The NFL has fallen for Gabbert and Newton. (1 Viewer)

[shader]

When Luck didn't come out, it seemed like there was a large number of people wailing about the fact that there were no really good QB's in this draft, and how this was a terrible crop of QB's.

I thought at the time that due to the number of "desperate" teams out there, that the scouting community would "talk themselves into" a few of these QB's.

That's exactly what has happened. It really looks like Newton and Gabbert will both go in the top 5.

Are they top 5 players to you? How do you rank them compared to QB's taken in recent drafts?

 

[eakfootball]

They both scare me to death. But they are both worthy of top five picks with the importance of QBs.

 

[cheese]

Cam Newton especially has the teams at the top in such a difficult spot. The kid has unbelievable potential so teams who pass on him when they need a franchise QB are taking a huge risk. If you take him and he is a bust though, you're set back even further. One way or another, franchises will be changed by the stand they take on Newton (and to a lesser extent Gabbert).

If you want my personal opinion, I think he's worth the risk. His upside is enourmous and I think he's willing to work to achieve it. You have to take chances to turn a franchise around.

 

[krsone21]

I'm not sold on either QB, havn't since the begining of this whole process and my mind hasn't changed. I don't think either is worth a top 10 pick.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Hell No x2.

 

[Warpig]

I've got a huge man crush on Newton. But I also like Ponder and that Kaepernick (sp?) kid.

 

[FUBAR]

Neither of them are a Peyton Manning type QB, but with good coaching either could be an above average starter. If Gabbert got lucky and hit San Fran, he's got a good chance to be a pro bowler in 3 years. Newton could be great but I don't like his chances.

 

[moderated]

The scouting community didn't talk themselves into anything.

Both would be top 10 picks in any draft. Teams have to gamble on getting a franchise qb and while one or both of them might bust they have the potential.

Neither is a lock manning type but both are legitimate top tier prospects.

 

[Steed]

Check out how bad Gabbert is here. He has plenty of protection but his primary read is blanketed. He panics, rolls out to the open side, throws against his body for the Bowl losing INT. This guy is not a franchise QB.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

I'm pretty sure you can find awful plays from Peyton Manning and Tom Brady.

 

[GridironMenace]

Neither is a lock manning type...

Even Manning wasn't a "lock Manning type" when he came out. Let's not forget that Ryan Leaf was drafted ahead of him. Bottom line, is that Manning was just as big of a crapshoot as Ryan Leaf, just like Gabbert and Newton are as big of a crapshoot as Ryan Mallett or Ponder. Ryan Mallett has the highest ceiling, IMO, but it will be up to him and his questionable attitude to not screw it up.

 

[Phlash]

Neither is a lock manning type...

Even Manning wasn't a "lock Manning type" when he came out. Let's not forget that Ryan Leaf was drafted ahead of him. Bottom line, is that Manning was just as big of a crapshoot as Ryan Leaf, just like Gabbert and Newton are as big of a crapshoot as Ryan Mallett or Ponder. Ryan Mallett has the highest ceiling, IMO, but it will be up to him and his questionable attitude to not screw it up.

Both Peyton and Eli Manning were taken #1 overall in their respective drafts.

 

[FavreCo]

At least they won't have to pay J-Fat $ for these 2 guys.

 

[SmoovySmoov]

Neither is a lock manning type...

Even Manning wasn't a "lock Manning type" when he came out. Let's not forget that Ryan Leaf was drafted ahead of him.

Let's not forget that actually Manning was drafted first.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Almost as bad as this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8U_YhU0HgdI

 

[Insein]

Neither is a lock manning type...

Even Manning wasn't a "lock Manning type" when he came out. Let's not forget that Ryan Leaf was drafted ahead of him.

Let's not forget that actually Manning was drafted first.

Just to drive the point home some more. http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?season=1998

 

[Insein]

Neither is a lock manning type...

Even Manning wasn't a "lock Manning type" when he came out. Let's not forget that Ryan Leaf was drafted ahead of him. Bottom line, is that Manning was just as big of a crapshoot as Ryan Leaf, just like Gabbert and Newton are as big of a crapshoot as Ryan Mallett or Ponder. Ryan Mallett has the highest ceiling, IMO, but it will be up to him and his questionable attitude to not screw it up.

Obvious mistake aside, Manning was one of the most highly regarded and well polished college prospects of all time. There was some hype around Leaf because of the big gun and the late season run Wash St made that year but Manning had been touted as the greatest QB prospect of all time by some pundits. Obviously hindsight is 20/20 but they knew what was going on with Manning.

 

[Jason Wood]

I think any year it's a bit of a crapshoot in terms of QB quality. The top few QBs seem to always benefit from the never ending scarcity of the position, even if they may not grade out as elite prospects versus other classes.

