The price of embracing right wing media (6 Viewers)

[supermike80]

Gee why are conservatives fleeing "mainstream" media.

I'll give you two reasons and a thought:

1) Because most MSM is biased.  FOX news is one of the top rated news channels--and as has been discussed, that's because there is little conservatives can turn to that isn't biased left.  The left has a zillion options.  Including every talk show on television today.   It's overwhelming sometimes.   During the Trump administration (which I like that NBC news now calls the "previous administration" instead of using Trump's name...but no not biased)  I got sick of hearing how bad Trump was constantly over and over again.  It was really over the top.   Even if you were on the fence about Trump, and many were, the onslaught was just too much.

2) As I have pointed out so many times, liberals need to be told what to do and they need to be led.  The media plays into that very well.  Conservatives, in my opinion, are less likely to need to be told what to do.  I do believe conservative media is less about telling you want to do that leftist media.

Finally I don't think the right is fleeing the media to the level the OP thinks.  Remember the OP is one of the MOST influenced people here by the leftist media, so keep in mind anytime stats or opinions are posted, they will come from CNN, MSNBC etc. and are skewed already.  That's important to remember when discussing these issues the OP posts.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

2) As I have pointed out so many times, liberals need to be told what to do and they need to be led.  The media plays into that very well.  Conservatives, in my opinion, are less likely to need to be told what to do.  I do believe conservative media is less about telling you want to do that leftist media.

What do you base this on?  I can see that the fringe folks on each side exhibit this behavior, but....wow, I just have a way different view on this.  It doesn't match my observations at all.

 

[The Commish]

What do you base this on?  I can see that the fringe folks on each side exhibit this behavior, but....wow, I just have a way different view on this.  It doesn't match my observations at all.

Doesn't make much sense to me either.  The #1 reason I hear on this board for why people aren't wearing masks is because they were told not to at the very beginning.  The logic in all this will be fascinating to watch.   

 

[supermike80]

What do you base this on?  I can see that the fringe folks on each side exhibit this behavior, but....wow, I just have a way different view on this.  It doesn't match my observations at all.

Personal experience.  The liberals I have communicated with, the people I see on this board who post freqently (no not all of them).  

 

[supermike80]

Doesn't make much sense to me either.  The #1 reason I hear on this board for why people aren't wearing masks is because they were told not to at the very beginning.  The logic in all this will be fascinating to watch.   

Ahhhh...I disagree. I would say the #1 reason they don't wear masks is they reject being TOLD to.  Difference in opinion there.

 

[The Commish]

Ahhhh...I disagree. I would say the #1 reason they don't wear masks is they reject being TOLD to.  Difference in opinion there.

Want to do a little thought exercise?  I get a $1 for every instance I find where someone says they don't wear masks because they were told at the beginning they didn't need to and you get a $1 for every instance you find people saying they don't wear them because the government told them they had to.  No need for "opinions" to enter the equation.  We can handle this with real "research".  Deal?

 

[supermike80]

Want to do a little thought exercise?  I get a $1 for every instance I find where someone says they don't wear masks because they were told at the beginning they didn't need to and you get a $1 for every instance you find people saying they don't wear them because the government told them they had to.  Deal?

Sure.  I have 1000 people who say they reject masks for my reasons.  How many have you got?

 

[The Commish]

Sure.  I have 1000 people who say they reject masks for my reasons.  How many have you got?

We don't have 1000 unique people in this whole forum   

If you're game, let's do it....and post the results here....be interesting to see how it works out.

 

[supermike80]

We don't have 1000 unique people in this whole forum   

Im not talking about only this forum.  No chance.  You owe me $1000

 

[The Commish]

Im not talking about only this forum.  No chance.  You owe me $1000

     

Doesn't make much sense to me either.  The #1 reason I hear on this board for why people aren't wearing masks is because they were told not to at the very beginning.  The logic in all this will be fascinating to watch.   

It would have been easy money for me and I'd never hold you to such a lopsided bet.  

 

[supermike80]

     

It would have been easy money for me and I'd never hold you to such a lopsided bet.  

Youre quoting yourself????

 

[The Commish]

Youre quoting yourself????

  Just read better next time.  Deal?

I am absolutely CONFIDENT you know 1000 people who won't do something because the federal government told them to.  Alex even acknowledged the fringe groups in his post.  

 

[supermike80]

  Just read better next time.  Deal?

I am absolutely CONFIDENT you know 1000 people who won't do something because the federal government told them to.  Alex even acknowledged the fringe groups in his post.  

