The overlooked Charger - Marcus McNeill (1 Viewer)

[Banger]

In the recent Charger run we've obviously heard a lot about LT (deservedly so) and the meteoric rise of Rivers to the top of the QB chart but a little known player that I believe is being overlooked as a main cog in this Charger offense is Marcus McNeill. He, like Rivers, has made what is usually a very difficult transition as a 1st year starter at a difficult position (see Gallery) look rather easy. He's a rookie left tackle protecting Rivers blind side and has not only held his own but won the Rookie Offensive player of the month his 1st month. Here he is in action this weekend vs. the Bronc's McNeill

Not only is he playing with two broken hands but he's blowing people off the line and finally giving LT some gaping holes to run through. SD was ranked as the 24th best (or worst) offensive line by FBG's coming into the season. Footballoutsiders have them ranked as the #2 run blocking unit as of this week.

The Chargers have totally turned their line over from 2003 and it appears with guys like RT Shane Olivia (3 years exp), C Nick Hardwick (3 years), LG Kris Deilman (3), and the hulking LT McNeill (1) the Chargers could have a dominant line for years to come. Consider that they have Gates, LT and Rivers locked up long term and young stars in the making on the defense with Castillo ('05 draft), Merriman ('05 draft) and Cromartie ('06 draft) (ranked in top 10 by football outsiders in yards per pass stat).

AJ deserves some major props for excellent drafts and keeping room under the cap. This team looks like it could be a dynasty in the making.

 

[Bri]

It'll be interesting/sad to see how the degenerative condition affects him if at all.

 

[Native]

I wanted the Dolphins to take him in round one this year. Couldntbelieve he fell all thw way to rd 2. Great pickup by the Chargers.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Great post Banger. McNeil has been far better than advertised, even playing with broken hands.

AJ Smith has been the best GM in football over the past 2-3 seasons, IMO.

 

[The Jacket]

The entire Charger line has been massively underrated for a while now. LT's awesome, but people make out like he runs behind 5 CFL linemen. It's not even close to being the case.

 

[Banger]

AJ Smith has been the best GM in football over the past 2-3 seasons, IMO.

No doubt. He's locked up young players long term and got tremendous production out of a number of draft picks. These are just some of the players but look at their drafts over the last 3 years....'06 - Cromartie (1st), McNeill (2nd)'05 - Merriman (1st), Castillo (1st), Vincent Jackson (2nd)'04 - Rivers (1st), Olshansky (2nd), Kaeding (3rd), Hardwick (3rd), Shawn Phillips (4th), Michael Turner (5th), Shane Olivea (7th), Diehlman (undrafted FA).I'm sure I'm forgetting some players and I'm sure a few more from the '05/'06 draft class will step up this year and next just as the '04 draft class is blossoming now.

 

[Banger]

The entire Charger line has been massively underrated for a while now. LT's awesome, but people make out like he runs behind 5 CFL linemen. It's not even close to being the case.

It was the case in '03 and last year they were a work in progress. This year the '04 draft picks of Hardwick, Olivea and Dielman have gelled and with the addition of McNeill at LT have become a good asset as opposed to a liability.These stats are from STATS LLC.Player/ Games/ False Starts /Holding /SacksMarcus McNeill 10 3 0 2.5Kris Dielman 10 1 1 1.5Nick Hardwick 10 1 0 2.5Mike Goff 10 0 0 0 Shane Olivea 10 3 1 2.5

 

[tommyGunZ]

'04 - Rivers (1st), Olshansky (2nd), Kaeding (3rd), Hardwick (3rd), Shawn Phillips (4th), Michael Turner (5th), Shane Olivea (7th), Diehlman (undrafted FA).

I wonder if any team has ever had a better single draft than this one. Franchise QB, 3 long term starting OL, long term K, long term DL, long term OLB, and best backup RB in the NFL.That's 8 of the Chargers top 25-26 players, from one draft.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Dont forget manumaleuma, and LoNeal.

I have been very surprised by the bolts oline, I thought they might be doomed without Oben in the line-up.

 

[Gr00vus]

all around

McNeill's been great since day one in preseason and it's carried over.

A.J. Smith has done an amazing job with the Chargers, absolutely amazing.