 

[griff321]

You don't have to be perfect to be one of the all time greats at your position.

I worry a lot more about Newton. Low accuracy scrambling QBs seem to have a lot more trouble in the NFL.

 

[FavreCo]

Newton: A smarter version of Vince Young. He will still suck though.

 

[Steed]

A couple things here. -First off those are NFL corners making picks, they close windows a lot faster. My tape showed college corners that gabbert should be dominating.

- Chase, thanks for bringing up Matt Ryan. A lot of people use the lack of talent around Gabbert as an excuse for why he put up such poor numbers. It's my belief that franchise QBs elevate those around them same as Andrew Luck did, same as Matt Ryan did back at BC. Luck made some white TE look like Tony Gonzalez in their bowl game. If a QB needs loads of talent around him to be good, then he's nothing more than a system-QB.

- I know one youtube clip is only a snapshot, but that doesn't mean it can't be reflective of the rest of the season. He hasn't been that impressive and I think the original poster is correct, Luck not coming out has created a demand for the lesser QBs because the scouts are left reaching for franchise Qbs.

 

[Chase Stuart]

There's an endless supply of clips where Josh Freeman looks terrible. And he didn't do anything resembling elevating the talent around him, either.

 

[Shutout]

I think this is actually a fairly easy assessment.

There's a saying in the NFL that is soemthing like:

-A team can not afford to pass on a franchise QB when they have a chance. If they do, they set themselves back years.

However, teams can less afford to MISS on a franchise QB.

The Bills passed...and they are bad...but they can still keep going and may have found something in fitzpatrick.

The Raiders on the other hand MISSED with Jamarcus and they sucked longer as they gave it time to come around. It never did and now they are still looking pretty much.

So, taking that and then looking at these guys I have to think: Have I been hearing about these guys for multiple seasons, anticipating them coming out (ala Manning, Bradford, Palmer, Ryan, Eli?). If the answer is NO, then they get put in the pile of

Sanchez, Brohm, Leaf, Freeman (ala; a crapshot with 50/50 odds at best).

So, if its not a Luck or bradford type; I would rather pass than Miss. I'll suck one additional year instead of 4.

 

[CompetitiveEdgeFootball]

I think this is a really interesting class of QBs... Although the blue chip QBs in this draft are a bit below average on the whole.... The 2nd tier is teeming with upside. I think there will be a few gems to be had in the 2nd and 3rd round.

 

[eakfootball]

look at this Kyle Orton throw that was just terrible. Orton is still one of the top 20 QBs in the NFL.

 

[krsone21]

I think this is a really interesting class of QBs... Although the blue chip QBs in this draft are a bit below average on the whole.... The 2nd tier is teeming with upside. I think there will be a few gems to be had in the 2nd and 3rd round.

Good posting there are a couple of QB's in the late first early second that I would much rather draft then spend a high 1st on Gabbert or Newton. Unfortunately for Carolina they don't have their high 2nd round pick so they have to take a chance on Gabbert or Newton even though I still think they should pass.

 

[CompetitiveEdgeFootball]

I think this is a really interesting class of QBs... Although the blue chip QBs in this draft are a bit below average on the whole.... The 2nd tier is teeming with upside. I think there will be a few gems to be had in the 2nd and 3rd round.

Good posting there are a couple of QB's in the late first early second that I would much rather draft then spend a high 1st on Gabbert or Newton. Unfortunately for Carolina they don't have their high 2nd round pick so they have to take a chance on Gabbert or Newton even though I still think they should pass.

The smart thing might be to trade down... There are so many teams with QB as their #1 need, they'd likely find a suitor. However with a new regime in place, and Carolina in full on rebuilding mode, I think they keep the #1 pick and try to ramp up fan interest and sell a lot of newton/gabbert jerseys... Should be one of the more interesting drafts in recent memory.

 

[CompetitiveEdgeFootball]

Interestingly high 1st round QBs are always mentioned in terms of "upside" and "physical tools." Some of the greatest QBs in the league today are mentioned in terms of "coachability" and "work ethic." Maybe scouts and talent evaluators are emphasizing the wrong things, as franchise QBs can be found in virtually every round, but epic, franchise killing "busts" by definition, are only found in the first round.

 

[cobalt_27]

They both scare me to death. But they are both worthy of top five picks with the importance of QBs.

The importance of QBs makes them even less worthy of top-5 selections. The cost in getting these two players at 1-5 would far exceed their return on the investment. Appears you've been duped like a lot of people in inflating these two players because the comparison group is so poor. Put Luck, Barkley, and Moore in the mix this year, I doubt either Cam or Gabbert gets selected in Round 1.

