The sky is not falling in KC (1 Viewer)

[FavreCo]

Herm Edwards is over rated as a head coach. I see this team getting worse not better.

WAY over-rated. He's also a destroyer of the passing game. He could take most NFL teams and turn their passing game into a wasteland. KC will countinue their downward spiral as long as he is the head coach. 2008 will be even worse for this team...then he will be fired and someone will have to make repairs like Mangini is doing in NY.Herminator: 'Gee, this cotchery guy that I drafted in NY is doing well. I guess I should have played him'.

 

[winwithike]

....and they got better.

You keep saying this, but you have yet to base this on anything at all. How have they improved so dramatically?

Not dramatic improvement, but improvement nonetheless. Starting with the offense, this year listed first

QB Huard/Croyle > Huard/Green I haven't heard a single person say Green had even a mediocre year last year. He was borderline AWFUL last year and its not a stretch to say Croyle could and would improve over what Green did last year if he was to become the starter. Huard didn't scare anybody last year and won't again this year but should be more comfortable in a starting role this year and the offense should be geared more towards his strengths than it was last year. Advantage this year

RB LJ/Bennett/Smith > LJ/hurt Bennett Obviously a holdout changes everything, but I'm not too concerned about that. The big workload is a slight concern but I don't predict injuries. Bennett played well last year and assuming he stays healthy can give LJ some rest that he didn't recieve last year. Smith adds depth to the position that wasn't there last year. Advantage this year

TE Gonzo = Gonzo Gonzo hasn't really started to decline yet and I don't expect much of a drop in production this year either. Obviously the team feels the same way or he wouldn't have recieved the contract that he got. Push.

WRs Kennison/Bowe/Parker/Webb/Hannon > Kennison/Parker/Hall Kennison is old and won't be as affective as he was last year, but the rest of the squad has nowhere to go but up. Bowe is an upgrade over Parker and Parker moving to the slot is an upgrade over Hall. Webb and Hannon are impressing the coaching staff and should add some nice depth and one or the other could dethrone Parker. Advantage this year.

LT Mcintosh > Black Admittingly I haven't seen Mcintosh play really, but I have seen enough of Black to state that he very well may have been the worst starter on ANY team at ANY position last year. If Mcintosh is even a mediocre LT, this is a fairly big upgrade. Advantage this year.

LG Waters = Waters If anything, Waters could still be better this year than last. One of the best Gs in the game, and theres not a whole lot that needs to be said about him. Push.

C Wiegmann < Wiegmann A mediocre center who is on the decline. He is still serviceable but not a strength by any means. Advantage last year.

RG Welbourn < Shields This is a downgrade, but not nearly as big of one as those not in the know seem to think. Shields is one of my all time favorite players, but was not playing at a pro bowl level any longer and was simply an above average G last year. Welbourn is back at his natural position and should play at a decent, reliable level. Advantage last year.

RT Bober/Terry/Svitek > last years committee Whoever wins the starting nod should be an improvement over last year, and it goes without saying that the two that don't win the job add better depth to the line than was there last year. Advantage this year.

While none of the positions have significant change from last year, I still see the majority of the positions an upgrade over last years squad which was still not as bad as people think. Top half of the league in points and total offense last year and its a safe assumption to assume they finish around there again this year.

Now where the significant improvement is, the defense. I don't have time to treat this the same as I did the offense, but I think most can agree the defense, which was borderline top 10 last year, should be significantly better and could crack the top 10.

DEs Allen/Hali/Bell/Mcbride/Wilkerson > Allen/Hali/rejects The Allen suspension obviously hurts, but there is depth here that should be adequate in his absence, and Hali was a great rookie but should show improvement into a good to great DE.

DTs Boone/Tyler/Edwards/Reed > Reed/Edwards/Wilkerson/Simms Our two starters from last year are both still with the team and neither will be starting. I think that means its safe to say the position has been upgraded and that they will make better backups than we had last year.

LBs DJ/Harris/Edwards >> DJ/Bell/Mitchell This is a massive upgrade as Bell was borderline worthless last year, and seeing what Mitchell fetched on the open market shows you what kind of player he is. Just getting them off the field is an upgrade and thats not including the actual addition of a leader like Edwards and an above average LB in Harris

CBs These are the same as last year, and that has to be considered a downgrade considering the starters ages. They are still an above average tandem though and losing a step isn't as big of a deal in a Cover 2.

Safeties Page/Pollard > Knight/Wesley Two young safeties with loads of potential. There will be some growing pains I'm sure, but both showed flashes last year and everyone in KC can't wait to see these two in action next year.

Defense is upgraded in every position except CB, and in most cases is upgraded significantly.

A possible top 10 D and an offense that should be better than half the league, doesn't look like many reasons to worry in KC. 8-8 to 10-6 and competing for a playoff birth again this year.

Forgot one important factorMike Solari this year >> Mike Solari last year. One of the worst offensive coordinators and play callers in the league, is no longer a rookie and has nowhere to go but up.

6-2 at a very tough arrowhead, road wins @houston, @detroit, @ oakland = 9-7

 

[Kevin Ashcraft]

Herm Edwards is over rated as a head coach. I see this team getting worse not better.

WAY over-rated. He's also a destroyer of the passing game. He could take most NFL teams and turn their passing game into a wasteland. KC will countinue their downward spiral as long as he is the head coach. 2008 will be even worse for this team...then he will be fired and someone will have to make repairs like Mangini is doing in NY.Herminator: 'Gee, this cotchery guy that I drafted in NY is doing well. I guess I should have played him'.

In what screwed up world do you live in where going from out of the playoffs to in the playoffs is a step backwards?

 

[BoltBacker]

....and they got better.

You keep saying this, but you have yet to base this on anything at all. How have they improved so dramatically?

Not dramatic improvement, but improvement nonetheless. Starting with the offense, this year listed first

QB Huard/Croyle > Huard/Green I haven't heard a single person say Green had even a mediocre year last year. He was borderline AWFUL last year and its not a stretch to say Croyle could and would improve over what Green did last year if he was to become the starter. Huard didn't scare anybody last year and won't again this year but should be more comfortable in a starting role this year and the offense should be geared more towards his strengths than it was last year. Advantage this year

RB LJ/Bennett/Smith > LJ/hurt Bennett Obviously a holdout changes everything, but I'm not too concerned about that. The big workload is a slight concern but I don't predict injuries. Bennett played well last year and assuming he stays healthy can give LJ some rest that he didn't recieve last year. Smith adds depth to the position that wasn't there last year. Advantage this year

TE Gonzo = Gonzo Gonzo hasn't really started to decline yet and I don't expect much of a drop in production this year either. Obviously the team feels the same way or he wouldn't have recieved the contract that he got. Push.

