone?

You seem to be adding an aspect to the question that has to do with exceeding expectations, but the question is strictly about who can reach the top tier of TE performance as established by Gronk and Graham last year.

Everyone is all ga-ga over Fleener and making these assumptions that because he was with Luck, its all going to be Elfin magic. And people are glossing over Allen. But he IS very talented and he's not a guy that is a blocker. If Indy used that draft pick on him with the idea that he is going to be a blocker then they failed in two ways.

Fleener (6'6", 247 lbs) is basically Gronk's size (about 10 pounds lighter, same height), but he is faster than Gronk (4.52 for Fleener vs. 4.65 for Gronk). Fleener also had WR level vertical and horizontal jumps at the combine, presumably better than Gronk. Fleener is coming out of a pro-style offense and is paired with his college QB.In comparison to Fleener, Allen is shorter (6'3"), heavier (255 lbs), much slower (4.89), and has smaller hands and slightly shorter arms. Fleener was better at all of the combine measures (speed, vertical jump, broad jump, three cone, shuttle) except bench press, where both Allen and Fleener had 27 reps. Allen is not coming out of a pro-style offense and is not paired with his college QB. Allen also has less game experience than Fleener.Given the above, if one of the two is going to block more than the other, while the other is going to be targeted more often in the passing game, isn't it logical to expect Allen to block more and Fleener to be targeted more?

But, in the vein of the OP's question, Allen is without a doubt a guy that could be a big boon for people drafting him.In a handful of drafts, I've seen Fleener go about 1.11 in every one of them. Allen: about 3rd or 4th round. I think it is highly likely that they both end up very comparable in fantasy production this year so that's a steal for people drafting Allen.

I don't disagree that Allen could eventually be a nice dynasty value, provided you have a deep roster and can afford to stash him for a few years.However, I think you are completely off base to say they will be very comparable in fantasy production this year. Fleener should have at least 50% more production IMO.