The Steelers are 3rd best (1 Viewer)

[pfalvey]

My only knock on Roeth is that in games where he's asked to throw 30 times or more, his career record is 3-10. Not good. He's been pretty dependent on the running game. He's 1-0 in the playoffs throwing 30 or more times. Didnt have to do it once during the Superbowl run. Those other guys average more than 30 throws a game. Favre doesnt even have a running game. So, he still has some work to do. But still a great QB.

Thats a good stat. The Steelers are a running team though and when Bens been forced to through more we have been loseing so it's more likely that he'd have a loseing record. As a Steeler fan though I would like him to get that stat up a little more.

In all my years of following the NFL, I don't ever remember the number of pass attempts be used as a sign of weakness against any other QB like it has with Ben. Certainly not to the extent it has with Ben. Just because the Steelers had a dominating run game Ben's 1st 2 years doesn't mean he couldn't have done more as a QB if asked to. I don't see anyone using this argument with other players, Vince Young being one of them. Not only is Young usually asked to throw less than 25 times, he's done less with those attempts than Ben in his 1st 2 years. I'm not knocking Young, I'm just sayin' the argument generally never even enters the discussion with other QB's. Now that Ben has finally been asked to do more and has had real success (on pace for 40 TD's), probably the same people are just shrugging it off and saying any NFL QB would be putting up similar numbers in Pittsburgh's offense. I just don't understand some of the logic people have used to evaluate Ben as a QB.As for Ben's yards per attempt, I believe Ben is one of, if not THE leader in yards per attempt since he has entered the league. Unfortunatly, I read that info a couple months ago and I don't have the link to where I got that info so I can't pass it along. However, that's just another example of Ben being the gunslinger and NOT the conservative, game managing QB most seem to think he is.

 

[Frawfog]

My only knock on Roeth is that in games where he's asked to throw 30 times or more, his career record is 3-10. Not good. He's been pretty dependent on the running game. He's 1-0 in the playoffs throwing 30 or more times. Didnt have to do it once during the Superbowl run. Those other guys average more than 30 throws a game. Favre doesnt even have a running game. So, he still has some work to do. But still a great QB.

Thats a good stat. The Steelers are a running team though and when Bens been forced to through more we have been loseing so it's more likely that he'd have a loseing record. As a Steeler fan though I would like him to get that stat up a little more.

In all my years of following the NFL, I don't ever remember the number of pass attempts be used as a sign of weakness against any other QB like it has with Ben.

When you get sacked on 18% of your pass attempts, its a problem. He's getting hit a ton.

 

[pfalvey]

My only knock on Roeth is that in games where he's asked to throw 30 times or more, his career record is 3-10. Not good. He's been pretty dependent on the running game. He's 1-0 in the playoffs throwing 30 or more times. Didnt have to do it once during the Superbowl run. Those other guys average more than 30 throws a game. Favre doesnt even have a running game. So, he still has some work to do. But still a great QB.

Thats a good stat. The Steelers are a running team though and when Bens been forced to through more we have been loseing so it's more likely that he'd have a loseing record. As a Steeler fan though I would like him to get that stat up a little more.

In all my years of following the NFL, I don't ever remember the number of pass attempts be used as a sign of weakness against any other QB like it has with Ben.

When you get sacked on 18% of your pass attempts, its a problem. He's getting hit a ton.

I'm commenting on people using the "Ben isn't asked to throw alot" argument to evaluate Ben as nothing more than a game-manager type QB when that just isn't the case. I wasn't referring to his sack rate or anything, though I do agree 18% is very high, espescially considering Ben's talents for escaping the sack.

 

[switz]

Only concern with the Steelers is that Roethlisberger threw 16 passes, yet got sacked 3 times, was pressured several other times, and even left the game with an injury briefly. You'd think when you're leading by that much the protection would be better but they've been near the bottom of the league in adjusted sack rate and they'll have to work on it. A few teams have had success rushing 4 and getting good pressure.

16 passes, and people want to say he's amazing.

5 TDs out of 16 passes thrown IS pretty amazing. You think Young means more to his team than Roethlisberger does to his yet Young has only accounted for 33% of his teams TDs and Roethlisberger accounted for 74% of his team's TDs. Care to explain your rationale?

The Baltimore secondary was out for that game. How has he done in the other games?

 

[5-ish Finkle]

He is doing what it takes to win, on a great team. But I don't think they're winning because of him. Whereas the other teams are winning because of their QB.

You're on glue.

 

[apalmer]

Only concern with the Steelers is that Roethlisberger threw 16 passes, yet got sacked 3 times, was pressured several other times, and even left the game with an injury briefly. You'd think when you're leading by that much the protection would be better but they've been near the bottom of the league in adjusted sack rate and they'll have to work on it. A few teams have had success rushing 4 and getting good pressure.

16 passes, and people want to say he's amazing.