WRs Kennison/Bowe/Parker/Webb/Hannon > Kennison/Parker/Hall Kennison is old and won't be as affective as he was last year, but the rest of the squad has nowhere to go but up. Bowe is an upgrade over Parker and Parker moving to the slot is an upgrade over Hall. Webb and Hannon are impressing the coaching staff and should add some nice depth and one or the other could dethrone Parker. Advantage this year.

LT Mcintosh > Black Admittingly I haven't seen Mcintosh play really, but I have seen enough of Black to state that he very well may have been the worst starter on ANY team at ANY position last year. If Mcintosh is even a mediocre LT, this is a fairly big upgrade. Advantage this year.

LG Waters = Waters If anything, Waters could still be better this year than last. One of the best Gs in the game, and theres not a whole lot that needs to be said about him. Push.

C Wiegmann < Wiegmann A mediocre center who is on the decline. He is still serviceable but not a strength by any means. Advantage last year.

RG Welbourn < Shields This is a downgrade, but not nearly as big of one as those not in the know seem to think. Shields is one of my all time favorite players, but was not playing at a pro bowl level any longer and was simply an above average G last year. Welbourn is back at his natural position and should play at a decent, reliable level. Advantage last year.

RT Bober/Terry/Svitek > last years committee Whoever wins the starting nod should be an improvement over last year, and it goes without saying that the two that don't win the job add better depth to the line than was there last year. Advantage this year.

While none of the positions have significant change from last year, I still see the majority of the positions an upgrade over last years squad which was still not as bad as people think. Top half of the league in points and total offense last year and its a safe assumption to assume they finish around there again this year.

Now where the significant improvement is, the defense. I don't have time to treat this the same as I did the offense, but I think most can agree the defense, which was borderline top 10 last year, should be significantly better and could crack the top 10.

DEs Allen/Hali/Bell/Mcbride/Wilkerson > Allen/Hali/rejects The Allen suspension obviously hurts, but there is depth here that should be adequate in his absence, and Hali was a great rookie but should show improvement into a good to great DE.

DTs Boone/Tyler/Edwards/Reed > Reed/Edwards/Wilkerson/Simms Our two starters from last year are both still with the team and neither will be starting. I think that means its safe to say the position has been upgraded and that they will make better backups than we had last year.

LBs DJ/Harris/Edwards >> DJ/Bell/Mitchell This is a massive upgrade as Bell was borderline worthless last year, and seeing what Mitchell fetched on the open market shows you what kind of player he is. Just getting them off the field is an upgrade and thats not including the actual addition of a leader like Edwards and an above average LB in Harris

CBs These are the same as last year, and that has to be considered a downgrade considering the starters ages. They are still an above average tandem though and losing a step isn't as big of a deal in a Cover 2.

Safeties Page/Pollard > Knight/Wesley Two young safeties with loads of potential. There will be some growing pains I'm sure, but both showed flashes last year and everyone in KC can't wait to see these two in action next year.

Defense is upgraded in every position except CB, and in most cases is upgraded significantly.

A possible top 10 D and an offense that should be better than half the league, doesn't look like many reasons to worry in KC. 8-8 to 10-6 and competing for a playoff birth again this year.

QB < Croyle is just automatically better than Green?RB < We know last year LJ didn't holdout and played the entire season without an injury

WR = Kennison declines with age but Bowe at least adds raw skill(though I doubt he's the caliber of rookie WR to have a major impact as a rookie)

TE < Yet another aging starter... aging.

OL < They only had three talented players last year; Shields/Wiegman/Waters. Shields retired and Wiegman/Waters are both over 30.

DL = I really liked the run stuffing DT's they obtained in the offseason and Hali is a stud that should only continue to improve but losing Allen for the first 1/4th of the season kind of evens everything out.

LB > I see a big improvement here.

DB = Pollard/Page should progress. Surtain/Law should regress.

Once Allen comes back I really like the direction KC is going on defense but if you look at the team overall I don't see that much improvement. An awful lot of "Well, so-and-so was terrible last year so any change is an improvement". And an awful lot of assumptions that key guys like Gonzales/Kennison/Wiegman/Surtain/Law/Edwards won't decline any further despite the fact they have already started declining and are well past their prime so it's not a stretch to assume they will continue to decline.

 

[BoltBacker]

Herm Edwards is over rated as a head coach. I see this team getting worse not better.

WAY over-rated. He's also a destroyer of the passing game. He could take most NFL teams and turn their passing game into a wasteland. KC will countinue their downward spiral as long as he is the head coach. 2008 will be even worse for this team...then he will be fired and someone will have to make repairs like Mangini is doing in NY.Herminator: 'Gee, this cotchery guy that I drafted in NY is doing well. I guess I should have played him'.

In what screwed up world do you live in where going from out of the playoffs to in the playoffs is a step backwards?

Exactly.Herm already has as much success as Vermiel had in KC and Vermiel had a team in it's prime. I don't understand all these people that think making the playoffs is no big deal. PIT proved very recently that all you need to do is get in and you have a chance. The amount of hate on this board for Herm Edwards is shocking.

 

[winwithike]

....and they got better.

You keep saying this, but you have yet to base this on anything at all. How have they improved so dramatically?

Not dramatic improvement, but improvement nonetheless. Starting with the offense, this year listed first

QB Huard/Croyle > Huard/Green I haven't heard a single person say Green had even a mediocre year last year. He was borderline AWFUL last year and its not a stretch to say Croyle could and would improve over what Green did last year if he was to become the starter. Huard didn't scare anybody last year and won't again this year but should be more comfortable in a starting role this year and the offense should be geared more towards his strengths than it was last year. Advantage this year

RB LJ/Bennett/Smith > LJ/hurt Bennett Obviously a holdout changes everything, but I'm not too concerned about that. The big workload is a slight concern but I don't predict injuries. Bennett played well last year and assuming he stays healthy can give LJ some rest that he didn't recieve last year. Smith adds depth to the position that wasn't there last year. Advantage this year

TE Gonzo = Gonzo Gonzo hasn't really started to decline yet and I don't expect much of a drop in production this year either. Obviously the team feels the same way or he wouldn't have recieved the contract that he got. Push.

WRs Kennison/Bowe/Parker/Webb/Hannon > Kennison/Parker/Hall Kennison is old and won't be as affective as he was last year, but the rest of the squad has nowhere to go but up. Bowe is an upgrade over Parker and Parker moving to the slot is an upgrade over Hall. Webb and Hannon are impressing the coaching staff and should add some nice depth and one or the other could dethrone Parker. Advantage this year.

LT Mcintosh > Black Admittingly I haven't seen Mcintosh play really, but I have seen enough of Black to state that he very well may have been the worst starter on ANY team at ANY position last year. If Mcintosh is even a mediocre LT, this is a fairly big upgrade. Advantage this year.

LG Waters = Waters If anything, Waters could still be better this year than last. One of the best Gs in the game, and theres not a whole lot that needs to be said about him. Push.

