The pitchforks are coming (1 Viewer)

[DiStefano]

If there was going to be a revolution in this country it would have been in 1932, following the collapse of the banks and sheer panic, with one third of the nation unemployed. In a very real way, FDR probably saved this country from collapse.

Nowadays we have such a series of controls in place that it's unlikely that we'll face any sudden collapses like the Great Depression again: instead, when things go bad, they happen slowly in a drip drip style. That's not the stuff that uprisings are made out of.

The depression sucked for everyone. They all wanted changed. FDR gave change to them.They didn't have this situation we are in now where one half the population is getting better and wants to continue in that direction, and the other half of the population is getting worse and wants change. The divide is heating a tension that continues to get hotter each year here.

Whether or not you're right (and FWIW I disagree with you,) the rhetoric back then is the same as now. Do you think the poor back then realized that the upper classes were suffering among with them? Of course not( they blamed all of their miseries on the wealthy.

As long as people aren't starving, and their children aren't starving, they may be complaining but they won't mount a revolution. Look at Greece and Spain, with 25% unemployment and the unemployment rate among the youth at 50%. But they aren't starving.People are so ignorant of history and so ignorant of what is going on in the rest of the world.

Google: Greece Startvation

So if things were so bad, where was the revolution? The reality is, yes, certain people did go hungry. But they were not so desperate as to start a revolution. There has been a rise in extremist parties, but the Greek economy is starting to recover. It takes a lot of discontent to start a revolution, and the whining and complaining of the middle classes doesn't usually do it.

You're the one claiming the starvation/revolution link. Tell us more.

France, 1789:"These problems were all compounded by a great scarcity of food in the 1780s. A series of crop failures caused a shortage of grain, consequently raising the price of bread. Because bread was the main source of food for poor peasants, this led to starvation. Contributing to the peasant unrest were conspiracy theories that the lack of food was a deliberate plot by the nobility.[23] The two years prior to the revolution (1788–89) saw meager harvests and harsh winters, possibly because of a strong El Niño cycle [24] caused by the 1783 Laki eruption in Iceland."

Russia, 1917:

"Perhaps the main thing which led to the collapse of the Tsarist regime was the First World War. If the Tsar’s government before 1914 was weak, the war pushed it to breaking point. The war took men from the farms and food to the front, and it clogged up the railway system, so that people starved in the towns. Prices rose, and there was famine in the winter of 1916-1917. "

Those were the two most famous Revolutions which totally overthrew the established order of things. The American revolution was of a different sort.

I still don't understand why you think that despite starvation in Greece, there won't be a revolution there.

They are already a stage deeper than us. Our people have just been protesting. Their people have already been rioting. They're at a higher risk of revolt than we are. It's a really odd example to bring up to suggest we're not at risk.

There are pockets of starvation in every country; but widespread famine is not present in Greece. Yes, people are not doing too well, but that is presently being expressed in the growth of extremist parties, not revolution. The Greek economy has bottomed out, and most observers believe it is starting to grow again.

 

[DiStefano]

DiStefano you're correct, but I think you have to throw in Iran in 1978 as well.

True. But that was more a cultural/religious revolution than caused by economic circumstances, although high inflation and shortages contributed to it. The reality is that the peasantry and recent arrivals from the countryside to the city were very religiously conservative and despised the Shah's intent to make them into westernized cultural democracy. And they had a charismatic leader.

 

[Politician Spock]

If there was going to be a revolution in this country it would have been in 1932, following the collapse of the banks and sheer panic, with one third of the nation unemployed. In a very real way, FDR probably saved this country from collapse.

Nowadays we have such a series of controls in place that it's unlikely that we'll face any sudden collapses like the Great Depression again: instead, when things go bad, they happen slowly in a drip drip style. That's not the stuff that uprisings are made out of.

The depression sucked for everyone. They all wanted changed. FDR gave change to them.They didn't have this situation we are in now where one half the population is getting better and wants to continue in that direction, and the other half of the population is getting worse and wants change. The divide is heating a tension that continues to get hotter each year here.

Whether or not you're right (and FWIW I disagree with you,) the rhetoric back then is the same as now. Do you think the poor back then realized that the upper classes were suffering among with them? Of course not( they blamed all of their miseries on the wealthy.

As long as people aren't starving, and their children aren't starving, they may be complaining but they won't mount a revolution. Look at Greece and Spain, with 25% unemployment and the unemployment rate among the youth at 50%. But they aren't starving.People are so ignorant of history and so ignorant of what is going on in the rest of the world.

Google: Greece Startvation

So if things were so bad, where was the revolution? The reality is, yes, certain people did go hungry. But they were not so desperate as to start a revolution. There has been a rise in extremist parties, but the Greek economy is starting to recover. It takes a lot of discontent to start a revolution, and the whining and complaining of the middle classes doesn't usually do it.

You're the one claiming the starvation/revolution link. Tell us more.

France, 1789:"These problems were all compounded by a great scarcity of food in the 1780s. A series of crop failures caused a shortage of grain, consequently raising the price of bread. Because bread was the main source of food for poor peasants, this led to starvation. Contributing to the peasant unrest were conspiracy theories that the lack of food was a deliberate plot by the nobility.[23] The two years prior to the revolution (1788–89) saw meager harvests and harsh winters, possibly because of a strong El Niño cycle [24] caused by the 1783 Laki eruption in Iceland."

