The ***OFFICIAL*** 2018 Pittsburgh Steelers Thread (1 Viewer)

[Godsbrother]

With only the Bengals and Dolphins head coaching positions open, and Munchak supposedly not being in the running for either, it appears the Steelers may have dodged a bullet.  I was really worried Munchak was going to be leaving for a HC position.  Hopefully none of these new coaches target him as an OC.

 

[Buttonhook]

Back to the Steelers, I'm glad they got rid of Porter, but don't understand firing the RB coach. Def. coordinator and DB coach were much more glaring issues, at least to my untrained eye. 

Totally agree on the firing of Saxon, I don't get it.  Both Conner and Samuels exceeded everyone's expectations this year.  So it makes perfect sense that Tomlin fired him...

These are all interesting but in my gut I have a feeling all sides hug and kiss and AB stays with the Steelers.    

I'm not so sure about that.  There's a darn good chance he's burned his bridges with his teammates, and they're ready to move on from his me-first antics.  I think the team MVP vote for JuJu was a purposeful slap in the face to AB, and his reaction to it only further confirmed their convictions.

 

[Godsbrother]

Totally agree on the firing of Saxon, I don't get it.  Both Conner and Samuels exceeded everyone's expectations this year.  So it makes perfect sense that Tomlin fired him...

I'm not so sure about that.  There's a darn good chance he's burned his bridges with his teammates, and they're ready to move on from his me-first antics.  I think the team MVP vote for JuJu was a purposeful slap in the face to AB, and his reaction to it only further confirmed their convictions.

You could be right though the MVP is voted by the players and not necessarily an indication of how the ownership, front office or coaching staff feels.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Is Munchak an asst hc or just oline?

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

AB said to likely not be a steeler by Rooney. 

The $21mm is dead money in the cap, right?

 

[5-ish Finkle]

Is Munchak an asst hc or just oline?

Think he's just OL, IIRC.  There might have been some scuttlebutt a few years back about giving him the asst. HC title so he couldn't leave unless if was for a HC gig, but I don't think it was anything other than beat types talking it up as a thing to consider.  My short term memory is swiss cheese-y though, sooo.....yeah.

Like most, I like what Munchak's done quite a bit for Pittsburgh.  I have also always felt, with no disrespect intended to him, that he probably is best at doing what he is doing:  teaching players how to play a position.  I've never really seen anything to make me think he'd make that dynamic of a HC(or OC).  That said, there's not a damn thing wrong with being a #%ing great assistant.  

I expect eventually he's going to get his shot somewhere though. Pile of money attached to a HC gig, so no one can blame him for chasing it if/when he finally lands one.  Surprised Green Bay didn't court him more seriously.

 

[Godsbrother]

AB said to likely not be a steeler by Rooney. 

The $21mm is dead money in the cap, right?

Yes.   

I still wouldn't rule out AB's return to the Steelers but I think this interview and Joey Porter's dismissal sends a clear message to AB and the team that ownership has had enough of the off-field drama.   At least I hope it does...

 

[moondog]

AB said to likely not be a steeler by Rooney. 

The $21mm is dead money in the cap, right?

A little context to Art Rooney's comment from Steelers Depot.  I bolded the question and his reply to it--

"

First, let’s back up to the question that he was asked that prompted that response. Article author Gerry Dulac was specific in that. He said that Rooney was asked specifically whether “it would be hard or easy to envision Brown being at training camp”.

This is framing the response, and given the two options, it’s obvious that it’s hard, rather than easy, to envision Brown being with the team right now. Because right now, he’s not even returning Rooney’s phone calls. Rooney was asked, to be clear, if it would be hard or easy to envision Brown being there, and his response was that it would be hard to envision Brown being there. His answer was dictated by the question. And it was also only part of his answer. This was his complete answer:

“As we sit here today, it’s hard to envision that. But there’s no sense on closing the door on anything today. There’s snow on the ground. We don’t have to make those decisions right now”."

https://steelersdepot.com/2019/01/art-rooney-iis-hard-to-envision-remark-hard-to-frame-right-out-of-context/

 

[Steeler]

I don't like this pattern:

L. Blount - walks off field, bad influence on L. Bell, gets cut

J. Harrison - sleeps through meetings, becomes generally a PITA, gets gut

L. Bell - doesn't sign contract, Steelers get vilified for not paying a great player, he'll probably walk this year as an FA

AB - general jackassery off the field, temper tantrums at practice and during games, now he might be traded

Do they need stronger leadership in the locker room from the players?  More discipline from Tomlin?  I don't like this pattern of people being able to force their way out of the Steelers organization by being jerks.  I realize each of these situations is slightly different and I don't fault the Steelers for making any of the moves they made individually, but now that a pattern has emerged I'm concerned and I think/hope Rooney's comments about AB are a step in the right direction to solving this issue.

 

[irish eyes]

I don't like this pattern:

L. Blount - walks off field, bad influence on L. Bell, gets cut

J. Harrison - sleeps through meetings, becomes generally a PITA, gets gut

L. Bell - doesn't sign contract, Steelers get vilified for not paying a great player, he'll probably walk this year as an FA

AB - general jackassery off the field, temper tantrums at practice and during games, now he might be traded

Do they need stronger leadership in the locker room from the players?  More discipline from Tomlin?  I don't like this pattern of people being able to force their way out of the Steelers organization by being jerks.  I realize each of these situations is slightly different and I don't fault the Steelers for making any of the moves they made individually, but now that a pattern has emerged I'm concerned and I think/hope Rooney's comments about AB are a step in the right direction to solving this issue.