I'd also like to see the receivers get a bit more credit than people give them - they've been running great routes and making tough catches all year. None of them stands out individually but as a group they've made Rivers's life much easier this year.

 

[Cowboys#1]

lets revisit the 06 draft thread

mcneil was a guy i was BEGGING the cowboys to take in the middle of the 1st.

no no, we'll take Bobby 6 snaps a game Carpenter instead.. not saying Carpenter wont be good but McNeil could have been an every down player right off the bat for us... at a position we sorely need help in.

 

[tommyGunZ]

I'd also like to see the receivers get a bit more credit than people give them - they've been running great routes and making tough catches all year. None of them stands out individually but as a group they've made Rivers's life much easier this year.

Rivers is very Brady-like in that respect - he spreads the ball to whomever is open so it's unlikely that you'll see one guy consistently putting up big numbers, which of course leads casual fans to mistakenly believe the Chargers have weak WRs because of the low counting numbers.Overall, the Bolts have one of the deepest WR corps in the NFL. McCardell, Parker, and VJackson are all extremely dependable, and Malcom Floyd is a fantastic red zone option who is becoming more and more of a playmaker.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

It'll be interesting/sad to see how the degenerative condition affects him if at all.

After their medical people checked and rechecked and then checked out McNeill again, the Chargers deemed the concerns immaterial.

“We're very, very conscious of the medical report,” Assistant General Manager Buddy Nix said. “You can't put that much money in the guy and him not physically be able.”

Nix pointed out that McNeill, a four-year starter and two-time All-SEC honoree, has not missed a practice in two years after having to curtail his workouts in his freshman and sophomore seasons.

“It hasn't limited me at all,” said McNeill, an All-American last season. “Everybody will see that when I get down there. I'll run with the team, work out with the team, hit with the team. All the B.S. and everything else is aside . . . I'm going to show everybody what I was telling them is the truth. Me and San Diego are going to make a lot of people feel real bad about not picking me up early.”

-- SD Union TribuneSince Marques Colston is in the NFC, McNeill should be a candidate for AFC offensive rookie of the year -- although I don't know how often an offensive lineman is considered.

 

[Gr00vus]

"Me and San Diego are going to make a lot of people feel real bad about not picking me up early.”

Classic!

 

[Harry Beanbag]

AJ Smith has been the best GM in football over the past 2-3 seasons, IMO.

No doubt. He's locked up young players long term and got tremendous production out of a number of draft picks. These are just some of the players but look at their drafts over the last 3 years....'06 - Cromartie (1st), McNeill (2nd) Tim Dobbins (5th)

'05 - Merriman (1st), Castillo (1st), Vincent Jackson (2nd) Darren Sproles (4th)

'04 - Rivers (1st), Olshansky (2nd), Kaeding (3rd), Hardwick (3rd), Shawn Phillips (4th), Michael Turner (5th), Shane Olivea (7th), Diehlman (undrafted FA).

I'm sure I'm forgetting some players and I'm sure a few more from the '05/'06 draft class will step up this year and next just as the '04 draft class is blossoming now.

I'll add Tim Dobbins and Darren Sproles to that mix. Sproles might be overlooked this year because he has not played due to a borken leg suffered in the preseason game to the Packers. The guy is scary good and is not just a threat as a return man but can play back up RB as well. Just ask the KC Chiefs how valuable Dante Hall is when you laugh that I am including a special teams guy in this list.Also, Dobbins will become more well known in a year or two. With the LB position as deep as it in San Diego Dobbins has been a situational player and a special teams guy. When Donnie Edwards moves on or retires, Tim Dobbins will be a beast in the middle, mark my words.

 

[Banger]

I'd also like to see the receivers get a bit more credit than people give them - they've been running great routes and making tough catches all year. None of them stands out individually but as a group they've made Rivers's life much easier this year.

It's tough because when people think about wr's they think stats, td/yards, and none of their wr's have a lot of either. Their starting wr's have some yards but no td's and Floyd/VJax have become big redzone targets but are light on the yardage. It's hard to measure (most don't care) how good a wr corp is at routing running or how sure handed they are. I'd imagine they would be near the top. They consistently do the little things like getting to the 3rd down marker AND making the catch on a 5 yard out. These are overlooked by casual fans but they keep drives alive it's the reason why the Chargers average the 2nd most yards/drive (34.5). I believe the Chargers are also #1 in 3rd down efficiency.