 

[krsone21]

They both scare me to death. But they are both worthy of top five picks with the importance of QBs.

The importance of QBs makes them even less worthy of top-5 selections. The cost in getting these two players at 1-5 would far exceed their return on the investment. Appears you've been duped like a lot of people in inflating these two players because the comparison group is so poor. Put Luck, Barkley, and Moore in the mix this year, I doubt either Cam or Gabbert gets selected in Round 1.

 

[pantherclub]

The scouting community didn't talk themselves into anything.

Both would be top 10 picks in any draft. Teams have to gamble on getting a franchise qb and while one or both of them might bust they have the potential.

Neither is a lock manning type but both are legitimate top tier prospects.

 

[LarryAllen'sJockstrap]

Rick Gosselin was on a local station here in Dallas a couple of weeks ago (after the combine). He gave his top ten players and had Newton in the list; no other QB.

Gosselin said he doesn't watch any tape on prospects, but has 1-2 inside contacts per team and uses them to gauge what the general consensus around the league is heading up to the draft.

Personally, my thoughts on the QBs are as follow: I've only really seen Cam play and he looked good last year; real good. I remember all the hype Locker was getting in 2009 and how he would have been in contention with Bradford as the top player on the board had he come out. Gabbert is intriguing because of his tools and the fact he was a highly touted pro-style prospect coming out of school, but it seems most know little about him. Mallett has looked good and bad when I've watched Arkansas, but the questions about his football IQ and off the field problems would scare me.

Based on the buzz, I think both Netwon and Gabbert will go in the top-5. I wouldn't be surprised to see Locker go Tennessee, Washington or Minnesota. Mallett is probably a late first/early second guy.

QB is unlike any other position when it comes to drafting and it seems like teams are more willing to reach for a QB, because of the impact they have both on the field and selling tickets. We like to look at the perspective of the draft as a whole. I.e., If Newton is considered the 10th-15th best player, we try and slot him around that range to a team that needs a QB. That's not how each team thinks. If the Panthers/Bills/Bengals/Cardinals have need at QB and believe that one of the QBs coming out can be a viable starter or even franchise player, they will take them even if they are ranked as the 10th-15th best prospect in the draft, because when the second round comes around, most likely that player/s won't be there.

 

[footballsavvy]

I see the upside with Cam... I'm just not seeing where the Gabbert hype is coming from though. But what the hell do I know. If pro scouts want him in the top 5 - that says a whole lot more about his chances of success than anyone on these forums.

EDIT: Interesting timing. Rotoworld nugget just posted...

"Sources tell the Miami Herald that NFL teams are worried about Blaine Gabbert's completion percentage on throws of five or more yards.

Gabbert's completion rate reportedly drops "dramatically" beyond five yards, and "more so than most other QBs" in the 2011 class. We've heard this criticism more than once. Gabbert's yards-per-attempt averaged ranked just eighth in the Big 12 conference last season. This will do nothing to dispel the notion that Gabbert is a media and possibly agent-created elite prospect."

 

[pantherclub]

I see the upside with Cam... I'm just not seeing where the Gabbert hype is coming from though. But what the hell do I know. If pro scouts want him in the top 5 - that says a whole lot more about his chances of success than anyone on these forums.EDIT: Interesting timing. Rotoworld nugget just posted... "Sources tell the Miami Herald that NFL teams are worried about Blaine Gabbert's completion percentage on throws of five or more yards.Gabbert's completion rate reportedly drops "dramatically" beyond five yards, and "more so than most other QBs" in the 2011 class. We've heard this criticism more than once. Gabbert's yards-per-attempt averaged ranked just eighth in the Big 12 conference last season. This will do nothing to dispel the notion that Gabbert is a media and possibly agent-created elite prospect."

5 yards?

 

[MDSkinner]

I see the upside with Cam... I'm just not seeing where the Gabbert hype is coming from though. But what the hell do I know. If pro scouts want him in the top 5 - that says a whole lot more about his chances of success than anyone on these forums.EDIT: Interesting timing. Rotoworld nugget just posted... "Sources tell the Miami Herald that NFL teams are worried about Blaine Gabbert's completion percentage on throws of five or more yards.Gabbert's completion rate reportedly drops "dramatically" beyond five yards, and "more so than most other QBs" in the 2011 class. We've heard this criticism more than once. Gabbert's yards-per-attempt averaged ranked just eighth in the Big 12 conference last season. This will do nothing to dispel the notion that Gabbert is a media and possibly agent-created elite prospect."