Its apparent they zero leadership in the locker room and Tomlin certainly isn't going to discipline anyone. 

 

[Iceman03]

It’s not a let’s discipline this person or that person issue. By all accounts Cam Heyward and Villenuava are high character leaders. What needs to happen is to stop placing talent over character at all costs. I can’t help but wonder if this is a Ben issue too. They’ve let him do whatever he wants for so long other players think they get the same deal. I’m starting to look forward to the post Ben era. His criticism and shunning of James Washington instead of attempting to make a rookie a better player really rubbed me the wrong way this year. How about you’ve been in the league for almost 20 years? Act like it and help fix the kid in private instead of dragging a 22 year old through the mud in the media.

 

[steelers1080]

I don't think AB is back next year, I'm sad to see him go but if he really is disrupting the team I think they should move on and try and rebuild team cohesion. It seems like the Steelers haven't been the Steelers for the last couple years. I'm not sure the team could handle having multiple superstars with a me-first attitude (3 B's). 

Also, I don't know that they voted Juju MVP as a slap to AB, I think it could just have been done since his fumble may have cost them the Saints game and they wanted to show him that they still love him (It was voted for right after the week 16 game before week 17). Raising up one player doesn't necessarily mean they wanted to bash the other. 

If we end up trading AB, I hope it's for a high first, or a late first/early 2nd and a player. I hope it doesn't come off as a later pick because we're just trying to get what we can get. Hopefully the several months before trading is even allowed will help increase our ability to get a decent price for him. Peterson for AB straight up would be a huge win in my book. 

 

[apalmer]

Its apparent they zero leadership in the locker room and Tomlin certainly isn't going to discipline anyone. 

 The same Tomlin who benched AB for the Cincy game with the playoffs on the line?

 

[JoeSteeler]

uh oh - Munchak in consideration for Broncos OC job

 

[Iceman03]

Expanded role for Keith Butler, I don’t know whether to laugh or cry.

 

[moondog]

uh oh - Munchak in consideration for Broncos OC job

A new report says Denver wants to hire him as their OL coach not the OC.   Having family in Denver is going to make it tough for Munchak to say no, IMO.

https://steelersdepot.com/2019/01/report-broncos-still-wanting-to-hire-munchak-away-from-steelers/

 

[Godsbrother]

A new report says Denver wants to hire him as their OL coach not the OC.   Having family in Denver is going to make it tough for Munchak to say no, IMO.

https://steelersdepot.com/2019/01/report-broncos-still-wanting-to-hire-munchak-away-from-steelers/

From what I have heard Munchak and Broncos are finalizing the deal now...

 

[steelers1080]

From what I have heard Munchak and Broncos are finalizing the deal now...

Shirtballs. It's official. 

 

[steelers1080]

Looks like we locked up Munchak's assistant before he could be poached. 

 

[Godsbrother]

Looks like we locked up Munchak's assistant before he could be poached. 

Dulac seemed surprised the Steelers didn't bring a few OL oaches in for a look-see before signing Shaun Sarrett. 

 

[irish eyes]

Munchak gone and the downward spiral continues.  They should have just canned Tomlin and gave munchak the job. This team will not be in the playoffs next year. 

 

[Steeler]

Munchak gone and the downward spiral continues.  They should have just canned Tomlin and gave munchak the job. This team will not be in the playoffs next year. 

Tomlin is a better head coach than Munchak.  Also just because you're a good line coach doesn't mean you would be a good head coach

 

[Bojang0301]

Dulac seemed surprised the Steelers didn't bring a few OL oaches in for a look-see before signing Shaun Sarrett. 

Guy has been with the team longer than Munchak... don’t know if he would have stayed if they brought others in. Seems like it was a succession plan all along. 

 

[Godsbrother]

Tomlin is a better head coach than Munchak.  Also just because you're a good line coach doesn't mean you would be a good head coach

Agreed.  I think Munchak was a great O-line coach but I don't think that his departure means the Steelers are in a downward spiral. 

The clowns on 93.7 The Fan yesterday afternoon were making it sound like Munchak couldn't wait to get out of Pittsburgh but reports are he on good terms with Rooney's and coaching staff and he is making the move to be closer to family.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

I am starting to think it is rebuild mode time next year. I would not restructure Ben and try to get best draft pick compensation possible for AB and tag Bell in accordance with also maximizing a draft pick return. Let tomlin build a team around dobbs or rudolph and the young D and see what happens over 3-5 years. 

 

[irish eyes]

I am starting to think it is rebuild mode time next year. I would not restructure Ben and try to get best draft pick compensation possible for AB and tag Bell in accordance with also maximizing a draft pick return. Let tomlin build a team around dobbs or rudolph and the young D and see what happens over 3-5 years. 

While I don't agree with all of your points, I do believe they missed their window and they may be headed down an ugly road. Haven't seen enough of Dobbs but the little sample size wasn't pretty.