C Wiegmann < Wiegmann A mediocre center who is on the decline. He is still serviceable but not a strength by any means. Advantage last year.

RG Welbourn < Shields This is a downgrade, but not nearly as big of one as those not in the know seem to think. Shields is one of my all time favorite players, but was not playing at a pro bowl level any longer and was simply an above average G last year. Welbourn is back at his natural position and should play at a decent, reliable level. Advantage last year.

RT Bober/Terry/Svitek > last years committee Whoever wins the starting nod should be an improvement over last year, and it goes without saying that the two that don't win the job add better depth to the line than was there last year. Advantage this year.

While none of the positions have significant change from last year, I still see the majority of the positions an upgrade over last years squad which was still not as bad as people think. Top half of the league in points and total offense last year and its a safe assumption to assume they finish around there again this year.

Now where the significant improvement is, the defense. I don't have time to treat this the same as I did the offense, but I think most can agree the defense, which was borderline top 10 last year, should be significantly better and could crack the top 10.

DEs Allen/Hali/Bell/Mcbride/Wilkerson > Allen/Hali/rejects The Allen suspension obviously hurts, but there is depth here that should be adequate in his absence, and Hali was a great rookie but should show improvement into a good to great DE.

DTs Boone/Tyler/Edwards/Reed > Reed/Edwards/Wilkerson/Simms Our two starters from last year are both still with the team and neither will be starting. I think that means its safe to say the position has been upgraded and that they will make better backups than we had last year.

LBs DJ/Harris/Edwards >> DJ/Bell/Mitchell This is a massive upgrade as Bell was borderline worthless last year, and seeing what Mitchell fetched on the open market shows you what kind of player he is. Just getting them off the field is an upgrade and thats not including the actual addition of a leader like Edwards and an above average LB in Harris

CBs These are the same as last year, and that has to be considered a downgrade considering the starters ages. They are still an above average tandem though and losing a step isn't as big of a deal in a Cover 2.

Safeties Page/Pollard > Knight/Wesley Two young safeties with loads of potential. There will be some growing pains I'm sure, but both showed flashes last year and everyone in KC can't wait to see these two in action next year.

Defense is upgraded in every position except CB, and in most cases is upgraded significantly.

A possible top 10 D and an offense that should be better than half the league, doesn't look like many reasons to worry in KC. 8-8 to 10-6 and competing for a playoff birth again this year.

QB < Croyle is just automatically better than Green?RB < We know last year LJ didn't holdout and played the entire season without an injury

WR = Kennison declines with age but Bowe at least adds raw skill(though I doubt he's the caliber of rookie WR to have a major impact as a rookie)

TE < Yet another aging starter... aging.

OL < They only had three talented players last year; Shields/Wiegman/Waters. Shields retired and Wiegman/Waters are both over 30.

DL = I really liked the run stuffing DT's they obtained in the offseason and Hali is a stud that should only continue to improve but losing Allen for the first 1/4th of the season kind of evens everything out.

LB > I see a big improvement here.

DB = Pollard/Page should progress. Surtain/Law should regress.

Once Allen comes back I really like the direction KC is going on defense but if you look at the team overall I don't see that much improvement. An awful lot of "Well, so-and-so was terrible last year so any change is an improvement". And an awful lot of assumptions that key guys like Gonzales/Kennison/Wiegman/Surtain/Law/Edwards won't decline any further despite the fact they have already started declining and are well past their prime so it's not a stretch to assume they will continue to decline.

So Croyle is automatically worse than Green? I could see a push from the QB position but I don't think its fair to say it would be worse when you look at how poorly Green played when he returned. I don't predict injuries and the holdout doesn't scare me so I do see LJ as better this year than last.

I can accept a push with WRs, but I absolutely think the addition of Bowe and another year under the belts of Parker/Webb/Hannon is greater than the decline of Kennison

OL you said we had 3 talented players last year, but 2 of them are still with us and Waters hasn't started to decline AT ALL. The loss of Shields is offset by the new Ts and Welbourn is a fine player. Push at worst but I honestly see this is a > as well.

TE You didn't see Gonzales play much last year if you think he is declining. His role has changed a bit but he is every bit the player he was. The improved WRs should take away some double teams he sees too.

DL Losing Allen for 1/4 a season absolutely hurts no doubt, but the games he will be missing shouldn't on paper affect the team much. They SHOULD have little trouble disposing of Houston and Minnesota (at home) without him and I would have a hard time seeing us win @Chicago and @ San Diego even with him. The last 12 games the DL is >> if its at full strength.

LBs you like

DBs you are right on S progessing and CBs regressing, but I think the S progess is much higher than the CBs regressing, so I see this as a >.

I admittingly have a slight homeristic view on things but I tried breaking it down using it as little as possible. I do enjoy hearing fans from division rivals opinions though so I do like and appreciate the response. I assume the truth lies somewhere in the middle. I cant wait for the regular season

 

[chris1969]

The sky fell when Edwards got hired.

 

[Routilla]

The sky fell when Edwards got hired.

Do you have any statistical analysis to back up your weak and putrid claim? If making the playoffs=the sky is falling, then I guess you are on to something.

 

[Despyzer]

The sky fell when Edwards got hired.

Do you have any statistical analysis to back up your weak and putrid claim?

I could see the argument that the Jets improved dramatically when Herm left and the Chiefs won fewer games under Herm than the previous regime, but I wouldn't want to simplify it that much.

 

[Routilla]

The sky fell when Edwards got hired.

Do you have any statistical analysis to back up your weak and putrid claim?

I could see the argument that the Jets improved dramatically when Herm left and the Chiefs won fewer games under Herm than the previous regime, but I wouldn't want to simplify it that much.

The Jets had 2 seasons of 10-6 under Herm, so they have not improved since he left as they have only matched that 10-6 record last year. Throw in another 9-7 season and the NYJ were over .500 3 of the 5 years under Herm. In KC, the Chiefs were over .500 in 2 of the last 5 years before Herm arrived. Last year they were 9-7 in Herm's first year so to me it looks like the Herm bashing is invalid. The guy is better than half the coaches in the league based on his teams' success. As a head coach in 6 years his teams have made the playoffs 4 times, all in the weighted AFC. Also to note the 4-12 debacle in '05 is the same year Pennington played in 3 games. I'm sure that injury was Herm's fault though.

 

[Despyzer]

Who I feel for is Al Saunders. The Chiefs had a pretty lousy D during the Vermeil era and I think Saunders paid for that in the end. Edwards had legacy and he was a defensive player/coach by trade.

I'm not trying to be argumentative - just hoping to understand what you are saying. What do the offensive coordinator and the bad defense have to do with one another? And how did Saunders pay for it?

 

[FavreCo]

Herm Edwards is over rated as a head coach. I see this team getting worse not better.

