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The "OK" Hand Gesture - Racist? False Flag? Hoax? Other? (1 Viewer)

Joe Bryant said:
Thanks to @Slapdash for sharing this info from Parker Malloy. https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1206068831485075456.html

Ms. Mallow is Editor-at-large of Media Matters.

I thought it was interesting and helpful. 

Wondering what you thought?
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I haven't visited the site in weeks, but wtf is this? 

Your site had already made a ruling on it. Dont ask for opinions now. You got rid of the ok emoji. 

It was too controversial to keep around here, so you all axed it.

Seriously... what is the point of this question now? Someone outside of the site made a point, so that should be discussed now?

🙂

 
Ramblin Wreck said:
U.S. Military Academy

@WestPoint_USMA

The investigating officer concluded that the cadets were playing a common game, popular among teenagers today, known as the “circle game” and the intent was not associated with ideologies or movements that are contrary to the Army values.

Looks like several folks in here owe these guys an apology
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But you do that to a person, not the camera.

 
Ramblin Wreck said:
U.S. Military Academy

@WestPoint_USMA

The investigating officer concluded that the cadets were playing a common game, popular among teenagers today, known as the “circle game” and the intent was not associated with ideologies or movements that are contrary to the Army values.

Looks like several folks in here owe these guys an apology
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We can assume this is true because the military has never covered up bad behavior of its members. 

 
Widbil83 said:
Ramblin Wreck said:
So you're saying we shouldn't trust the results of a government investigation?  Interesting
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But we must trust the great Lt. Col. Vindman. Amazing how this works.
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I would think that you could see the difference between these things. Most notably that we all could listen to or read the sworn testimony given by the Lt Col. Where as the other, all we have is the official ruling without any of the fact finding behind it.

I tend to believe the US Military Academy in this case, for the record

 
I wonder if the media realizes this isn't support for Trump as much as a flip the bird response to the elites that have brought us the idiocy that is outrage culture. Maybe, Kittle, like a real man in this culture has a time and chance to make the sign to those who "get 'r' done" and watch and wait for better men -- and all those unfortunateness that brings -- to sympathize. 

Because a whole lot of people don't want fight about gender identity and bathrooms and War On Chistamases and the like, they need and want the trains to be on time, be it a metaphor at an armed service game or just a sentiment. 

I note our ok is missing. 

Here is mine in response to both the #######s who made it a big thing and those who chose to fan the flames of their meme discontent.  

Okay?  

 
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Joe Bryant said:
Did you think the same of the Naval Academy guy?
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It appears he did not:

squistion said:
Another historical look at the OK sign in a 2018 article by David Neiwart of the Southern Poverty Law Center and covers much of the same ground as in the OP link.

Southern Poverty Law Center‏ @splcenter 18h18 hours ago

Wondering about the "OK" symbol flashed during the Army-Navy game yesterday? Read our analysis of the history and meaning to learn more about this seemingly harmless gesture:

https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2018/09/18/ok-sign-white-power-symbol-or-just-right-wing-troll

From the above link:

So what does it mean when someone flashes the OK sign? In the end, it can mean almost anything, but primarily it’s one of three things:

- It can be a harmless use of its traditional meaning that all’s well.

- It can be an ironic attempt to troll liberals with a symbol chosen to “trigger” their inner “SJWs.”

- It can be a surreptitious way of signaling your presence to other white supremacists.

The first of these (and its most common, but also most declining, use) is harmless. But it can’t credibly be claimed by anyone who has a record of involvement with the many far-right elements that swirl both around the Trump White House and outside it as well. Nor can it be claimed by street-protesting Proud Boys chanting far-right slogans.

The second is less directly harmful, but hardly innocent of wreaking havoc. The normalization of the radical right under the rhetorical protection of self-proclaimed “centrists” and “libertarians,” particularly those who spread conspiracy theories and are often labeled the “alt-lite,” is a legacy that could last a generation or longer.

The third is, of course, reflective of a toxic worldview and authoritarian politics, bent primarily on the destruction of liberal democracy. At the moment, it remains the smallest bloc of the three.

Yet trolling culture, the ethos that fuels the second motivation, has proven a direct gateway not just to the alt-right, but also to even more poisonous cultures such as that of woman-hating “incels”. It’s one thing to shrug off misbehavior by embracing the “troll” label, but it still means you’re a participant in a toxic subculture. It's easy for the second motivation to morph into the third.