 

[Godsbrother]

I am starting to think it is rebuild mode time next year. I would not restructure Ben and try to get best draft pick compensation possible for AB and tag Bell in accordance with also maximizing a draft pick return. Let tomlin build a team around dobbs or rudolph and the young D and see what happens over 3-5 years. 

I don't think we should be in rebuild mode at all.   We still have Ben and most likely will be extended, the offensive line is among the league's bests and even without AB the offense has weapons with Conner, Samuels, JuJu, Washington and MacDonald.  They'll need to beef that up a bit via FA and/or draft but it should be a solid offense.

The defense still has it's issues but I thought was improved from 2017, especially against the run and getting after the QB.   

Note:  As far as the compensatory pick they should get one for Bell in 2020 but they wouldn't get one if they trade AB.   I assume you meant the trade pick(s) they would get for AB but just wanted to clarify.

 

[Bojang0301]

I am starting to think it is rebuild mode time next year. I would not restructure Ben and try to get best draft pick compensation possible for AB and tag Bell in accordance with also maximizing a draft pick return. Let tomlin build a team around dobbs or rudolph and the young D and see what happens over 3-5 years. 

I don’t think they’re in rebuild mode yet. If they were and I was them I would be tempted to use AB as bait to get up toward the top of the draft and get Haskins. None of this sounds like the way Steelers handle business.

Once clear of Bell and AB the team may not be better from a talent standpoint but they’ll be better in the locker room. JuJu is a #1 and they drafted Washington with a purpose. I don’t care for this years WR class so far but there is an intriguing prospect or two plus ok free agents like Crowder and Moncrief (depending on what role they want to fill). They’ll have a ton of cap space, though I’m not sure what the AB move will do. They seem confident it won’t hurt them. 

 

[Bayhawks]

I am starting to think it is rebuild mode time next year. I would not restructure Ben and try to get best draft pick compensation possible for AB and tag Bell in accordance with also maximizing a draft pick return. Let tomlin build a team around dobbs or rudolph and the young D and see what happens over 3-5 years. 

They "should" rebuild, but they probably won't.  Assuming AB is gone, they will have lost a top-5 NFL RB, a top-5 (#1, maybe?) NFL WR over the last 2 years.  They will have a 37 year old QB.  If they still had the pieces on offense, I'd say do whatever you can to get another title while you have the franchise QB.  As it stands now, they don't have the pieces, so why mortgage the future to be average right now?  Doesn't make sense, but that's probably what they'll do.

That being said, they'd be stupid to tag bell (which means they probably will).  They franchise tag him, they have to pay him the QB tag rate, which will be well over $20M for 1 year.  If they tag him, with the hope of trading him to get a draft pick back, he'd probably sign that immediately, and they'd be on the hook for that massive salary.  Then, other teams would know they want to trade him, and they probably wouldn't get any massive offers. 

If they use the transition tag, Bell wouldn't sign it, and they can't trade him unless he signs it.  But, he'd be able to get offers from other teams that the Steelers would be able to match, if they wanted.  If the Steelers don't match, the other team gets Bell, and the Steelers get no compensation.  The only way the transition tag benefits Pittsburgh is if they match an offer, and the other team still wants Bell bad enough to then trade a pick to Pittsburgh in exchange for Bell at the matched contract.  That's a lot to risk though.  If Pittsburgh tries to do that, they'd be risking a lot.  The other team would be under no obligation to trade for Bell after Pittsburgh matched the offer.  If the other team decides they liked Bell at the offer they made, but not if they have to throw a 3rd round pick on top, the Steelers would be stuck with Bell at a contract they didn't want.  Furthermore, if the Steelers signed Bell, than traded him, I'd assume the same rules apply, with regards to any bonuses he got, that would normally be pro-rated over the entire contract; that is, that cap hit would apply to Pitt's cap immediately.

So, for the Steelers to maximize their draft pick return by tagging Bell, they'd have to use either the franchise tag, have Bells sign for over $20M, and hope another team is willing to trade for him.  OR, they could use the transition tag, match another team's offer, and hope that team is willing to offer a draft pick and trade for him after they match.  And if they do this, they'd probably have to eat the bonuses in the Bell contract as a 2019 cap hit.

Keep in mind that Pittsburgh will likely get a 3rd round comp pick if Bell just signs somewhere as a UFA.  Is the risk of having to pay Bell over $20M for one year, or having to match a long-term contract and absorb a big cap hit in 2019 worth getting a slightly better draft pick?  Because other NFL teams are going to know the situation that Pitt will have put themselves in & aren't going to offer the moon when they know Pitt will need to try Bell.

 

[steelers1080]

This team is not in rebuild mode, we were a handful of points from being 13-3 or better this year. We just need a few tweaks and better kicking. Below are my hopes for the offseason:

• Establish trust and a brotherhood in the coaching staff and locker room
  
• Net improvement at 4 positions. So, if we trade AB, improve at 5 positions to maintain net 4. Possible areas for improvement and areas where we might get worse:
  
  RT - Gilbert is hurt too much, I don't think we can rely on him to stay healthy. Replace him with Feiler or Chuks who will have an offseason to keep improving. Possibly trade Gilbert and get something in return.
  