WAY over-rated. He's also a destroyer of the passing game. He could take most NFL teams and turn their passing game into a wasteland. KC will countinue their downward spiral as long as he is the head coach. 2008 will be even worse for this team...then he will be fired and someone will have to make repairs like Mangini is doing in NY.Herminator: 'Gee, this cotchery guy that I drafted in NY is doing well. I guess I should have played him'.

In what screwed up world do you live in where going from out of the playoffs to in the playoffs is a step backwards?

Hide and watch what happens this year and next. This team is heading south and if you can't see that, you are clueless.

 

[FavreCo]

The sky fell when Edwards got hired.

Do you have any statistical analysis to back up your weak and putrid claim? If making the playoffs=the sky is falling, then I guess you are on to something.

Basically the minute Herminator made his famous remark of 'I like to keep it close and try and win it in the 4th quarter.' Makes a lot of sense. Much better than " I want to blow the other team out of the stadium in the 1st quarter.' The guy is an idiot.

 

[Routilla]

The sky fell when Edwards got hired.

Do you have any statistical analysis to back up your weak and putrid claim? If making the playoffs=the sky is falling, then I guess you are on to something.

Basically the minute Herminator made his famous remark of 'I like to keep it close and try and win it in the 4th quarter.' Makes a lot of sense. Much better than " I want to blow the other team out of the stadium in the 1st quarter.' The guy is an idiot.

Another brilliant post.

 

[phthalatemagic]

I don't have an opinion on Herm Edwards, but FarveCo apparently does. It's too bad all he is doing is saying "Herm Edwards sucks, you guys have a bad coach" and not even putting any effort into it.

Here are at least a few bits of opinion from others regarding Herm's coaching abilities:

The clock-management issue:

http://web.archive.org/web/20041207232729/...s/story/7897891

(Nov. 17, 2004) -- If you don't live in New York, there's no way that you feel the pain and anguish of the New York Jets players, coaches and fans. The Jets, who have been known to mishandle game management and clock situations under Herman Edwards, committed another fatal error on Sunday in their overtime loss to the Ravens. Even if they did handle it properly and gave themselves another play to go for the end zone and win, there is nothing to say they could have pulled it off. Here's how the Jets handled the final 55 seconds of regulation trailing by three:

1. It's third-and-6 at the Baltimore 13-yard line with 55 second left in regulation and the clock is stopped. The Jets still have two timeouts left. Quarterback Quincy Carter runs nine yards to the Baltimore 4-yard line for a first down. The clock is at about 50 seconds and continues to run. This is where the Jets make their first mistake. With two timeouts left, Carter or the Jets coaches should have immediately called a timeout. They didn't and they let the clock run.

2. With first-and-goal at the 4-yard line and 18 seconds remaining, the Jets hand the football to LaMont Jordan, who gains one yard. The Jets immediately call timeout and stop the clock with 14 seconds left to play. After their timeout is enforced, the Ravens call timeout, giving the Jets even more time to discuss the possible scenarios that may unfold before them.

3. It is now second-and-goal from the 3-yard line. The Jets have one timeout left, which should allow them another opportunity to run the football if they would like. Carter attempts a pass that falls incomplete. Fine. I have no problem with that play call. The game clock stops. He goes back to the huddle and has trouble communicating the play to his teammates as the play clock continues to run. (After the game, Carter said the play came in late from the sidelines.) Head coach Herman Edwards sees this and feels that Carter has lost track of the play clock and decides to call his third and final timeout with the game clock already stopped. Many would say in this situation, just take the delay of game penalty and move back five yards because the timeout is more precious than where you are on the field. This is mistake No. 2, but not a mistake that is catastrophic because they can still attempt a pass to the end zone that, if it falls incomplete, will still allow enough time on the clock to kick the game-tying field goal.

4. With it third-and-goal from the 3-yard line, instead of attempting a final shot at victory with a pass play into the end zone, Edwards elects to kick the game-tying field goal. Mistake No. 3. Now it could be that this may have been the correct decision if Edwards sensed a feeling of panic on the sideline and in his quarterback's eyes and he was afraid that a mistake could have cost them the game right then and there. I can understand if Edwards felt this way; he ultimately decided to be conservative in his thinking to tie the game and take his chances in overtime.

In every close game, there are going to be situations where coaches will make decisions based on the variables they are presented with during that game and that game only such as: Who are we playing? Where are we playing them? What is the weather? How has my team been playing? Where is the momentum of the game at the present time? My point being that Edwards realized the failures of his staff and team to correctly manipulate the clock at the end of the game and therefore was forced into making a decision that was safe and sound to tie the game.

So what they should have done and been prepared to do is the following:

1. On Quincy Carter's run for a first down to the Baltimore 4-yard line with 50 seconds left in regulation, they should have called timeout immediately. I can understand taking more time off the clock if you are playing the Colts or the Chiefs -- teams with dynamic offenses that you don't want to leave time on the clock for them to strike back -- but you're playing the Ravens and their offense doesn't strike fear in anybody, plus they would be going against the wind in this case -- so call the timeout right there.

2. You now have first-and-goal from the Baltimore 4-yard line. One timeout left and three shots at the end zone. On first down, a run-pass option for Carter would have been a perfect play to call. If he's tackled inbounds, you can call timeout and still have more than enough time to attempt two passes in the end zone. If he throws an incomplete pass, the clock is stopped, there is one timeout remaining and you can actually run the football on second down if you would like.

3. On third down, and let's assume that you ran it on second down and didn't make it, you call the timeout and could quite possibly have close to 30 seconds left on the game clock. You could run or pass it. If you run it and don't make it, you'll still have more than enough time to run your field-goal team onto the field for the game-tying field goal with the clock running.

When I look at these final moments of the game, it's a shame that the Jets didn't take one more shot at the end zone because the perception that is associated with that failure is what is hurting Herman Edwards and his clock-management reputation. It is vital for coaching staffs to go through the mental gymnastics of preparing themselves for situations like this.

If the Jets had won, there would be minor talk about this situation, but since they lost and because of the recent failures they have had dealing with clock situations, this particular sequence of events has created a great deal of anxiety for the players and coaches. There was even one player in one of the local newspapers that didn't want to be identified who second-guessed his coach's decision-making process. I deplore the anonymous player for being so spineless and adding fuel to the fire.

The Jets have had many key occasions in their history. I was a part of the ill-fated "Spike Game" against the Miami Dolphins in 1994 in which they came back to beat us and sent the Jets organization into a 4-32 two-and-a-half year abyss. I know that Jets fans and their cynical nature are comparing last Sunday's end-of-game disaster to that Miami game. It is now time for Edwards to push these players past this latest debacle. He needs to ride his boys hard as they prepare for Cleveland this weekend. If he doesn't, last week could go down as one of those key moments that ruins what has been a very good Jets season.