 

[massraider]

Now that Madden has singled him out, is he still overlooked?

 

[Despyzer]

These are just some of the players but look at their drafts over the last 3 years....'06 - Cromartie (1st), McNeill (2nd)'05 - Merriman (1st), Castillo (1st), Vincent Jackson (2nd)'04 - Rivers (1st), Olshansky (2nd), Kaeding (3rd), Hardwick (3rd), Shawn Phillips (4th), Michael Turner (5th), Shane Olivea (7th), Diehlman (undrafted FA).

And people throw out his first draft in '03 because Sammy Davis was so awful, but he did score DBs Drayton Florence (2nd) and Terrance Kiel (2nd) to go along with underrated punter Mike Scifres (5th) and Pro-Bowl special-teamer Hanik Milligan (6th). It's not nearly as spectaular as '04, but it's pretty solid.

 

[Gr00vus]

These are just some of the players but look at their drafts over the last 3 years....

'06 - Cromartie (1st), McNeill (2nd)

'05 - Merriman (1st), Castillo (1st), Vincent Jackson (2nd)

'04 - Rivers (1st), Olshansky (2nd), Kaeding (3rd), Hardwick (3rd), Shawn Phillips (4th), Michael Turner (5th), Shane Olivea (7th), Diehlman (undrafted FA).

And people throw out his first draft in '03 because Sammy Davis was so awful, but he did score DBs Drayton Florence (2nd) and Terrance Kiel (2nd) to go along with underrated punter Mike Scifres (5th) and Pro-Bowl special-teamer Hanik Milligan (6th). It's not nearly as spectaular as '04, but it's pretty solid.

He's probably had quite a bit to do with personnel decisions since he returned to the Chargers in 2001 as assistant GM/director of pro personnel. Here's his bio from the Chargers' web site.Somehow noone's mentioned Gates either, but that was a pretty good move.

 

[Despyzer]

Somehow noone's mentioned Gates either, but that was a pretty good move.

It was sweet, but it would be pretty crazy to give him too much credit. He was one of about twenty or more GMs who was pursuing him and Gates just happened to choose SD. It does raise the question, how was Gates able to see something in this franchise that Eli/Archie failed to see?

 

[Gr00vus]

It was sweet, but it would be pretty crazy to give him too much credit. He was one of about twenty or more GMs who was pursuing him and Gates just happened to choose SD. It does raise the question, how was Gates able to see something in this franchise that Eli/Archie failed to see?

I'd think that A.J. (and the rest of the front office/coaching staff) should get the credit in that case just as much if he really did find a way to convince him to come to San Diego rather than one of 21 other teams. Then again it could have boiled down to one word - LaDainian.

 

[BoltBacker]

Dont forget manumaleuma, and LoNeal. I have been very surprised by the bolts oline, I thought they might be doomed without Oben in the line-up.

No doubt. I was one of the people that skeptical of relying so heavily on a rookie LT but it all certainly has worked out well thus far.I also remember plenty of people saying LoNeal was done by the time he got to SD. He's been a huge addition and a perfect fit for a team that relies on the run as much as SD with a sometimes questionable line when he arrived.Since this has turned into an AJ-love-fest thread I'd also like to thank him for keeping Marty after the disappointing 2003 season(4-12). I can still remember dreading all the "Well Dennis Green is on the market!" hysteria following that season and how many people wanted him. Sure am glad we got "stuck" with Martyball instead. BTW, where are all those Martyball detractors again?

 

[jonessed]

Dont forget manumaleuma, and LoNeal. I have been very surprised by the bolts oline, I thought they might be doomed without Oben in the line-up.

No doubt. I was one of the people that skeptical of relying so heavily on a rookie LT but it all certainly has worked out well thus far.I also remember plenty of people saying LoNeal was done by the time he got to SD. He's been a huge addition and a perfect fit for a team that relies on the run as much as SD with a sometimes questionable line when he arrived.Since this has turned into an AJ-love-fest thread I'd also like to thank him for keeping Marty after the disappointing 2003 season(4-12). I can still remember dreading all the "Well Dennis Green is on the market!" hysteria following that season and how many people wanted him. Sure am glad we got "stuck" with Martyball instead. BTW, where are all those Martyball detractors again?