• Lose AB, but hopefully gain a high pick or new player (even if it's a 2020 pick).
  
• OLB - Dupree seemed to start the season well, but faded fast. I'm hopeful that Watt and Ola can be dominant together, but adding a rusher is very likely, especially if Chickillo and Dupree are gone.
  
• ILB - We're in desperate need here. We don't have a defensive commander outside of Haden, and really you want the ILB organizing people, not a CB. 
  
• CB - Across from Haden we need another competent player. Also we need to lock up Hilton.
  
• NT - Hargrave is great, but he's closer to a DE/DT and better used in pass rushing. We need a run stuffer if possible.
  
• WR - If AB leaves we're in dire need. If AB stays we're still short on depth. If we get a late 1st for AB (after pick 20) I would be surprised if we didn't take a 1st round WR. There are a handful of excellent prospects coming out this year.
  
• LG - Foster is getting older, even if he resigns, we could improve there. 
  
• There's lots of areas we could improve, if we can somehow net 4 improvements from last year to next, I think that our team will be top 4 in the AFC no problem.
  

[*]Rebuild the Steelers mentality. Go after players that really care about the team and really focus on winning over stats. Heyward, Watt, Juju, these are exactly the type of guys we need more of. I don't think that Big Ben really holds with the ideal Steelers character, he seems willing to call people out or throw people under the bus, but he's also a very talented franchise QB. We need him to succeed. If some of the younger guys in the locker room can somehow take charge of leading the team, and Tomlin can rein in Ben, I think that will go a long way towards getting this team focused.

[*]Hire a person to monitor for potential challenges. Tomlin sucks at it and does it in an antiquated way. 

[*]Focus on time management/hire a specialist. If we're down 2 scores in the 4th quarter, don't take all freakin day! You still need time to get the ball back, and there's no guarantee that the other team won't score so it's best to leave yourself with more time. It doesn't seem like they really take time into account until there's under 5 minutes left in the game.

[*]Focus on innovation. We used to be a tricky team to pin down, now we seem so predictable. Trick plays were almost a weekly occurrence, and usually caught our opponents flat footed for a big play. Small things could help our team and they're things that people don't seem to have even thought about. If the RB or WR is running a sweep and it's clearly covered and will result in a loss, throw the damn ball way out of bounds. You're out of the pocket, you just need to get it past the line of scrimmage. We'll just lose 5+ yards on a play where it's completely unnecessary.  One positive example of innovation I've seen recently is the inside shuffle pass, we used that well this year to Juju or Vance several times.



Overall, we're not far off. The main difference between 2018 and 2017 is that instead of winning the close games, we lost them. Our D was definitely better even with Burns and Burnett playing like trash. Our offense seemed pretty much the same after losing one of the top RBs in the league, that's a lot to overcome and Conner and Samuels did very well. I'm sure new hurdles will pop up next season, but I don't think we're all that far behind. We have areas to improve, but if we can draft well and make some FA moves, I have no doubt that we'll be competing for top spot in the AFC North again next year. 

 

[Bayhawks]

I don’t think they’re in rebuild mode yet. If they were and I was them I would be tempted to use AB as bait to get up toward the top of the draft and get Haskins. None of this sounds like the way Steelers handle business.

Once clear of Bell and AB the team may not be better from a talent standpoint but they’ll be better in the locker room. JuJu is a #1 and they drafted Washington with a purpose. I don’t care for this years WR class so far but there is an intriguing prospect or two plus ok free agents like Crowder and Moncrief (depending on what role they want to fill). They’ll have a ton of cap space, though I’m not sure what the AB move will do. They seem confident it won’t hurt them. 

Not sure what your defintion of "ton of cap space" is, but according to overthecap.com, they currently have $27.7M in cap space for 2019.  Trading AB will lead to $21.1M in dead cap, but a bit over $1M in actual cap savings.  So, assuming they trade AB (for just draft picks, no players; because any player's contracts would reduce their cap space), they'd have a little under $29M in 2019 cap space.  That would put them with the 13th least cap space of the 32 NFL teams.

 

[Bayhawks]

This team is not in rebuild mode, we were a handful of points from being 13-3 or better this year. We just need a few tweaks and better kicking. Below are my hopes for the offseason:

• Establish trust and a brotherhood in the coaching staff and locker room
  
• Net improvement at 4 positions. So, if we trade AB, improve at 5 positions to maintain net 4. Possible areas for improvement and areas where we might get worse:
  
  RT - Gilbert is hurt too much, I don't think we can rely on him to stay healthy. Replace him with Feiler or Chuks who will have an offseason to keep improving. Possibly trade Gilbert and get something in return.
  
• Lose AB, but hopefully gain a high pick or new player (even if it's a 2020 pick).
  
• OLB - Dupree seemed to start the season well, but faded fast. I'm hopeful that Watt and Ola can be dominant together, but adding a rusher is very likely, especially if Chickillo and Dupree are gone.
  
• ILB - We're in desperate need here. We don't have a defensive commander outside of Haden, and really you want the ILB organizing people, not a CB. 
  
• CB - Across from Haden we need another competent player. Also we need to lock up Hilton.
  
• NT - Hargrave is great, but he's closer to a DE/DT and better used in pass rushing. We need a run stuffer if possible.
  