Some blog criticizing Edwards:

http://community.foxsports.com/blogs/NJPho..._to_get_it_done

On Herm Edwards:

One of my favorite TV detective shows from years ago was “Colombo”. The lead character of the show-played perfectly by Peter Faulk got his information by letting his suspects talk. And talk, and talk, and talk and talk.

Week in and week out, the criminals talked themselves into their own demise.

That’s what is going on over at Kansas City, where the Chief’s new head coach is doing all the talking. I don’t want to be so hard on Herm that I don’t present his good qualities because he does posses many, I am just saying that he needs to get a lot better in these areas: clock management, conditioning, game preparation and media relations. I believe if given the chance that eventually he will be a terrific head coach. By “given the chance” I mean Kansas City is in for a lot of heartache over the next few seasons.

To get a glimpse of the confusion going on over in Kansas City we only have to listen to the head coach’s news conferences. Here are a few of his statements that are sure to cause confusion, and keep in mind that I am getting all of my information from the Chiefs web site.

About Training Camp Competition: Herm sated that there would be a competition at every position, that no position would be set going into training camp. Think Ty Law agrees with him?

About Arrowhead Stadium Fans: “We have to get the crowd excited, especially on third down” Excuse me? Is he talking about the fans at arrowhead stadium? It’s about time those sleepy heads woke up and actually got into a game.

About The Two-Minute drills: “We have to get better at the two-minute drills”. Take a look at Herm’s record for clock management-this is not someone who you would want working on that.

About the Championship Game: “If you are going to get into the championship game you have to get into the playoffs, last time I checked. They don’t let you in because you won a bunch of games.” Is he replacing BLEEP Vermeil or Yogi Berra?

About Conditioning: “I’m not the type of guy who wakes the players up at five in the morning and has them run before practice….if they want to do that, that’s fine.” Seriously, you folks in Kansas City never wondered how the New York media came up with such nicknames as “Club Ed”? Club Med, the famous vacation spa = Club Ed, the players resort/training camp.

On The Playbook: “I’m not going to ask the players to do something they can’t do”. Aw gee coach, this is too hard, can’t we do something else?

And now, they figure to solve their problems by bringing in Ty Law.

Now I'm sure this will all be explained away by KC loyalists, but at least it's more than "Herm sucks". That doesn't do the thread any justice.

 

[Routilla]

I don't have an opinion on Herm Edwards, but FarveCo apparently does. It's too bad all he is doing is saying "Herm Edwards sucks, you guys have a bad coach" and not even putting any effort into it.

Here are at least a few bits of opinion from others regarding Herm's coaching abilities:

The clock-management issue:

http://web.archive.org/web/20041207232729/...s/story/7897891

(Nov. 17, 2004) -- If you don't live in New York, there's no way that you feel the pain and anguish of the New York Jets players, coaches and fans. The Jets, who have been known to mishandle game management and clock situations under Herman Edwards, committed another fatal error on Sunday in their overtime loss to the Ravens. Even if they did handle it properly and gave themselves another play to go for the end zone and win, there is nothing to say they could have pulled it off. Here's how the Jets handled the final 55 seconds of regulation trailing by three:

1. It's third-and-6 at the Baltimore 13-yard line with 55 second left in regulation and the clock is stopped. The Jets still have two timeouts left. Quarterback Quincy Carter runs nine yards to the Baltimore 4-yard line for a first down. The clock is at about 50 seconds and continues to run. This is where the Jets make their first mistake. With two timeouts left, Carter or the Jets coaches should have immediately called a timeout. They didn't and they let the clock run.

2. With first-and-goal at the 4-yard line and 18 seconds remaining, the Jets hand the football to LaMont Jordan, who gains one yard. The Jets immediately call timeout and stop the clock with 14 seconds left to play. After their timeout is enforced, the Ravens call timeout, giving the Jets even more time to discuss the possible scenarios that may unfold before them.

3. It is now second-and-goal from the 3-yard line. The Jets have one timeout left, which should allow them another opportunity to run the football if they would like. Carter attempts a pass that falls incomplete. Fine. I have no problem with that play call. The game clock stops. He goes back to the huddle and has trouble communicating the play to his teammates as the play clock continues to run. (After the game, Carter said the play came in late from the sidelines.) Head coach Herman Edwards sees this and feels that Carter has lost track of the play clock and decides to call his third and final timeout with the game clock already stopped. Many would say in this situation, just take the delay of game penalty and move back five yards because the timeout is more precious than where you are on the field. This is mistake No. 2, but not a mistake that is catastrophic because they can still attempt a pass to the end zone that, if it falls incomplete, will still allow enough time on the clock to kick the game-tying field goal.

4. With it third-and-goal from the 3-yard line, instead of attempting a final shot at victory with a pass play into the end zone, Edwards elects to kick the game-tying field goal. Mistake No. 3. Now it could be that this may have been the correct decision if Edwards sensed a feeling of panic on the sideline and in his quarterback's eyes and he was afraid that a mistake could have cost them the game right then and there. I can understand if Edwards felt this way; he ultimately decided to be conservative in his thinking to tie the game and take his chances in overtime.

In every close game, there are going to be situations where coaches will make decisions based on the variables they are presented with during that game and that game only such as: Who are we playing? Where are we playing them? What is the weather? How has my team been playing? Where is the momentum of the game at the present time? My point being that Edwards realized the failures of his staff and team to correctly manipulate the clock at the end of the game and therefore was forced into making a decision that was safe and sound to tie the game.

So what they should have done and been prepared to do is the following:

1. On Quincy Carter's run for a first down to the Baltimore 4-yard line with 50 seconds left in regulation, they should have called timeout immediately. I can understand taking more time off the clock if you are playing the Colts or the Chiefs -- teams with dynamic offenses that you don't want to leave time on the clock for them to strike back -- but you're playing the Ravens and their offense doesn't strike fear in anybody, plus they would be going against the wind in this case -- so call the timeout right there.

2. You now have first-and-goal from the Baltimore 4-yard line. One timeout left and three shots at the end zone. On first down, a run-pass option for Carter would have been a perfect play to call. If he's tackled inbounds, you can call timeout and still have more than enough time to attempt two passes in the end zone. If he throws an incomplete pass, the clock is stopped, there is one timeout remaining and you can actually run the football on second down if you would like.

3. On third down, and let's assume that you ran it on second down and didn't make it, you call the timeout and could quite possibly have close to 30 seconds left on the game clock. You could run or pass it. If you run it and don't make it, you'll still have more than enough time to run your field-goal team onto the field for the game-tying field goal with the clock running.

When I look at these final moments of the game, it's a shame that the Jets didn't take one more shot at the end zone because the perception that is associated with that failure is what is hurting Herman Edwards and his clock-management reputation. It is vital for coaching staffs to go through the mental gymnastics of preparing themselves for situations like this.