Weird.  But OK.  As long as you feel good about what you posted, that's all I need.  Good Job.

 

[KarmaPolice]

IMO the problem is that people aren't trying to avoid bias, they are just avoiding left/right bias they aren't likely to agree with.  The ramifications of that is where they retreat to even more biased AND less reliable factual news.   Again, IMO - it's more problematic for conservatives b/c to avoid CNN they are going to worse avenues.  Very rarely are people on the left posting links sites much worse than CNN for news.  

 

[tonydead]

Doesn't make much sense to me either.  The #1 reason I hear on this board for why people aren't wearing masks is because they were told not to at the very beginning.  The logic in all this will be fascinating to watch.   

I'll bet you can't link to 5 different people on this board saying that.  

 

[The Commish]

IMO the problem is that people aren't trying to avoid bias, they are just avoiding left/right bias they aren't likely to agree with.  The ramifications of that is where they retreat to even more biased AND less reliable factual news.   Again, IMO - it's more problematic for conservatives b/c to avoid CNN they are going to worse avenues.  Very rarely are people on the left posting links sites much worse than CNN for news.  

And I'd say it's not all that important to avoid bias.  As long as you understand it's there and remember that when consuming some source, there shouldn't be a problem.  However, there's a great many that suffer in terms of confirmation bias which isn't really about the sites themselves rather the person using them.  This is mostly pinned on those consuming the product.  If there wasn't a huge desire to fulfill confirmation bias, these outlets wouldn't waste a second on doing it.  Again, it comes back to the individuals consuming this nonsense.

 

[Charlie Steiner]

This is what I reject from any/all media sources:

1. Polls. I don't care what other people think about a certain issue if I have no idea who the people that responded were/are, or even how the polls were done. This is based on my firm belief that there are lies, damn lies and statistics.

2. News 'shows' whose content is clearly opinion, editorial and speculation by the host(s)/presenter(s).  To me, this is how and where narratives take root and the media organization (regardless of their political leanings) goes from reporting stories to shaping them for a desired opinion.  Give me the who, what, where and when, but leave the why out of it until all the facts are in.

3. ALL shows that are news-adjacent; by this I mean The Daily Show and all the similar shows--and also late-night talk shows-- whose comedic efforts pretty much mostly just reinforce the opinions of the 'serious' news shows from earlier in the day. Skewering current events is as old as current events themselves, but it feels like the jokes are more uniform in their punchline, if that makes any sense.  It doesn't feel like they're riffing on the same theme any more; instead, they're all making the same exact joke but trying to deliver is differently, kind of like a bunch of terrible comedians trying to tell The Aristocrats joke but hitting the exact same notes as each other.

 

[ekbeats]

There is some truth to his point, but the bigger truth is people don’t want to be steered on their news.  We can go to opinion shows for that.

This. In the 80’s and 90’s the nightly news had a slightly liberal slant to it, but for the most part facts were presented with time given to both sides of a debate, if there was one.  My problem with news today is that the Editorial page is now   presented as news. Don Lemon is listed as a CNN anchor and he is one of the most opinionated people in the business.  I have no problem with opinion shows - just disclose that up front. Report the news with facts only. It’s only 30 minutes a day - they can handle it.

 

[supermike80]

IMO the problem is that people aren't trying to avoid bias, they are just avoiding left/right bias they aren't likely to agree with.  The ramifications of that is where they retreat to even more biased AND less reliable factual news.   Again, IMO - it's more problematic for conservatives b/c to avoid CNN they are going to worse avenues.  Very rarely are people on the left posting links sites much worse than CNN for news.  

I guess but that's not true for me. I hate the bias at FOX as much as I hate the bias at CNN.   It aggravates me.

 

[FairWarning]

Well first off, as you know, I believe that the media mostly DOES report the facts, and the examples you bring up, while certainly valid, are few and far between. But putting aside that debate, I agree with @KarmaPolice and others that it’s unlikely that a person who has forsaken the mainstream media in favor of Hannity is going to return to the MSM because of greater perceived accuracy. Obviously there are other factors at play here. 

Let’s say it is few and far between.  I just gave three examples that you agreed could have been better - they are also three of the biggest stories in the last year.  

 

[ekbeats]

No bias here. I’m sure The NY Times wouldn’t have buried this bombshell in paragraph 21 had it been a Republican who did something similar. https://www.foxnews.com/media/new-york-times-buried-bombshell-kerry-iran-israeli-operations

 

[Mookie]

IMO, people go looking for the news/slant they want to hear.  All of this "I will gather all of the facts and come to my own opinion on what I believe" is garbage.  It has gotten so bad that we debate basic truths and scientific facts.  But go ahead and blame the media.  