• WR - If AB leaves we're in dire need. If AB stays we're still short on depth. If we get a late 1st for AB (after pick 20) I would be surprised if we didn't take a 1st round WR. There are a handful of excellent prospects coming out this year.
  
• LG - Foster is getting older, even if he resigns, we could improve there. 
  
• There's lots of areas we could improve, if we can somehow net 4 improvements from last year to next, I think that our team will be top 4 in the AFC no problem.
  

[*]Rebuild the Steelers mentality. Go after players that really care about the team and really focus on winning over stats. Heyward, Watt, Juju, these are exactly the type of guys we need more of. I don't think that Big Ben really holds with the ideal Steelers character, he seems willing to call people out or throw people under the bus, but he's also a very talented franchise QB. We need him to succeed. If some of the younger guys in the locker room can somehow take charge of leading the team, and Tomlin can rein in Ben, I think that will go a long way towards getting this team focused.

[*]Hire a person to monitor for potential challenges. Tomlin sucks at it and does it in an antiquated way. 

[*]Focus on time management/hire a specialist. If we're down 2 scores in the 4th quarter, don't take all freakin day! You still need time to get the ball back, and there's no guarantee that the other team won't score so it's best to leave yourself with more time. It doesn't seem like they really take time into account until there's under 5 minutes left in the game.

[*]Focus on innovation. We used to be a tricky team to pin down, now we seem so predictable. Trick plays were almost a weekly occurrence, and usually caught our opponents flat footed for a big play. Small things could help our team and they're things that people don't seem to have even thought about. If the RB or WR is running a sweep and it's clearly covered and will result in a loss, throw the damn ball way out of bounds. You're out of the pocket, you just need to get it past the line of scrimmage. We'll just lose 5+ yards on a play where it's completely unnecessary.  One positive example of innovation I've seen recently is the inside shuffle pass, we used that well this year to Juju or Vance several times.



Overall, we're not far off. The main difference between 2018 and 2017 is that instead of winning the close games, we lost them. Our D was definitely better even with Burns and Burnett playing like trash. Our offense seemed pretty much the same after losing one of the top RBs in the league, that's a lot to overcome and Conner and Samuels did very well. I'm sure new hurdles will pop up next season, but I don't think we're all that far behind. We have areas to improve, but if we can draft well and make some FA moves, I have no doubt that we'll be competing for top spot in the AFC North again next year. 

That's a lot of stuff to need to do and stll say "we're not that far off."  They don't have a lot of cap room (and don't usually make big splashes in FA), so you're hoping to fix all those areas through the draft and internal changes?  That's far-fetched.  How are they realistically going to improve at 5 of those positions (assuming AB gone)?  With regards to the other stuff, why would you suddenly expect Tomlin to reign in Ben, hire a challenge specialist, get better at time management, focus on innovation, etc?  These have all been issues for years, and except for firing their RB coach, they didn't make any changes to the offensive coaches, did they?

Your list of problems is more of an argument in favor of rebuilding than saying "we're really close."

 

[Bojang0301]

Not sure what your defintion of "ton of cap space" is, but according to overthecap.com, they currently have $27.7M in cap space for 2019.  Trading AB will lead to $21.1M in dead cap, but a bit over $1M in actual cap savings.  So, assuming they trade AB (for just draft picks, no players; because any player's contracts would reduce their cap space), they'd have a little under $29M in 2019 cap space.  That would put them with the 13th least cap space of the 32 NFL teams.

13th worst is way better than previous seasons. Also can’t discount Ben is going to extend and creative accounting with bonuses. I think “ton of cap” was probably over the top considering you’re right about AB’s cap hit but they’ll have flexibility entering the offseason. 

 

[Buttonhook]

I think losing Bell and AB could actually be a positive for the team.  Everyone freaked out when Bell didn't report and it clearly motivated the team to prove they can win despite Bell, and to even go so far as to publicly question his commitment to the team.  And rumor has it that the team was going to force AB to not play in the Cincy game if Tomlin didn't sit him.  It's hard to quantify how much of a negative affect these malcontents had in the locker room, during practices, etc. but clearly the rest of the team is ready to move on from both of them. 

So while we are clearly losing two superstars, it's absolutely plausible that we see a more solidified team and, with a few upgrades at key positions, one that still has enough talent to make the playoffs next year.  At the same time, I can't help but think that these players are also well aware of the lack of urgency and in-game management skills from the HC position, and until that changes I wonder how much confidence this team will actually carry into next year.   

 

[Godsbrother]

That's a lot of stuff to need to do and stll say "we're not that far off."  They don't have a lot of cap room (and don't usually make big splashes in FA), so you're hoping to fix all those areas through the draft and internal changes?  That's far-fetched.  How are they realistically going to improve at 5 of those positions (assuming AB gone)?  With regards to the other stuff, why would you suddenly expect Tomlin to reign in Ben, hire a challenge specialist, get better at time management, focus on innovation, etc?  These have all been issues for years, and except for firing their RB coach, they didn't make any changes to the offensive coaches, did they?

Your list of problems is more of an argument in favor of rebuilding than saying "we're really close."