I'm guessing the Ravens were not playing vanilla defense down in the red zone. Pretty much any play would have worked against their ball-hawking schemes right? And of course Quincy Carter was at QB so he should have easily been able to get them into the endzone against the weak Ravens D. November of 2004, nice analysis. Sure he could have called a timeout to preserve time. But I'm sure he didn't want to throw 3 incomplete passes and kick a FG only to leave BAL with a return and field position plus a timeout. It's not a great situation to be in. BAL is a defense not just looking to stop your play, they are looking for a turnover and a return off of that turnover. They have you down in close quarters so trick plays are not a threat. They thrive in those situations. A turnover ends the game, no overtime opportunity. Herm obviously didn't trust Quincy Carter to beat that defense through the air, I guess Jets fans would have preferred a sack and fumble recovery for BAL there, or maybe just a good old fashioned INT. Atleast they could say Herm was trying to win the game. Doesn't really matter. Most of these Herm hating posts are from chapped Jets fans anyways. Pray that KC and NYJ do not have a playoff game anytime soon. A KC win would result in an overload of the suicide hotline I'm sure. With Herm gone they would have to find a new scapegoat instead of just accepting the fact that you cannot always make the right decision as a head coach. I defer to Herm's 4 playoff trips in 6 years as a head coach and say he does pretty well. Hindsight is 20/20. Hell I can blame Romo as a Cowboys fan for last year's loss in SEA. The bottom line is if the players made more plays then it would not have come down to that. But why put anything on the players when you can just blame the coach, right?

 

[Kevin Ashcraft]

The Chiefs just haven't done all that well with their recent drafts. I think to a certain degree, it comes down to that.

HUH?????????????????????????????????2003 - 1st Larry Johnson -All-Pro2nd Kawika Mitchell Starter who left via UFA2004 - no 1st, 2nds who have been busts, but...4th Jared Allen - starter, borderline Pro-Bowler2005 - 1st Derrick Johnson - starter2nd traded for Surtain - legacy precedes him3rd - Dustin Colquitt, who led the AFC I believe in net punting AVG last season.5th - Boomer Grigsby, who will be the starting FB this season2006 - 1st Tamba Hali - starter, on some All-ROokie teams2nd Bernard Pollard - starting in 20073rd Brodie Croyle - potential starting QB this season.Now, if you are saying the drafts while Saunders' offense was in it's prime, then I will agree. The CHiefs were horrible drafters from 2000-2002, with the exception of trading for Trent Green and drafting Scott Fujita.But from 2003 onward, it was not been that bad.

 

[Kevin Ashcraft]

Another reason that KC is not as bad as many of you think......breaking news from the Kansas City Star

http://www.kansascity.com/news/breaking_ne...ory/191073.html

Suspension of Chiefs’ Allen reduced to two games

By ADAM TEICHER

The Kansas City Star

Jared Allen was planning to treat the first month of the Chiefs’ schedule as the offseason. He was going to head back to Arizona and work out with a trainer much as he did during the spring.

Allen, a starting defensive end, will have to rethink that strategy after learning that the NFL — after hearing his appeal — reduced his season-opening suspension from four games to two.

Allen will still miss the Sept. 9 season opener in Houston and the following Sunday’s game at Chicago. But he will now be available to play in the Sept. 23 home opener against Minnesota and, more important, the Chiefs’ first division game the following Sunday at San Diego.

“My whole approach has changed now,” Allen said. “With the whole four weeks, I was going to head back to Arizona and train as if I was in the offseason. Four weeks is quite a long time. Two weeks is a totally different game. Most likely I’ll just stay in Kansas City and stay ready to play.

“I’m excited about this. It changes training camp for me. It will change the way I approach preseason.”

The reason for the reduction wasn’t clear. Allen said he hasn’t read the letter he received from the NFL, which has yet to publicly announce his suspension. Chiefs officials were unavailable Sunday.

The suspension for violation of the NFL’s substance-abuse policy stems from Allen’s two DUI charges in Johnson County. He entered a diversion program in connection with the first charge and pleaded no contest to the second.

Allen will not be paid for the two games he misses.

 

[BoltBacker]

That's huge. Allen is a force and that defense just got better.

 

[veto87]

As far as LJ is concerned, 8 in the box is what he's used to. As far as LJ is concerned, he faces tough D's each year, because of the division he's in. As far as KC is concerned, LJ is their only way to stay in games. Is anyone questioning that he'll drop down from 457 touches down to under 350? If you think he will get 350+ touches, there is no reason for him to drop any lower than the 3rd pick in redraft leagues. Anyone doing so is predicting injury.

Exactly, last time i checked Gonzo was the only decent receiving option on the team... Kennison won't win you any championships. When you face KC you think of LJ , When yo face SD you think Tomlinson ( or Gates) . either of those teams is RB based for their offense.

 

[Despyzer]

But of course. you are not biased in any way shape or form.

I just noticed what has to be one of the great pieces of irony on this forum. KA giving someone crap about being biased.

 

[veto87]

http://www.chiefswarroom.net/kcwarroom/2000sdraft.shtml

The 1996 Kansas City Chiefs Draft:

Rnd Pick Ovrall Name College Pos

1 28 28 Jerome Woods Memphis DB

2 28 58 Reggie Tongue Oregon State DB

3 7 68 John Browning West Virginia DE

4 3 98 Donnie Edwards UCLA LB

5 3 135 Joe Horn Itawamba C.C. WR6 9 176 Dietrich Jells Pittsburgh WR

6 32 199 Philip Riley Florida State WR

7 2 211 Ben Lynch California C

7 32 241 Jeff Smith Tennessee C

7 36 245 Darrell Williams Tennessee State DB

not a bad draft year

 

[Kevin Ashcraft]

Herm Edwards or not, if you don't have the talent, you can't win.

There are a few gems in those drafts. And I think it's fair to say the jury is still out to some degree for the last couple of draft classes, but this team is just not developing its own players very well.

There was this long period in KC where it became a halfway house for old 49er QBs, then there was a peak period with Green/Holmes/Gonzo/Kennison/Hall. And out of that core, Gonzo and Hall were the only in house drafted and developed players. And to be fair, they were not core players like QBs or DEs.

At some point, Carl Peterson is going to have to bite the bullet, trade up in some draft and actually get a franchise QB.

You do not know the history of the Chiefs very well.KC has NEVER drafted and developed a QB, at least not successfully.

Here is a list I posted in This thread back in May

People outside of KC, unless they are research hounds, have no idea about how KC rolls from the QB position historically. Technically, Blackledge started after Fuller did but both were equally horrid 1st round busts.