Russia, 1917:

"Perhaps the main thing which led to the collapse of the Tsarist regime was the First World War. If the Tsar’s government before 1914 was weak, the war pushed it to breaking point. The war took men from the farms and food to the front, and it clogged up the railway system, so that people starved in the towns. Prices rose, and there was famine in the winter of 1916-1917. "

Those were the two most famous Revolutions which totally overthrew the established order of things. The American revolution was of a different sort.

I still don't understand why you think that despite starvation in Greece, there won't be a revolution there.

They are already a stage deeper than us. Our people have just been protesting. Their people have already been rioting. They're at a higher risk of revolt than we are. It's a really odd example to bring up to suggest we're not at risk.

There are pockets of starvation in every country; but widespread famine is not present in Greece. Yes, people are not doing too well, but that is presently being expressed in the growth of extremist parties, not revolution. The Greek economy has bottomed out, and most observers believe it is starting to grow again.

I know there is not a revolution yet in Greece. However, I still don't get why Greece is a good example of there not being potential for one here soon. They're still pretty high risk for one. All it would take is for this Iraq situation to unfold into $8 gallon gas, and the US could enter the rioting stage really quick. Some country will probably experience a full revolution if gas hits $8. Greece is high on that list.

 

[DiStefano]

Spock, you've spent too much time in the galaxy and not enough on your own planet. Gasoline prices in Europe, including Greece and Germany, have been above $7 dollars a gallon for quite a while.

 

[Politician Spock]

Spock, you've spent too much time in the galaxy and not enough on your own planet. Gasoline prices in Europe, including Greece and Germany, have been above $7 dollars a gallon for quite a while.

And?

Are you suggesting that if i refer to what gas prices here could rise to, that I need to state what gas prices everywhere would be as a result, less you be confused?

 

[DiStefano]

Spock, you've spent too much time in the galaxy and not enough on your own planet. Gasoline prices in Europe, including Greece and Germany, have been above $7 dollars a gallon for quite a while.

And?

Are you suggesting that if i refer to what gas prices here could rise to, that I need to state what gas prices everywhere would be as a result, less you be confused?

It's ok. Peace be unto you, brother.

 

[MC Gas Money]

On the whole military killing American civilians question. That ain't happening. Unless the military has changed substantially since I was in the majority would certainly not fire on American citizens. Always a few who will do anything but they are not the majority.

Thank you

I imagine there are mainly 2 types of people who join the military. Those who feel it is their duty to serve their country and those who had it as their only option than to improve their lives.

The patriotic boys did not join the military to kill their fellow americans, they joined to protect them.

The ones who join as a means to an end are independent thinkers who will not simply follow orders and fight their fellow citizens

 

[MC Gas Money]

From the documentaries ive seen about the state of greece some parts of the larger cities have been taken over by various anti government "gangs"

That to me seems like the roots of an eventual rebellion that perhaps may set an example for the worlds opressed classes

 

[msommer]

On the whole military killing American civilians question. That ain't happening. Unless the military has changed substantially since I was in the majority would certainly not fire on American citizens. Always a few who will do anything but they are not the majority.

Thank you

I imagine there are mainly 2 types of people who join the military. Those who feel it is their duty to serve their country and those who had it as their only option than to improve their lives.

The patriotic boys did not join the military to kill their fellow americans, they joined to protect them.

The ones who join as a means to an end are independent thinkers who will not simply follow orders and fight their fellow citizens

The national guard killed several American Vietnam war protesters back in the day. But the armies the ultra rich will hire will not be the US army or the national guard. It will be Blackwater types. They'll get paid for a job, and they'll do it

 

[MC Gas Money]

On the whole military killing American civilians question. That ain't happening. Unless the military has changed substantially since I was in the majority would certainly not fire on American citizens. Always a few who will do anything but they are not the majority.

Thank youI imagine there are mainly 2 types of people who join the military. Those who feel it is their duty to serve their country and those who had it as their only option than to improve their lives.

The patriotic boys did not join the military to kill their fellow americans, they joined to protect them.

The ones who join as a means to an end are independent thinkers who will not simply follow orders and fight their fellow citizens

The national guard killed several American Vietnam war protesters back in the day. But the armies the ultra rich will hire will not be the US army or the national guard. It will be Blackwater types. They'll get paid for a job, and they'll do it

Could they possibly gather enough in the event of a massive uprising? How many mercs could there be in the world?

 

[msommer]

On the whole military killing American civilians question. That ain't happening. Unless the military has changed substantially since I was in the majority would certainly not fire on American citizens. Always a few who will do anything but they are not the majority.

Thank youI imagine there are mainly 2 types of people who join the military. Those who feel it is their duty to serve their country and those who had it as their only option than to improve their lives.

The patriotic boys did not join the military to kill their fellow americans, they joined to protect them.

The ones who join as a means to an end are independent thinkers who will not simply follow orders and fight their fellow citizens

The national guard killed several American Vietnam war protesters back in the day. But the armies the ultra rich will hire will not be the US army or the national guard. It will be Blackwater types. They'll get paid for a job, and they'll do it

Could they possibly gather enough in the event of a massive uprising? How many mercs could there be in the world?

Private security is a massive growth industry