I don't want to speak for Steelers1080 but I don't think he was suggesting that all would be fixed in one year, he was just listing some of the issues as he saw them.  I am sure that you could make a list of of weaknesses for any team that they would like to address in the offseason.  The question is which are the most urgent and how many of those can be fixed.

You seem to think the Steelers are a bunch of bumbling idiots that do not know how to run a football team.  I think the opposite: they aren't perfect but in general they do a pretty good job fielding a competitive team year after year.     Time will tell for 2019:  We'll just need to let the off season unfold and see how it all plays out.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

I think losing Bell and AB could actually be a positive for the team.  Everyone freaked out when Bell didn't report and it clearly motivated the team to prove they can win despite Bell, and to even go so far as to publicly question his commitment to the team.  And rumor has it that the team was going to force AB to not play in the Cincy game if Tomlin didn't sit him.  It's hard to quantify how much of a negative affect these malcontents had in the locker room, during practices, etc. but clearly the rest of the team is ready to move on from both of them. 

So while we are clearly losing two superstars, it's absolutely plausible that we see a more solidified team and, with a few upgrades at key positions, one that still has enough talent to make the playoffs next year.  At the same time, I can't help but think that these players are also well aware of the lack of urgency and in-game management skills from the HC position, and until that changes I wonder how much confidence this team will actually carry into next year.   

AB not being out there vs cinci really showed how the offense needs him opening things up. 

 

[steelers1080]

That's a lot of stuff to need to do and stll say "we're not that far off."  They don't have a lot of cap room (and don't usually make big splashes in FA), so you're hoping to fix all those areas through the draft and internal changes?  That's far-fetched.  How are they realistically going to improve at 5 of those positions (assuming AB gone)?  With regards to the other stuff, why would you suddenly expect Tomlin to reign in Ben, hire a challenge specialist, get better at time management, focus on innovation, etc?  These have all been issues for years, and except for firing their RB coach, they didn't make any changes to the offensive coaches, did they?

Your list of problems is more of an argument in favor of rebuilding than saying "we're really close."

Well, it is a lot, but usually we lose 2-3 free agents and still improve at a couple positions. This year we're going to lose AB, we're not losing a lot of other important starters that played for us in 2018 (Bell didn't play). Also, the Steelers have about $20 million more in cap space than they usually have at this point in the year. I don't think it's implausible for the Steelers to sign 2 free agents that help add something, and get 2 draft picks that help improve the team.

The bar is set so low at some positions that it really won't take much to be deemed an improvement.  I also stated that we have some players in-house that could get a shot next year and be an improvement over the current starter after a full season/offseason of work with the team (Ola at OLB and Feiler/Chuks at RT over Feiler's play this year being thrust into the position). If there is improvement there, that means that we'd only need 2-3 solid pickups through FA and the draft. 

The other half of the list, the other half of the things I'd like to see were more of a wish list of how to best optimize the team, not what I think will necessarily happen or things that HAVE to happen to make them a potential champion. You're right in that many of the things I wished for were changes that could have been implemented in the past and weren't, but I'll still hope that we do in the future. 

This team's worst loss was by 12 points to our rival Ravens, a team that knows the Steelers better than any other in the league. We were able to beat the Patriots and lost a handful of games at the end of the season when we had a lead in the 4th quarter. Losing a lead is not a good thing, but the point is that we weren't ever dominated. We played teams close and just weren't able to finish. I think that with a handful of doable improvements, we'll be able to finish next year.

This is definitely an optimistic outlook, but I think the team has the tools to vastly improve next season. 

Also, just realized that the AB dead cap isn't additional dead cap. I was thinking they meant that instead of $27 mil cap space we'd be down to $6, but that's not it at all. We'd have $28 from trading him. If we also get rid of Dupree, Burnett, and Gilbert that would add $17.8 million. I know there's talk of extending Ben, Pouncey, Foster, and Hargrave, but we'll still have money to work with for the first time in a long time. 

 

[Steeler]

This is definitely an optimistic outlook, but I think the team has the tools to vastly improve next season. 

And why not be optimistic at this point?  

 

[Godsbrother]

Also, just realized that the AB dead cap isn't additional dead cap. I was thinking they meant that instead of $27 mil cap space we'd be down to $6, but that's not it at all. We'd have $28 from trading him. If we also get rid of Dupree, Burnett, and Gilbert that would add $17.8 million. I know there's talk of extending Ben, Pouncey, Foster, and Hargrave, but we'll still have money to work with for the first time in a long time. 

Extensions can sometimes lower the cap hit in the initial year...

 

[Bayhawks]

I don't want to speak for Steelers1080 but I don't think he was suggesting that all would be fixed in one year, he was just listing some of the issues as he saw them.  I am sure that you could make a list of of weaknesses for any team that they would like to address in the offseason.  The question is which are the most urgent and how many of those can be fixed.

You seem to think the Steelers are a bunch of bumbling idiots that do not know how to run a football team.  I think the opposite: they aren't perfect but in general they do a pretty good job fielding a competitive team year after year.     Time will tell for 2019:  We'll just need to let the off season unfold and see how it all plays out.

Sorry, I don't think that, but you're right that my posts do indicate that.  I should try to word things more carefully.  My Redskins are the example of a bunch of bumbling idiots that do not know how to run a football team.