Let's face facts, KC has been very good about finding QBs either coming off their rookie contracts, or trading/signing good veteran QBs. Look at the QBs they have plucked thru trades/FA

Len Dawson

Bill Kenney

Steve Deberg

David Kreig

Joe Montana

Steve Bono

Elvis Grbac

Rich Gannon

Trent Green

Damon Huard

The drafted ones.....since 1978 5th round and above

Blackledge 1983 1st

Steve Fuller 1979 1st

Matt Blundin 1993 2nd

Mike Elkins 1989 2nd

Steve Stenstrom 1995 4th

Pat Barnes 1997 4th

Pete Woods 1978 4th

Doug Hudson 1987 5th

Mike Livingston 1968 2nd

That list goes back to the late 1960s....Mike Livingston is the most "successful" of that 2nd list and here is his career stats
| Year TM | G | Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT | Att Yards TD |+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+| 1968 kan | 1 | 0 0 0.0 0 0.0 0 0 | 2 2 0 || 1969 kan | 9 | 84 161 52.2 1123 7.0 4 6 | 15 102 0 || 1970 kan | 4 | 11 22 50.0 122 5.5 0 1 | 3 26 0 || 1971 kan | 3 | 12 28 42.9 130 4.6 0 0 | 5 11 0 || 1972 kan | 5 | 41 78 52.6 480 6.2 7 8 | 14 133 0 || 1973 kan | 8 | 75 145 51.7 916 6.3 6 7 | 19 94 2 || 1974 kan | 8 | 66 141 46.8 732 5.2 4 10 | 9 28 0 || 1975 kan | 7 | 88 176 50.0 1245 7.1 8 6 | 13 68 1 || 1976 kan | 14 | 189 338 55.9 2682 7.9 12 13 | 31 89 2 || 1977 kan | 13 | 143 282 50.7 1823 6.5 9 15 | 19 78 1 || 1978 kan | 14 | 159 290 54.8 1573 5.4 5 13 | 23 49 1 || 1979 kan | 5 | 44 90 48.9 469 5.2 1 4 | 3 2 0 |+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+| TOTAL | 91 | 912 1751 52.1 11295 6.5 56 83 | 156 682 7 |The Chiefs have ALWAYS been more successful with a guy they di not draft....40+ years is enough evidence I would think for ANYONE to see that.This is the exact reason, I and most KC fans, want Huard as the starter. We let Rich Gannon get away at the exact same age. He and Huard have very similar career paths

 

[Kevin Ashcraft]

Too bad the Chiefs can't or won't do the same. I'm waiting for Al Davis to die so the Raiders have half a chance one day. Maybe some of you Chiefs fans hope his charter plane smashes into Petersons....

Your posts now make more sense....

 

[Kevin Ashcraft]

KC has NEVER drafted and developed a QB, at least not successfully.Len DawsonBill KenneySteve DebergDavid KreigJoe MontanaSteve BonoElvis GrbacRich GannonTrent GreenDamon HuardThe drafted ones.....since 1978 5th round and aboveBlackledge 1983 1stSteve Fuller 1979 1stMatt Blundin 1993 2ndMike Elkins 1989 2ndSteve Stenstrom 1995 4thPat Barnes 1997 4thPete Woods 1978 4thDoug Hudson 1987 5thMike Livingston 1968 2nd

Your homerism blinds you. KC doesn't take any chances at all at QB. You don't get anywhere by "playing not to lose" They take retread after retread. That's plenty of history to me. They haven't used a 1st on a QB (let's not count the Montana trade here) in what? THREE DECADES?QB is the one position where you roll the dice and you sometimes fail, but you don't stop rolling the dice. If the Bengals thought the same way as you, Carson Palmer would be somewhere else. And the Bengals had horrible draft after horrible draft for years. I'm sure the bitter taste of Butch Davis and Tim Couch doesn't sit well for the Browns. But did that stop them from trying to get a franchise QB this year in Quinn? He might bust too, but you don't see these teams roll over and play dead because they took a risk and the player busted. If you have an elite QB, you can set your team up for success for maybe 10-15 years if you are lucky. Sure it's not easy to find one, but you don't stop looking for one. It's the one position in the NFL where you have to be able to roll the dice and accept the potential carnage that comes with it. I'd rather swing hard and miss than not swing at all.

From 62-73 and 89-06,, KC has one of the top winning percentages of all NFL teams.

 

[Banger]

From 62-73 and 89-06,, KC has one of the top winning percentages of all NFL teams.

I've been following this thread and other KC related ones this offseason and I have to give you credit for your optimism (which I tend not to agree with). One thing though, you keep throwing up the winning %'s from the past as if that is a future indicator and to me it's totally irrelevant and meaningless. Each season each team starts out 0-0 and it doesn't matter if that franchise went undefeated for 32 consecutive years that would have no bearing whatsoever on this year. Just because it hasn't happened in the past doesn't mean it won't happen in the future. Even the best franchises have down years.

 

[Reaper]

Most of these Herm hating posts are from chapped Jets fans anyways. Pray that KC and NYJ do not have a playoff game anytime soon. A KC win would result in an overload of the suicide hotline I'm sure. With Herm gone they would have to find a new scapegoat instead of just accepting the fact that you cannot always make the right decision as a head coach.

Not at all... The Favorite for 'That game' will mostly depend on what talent is on the team, injuries etc. We'll see, they do play eachother towards the end of the year - But, going into last year the Jets were a rebuilding team and KC was supposed to be quite a bit better.In the end Coaches can be analyzed on their game plan, being prepared and in game decisions.....Herm is a Fire em up, Line em up type of coach and not a lifer who eats and Breathes football like a Bellichik...... Herm has been quoted where he says stuff like " I don't care what the other team does, if WE execute we will succeed".... I think there's more to it than that, like executing a PLAN based on the opponent and making changes.Obviously his stats and W/L record looks pretty decent so far..... And given the talent, I don't doubt anyone can Win it all.. But, Herm isn't going to out coach, outgame plan or make the right halftime adjustments (if any) more often than not over most NFL coaches.....I believe that in the end most KC fans will dislike Herm, not as a man, cuz he seems like a great individual, but, more for not being a Great Mind of the Game.I think he was underqualified to be a head coach from the start and just had friends in the right places... Hey I like KC - and I think Herm is a great guy... GOOD LUCK

 

[Despyzer]

From 62-73 and 89-06,, KC has one of the top winning percentages of all NFL teams.

And yet for all that they have no Super Bowl appearances since 1969 and only one AFC championship appearance in that same amount of time. Congratulations.

 

[Kevin Ashcraft]

From 62-73 and 89-06,, KC has one of the top winning percentages of all NFL teams.

And yet for all that they have no Super Bowl appearances since 1969 and only one AFC championship appearance in that same amount of time. Congratulations.

Thank you, Smart guy

 

[joffer]

i thought the point of the thread wasn't that they were going to go 13-3, it's that they weren't going to go 3-13

 

[jurrassic]

i thought the point of the thread wasn't that they were going to go 13-3, it's that they weren't going to go 3-13

This was the point of the thread, to basically state that people are assuming KC is going to turn into Oakland. That is not going to happen. Say what you want about KC making the playoffs, but they did. This team is not substantially worse from last year. They will be competitive and LJ will get this. That is the point of the thread.