This is the first season we are actually seeing CamBall and it seems to be working. Hopefully, Marty will stick to what he is good at and let Cam continue to call the plays through the playoffs.

 

[Despyzer]

Since this has turned into an AJ-love-fest thread I'd also like to thank him for keeping Marty after the disappointing 2003 season(4-12).

Was that really his decision?

 

[BoltBacker]

Since this has turned into an AJ-love-fest thread I'd also like to thank him for keeping Marty after the disappointing 2003 season(4-12).

Was that really his decision?

I think at that point he had a lot of input on that decision, yes.

 

[jonessed]

Since this has turned into an AJ-love-fest thread I'd also like to thank him for keeping Marty after the disappointing 2003 season(4-12).

Was that really his decision?

I think at that point he had a lot of input on that decision, yes.

AJ has never liked Marty. The only reason he is still around is because of Spanos.

 

[shakeybarn]

The entire Charger line has been massively underrated for a while now. LT's awesome, but people make out like he runs behind 5 CFL linemen. It's not even close to being the case.

Me thinks if Michael Turner was a Cardinal or Jet, we'd see sub 3.3/carry output. Be interesting to see Turner out this week, and the #3 get some carries... I'm suspecting this is like the Chiefs a couple years ago when Holmes, Blaylock and Johnson and whomever all had big games behind that schema.

 

[diesel7982]

AJ Smith has been the best GM in football over the past 2-3 seasons, IMO.

And he even solved all their WR needs by trading for Rashaun Woods!

 

[tommyGunZ]

AJ Smith has been the best GM in football over the past 2-3 seasons, IMO.

And he even solved all their WR needs by trading for Rashaun Woods!

 

[Getinthemix]

'04 - Rivers (1st), Olshansky (2nd), Kaeding (3rd), Hardwick (3rd), Shawn Phillips (4th), Michael Turner (5th), Shane Olivea (7th), Diehlman (undrafted FA).

I wonder if any team has ever had a better single draft than this one. Franchise QB, 3 long term starting OL, long term K, long term DL, long term OLB, and best backup RB in the NFL.That's 8 of the Chargers top 25-26 players, from one draft.

I would still take the 74 Steelers Draft any day of the week. Just look at the picks 1,2,3 and 5. Unreal.

The 91 Cowboys Draft was impressive as well.

I would say the Chargers had an impressive draft, but we need to see more prolonged production to include them in the "greatest ever" chat.

 

[jonessed]

The entire Charger line has been massively underrated for a while now. LT's awesome, but people make out like he runs behind 5 CFL linemen. It's not even close to being the case.

That's a load of crap. His offensive line was terrible until '04 when they drafted three of their current starters then in '05 they had a massive amount of injuries. This is the first year they have really been together as a complete unit and relatively injury free.

 

[The Jacket]

That's a load of crap.

Bullsnot.The line he runs behind is, and has been, infinitely better than people like to make out.LT2 is good enough that he doesn't need the excuse of running behind "the worst OL evah!11!!".This year, he's running behind one of the best. The last two years, he's ran behind one that's MORE than good enough to produce solid numbers for its back.

 

[Despyzer]

The line he runs behind is, and has been, infinitely better than people like to make out.LT2 is good enough that he doesn't need the excuse of running behind "the worst OL evah!11!!".This year, he's running behind one of the best. The last two years, he's ran behind one that's MORE than good enough to produce solid numbers for its back.

Wow, I'd never heard of this poster before yesterday, but he's certainly created an impression as being one of the least-informed on the board recently. Jonessed had it right. The line was absolutely awful for years. In '04 they started five guys (and two rookies) who weren't starting for the Chargers in '03 and really put it together. Last year, injuries caused that line to be a complete mess. However, no one said they were the worst ever. We can all read what he said, so there's no need to put words in other people's mouths.Tomlinson has proven that he is one of the best RBs in the league, regardless of whether he is running behind a very good line (like he has this year) or just running for his life, and regardless of the shape of the passing game. "Good enough" doesn't really do him justice.

 

[Banger]

this was posted yesterday on a Charger board....

Marcus McNeil-Second Round steal!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By Josh Allen

SAN DIEGO- 2006 NFL DRAFT- The San Diego Chargers were on the clock with pick #50 of the NFL draft.