So when someone flashes the “OK sign” with that knowing smirk, it’s not just a harmless act that can be dismissed. It may or may not mean that they are a white nationalist attempting a sly signal. But the sign unquestionably identifies the user as one thing: a troll.
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The assumption, of course, is that he posted this article link because he agrees with it.  But if we could hear from him directly for clarification that would be even better.

 
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Joe Bryant said:
Did you think the same of the Naval Academy guy?
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Not at all because none of them had raised their hand and were waving in a traditional OK sign, but had it down at waist level or below.

I will give Kittle the benefit of the doubt pending further information. 

 
squistion said:
Not at all because none of them had raised their hand and were waving in a traditional OK sign, but had it down at waist level or below.

I will give Kittle the benefit of the doubt pending further information. 
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You didn't think the service guys ok sign was "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar." because they weren't waving and it was below the waist? Thanks for the feedback. 

 
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squistion said:
Not at all because none of them had raised their hand and were waving in a traditional OK sign, but had it down at waist level or below.

I will give Kittle the benefit of the doubt pending further information. 
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Wow.  I'm just about speechless.  Thanks for posting this, though.

 
adonis said:
The point remains that there still remain non-racist explanations for this behavior that seem to make more sense than these guys either trolling white power signs in public, or actually promoting white supremacy in public, in uniform, on tv, in full dress, around other minorities.

Could it be they're really that twisted/deranged?  Sure...but without any good reason to think they are, it seems more reasonable to chalk it up to them being stupid in ways we don't understand, yet assume these barely out of high school guys are fully aware of the societal and broader political context of their actions and how they'll be received.
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This is why the bold section makes sense to people.

It's happening in a number of places in this country.  Because a subgroup of young people think it's funny.

 
Ha!  Was playing around with watch faces on my new Samsung watch, and sure enough they have the "circle" for a watch face.  Can find a picture, and I'm to lazy at this moment to post one.

 
lets say that white nationalists really DO use the OK symbol

they make up what ... 0.0000001% of the total population ?

if so, why don't the 99.99999 % of the people take the OK symbol back and declare  its NOT racist

its insane to let such an exceptional minority dictate the vast majority .... that power they do NOT have, its the 99.99999% that is giving it to them :(

 
Stealthycat said:
lets say that white nationalists really DO use the OK symbol

they make up what ... 0.0000001% of the total population ?

if so, why don't the 99.99999 % of the people take the OK symbol back and declare  its NOT racist

its insane to let such an exceptional minority dictate the vast majority .... that power they do NOT have, its the 99.99999% that is giving it to them :(
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Go ahead and use the OK symbol. If you use it in proper context, or are actually playing a game with your friends, nobody gives a flying ####. I am not even sure why some of you are seem so angry over this. 

 
Stealthycat said:
lets say that white nationalists really DO use the OK symbol

they make up what ... 0.0000001% of the total population ?

if so, why don't the 99.99999 % of the people take the OK symbol back and declare  its NOT racist

its insane to let such an exceptional minority dictate the vast majority .... that power they do NOT have, its the 99.99999% that is giving it to them :(
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Internet trolls invented this apparently and it has been copied by racists is the problem.

If people want to make the sign it’s not going to be the end of the world but in certain circumstances you are going to be asked about it.

This isn’t complicated.

 
Henry Ford said:
This is why the bold section makes sense to people.

It's happening in a number of places in this country.  Because a subgroup of young people think it's funny.
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Haven't small numbers of young people always found crossing lines funny?  Find the current issues of the day and show their lack of respect for norms of the adult world?

The example you show above is what I'd consider normal.  It's a clear signal, clearly across the line, they had to know they'd face punishment but did it for the laughs I guess?  What's the worst that can happen to them - expulsion?  Go to some other school?  Ok.

The cadets/midshipmen - I still have trouble understanding why they'd risk their careers to troll folks.  I'm not blanketly defending all possible white supremacist trolling, but in this case I still can't avoid thinking the simplest explanation is the one most likely to be true.

 
squistion said:
It would be an admission that they are no longer in the closet. 
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That's not how it works.  Since it was co-opted by white power groups it would be a white power group symbol.

Unless, of course, you mean that if they only raise it no higher than the waist level you'll give them the benefit of the doubt? 😉

 
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