I think that the last few years, the Steelers have "gotten worse" in how they've run their team; starting with Harrison being given a pass when he slapped around his kid's mother, continuing with the way in which Polamolu left, how they "retired" Arians, to how they handled Brown's contract demands, then Bell's situation, and now how their treatment of AB has gotten them to this point.  Now, they have a franchise QB whose career is winding down & the window to take advantage of him is winding down.  My favorite Steeler before Bell was Troy, so I didn't like seeing how he left, I didn't like seeing how Bell's situation unfolded (I know the reality of the value of RBs in the NFL, but they could've offered a better deal, IMO), and my son's favorite Steeler is (was?) Brown and it's hard explaining to him what's happening to this team. 

 

[Bayhawks]

Well, it is a lot, but usually we lose 2-3 free agents and still improve at a couple positions. This year we're going to lose AB, we're not losing a lot of other important starters that played for us in 2018 (Bell didn't play). Also, the Steelers have about $20 million more in cap space than they usually have at this point in the year. I don't think it's implausible for the Steelers to sign 2 free agents that help add something, and get 2 draft picks that help improve the team.

The bar is set so low at some positions that it really won't take much to be deemed an improvement.  I also stated that we have some players in-house that could get a shot next year and be an improvement over the current starter after a full season/offseason of work with the team (Ola at OLB and Feiler/Chuks at RT over Feiler's play this year being thrust into the position). If there is improvement there, that means that we'd only need 2-3 solid pickups through FA and the draft. 

The other half of the list, the other half of the things I'd like to see were more of a wish list of how to best optimize the team, not what I think will necessarily happen or things that HAVE to happen to make them a potential champion. You're right in that many of the things I wished for were changes that could have been implemented in the past and weren't, but I'll still hope that we do in the future. 

This team's worst loss was by 12 points to our rival Ravens, a team that knows the Steelers better than any other in the league. We were able to beat the Patriots and lost a handful of games at the end of the season when we had a lead in the 4th quarter. Losing a lead is not a good thing, but the point is that we weren't ever dominated. We played teams close and just weren't able to finish. I think that with a handful of doable improvements, we'll be able to finish next year.

This is definitely an optimistic outlook, but I think the team has the tools to vastly improve next season. 

Also, just realized that the AB dead cap isn't additional dead cap. I was thinking they meant that instead of $27 mil cap space we'd be down to $6, but that's not it at all. We'd have $28 from trading him. If we also get rid of Dupree, Burnett, and Gilbert that would add $17.8 million. I know there's talk of extending Ben, Pouncey, Foster, and Hargrave, but we'll still have money to work with for the first time in a long time. 

It's a very optimistic outlook.  While it could happen, I doubt all (or most of those things) happen.  While the Steelers have more money than they ahve in the past, they still are in the bottom 1/3 of teams in cap space.  They won't be able to get many (any?) high impact FA's.  With regards to the in-house players being better than the current starters, while that could happen, it's a lot to ask for to expect them to have that happen in 4-5 positions.  Furthermore, when you go from AB to JuJu at WR1, you go from Juju to Washington at WR2, that is a HUGE drop.  If you increase marginally at one other position, that doesn't make up for going from 2 Pro-Bowl WRs to 1 Pro-Bowl WR and crap afterwards.

 

[Godsbrother]

Sorry, I don't think that, but you're right that my posts do indicate that.  I should try to word things more carefully.  My Redskins are the example of a bunch of bumbling idiots that do not know how to run a football team.

I think that the last few years, the Steelers have "gotten worse" in how they've run their team; starting with Harrison being given a pass when he slapped around his kid's mother, continuing with the way in which Polamolu left, how they "retired" Arians, to how they handled Brown's contract demands, then Bell's situation, and now how their treatment of AB has gotten them to this point.  Now, they have a franchise QB whose career is winding down & the window to take advantage of him is winding down.  My favorite Steeler before Bell was Troy, so I didn't like seeing how he left, I didn't like seeing how Bell's situation unfolded (I know the reality of the value of RBs in the NFL, but they could've offered a better deal, IMO), and my son's favorite Steeler is (was?) Brown and it's hard explaining to him what's happening to this team. 

I agree with you that they could have handled some of those situations better but I think the AB situation is 95% about him acting like a selfish baby.

 

[Bayhawks]

I agree with you that they could have handled some of those situations better but I think the AB situation is 95% about him acting like a selfish baby.

It might be 95% now, but at one point it was less (doesn't make much sense to argue about hwo much less), and one of the main reasons that it is as high as 95% now is because of how the Steelers have handled him.

When he complained about his contract, they re-adjusted his contract earlier than their self-imposed rules said they should have.  When he was putting stuff on social media in the locker room, they didn't do anything.  When he skipped TC and was seen in FL, they didn't do anything.  When he threw tantrums on the sidelines because someone else scored against him, they didn't do anything.  When he skipped meetings, they didn't do anything.  

Ultimately, responsibility rests with the players, but they gave him such a long leash, they shouldn't be too surprised how he acts.

 

[Godsbrother]

When he complained about his contract, they re-adjusted his contract earlier than their self-imposed rules said they should have.  When he was putting stuff on social media in the locker room, they didn't do anything.  When he skipped TC and was seen in FL, they didn't do anything.  When he threw tantrums on the sidelines because someone else scored against him, they didn't do anything.  When he skipped meetings, they didn't do anything.  