Normally in the second round of the draft teams take all of their alloted time to pick. Teams like to entertain trade offers, and make sure that they are making a solid selection with such a pivitol pick-a second round pick is an important pick for a franchise. None more important in recent history for the Chargers than their immediate choice, Marcus McNeil.

San Diego was on the clock, and within seconds Paul Tagliabue was on his way to the podium.

Tagliabue stepped up to the mic and solidified the left side of the Bolts line for years to come.

"With the 50th pick in the 2006 NFL draft," the commisioner said, " the San Diego Chargers select Marcus McNeil, Auburn."

AJ Smith, the general manager for the Chargers, could not believe that a player that the Chargers had targeted a round earlier was available for selection 31 picks later.

Chronic back problems due to mismanagement of a McNeil's mammoth body scared teams away, but not the Chargers. The Chargers realized with a professional training staff and constant treatment McNeil could make his dorsal issues a thing of the past.

While the Chargers did take notice of McNeils question marks, the Chargers were lured by the massive tackle's scouting report.

Marcus McNeil is a colossal tackle with a punishing style of play, and he is more willing to lay his man out than contain him. Even if someone manages to survive the first contact on his feet, McNeil has the ability to hold them at bay with his massively long arms. He is quite possibly the best run blocker in the upcoming draft. He's far from a liability in pass protection, but it's definitely not his strong suit.

If pass blocking was the weakness for a tackle that hadn't givin up a sack in three years, playing against some of the best pass rushers in the nation, imagine the magnitude of his strengths.

*****************************************

 

[Despyzer]

McNeil was the AFC's rookie of the month in September. How often has an award like that gone to an offensive lineman?

 

[Banger]

McNeil was the AFC's rookie of the month in September. How often has an award like that gone to an offensive lineman?

Playing left tackle with a broken hand no less.

 

[jonessed]

That's a load of crap.

Bullsnot.The line he runs behind is, and has been, infinitely better than people like to make out.LT2 is good enough that he doesn't need the excuse of running behind "the worst OL evah!11!!".This year, he's running behind one of the best. The last two years, he's ran behind one that's MORE than good enough to produce solid numbers for its back.

HK? Is that you?

 

[Gr00vus]

AJ Smith has been the best GM in football over the past 2-3 seasons, IMO.

And he even solved all their WR needs by trading for Rashaun Woods!

You're probably not going to believe this, but that was addition by subtraction - the real gem in that deal was getting rid of Sammy "the candy ###" Davis. Great googly moogly he was awful. Getting RaShaun was an afterthought, heck they're probably glad he went fishing so they don't have to pay him or Davis.

 

[Gr00vus]

The entire Charger line has been massively underrated for a while now. LT's awesome, but people make out like he runs behind 5 CFL linemen. It's not even close to being the case.

Me thinks if Michael Turner was a Cardinal or Jet, we'd see sub 3.3/carry output. Be interesting to see Turner out this week, and the #3 get some carries... I'm suspecting this is like the Chiefs a couple years ago when Holmes, Blaylock and Johnson and whomever all had big games behind that schema.

Fun fact: currently the Chargers don't even have a "#3" on the active roster. I guess Neal would be that guy in an emergency, but Sproles is out for the year and Gross and Perkins (both of whom have looked really good to me when I've seen them in preseason) are both on the practice squad. The Chargers currently only have 3 running backs active on Sundays: Tomlinson, Turner and Neal.Just a little known thing I thought was interesting, which gives me an opportunity to use one of my favorite smileys: ETA change Jennings to Perkins

 

[Banger]

The entire Charger line has been massively underrated for a while now. LT's awesome, but people make out like he runs behind 5 CFL linemen. It's not even close to being the case.

Me thinks if Michael Turner was a Cardinal or Jet, we'd see sub 3.3/carry output. Be interesting to see Turner out this week, and the #3 get some carries... I'm suspecting this is like the Chiefs a couple years ago when Holmes, Blaylock and Johnson and whomever all had big games behind that schema.

Fun fact: currently the Chargers don't even have a "#3" on the active roster. I guess Neal would be that guy in an emergency, but Sproles is out for the year and Gross and Jennings (both of whom have looked really good to me when I've seen them in preseason) are both on the practice squad. The Chargers currently only have 3 running backs active on Sundays: Tomlinson, Turner and Neal.Just a little known thing I thought was interesting, which gives me an opportunity to use one of my favorite smileys:

this weekend Turner is out.