5 TDs out of 16 passes thrown IS pretty amazing. You think Young means more to his team than Roethlisberger does to his yet Young has only accounted for 33% of his teams TDs and Roethlisberger accounted for 74% of his team's TDs. Care to explain your rationale?

The Baltimore secondary was out for that game. How has he done in the other games?

Subtract out the Baltimore stats and he's accounted for 68% of their TD's. Jus for comparison, Peyton has accounted for 61% of Indy's.

 

[apalmer]

My only knock on Roeth is that in games where he's asked to throw 30 times or more, his career record is 3-10. Not good. He's been pretty dependent on the running game. He's 1-0 in the playoffs throwing 30 or more times. Didnt have to do it once during the Superbowl run. Those other guys average more than 30 throws a game. Favre doesnt even have a running game. So, he still has some work to do. But still a great QB.

Unless your name is Tom Brady, you don't pass a lot when you're protecting a lead. You do pass a lot when you're behind and trying to catch up. That stat is almost as valuable as "Team A is 30-1 when X rushes for 100 yards or more." Ben has thrown 129 first half passes and only 79 second half passes. FWIW, though, on pass attempts this year after his 30th attempt in a game he's 9/11 with 2 TD's 1 Int. and a passer rating of 111.2. Maybe the Steelers need to play more like the Pats.

 

[Steeler]

Here's another interesting stat. Brady, Favre and Manning are a combined 17-1 this year throwing more than 30 times a game. Roeth is 1-2.

I don't think it's legitimate to make this comparisson because Pittsburgh's gameplan is far different than Indy or NE (you'll probably make that out to be a negative thing against Ben, but whatever). The Steelers generally pass that frequently only when they are behind, so it's not that surprising to me that their record would be poor when forced out of their gameplan.But in the two loses this year, Ben actually played pretty well while in trying to bring the Steelers from behind. Going from memory; against ARI, Ben scored a 4th quarter TD to bring them within one TD. Then against DEN, Ben led the Steelers to two 4th quarter TDs to tie the game with about a minute left. So even in these two loses, Ben did a good job of keeping the Steelers in the game... those loses weren't necessarily his fault.Finally, what's so magical about 30 pass attempts? Seems like you are trying to find a stat to support a preconceived idea. Now, I'm not even trying to persuade you to move Ben up your personal QB rankings, I'm just saying this stat is meaningless in ranking QBs IMO

 

[BelichicksRevenge]

I don't think Big Ben is the the #3 QB. I would take Brady, Manning, Favre and Romo over him. Favre and Romo are more heavily relied upon than Big Ben to win games and this year they have made the big plays when needed.

I do agree that Pittsburgh is the 3rd best team and think they have a chance to beat NE or Indy. I would'nt pick them to beat either of those two teams but with their defense they have a shot.

 

[The Ref]

As a Pats fan, I see the Steelers as the largest hurdle to an undefeated season. Obviously I am biased and don't see the Steelers beating the Patriots, but I do think they are the most capable team left on the schedule by a wide margin.

 

[switz]

Here's another interesting stat. Brady, Favre and Manning are a combined 17-1 this year throwing more than 30 times a game. Roeth is 1-2.

I don't think it's legitimate to make this comparisson because Pittsburgh's gameplan is far different than Indy or NE (you'll probably make that out to be a negative thing against Ben, but whatever). The Steelers generally pass that frequently only when they are behind, so it's not that surprising to me that their record would be poor when forced out of their gameplan.

Isn't that what makes a great QB? The come from behind wins? If Ben is only relied upon to do that, and you're saying he can't... then why are we arguing he's the third best QB in the league?

 

[Godsbrother]

As a Pats fan, I see the Steelers as the largest hurdle to an undefeated season. Obviously I am biased and don't see the Steelers beating the Patriots, but I do think they are the most capable team left on the schedule by a wide margin.

The Steelers probably are the largest hurdle but beating the Patriots on their home turf is going to really, really tough. If Baltimore gets healthy their defense could pose a little bit of a challenge but they are complete crap on the other side of the ball so I think it would take a complete meltdown on the Pats part for the Ravens to win.I think the Giants might have a shot since they'll be playing at home and will likely need the win for the playoffs while the Pats may be tempted to rest some players. On the other hand Belichick will likely not be showing any mercy if the undefeated season record is on the line.

 

[Steeler]

Here's another interesting stat. Brady, Favre and Manning are a combined 17-1 this year throwing more than 30 times a game. Roeth is 1-2.

I don't think it's legitimate to make this comparisson because Pittsburgh's gameplan is far different than Indy or NE (you'll probably make that out to be a negative thing against Ben, but whatever). The Steelers generally pass that frequently only when they are behind, so it's not that surprising to me that their record would be poor when forced out of their gameplan.

Isn't that what makes a great QB? The come from behind wins? If Ben is only relied upon to do that, and you're saying he can't... then why are we arguing he's the third best QB in the league?