 

[jon_mx]

IMO, people go looking for the news/slant they want to hear.  All of this "I will gather all of the facts and come to my own opinion on what I believe" is garbage.  It has gotten so bad that we debate basic truths and scientific facts.  But go ahead and blame the media.  

It may be garbage for you, so speak for yourself.  

 

[rockaction]

People seem to conflate the two in these forums with a surprising degree of frequency.  I understand why the actions of each group are concerning for many, but IMO it is a bit of a miss to lump them together.

As I've pointed out almost ad nauseum, those two groups often coalesce and intermingle, with different people joining up as comrades at different times. The New Yorker did a longform article about two case studies from Portland and Minnesota, and traced the origins and membership of the groups. He found, and passed along slightly unwittingly as that was not the premise of the article, that the main antagonists in each group have significant overlap with each other within their respective municipalities. Their tactics, once the sun goes down, are similar and their membership is often conjoined because of that and as a result of that. So it's not erroneous to lump them in together at all.

 

[rockaction]

They are the BLM/Antifa riots, and there's a reason for the conjoining of terms and groups.

 

[supermike80]

IMO, people go looking for the news/slant they want to hear.  All of this "I will gather all of the facts and come to my own opinion on what I believe" is garbage.  It has gotten so bad that we debate basic truths and scientific facts.  But go ahead and blame the media.  

Ok so on point one, yep I agree...people will consume the media that suits their biases.   I do believe people can gather facts and form opinions..That is getting smaller and smaller tho.   I am going to suspect one of your "truths" will be something along the line of "Trump is a bad person"  and then we get into the whole what is a truth.

To quote Pontius Pilate in JC Superstar  "We both have truths, are mine the same as yours??"

 

[Dickies]

IMO, people go looking for the news/slant they want to hear.  All of this "I will gather all of the facts and come to my own opinion on what I believe" is garbage.  It has gotten so bad that we debate basic truths and scientific facts.  But go ahead and blame the media.  

I'm curious where these people turn to "gather the facts" if they cannot trust the MSM.  

 

[jon_mx]

I'm curious where these people turn to "gather the facts" if they cannot trust the MSM.  

Of course the MSM is a starting point.  You have some reasonable level of confidence in their facts, but if something looks questionable or there are facts that are clearly missing, you go to alternative sources....youtube, twitter, alternative media, actual sources like the legal code or scientific journals or papers. 

 

[supermike80]

I'm curious where these people turn to "gather the facts" if they cannot trust the MSM.  

The facts are there on both sides.  Fox and CNN.  Its how the facts are presented and which facts are presented is more the issue. 

To simplistically make comments about how its impossible that the MSM doesn't report facts is the argument the OP made and was corrected on. 

 

[timschochet]

As I've pointed out almost ad nauseum, those two groups often coalesce and intermingle, with different people joining up as comrades at different times. The New Yorker did a longform article about two case studies from Portland and Minnesota, and traced the origins and membership of the groups. He found, and passed along slightly unwittingly as that was not the premise of the article, that the main antagonists in each group have significant overlap with each other within their respective municipalities. Their tactics, once the sun goes down, are similar and their membership is often conjoined because of that and as a result of that. So it's not erroneous to lump them in together at all.

This is where you really go off the rails IMO. Antifa is tiny, smaller than small. BLM is mostly a slogan- the vast majority of those who march in BLM protests chant the slogan, believe in it, and have nothing to do with any organization. And the thugs who came out after sundown last year were mostly freelancers and opportunists who had nothing to do with BLM, Antifa, or any other organized group. 
 

When bad things happen, the biggest culprit is usually chaos. There’s no organized effort. 

 

[FairWarning]

I'm curious where these people turn to "gather the facts" if they cannot trust the MSM.  

When I hear that a cop killed a black man, my BS guard is raised.  I'll wait for the bodycam video.

 

[timschochet]

Let’s say it is few and far between.  I just gave three examples that you agreed could have been better - they are also three of the biggest stories in the last year.  

You’re continuing to focus on what you believe to be the flaws in the media, rather than the pint that those who reject the media are doing so in favor of sources with far more flaws. It’s as if you said “I don’t want to eat this hot dog because there’s too much mustard on it, so I’ll swallow this poison instead.” 

 

[FairWarning]

You’re continuing to focus on what you believe to be the flaws in the media, rather than the pint that those who reject the media are doing so in favor of sources with far more flaws. It’s as if you said “I don’t want to eat this hot dog because there’s too much mustard on it, so I’ll swallow this poison instead.” 