I don't know if what Rotoworld says is true or not but I know that if Gabbert is actually an agent-created elite prospect then more guys need to get his agent cause it seems to have worked. That said, I think the style of the offense at Mizzou was certainly geared toward the short pass and I have to assume that YPA is a statistic that NFL scouts look at and have evaluated heavily with Gabbert long before Rotoworld mentioned it. I definitely think both Gabbert and Newton seem like potential guys, not lock guys and in both cases you have risk partially because of the style of offense they played in.

 

[CompetitiveEdgeFootball]

I definitely think both Gabbert and Newton seem like potential guys, not lock guys and in both cases you have risk partially because of the style of offense they played in.

It's actually very rare for a QB to come out of college "pro ready" because the vast majority of college offenses are nothing close to pro offenses. The learning curve is something that a lot of QBs just never over come, despite "physical tools" and talent.

 

[Fensalk]

I still believe it has a lot to do with coaching. Every QB has talent, its about the coaching staff bringing out the best in a player. Belichick didn't just find Tom Brady in the late rounds. He also developed Matt Cassell. And let's also not forget he resurrected the career of Vinny Testaverde. Testaverde was considered a bust after his years in Tampa, but Belichick turned him around, too.

 

[metoo]

I still believe it has a lot to do with coaching. Every QB has talent, its about the coaching staff bringing out the best in a player. Belichick didn't just find Tom Brady in the late rounds. He also developed Matt Cassell. And let's also not forget he resurrected the career of Vinny Testaverde. Testaverde was considered a bust after his years in Tampa, but Belichick turned him around, too.

GPThis is why whoever Carolina selects will not be on any of my rosters.

 

[pantherclub]

I see the upside with Cam... I'm just not seeing where the Gabbert hype is coming from though. But what the hell do I know. If pro scouts want him in the top 5 - that says a whole lot more about his chances of success than anyone on these forums.EDIT: Interesting timing. Rotoworld nugget just posted... "Sources tell the Miami Herald that NFL teams are worried about Blaine Gabbert's completion percentage on throws of five or more yards.Gabbert's completion rate reportedly drops "dramatically" beyond five yards, and "more so than most other QBs" in the 2011 class. We've heard this criticism more than once. Gabbert's yards-per-attempt averaged ranked just eighth in the Big 12 conference last season. This will do nothing to dispel the notion that Gabbert is a media and possibly agent-created elite prospect."

I don't know if what Rotoworld says is true or not but I know that if Gabbert is actually an agent-created elite prospect then more guys need to get his agent cause it seems to have worked. That said, I think the style of the offense at Mizzou was certainly geared toward the short pass and I have to assume that YPA is a statistic that NFL scouts look at and have evaluated heavily with Gabbert long before Rotoworld mentioned it. I definitely think both Gabbert and Newton seem like potential guys, not lock guys and in both cases you have risk partially because of the style of offense they played in.

I get that but 5 Yards???????? Thats his range for accuracy. That has to be a typo or something.

 

[metoo]

I see the upside with Cam... I'm just not seeing where the Gabbert hype is coming from though. But what the hell do I know. If pro scouts want him in the top 5 - that says a whole lot more about his chances of success than anyone on these forums.

EDIT: Interesting timing. Rotoworld nugget just posted...

"Sources tell the Miami Herald that NFL teams are worried about Blaine Gabbert's completion percentage on throws of five or more yards.

Gabbert's completion rate reportedly drops "dramatically" beyond five yards, and "more so than most other QBs" in the 2011 class. We've heard this criticism more than once. Gabbert's yards-per-attempt averaged ranked just eighth in the Big 12 conference last season. This will do nothing to dispel the notion that Gabbert is a media and possibly agent-created elite prospect."

I don't know if what Rotoworld says is true or not but I know that if Gabbert is actually an agent-created elite prospect then more guys need to get his agent cause it seems to have worked. That said, I think the style of the offense at Mizzou was certainly geared toward the short pass and I have to assume that YPA is a statistic that NFL scouts look at and have evaluated heavily with Gabbert long before Rotoworld mentioned it. I definitely think both Gabbert and Newton seem like potential guys, not lock guys and in both cases you have risk partially because of the style of offense they played in.

I get that but 5 Yards???????? Thats his range for accuracy. That has to be a typo or something.

Gabbertless than 7 yards. 16 total tds(12 pass/4 rushing)

 

[jurb26]

Didn't read this whole thread but I'll give my thoughts anyway...

I'm not comfortable with either guy as a top 10 pick. I'm not sold on the idea that the "best QB" in any draft is a top 10 player by default because of the positions importance. There are a lot of elite talents in this draft, many of them on the Dline. I'd much rather have a guy I'm far more certain is an elite player than roll the dice with a QB just because QB is important. The fact that the QB position is important doesn't make the players any better or worse. If the talent gap is close, I can understand it. I don't think that is the case with Newton and Gabbert though. I think they are well behind at least 10 players in this draft class.