Nice misrepresentation of what I said. I'm not saying he can't bring the Steelers from behind, in fact I said the exact opposite in the next paragraph (that Ben played well in their two loses this year while trying to bring the Steelers from behind). Unfortunately, the Steelers still lost those games despite how Ben played in the 4th quarter. I'm sure in your crazy mind, those sentences are the equivalent of me admitting Ben cannot, never has, and never will bring the Steelers from behind, but whatever.And I don't care where you rank him; I'm just saying this arbitrary 30 passes stat is not meaningful in any QB rankings.

 

[Godsbrother]

Here's another interesting stat. Brady, Favre and Manning are a combined 17-1 this year throwing more than 30 times a game. Roeth is 1-2.

I don't think it's legitimate to make this comparisson because Pittsburgh's gameplan is far different than Indy or NE (you'll probably make that out to be a negative thing against Ben, but whatever). The Steelers generally pass that frequently only when they are behind, so it's not that surprising to me that their record would be poor when forced out of their gameplan.

Isn't that what makes a great QB? The come from behind wins? If Ben is only relied upon to do that, and you're saying he can't... then why are we arguing he's the third best QB in the league?

Where did he say he can't win from behind? He's had plenty of come-from-behind wins but there is no point continuing this discussion. You obviously don't think much of him as QB and you are entitled to that opinion.I think he is pretty good...

 

[bryhamm]

Here's another interesting stat. Brady, Favre and Manning are a combined 17-1 this year throwing more than 30 times a game. Roeth is 1-2.

I don't think it's legitimate to make this comparisson because Pittsburgh's gameplan is far different than Indy or NE (you'll probably make that out to be a negative thing against Ben, but whatever). The Steelers generally pass that frequently only when they are behind, so it's not that surprising to me that their record would be poor when forced out of their gameplan.

Isn't that what makes a great QB? The come from behind wins? If Ben is only relied upon to do that, and you're saying he can't... then why are we arguing he's the third best QB in the league?

By your logic a QB that gets out to a big lead because he dominates and never has to come from behind must not be a great QB. I guess Brady sucks this year then, huh?

 

[switz]

Here's another interesting stat. Brady, Favre and Manning are a combined 17-1 this year throwing more than 30 times a game. Roeth is 1-2.

I don't think it's legitimate to make this comparisson because Pittsburgh's gameplan is far different than Indy or NE (you'll probably make that out to be a negative thing against Ben, but whatever). The Steelers generally pass that frequently only when they are behind, so it's not that surprising to me that their record would be poor when forced out of their gameplan.

Isn't that what makes a great QB? The come from behind wins? If Ben is only relied upon to do that, and you're saying he can't... then why are we arguing he's the third best QB in the league?

By your logic a QB that gets out to a big lead because he dominates and never has to come from behind must not be a great QB. I guess Brady sucks this year then, huh?

Nope, that's not "by my logic." A QB that can come form behind also has the skill to get a big lead. But QBs play the biggest role in come from behind wins, and if a QB can't do that, then there is no way he's "tops" in the league. Granted that's relative to the lead as well, but in most cases, and as we've already seen this year, good QBs can overcome a rather large scoring deficit.Brady has, Romo has, Manning has, Favre has, throw in the great QBs from the past too... Montana, Elway, Kelly, etc.

Ben's not a bad QB, but he's not top-3 in the league, not even in the AFC, period.

 

[fred_1_15301]

Here's another interesting stat. Brady, Favre and Manning are a combined 17-1 this year throwing more than 30 times a game. Roeth is 1-2.

I don't think it's legitimate to make this comparisson because Pittsburgh's gameplan is far different than Indy or NE (you'll probably make that out to be a negative thing against Ben, but whatever). The Steelers generally pass that frequently only when they are behind, so it's not that surprising to me that their record would be poor when forced out of their gameplan.

Isn't that what makes a great QB? The come from behind wins? If Ben is only relied upon to do that, and you're saying he can't... then why are we arguing he's the third best QB in the league?

By your logic a QB that gets out to a big lead because he dominates and never has to come from behind must not be a great QB. I guess Brady sucks this year then, huh?

Nope, that's not "by my logic." A QB that can come form behind also has the skill to get a big lead. But QBs play the biggest role in come from behind wins, and if a QB can't do that, then there is no way he's "tops" in the league. Granted that's relative to the lead as well, but in most cases, and as we've already seen this year, good QBs can overcome a rather large scoring deficit.Brady has, Romo has, Manning has, Favre has, throw in the great QBs from the past too... Montana, Elway, Kelly, etc.

Ben's not a bad QB, but he's not top-3 in the league, not even in the AFC, period.

Did you even read the guy's post? He said that Ben did a good job of bringing the team back in their 2 losses. I love how you leave that part of the quote. Unfortunately Ben wasn't able to play on defense during those 2 games....

 

[Steeler]

Ben's not a bad QB, but he's not top-3 in the league, not even in the AFC, period.

I guess the debate is over now