So I should just accept the fact that its mainly peaceful protesting and be happy with that?  

 

[Alex P Keaton]

As I've pointed out almost ad nauseum, those two groups often coalesce and intermingle, with different people joining up as comrades at different times. The New Yorker did a longform article about two case studies from Portland and Minnesota, and traced the origins and membership of the groups. He found, and passed along slightly unwittingly as that was not the premise of the article, that the main antagonists in each group have significant overlap with each other within their respective municipalities. Their tactics, once the sun goes down, are similar and their membership is often conjoined because of that and as a result of that. So it's not erroneous to lump them in together at all.

Interesting.  Mrs APK probably recycled that New Yorker issue, as I don't recall reading it (but now will go find the article).   Thanks for sharing rock.

 

[supermike80]

So I should just accept the fact that its mainly peaceful protesting and be happy with that?  

Thats a perfect description for some people being ok with Biden.

Yeah I'd rather eat this Biden poison that have to eat another Trump mustard dog. Lol

 

[timschochet]

So I should just accept the fact that its mainly peaceful protesting and be happy with that?  

Forgive me, when I use the word “you” I am making a general statement, not you personally. 

You should never be happy about inaccurate reporting. You should always demand the entire truth. But my point is that however much of the truth you get from the MSM, you get straight out lies from Hannity, and THAT is the choice people are making. 

 

[FairWarning]

Forgive me, when I use the word “you” I am making a general statement, not you personally. 

You should never be happy about inaccurate reporting. You should always demand the entire truth. But my point is that however much of the truth you get from the MSM, you get straight out lies from Hannity, and THAT is the choice people are making. 

Hannity - 3 mil viewers/show

Maddow - 3.5 mil viewers/show

Lebron's twitter account - 49.6 MILLION followers.  I bet more than 3.5 mil of his followers read his post about the cop.  Over 230,000 likes before he took it down.  

 

[timschochet]

Hannity - 3 mil viewers/show

Maddow - 3.5 mil viewers/show

Lebron's twitter account - 49.6 MILLION followers.  I bet more than 3.5 mil of his followers read his post about the cop.  Over 230,000 likes before he took it down.  

Hmm. I don’t seem to be driving the point home. Either that, or you’re choosing to ignore it. 
 

Neither LeBron James nor Rachel Maddow nor any other liberal source is relevant to this discussion. They’re not relevant because they’re not urging their followers to reject the mainstream media. That’s a trait specific to right wing hosts, and ONLY right wing hosts, which is why I am focusing on Hannity and Carlson and the rest. 

 

[supermike80]

Hannity - 3 mil viewers/show

Maddow - 3.5 mil viewers/show

Lebron's twitter account - 49.6 MILLION followers.  I bet more than 3.5 mil of his followers read his post about the cop.  Over 230,000 likes before he took it down.  

Yeah...Thats another absurd take.  Some people watch Hannity and now it all of a sudden is some major issue?

I swear man.  No rationality at all.  Just feed and regurgitate.    How can anyone take posts like his seriously?  How?

He fails to understand how the right is rejecting the MSM because it's left but the left isn't doing the same.  Gee wonder why?  Why would the left dominated media tell you to stop watching---itself?  

 

[timschochet]

LeBron’s misguided tweet is not a good comparison in another way as well: though he, and some in the MSM, got the facts of the Ohio shooting wrong, they’re not offering a false narrative to the public on this overall issue. Police are wrongfully killing black people in our society; the fact that they got the facts wrong in one instance doesn’t change the reality of what’s happening. 
 

On the other hand, right wing media is deliberately trying to change reality: the reality of the election. The reality of climate change. The reality of the COVID crisis. Shows like Hannity and Carlson and the rest have a fantasy world going in which they present the exact opposite of the truth on these issues. And millions of conservatives, trained to reject the mainstream media, believe what they’re watching.

There is NO comparison for this on the liberal side. 

 

[jon_mx]

LeBron’s misguided tweet is not a good comparison in another way as well: though he, and some in the MSM, got the facts of the Ohio shooting wrong, they’re not offering a false narrative to the public on this overall issue. Police are wrongfully killing black people in our society; the fact that they got the facts wrong in one instance doesn’t change the reality of what’s happening. 
 

On the other hand, right wing media is deliberately trying to change reality: the reality of the election. The reality of climate change. The reality of the COVID crisis. Shows like Hannity and Carlson and the rest have a fantasy world going in which they present the exact opposite of the truth on these issues. And millions of conservatives, trained to reject the mainstream media, believe what they’re watching.