 

[Warpig]

Kevin has his blinders on and isn't very coherent right now.

I guess one could argue that KC is getting back to its roots from the early to mid 90's. Where they had a good defense that kept them in the game and a mediocre ball control (that would be LJ) offense that wears the opposing defense down.

The Chiefs defense will be another notch better this year. The only area of concern for me is the CB spot. It's also good news that Jared Allen's suspension was cut in half to 2 games instead of 4. If the D-line can contribute in run support and putting pressure on the QB up the middle, the DE's in Allen and Hali will have a great season...and let's not forget about Derrick Johnson, Nap Harris, Donnie Edwards! That is a formidable LB corps. Donnie is also excellent in pass coverage.

All Croyle has to do is be Trent Dilfer. JUST DON'T LOSE IT FOR THEM. The O-line is also the obvious area of concern. A bunch of cast offs and under achievers. Nothing like a Roaf, Waters, Shields, Grunhard O-line. But people also thought that San Diego had one of the worst O-lines a few years ago and they all turned out pretty damn good and LT continues to terrorize other defenses.

Between TG, LJ, and even Kennison commanding attention they still have the pieces in place to make one more run at a playoff spot.

I'd like their chances more if they started Huard since he offers more veteran leadership and more mobility. But I see them taking a small step backwards instead of forwards.

That is why I have them going 7-9, 8-8 at best.

 

[Reaper]

i thought the point of the thread wasn't that they were going to go 13-3, it's that they weren't going to go 3-13

This was the point of the thread, to basically state that people are assuming KC is going to turn into Oakland. That is not going to happen. Say what you want about KC making the playoffs, but they did. This team is not substantially worse from last year. They will be competitive and LJ will get this. That is the point of the thread.

I never saw predictions of 3-13 - I actually think Herm is such a great motivator that his teams would only do that with a lot of injuries.... The problem is one of his teams going over the top and that's what it's all about.... His teams will always be "competitive". So, no, the Chiefs won't be "Worst team in the league" horrible...They will be what Herm's teams have been - a Middle of the road team looking to squeak into one of the last playoff spots and possibly win a playoff game.

 

[Despyzer]

From 62-73 and 89-06,, KC has one of the top winning percentages of all NFL teams.

And yet for all that they have no Super Bowl appearances since 1969 and only one AFC championship appearance in that same amount of time. Congratulations.

Thank you, Smart guy

You're welcome. I hope you realize that some of the most pathetic franchises in the league have equaled or bested Kansas City in Super Bowl and conference championships in the last 25+ years.

 

[BigRed]

KC plays not to lose with its QBs and draft picks. That's why they aren't a very good team right now and will probably struggle this year. Count what you like, I count rings.

This may come as a shock to a few of you, but most of us here in this FANTASY FOOTBALL forum could give a flip about rings/wins/etc blah etc because they count for zero pts in most FF scoring systems. Can we get past the history of the Chief or NFL or whatever now and maybe discuss how good KC will or won't be THIS year, and from an FF standpoint?

 

[duaneok66]

....and they got better.

You keep saying this, but you have yet to base this on anything at all. How have they improved so dramatically?

Not dramatic improvement, but improvement nonetheless. Starting with the offense, this year listed first

LT Mcintosh > Black Admittingly I haven't seen Mcintosh play really, but I have seen enough of Black to state that he very well may have been the worst starter on ANY team at ANY position last year. If Mcintosh is even a mediocre LT, this is a fairly big upgrade. Advantage this year.

a great example of faulty logic . . .

 

[Despyzer]

This may come as a shock to a few of you, but most of us here in this FANTASY FOOTBALL forum could give a flip about rings/wins/etc blah etc because they count for zero pts in most FF scoring systems. Can we get past the history of the Chief or NFL or whatever now and maybe discuss how good KC will or won't be THIS year, and from an FF standpoint?

Take a look at the title of this forum, bub.

 

[JCrusher]

KC plays not to lose with its QBs and draft picks. That's why they aren't a very good team right now and will probably struggle this year. Count what you like, I count rings.

This may come as a shock to a few of you, but most of us here in this FANTASY FOOTBALL forum could give a flip about rings/wins/etc blah etc because they count for zero pts in most FF scoring systems. Can we get past the history of the Chief or NFL or whatever now and maybe discuss how good KC will or won't be THIS year, and from an FF standpoint?

I'm with ya on that.................enough already....geezzzz!

 

[phthalatemagic]

....and they got better.

You keep saying this, but you have yet to base this on anything at all. How have they improved so dramatically?

Not dramatic improvement, but improvement nonetheless. Starting with the offense, this year listed first

LT Mcintosh > Black Admittingly I haven't seen Mcintosh play really, but I have seen enough of Black to state that he very well may have been the worst starter on ANY team at ANY position last year. If Mcintosh is even a mediocre LT, this is a fairly big upgrade. Advantage this year.

a great example of faulty logic . . .

Give up man. :X You can only say something so many times. They choose to not know about McIntosh. They will soon see for themselves the reality.

 

[Gr00vus]

Can we get past the history of the Chief or NFL or whatever now and maybe discuss how good KC will or won't be THIS year, and from an FF standpoint?

Is something keeping you from starting a thread of your own if this one isn't doing it for you?Personally I prefer threads like this to another discussion of Reggie Bush, I find these kinds of threads more informative and insightful. FF stats and performances don't happen in a vacuum and threads like these give great context which is powerful information when thinking about individuals. But to each his own.

 

[winwithike]

....and they got better.

You keep saying this, but you have yet to base this on anything at all. How have they improved so dramatically?

Not dramatic improvement, but improvement nonetheless. Starting with the offense, this year listed first

LT Mcintosh > Black Admittingly I haven't seen Mcintosh play really, but I have seen enough of Black to state that he very well may have been the worst starter on ANY team at ANY position last year. If Mcintosh is even a mediocre LT, this is a fairly big upgrade. Advantage this year.

a great example of faulty logic . . .

Eh, sure I admitted I hadn't seen much of Mcintosh's play, so maybe I shouldn't have appointed Black as one of the worst starters on ANY team last year. That said, Black led the league in sacks allowed last year despite being on a run first, run second, run 3rd, short passes 4th, THEN shots down field team. If he led the league in sacks allowed on a team that doesn't pass unless it has to, I assume he also leads the league in sacks allowed per pass attempt which would make him statistically the worst pass blocking OT in the league. Mcintosh, from what I understand, is a good run blocker and its tough to get worse than last place statistically vs the pass, so I don't see how this can't be an upgrade. All I said was all Mcintosh had to do was be mediore or servicable and he is an upgrade, I'll admit that I am ASSUMING he can come in and be atleast that.