 

[Gr00vus]

this weekend Turner is out.

Really? The Trib says he's probable:

The Chargers will be without defensive end Luis Castillo tomorrow, but it appears they will have kick returner Michael Turner. The backup running back tweaked his hamstring Thursday and missed parts of the past two practices. But he did some running yesterday and appeared fine afterward.

 

[tommyGunZ]

I thought Ray Perkins was on the practice squad? He looked great in the preseason, and I'd feel comfortable if he was the active #2 in a pinch.

 

[Gr00vus]

I thought Ray Perkins was on the practice squad? He looked great in the preseason, and I'd feel comfortable if he was the active #2 in a pinch.

My bad, I put Jennings above instead of Perkins (I was reading one of the GB Jennings threads also, must have had Jennings on my mind). You'll know Turner is jacked up if they activate Gross or Perkins, which they haven't so far. Perkins looked good, but I actually think I liked the way Gross looked better.

 

[BoltBacker]

Since this has turned into an AJ-love-fest thread I'd also like to thank him for keeping Marty after the disappointing 2003 season(4-12).

Was that really his decision?

I think at that point he had a lot of input on that decision, yes.

AJ has never liked Marty. The only reason he is still around is because of Spanos.

Is that true?I've always felt that the animosity between AJ/Marty stemmed from two factors;1) The way the QB situation was handled the last year - It seems AJ has been a proponent of giving Rivers a chance and Marty was a strong proponent of playing(and paying) Brees until he lost the job. Wouldn't be hard to understand how AJ could be more than a little ticked off when SD suddenly had a huge interest in drafting Rivers after Marty coached him in a post-season college all-star game and eventually end up trading for his rights only to have Marty back Brees after missing the playoffs last season.2) Donnie Edwards relationship with the front office - Donnie signed with SD just months after Schottenheimer was named HC in SD and it's no secret Edwards was on of "Marty's guys" in KC. The feud between AJ/Edwards is well documented and AJ has such strong feelings about the situation he's come off looking like the smaller man in the entire Edwards feud.Both of these factors may have been in play for the last two years but really they only came to a head in the past year(less than a year actually). Before that I had never heard of a rift between AJ and Marty. In fact, as I posted earlier there were plenty of people in the media(and on this board) that speculated Marty would not be the HC in SD in '03. If AJ truly didn't like Marty that would have been the perfect time to have at least some influence on his departure. A rift may have existed.... I just had never heard of one.

 

[Bri]

I thought Ray Perkins was on the practice squad? He looked great in the preseason, and I'd feel comfortable if he was the active #2 in a pinch.

Did Marty get his start coaching under Ray Perkins with the g-men? That would be an odd fact if he retires in the next 4-5 years-started coaching under Ray Perkins, retired coaching Ray Perkins

 

[Despyzer]

Did Marty get his start coaching under Ray Perkins with the g-men?

He was with the Giants as a LB coach and then DC from 1975 to 1977. Perkins didn't take over the Giants until 1979. Marty was already on the Lions' coaching staff by then.

 

[Banger]

bump...

 

[Bri]

Did Marty get his start coaching under Ray Perkins with the g-men?

He was with the Giants as a LB coach and then DC from 1975 to 1977. Perkins didn't take over the Giants until 1979. Marty was already on the Lions' coaching staff by then.

oh well, thanks for the info

 

[Colin Dowling]

I don't think he's overlooked at all, especially for a lineman. he'll probably finish in the top-5 of the OROY voting, which is not easily done by a player at his position.

 

[Banger]

I don't think he's overlooked at all, especially for a lineman. he'll probably finish in the top-5 of the OROY voting, which is not easily done by a player at his position.

I guess my point originally in the thread was that everyone was talking about LT's unreal run and Rivers qb rating but you weren't hearing (at least I wasn't) anything in the national media or the board as to the big reason for the jump in production. I thought a lot of people (myself included) weren't familiar with the big changes in the SD offensive line that took place and has catapulted the SD offense. I agree in NFL circles his name is known and there are 31 teams kicking themselves for letting him pass by, a number of teams twice.