There is NO comparison for this on the liberal side. 

You say there is no false narrative, then immediately give a false narrative.  

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

Very rarely are people on the left posting links sites much worse than CNN for news.  

I actually agree with this - but probably not in the way you intend.

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

the fact that they got the facts wrong in one instance  

Good lord.

 

[DocHolliday]

Forgive me, when I use the word “you” I am making a general statement, not you personally. 

You should never be happy about inaccurate reporting. You should always demand the entire truth. But my point is that however much of the truth you get from the MSM, you get straight out lies from Hannity, and THAT is the choice people are making. 

Hannity is not MSM.   Does anyone say that they are going to watch the news and turn on Hannity?  He is entertainment at best.   Not sure why Hannity is the only example used.   Lemon and Maddox are just as bad and push their agenda continuously.    Since Tim is very liberal, he laps it up with the rest of the sheep.   Fox bad   CNN good   

I consider ABC, CBS, and NBC as the main MSM.  They are liberal and slightly skew the news to their agenda.   CNN, Fox, and MSNBC are generally MSM but in a loose manner.   The right or left lean is obvious.

Folks have provided many examples of false stories by the MSM.   When most of the MSM leans left to some degree and lies, it is not tough to figure out while center-right folks like me quit watching and quit believing.   When someone lies to you repeatedly, you don’t believe anything they say.    

 

[KarmaPolice]

I actually agree with this - but probably not in the way you intend.

  fair.  

You know what I mean though.  You don't see references and links to Daily Kos, Occupy Democrats, or whatever crap site is the equivalent for the left that OAN, Newsmax, etc. are.  

Plus judging by the posts, the conservatives around here seem to watch CNN more than the liberals here.  

 

[Gilroy34]

LeBron’s misguided tweet is not a good comparison in another way as well: though he, and some in the MSM, got the facts of the Ohio shooting wrong, they’re not offering a false narrative to the public on this overall issue. Police are wrongfully killing black people in our society; the fact that they got the facts wrong in one instance doesn’t change the reality of what’s happening. 
 

On the other hand, right wing media is deliberately trying to change reality: the reality of the election. The reality of climate change. The reality of the COVID crisis. Shows like Hannity and Carlson and the rest have a fantasy world going in which they present the exact opposite of the truth on these issues. And millions of conservatives, trained to reject the mainstream media, believe what they’re watching.

There is NO comparison for this on the liberal side. 

  Wowzers

 

[FairWarning]

Hmm. I don’t seem to be driving the point home. Either that, or you’re choosing to ignore it. 
 

Neither LeBron James nor Rachel Maddow nor any other liberal source is relevant to this discussion. They’re not relevant because they’re not urging their followers to reject the mainstream media. That’s a trait specific to right wing hosts, and ONLY right wing hosts, which is why I am focusing on Hannity and Carlson and the rest. 

If the MSM is so respected, why does the left take shots at Hannity, Carlson, etc?  Since they control a greater share of the media, wouldn’t they be better off just ignoring them?

 

[shadrap]

So I should just accept the fact that its mainly peaceful protesting and be happy with that?  

yea, with burning buildings in the background and gun shots.

 

[FairWarning]

LeBron’s misguided tweet is not a good comparison in another way as well: though he, and some in the MSM, got the facts of the Ohio shooting wrong, they’re not offering a false narrative to the public on this overall issue. Police are wrongfully killing black people in our society; the fact that they got the facts wrong in one instance doesn’t change the reality of what’s happening. 
 

On the other hand, right wing media is deliberately trying to change reality: the reality of the election. The reality of climate change. The reality of the COVID crisis. Shows like Hannity and Carlson and the rest have a fantasy world going in which they present the exact opposite of the truth on these issues. And millions of conservatives, trained to reject the mainstream media, believe what they’re watching.

There is NO comparison for this on the liberal side. 

Maybe there was an apology by LBJ, didn’t hear it.  I guess that’s his official stance. 
 

I don’t agree with the handling of the election by the RW media, but we went thru this  in 2016 also.  Were you outraged at the media?

 

[shadrap]

  fair.  

You know what I mean though.  You don't see references and links to Daily Kos, Occupy Democrats, or whatever crap site is the equivalent for the left that OAN, Newsmax, etc. are.  

Plus judging by the posts, the conservatives around here seem to watch CNN more than the liberals here.  

spend 3 hours in an airport you have no choice unless a sports bar that's not packed.