Ultimately, responsibility rests with the players, but they gave him such a long leash, they shouldn't be too surprised how he acts.

Brown's contract was adjusted to give him an additional 2 million or so in what was it, 2016 or 2016?  They didn't have to do it but had they not he might have held out.  In any case it seemed like a good move at the time and AB was happy enough to sign an extension in 2017.   I don't think that was an issue that would lead to Brown's poor behavior.

The other stuff is tough to comment on because we really don't know what the Steelers did internally.  You say they didn't do anything but reports are they did attempt to handle the situation several times.  I guess you could say whatever they did was not enough and that's fair.  Maybe they should have benched him earlier but we all see how well AB reacted to that after the Bengals game.

According to Gerry Dulac there was a noticeable difference in AB's demeanor at mini-camp and carried through the preseason and season.  And then there are the reports of some of offseason tantrums and altercations.   Perhaps AB's issues are beyond the football field.  If I was a team that wanted to trade for him this is what I would be worried about.

 

[steelers1080]

If I was the Steelers FO I would do everything in my power to praise what a great teammate AB is and how it was mostly Ben and that the whole thing is overblown. Any decent GM doesn't want a poison pill in the locker room and even the not as good GMs will know to pay less for a headache.  If we end up having to trade AB, I hope it's not at a discount because of how poorly this whole situation has been played. 

Also, if the Steelers get rid of Gilbert, Dupree, and Burnett then they'll have $44+ million in cap space and be top 12 in the league. 

The Colts and Jets have a preposterous amount of cap space, they'll have to spend a lot soon or start getting penalties. Any chance we could trade AB to the Colts for a 2nd and 2020 3rd and they take his $20+ mil in dead cap? (Their GM would never do this, but hypotheticals are fun.)

 

[Bayhawks]

If I was the Steelers FO I would do everything in my power to praise what a great teammate AB is and how it was mostly Ben and that the whole thing is overblown. Any decent GM doesn't want a poison pill in the locker room and even the not as good GMs will know to pay less for a headache.  If we end up having to trade AB, I hope it's not at a discount because of how poorly this whole situation has been played. 

Also, if the Steelers get rid of Gilbert, Dupree, and Burnett then they'll have $44+ million in cap space and be top 12 in the league. 

The Colts and Jets have a preposterous amount of cap space, they'll have to spend a lot soon or start getting penalties. Any chance we could trade AB to the Colts for a 2nd and 2020 3rd and they take his $20+ mil in dead cap? (Their GM would never do this, but hypotheticals are fun.)

Don’t think that works in the NFL; although the browns did trad3 for osweiler then cut him.

 

[steelers1080]

Don’t think that works in the NFL; although the browns did trad3 for osweiler then cut him.

I don't think they can do it for restructured money, only guaranteed future money. 

Also, I wonder how much defensive play calling Butler is actually allowed to do. Tomlin was talking about how it was his fault on the Hogan TD because he was arguing with the refs and didn't get the play call in on time. He could argue to his hearts content if Butler was doing the play calling.  I'd be interested in knowing when each called the plays if they split it. 

 

[JoeSteeler]

I don't think they can do it for restructured money, only guaranteed future money. 

Also, I wonder how much defensive play calling Butler is actually allowed to do. Tomlin was talking about how it was his fault on the Hogan TD because he was arguing with the refs and didn't get the play call in on time. He could argue to his hearts content if Butler was doing the play calling.  I'd be interested in knowing when each called the plays if they split it. 

WOW didn't hear that

 

[menobrown]

Rooney sat down with 7 reporters today. Discussed AB a good amount, posted that in AB thread.

Other key notes and I'm paraphrasing some:

*happy with RB's with Samuels/Conner

*seemed as surprised as anyone that Bell would actually sit on the season, I believe he said "who does that" or something of that nature

*Would not commit to extending Tomlin right now, said they will look at that later in the offseason.

*Talked to Tomlin about having someone assist him with challenge calls

*Seemed highly put off by suggestions the team was  a circus or out of control. Instead seems to have opinion that the kicking game was the major issue and team barely missed playoffs.

 

[steelers1080]

Rooney sat down with 7 reporters today. Discussed AB a good amount, posted that in AB thread.

Other key notes and I'm paraphrasing some:

*happy with RB's with Samuels/Conner

*seemed as surprised as anyone that Bell would actually sit on the season, I believe he said "who does that" or something of that nature

*Would not commit to extending Tomlin right now, said they will look at that later in the offseason.

*Talked to Tomlin about having someone assist him with challenge calls

*Seemed highly put off by suggestions the team was  a circus or out of control. Instead seems to have opinion that the kicking game was the major issue and team barely missed playoffs.

I'm most excited about this! He said challenges and time management, that wasting even 5 or 10 seconds when time is critical is not acceptable. He also said that it would have to be someone that adds to the coaching staff, so maybe someone that helps during the week and is in the booth on game day. Either way, this is great news (if they actually follow through). 

WOW didn't hear that

Yeah, it was shocking to me, I didn't know that Tomlin even called defensive plays.